Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by irishlass78 »

Here's a link to the 1910 Anaconda city directory opened to "Sullivan" listings. The Bridget Sullivan listed at 510 Main works for Judge Winston. John M. Sullivan (and Bridget) are living at 412 Monroe.

https://archive.org/stream/polkanaconda ... 9/mode/2up
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Radin has Bridget as the sole perpetrator, yes?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I don't believe either of these women is the Borden's maid Bridget Sullivan. I believe that they are two different men. A John M. Sullivan died in 1939. Bridget suffered from senility nine years later in 1948. She would have suffered from senility for almost ten years. Three of which she lived on her own until 1942. Giving information for the 1940 census where she lived alone. She was senile enough in 1939 to forget her husband's parent's names, but three years later in March of 1942 she is of sound mind and sharp as a tack making out her will. Even to the point of intentionally disinheriting relatives. This doesn't wash.
Last edited by KGDevil on Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:
No apologies!! There is so much detail and information on these forums. I overlook so much myself or simply forget what I've read.
No I've really goofed trying to struggle through this without re-reading November. You see, that was when I joined, & I've been totally focused on something else ever since. Hadn't begun on Bridget yet.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by InterestedReader » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:55 pm

Radin has Bridget as the sole perpetrator, yes?
Yep. Apparently, Radin believed Bridget snapped when Abby had her wash windows that day.

Personally, I think Lizzie was the sole perpetrator.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by KGDevil » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:58 pm

I don't believe either of these women is the Borden's maid Bridget Sullivan. I believe that they are two different men. John M. Sullivan died in 1939. Bridget suffered from senility nine years later in 1948. She would have suffered from senility for almost ten years. Three of which she lived on her own until 1942. Giving information for the 1940 census where she lived alone. She was senile enough in 1939 to forget her husbands parents names, but three years in March of 1942 she is of sound mind and sharp as a tack making out her will. Even to the point of intentionally disinheriting relatives. This doesn't wash.
Nope. Doesn't wash. I agree, KG.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:... three years in March of 1942 she is of sound mind and sharp as a tack making out her will. Even to the point of intentionally disinheriting relatives.
Is it often done to specify you're omitting people? Or unusually spiteful?
Last edited by InterestedReader on Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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It's a really strange idea to think that Bridget snapped and murdered them over washing windows on a hot day. If only the Kelly's maid next door had murdered her employers for being asked to wash their windows on that same day we'd have definitive proof that was a proper motive. Maybe that's what they talked about over the fence that day.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:It's a really strange idea to think that Bridget snapped and murdered them over washing windows on a hot day. If only the Kelly's maid next door had murdered her employers for being asked to wash their windows on that same day we'd have definitive proof that was a proper motive. Maybe that's what they talked about over the fence that day.

Very possibly. I opened one book at random which began with this. As soon as news of the murders spread through the district almost the entire workforce in the mills went on strike. Tensions were so high about the exploitative use of labour, they just walked out en masse once they heard of slaughtered Bordens.

I've read a lot of this Forum and never yet seen this mentioned.
It was a book about working-conditions in Massachusetts at the time.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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And none if proves she was the Borden Bridget.

Sullivans, Sullivans, Sullivans. You've never seen such a biblical horde of one name in one spot. Or two. Silver Bow and Butte. It would be astonishing if she didn't have a relative there.

You're now convinced it's not her aren't you, Irish?
I'm more convinced than ever, Wendy.

What caused me to doubt wasn't just the discrepancies, but that 1900 census showing a Bridget Sullivan working for Milton Reed in Fall River. The dates are consistent with what we know of the Borden Bridget. We also know that Bridget had previously worked for the Reed family prior to working for the Bordens. Is it just a coincidence?

Then there were clues in the newspaper articles I posted: (Please forgive me for reposting!)
I've been doing some research via newspaper articles and found a few intriguing clues about what may have happened to Bridget following the murders. If the following snippets have some basis in fact, then maybe Bridget never went to Montana and may have died in or around Fall River prior to 1929. I'm not stating this as fact, but simply as an alternative possibility.

The Philadelphia Record - December 3, 1899

"Old Crime Resurrected. Detective Offers to Find The Borden Murderer. Renews His Tender of Five Years Ago to The Girl Once Suspected of The Felony."
Special to "The Record"

Fall River, Mass. Dec. 2. - The Borden murder has been brought to light again by the offer of the New York detective, Harry Simons, to prove the guilt of the Bordens' servant girl's lover in connection with the double tragedy. 

Six years ago Lizzie Borden was tried at Taunton and acquitted of the murder of her father and mother, but so many of her friends believed her guilty that she was not wholly restored to her former society standing. She inherited about 175,000, and has invested this so well she is amply able to prosecute any search if she is so disposed that will reveal the murderer. 

SECOND ATTEMPT TO PROVE GUILT
A year after the trial this same man offered for a large consideration to prove the guilt of a man who was a friend of Bridget Sullivan. The latter went to Ireland but has returned to Taunton and is living there. 

The story goes that she was to be joined in Ireland by her lover. During the trial there was no suspicion of a man around the house because it was proved impossible for one to have been there. More than that, the servant and her lover would have gained nothing by the death of the husband and wife, so that a motive for the crime is not offered them. 

On November 12, 1925, the Boston Daily Globe published an article entitled "Bulk of Estate to Housekeeper. Bridget E. Sullivan Rewarded for Faithful Services."
Taunton, Nov. 12. Mary A. Short, Fall RIver, has named Bridget E. Sullivan, Fall River, residual legatee under the terms of the will of Mrs. Short, which has been filed in Probate court in this city, as a reward for the faithful service of the Sullivan woman as nurse and housekeeper. No estimate of the estate is given, but Mrs. Short is reported to have been a woman of considerable means.
The article goes on to list other beneficiaries, among them, an antique mirror to Milton Read. This Bridget Sullivan inherited all other furniture, investments, savings bank deposits and securities.

I've checked the census for this Mary A. Short and a Bridget Sullivan resided in her household in 1910 and 1920 at 73 Grove St. in Fall River. The birth dates fluctuate at least ten years between the two censuses. Still, with the mention of a "Milton Read," it makes me wonder...another coincidence? 

On April 7, 1929, the Boston Globe published an article about the finding of an axe in the demolished Borden barn. In one section of the article, entitled "Many in Case Dead," it lists all the witnesses and participants of the Borden case who had subsequently passed on. The last paragraph reads, "Bridget Sullivan, the maid, who was washing windows in her room on the third floor of the Borden homestead when the murders were committed, is also dead, it is understood."

On April 9, 1929, the Evening Tribune, Providence, R.I. published an interview with Alice Russell: 

"Breaks Silence in Borden Case"

Fall River, April 9.- Miss Alice M. Russell the state's star witness in the Lizzie Borden trial and the last surviving principle of that sensational murder case, broke a silence of 37 years yesterday to dismiss as a worthless clue the finding of the discolored cooper's tool in the old Borden barn and to defend the name and the memory of Bridget Sullivan, the maid in the Borden household. 

Further in the article, it quotes " a former mayor and a retired lawyer", who "requested that his name not be used as he commented on the strange case". 

"It's too bad that they did not stop the trial and have a good psychologist examine the girl," he stated. "I am sure they would've discovered a dual personality." (This is either John W. Cummings or Milton Reed, both ex-mayors and lawyers, and both still living at the time this article was written.)
Maybe Bridget never left Fall River. There was no reason for her to leave. Lizzie was believed to be the guilty one. The people of Fall River just wanted to put the whole hullabaloo behind them and move on. Bridget had an excellent reputation; her previous employers spoke very highly of her.Why pack up, lock, stock and barrel and relocate to Montana? She had friends and relatives in Fall River. It was the reason she came to Fall River. This is her testimony at the preliminary:

Preliminary Hearing, pg. 45, Cross-examination:

Q: Then you came from Pennsylvania here to Fall River?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did you know anyone in Fall River when you came here?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Have you any friends or relatives here?
A: Yes sir.
Q: In consequence of that fact you came here?
A: Yes sir.

It's a combination of factors that leads me to doubt the identity of the Montana Bridget. I just haven't heard anything that convinces me otherwise.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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My main doubt for Bridget sticking around Fall River is there is no mention of her sticking around Fall River. She was a very well known figure in that community due to the murders. Her face was in the paper, and hundreds of people had seen her during the trial. I think if she had stuck around there would be no controversy as to what happened to Bridget. It would not have been speculation in the papers that she had died. There probably would have been an obituary in the Fall River papers. A death certificate. There would be a paper trail. She had relatives in Pennsylvania but moved to Rhode Island, then Massachusetts. It's hard to believe she could've stayed in the town of Fall River anonymously as the star witness for their most notorious murder trial. Working for former employers would not have made her hard to find.
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:
And none if proves she was the Borden Bridget.

Sullivans, Sullivans, Sullivans. You've never seen such a biblical horde of one name in one spot. Or two. Silver Bow and Butte. It would be astonishing if she didn't have a relative there.

You're now convinced it's not her aren't you, Irish?
I'm more convinced than ever, Wendy.

What caused me to doubt wasn't just the discrepancies, but that 1900 census showing a Bridget Sullivan working for Milton Reed in Fall River. The dates are consistent with what we know of the Borden Bridget. We also know that Bridget had previously worked for the Reed family prior to working for the Bordens. Is it just a coincidence?

Then there were clues in the newspaper articles I posted: (Please forgive me for reposting!)
I've been doing some research via newspaper articles and found a few intriguing clues about what may have happened to Bridget following the murders. If the following snippets have some basis in fact, then maybe Bridget never went to Montana and may have died in or around Fall River prior to 1929. I'm not stating this as fact, but simply as an alternative possibility.

The Philadelphia Record - December 3, 1899

"Old Crime Resurrected. Detective Offers to Find The Borden Murderer. Renews His Tender of Five Years Ago to The Girl Once Suspected of The Felony."
Special to "The Record"

Fall River, Mass. Dec. 2. - The Borden murder has been brought to light again by the offer of the New York detective, Harry Simons, to prove the guilt of the Bordens' servant girl's lover in connection with the double tragedy. 

Six years ago Lizzie Borden was tried at Taunton and acquitted of the murder of her father and mother, but so many of her friends believed her guilty that she was not wholly restored to her former society standing. She inherited about 175,000, and has invested this so well she is amply able to prosecute any search if she is so disposed that will reveal the murderer. 

SECOND ATTEMPT TO PROVE GUILT
A year after the trial this same man offered for a large consideration to prove the guilt of a man who was a friend of Bridget Sullivan. The latter went to Ireland but has returned to Taunton and is living there. 

The story goes that she was to be joined in Ireland by her lover. During the trial there was no suspicion of a man around the house because it was proved impossible for one to have been there. More than that, the servant and her lover would have gained nothing by the death of the husband and wife, so that a motive for the crime is not offered them. 

On November 12, 1925, the Boston Daily Globe published an article entitled "Bulk of Estate to Housekeeper. Bridget E. Sullivan Rewarded for Faithful Services."
Taunton, Nov. 12. Mary A. Short, Fall RIver, has named Bridget E. Sullivan, Fall River, residual legatee under the terms of the will of Mrs. Short, which has been filed in Probate court in this city, as a reward for the faithful service of the Sullivan woman as nurse and housekeeper. No estimate of the estate is given, but Mrs. Short is reported to have been a woman of considerable means.
The article goes on to list other beneficiaries, among them, an antique mirror to Milton Read. This Bridget Sullivan inherited all other furniture, investments, savings bank deposits and securities.

I've checked the census for this Mary A. Short and a Bridget Sullivan resided in her household in 1910 and 1920 at 73 Grove St. in Fall River. The birth dates fluctuate at least ten years between the two censuses. Still, with the mention of a "Milton Read," it makes me wonder...another coincidence? 

On April 7, 1929, the Boston Globe published an article about the finding of an axe in the demolished Borden barn. In one section of the article, entitled "Many in Case Dead," it lists all the witnesses and participants of the Borden case who had subsequently passed on. The last paragraph reads, "Bridget Sullivan, the maid, who was washing windows in her room on the third floor of the Borden homestead when the murders were committed, is also dead, it is understood."

On April 9, 1929, the Evening Tribune, Providence, R.I. published an interview with Alice Russell: 

"Breaks Silence in Borden Case"

Fall River, April 9.- Miss Alice M. Russell the state's star witness in the Lizzie Borden trial and the last surviving principle of that sensational murder case, broke a silence of 37 years yesterday to dismiss as a worthless clue the finding of the discolored cooper's tool in the old Borden barn and to defend the name and the memory of Bridget Sullivan, the maid in the Borden household. 

Further in the article, it quotes " a former mayor and a retired lawyer", who "requested that his name not be used as he commented on the strange case". 

"It's too bad that they did not stop the trial and have a good psychologist examine the girl," he stated. "I am sure they would've discovered a dual personality." (This is either John W. Cummings or Milton Reed, both ex-mayors and lawyers, and both still living at the time this article was written.)
Maybe Bridget never left Fall River. There was no reason for her to leave. Lizzie was believed to be the guilty one. The people of Fall River just wanted to put the whole hullabaloo behind them and move on. Bridget had an excellent reputation; her previous employers spoke very highly of her.Why pack up, lock, stock and barrel and relocate to Montana? She had friends and relatives in Fall River. It was the reason she came to Fall River. This is her testimony at the preliminary:

Preliminary Hearing, pg. 45, Cross-examination:

Q: Then you came from Pennsylvania here to Fall River?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Did you know anyone in Fall River when you came here?
A: Yes sir.
Q: Have you any friends or relatives here?
A: Yes sir.
Q: In consequence of that fact you came here?
A: Yes sir.

It's a combination of factors that leads me to doubt the identity of the Montana Bridget. I just haven't heard anything that convinces me otherwise.
Thank-you so much for the repost! I somehow missed it before. And it is fascinating.

Quite a few people are 'breaking their silence' in 1929.
Lizzie has been dead two years. Perhaps it takes Bridget's death also.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:I don't believe either of these women is the Borden's maid Bridget Sullivan. I believe that they are two different men. A John M. Sullivan died in 1939. Bridget suffered from senility nine years later in 1948. She would have suffered from senility for almost ten years. Three of which she lived on her own until 1942. Giving information for the 1940 census where she lived alone. She was senile enough in 1939 to forget her husband's parent's names, but three years later in March of 1942 she is of sound mind and sharp as a tack making out her will. Even to the point of intentionally disinheriting relatives. This doesn't wash.
(KG, I did answer you last night, saw the post go on, and now see it's vanished. It was merely this. Re-typing.)

When you outline it this way, yes, it does look a bit problematic.

The trouble is, counter-arguments can unspool ad infinitum.

Perhaps she gets in a good lawyer, in 1942.
Perhaps she's already blind in 1939 & can't read the form.
Perhaps she's 'very upset'.

This is why biography can't be written solely from state records, however useful or suggestive.

Personally I was surprised by how this Alder Street couple can't ever give a straight answer to the Immigration question. They're just as approximate with their Immigration year as the Irish tended to be, I'm told, with their birth-year. I've seen Census records where people immigrate before they're born, which takes some doing.

Irish, some time ago I answered your William Hamilton topic - it's an intriguing article, it shouldn't be neglected. The Drafts box just deleted the lot in the posting. I must learn not to write in Drafts. And for what it's worth will rewrite.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Whether she had a good lawyer, was already blind so she couldn't see the form (which seem unlikely as she had been living alone up until 1942), or was very upset all of the information had to come from the woman herself. When you make out a will all of the information comes from you because it is your legal document as to how you want your estate disbursed after your death. The lawyer or any other person does make those decisions or suggestions. He usually doesn't do detective work to find your beneficiaries. Yet she remembers the names of nieces and nephews, their family relationships (by marriage), and is sharp enough to intentionally disinherit relatives "I have intentionally omitted relatives, who are not specifically mentioned. " and generally and specifically disinherited each. Then there is the "of sound mind" part which implies nobody believes she was senile. If she had not been of sound mind at the time, and it could be proven, the will could have been successfully contested.
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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violette wrote:
That struck me too. The Borden Bridget certainly has a funny-bone, she's quite the card. She and Lizzie were even setting each other off in court, according to reporters. To whit, during that interminable food-autopsy.
I hadn't read that. If the reporters were correct, then she wouldn't have been suffering from stress and psychological issues (like I had thought she could possibly have been) due to the murders.

Hmm. Now I'm perplexed.

Do you know in which paper the article appeared?
Violette, it's from the Sourcebook, which is a compendium of contemporary press-articles, I read it over Xmas & didn't take Bridget-notes, sorry. I'm about to reread it for Bridget, and will get back to you.

I was following how court-reporters worked the job of Lizzie's behaviour in court. The best journalists of the time flooded into Fall River for the trial and they're not to be sniffed at. Those who got premium place, who got the court-seats, did conscientious work. And with such a spectacle as the Court proceedings, you couldn't really go off on much of a fictionalised slant; every other contending paper on the story would prove you wrong. So, while some may be more perceptive than others, if Lizzie does anything in Court there's basic agreement on what it is she does. She's visibly amused on several occasions. You can imagine how eager these reporters would be to tell this but it seems to be true. And during one long interrogation of Bridget about that appetising menu, Lizzie and Bridget are seen to exchange a look - they both find it funny.

It reminds one of Abby's complaint to a neighbour, "They've taken my keys..." I don't know why I read '"they" as Lizzie and Bridget. But it's easy to think these two some shared some mischief or rebellion.

When Bridget enters the court for the first time, all reporters' eyes checked Lizzie. Lizzie suddenly sat up straight and paid full attention. She remained tensely, intensely alert all through Bridget's testimony, from start to finish. At other times she appeared to be barely present.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:Whether she had a good lawyer, was already blind so she couldn't see the form (which seem unlikely as she had been living alone up until 1942), or was very upset all of the information had to come from the woman herself. When you make out a will all of the information comes from you because it is your legal document as to how you want your estate disbursed after your death. The lawyer or any other person does make those decisions or suggestions. He usually doesn't do detective work to find your beneficiaries. Yet she remembers the names of nieces and nephews, their family relationships (by marriage), and is sharp enough to intentionally disinherit relatives "I have intentionally omitted relatives, who are not specifically mentioned. " and generally and specifically disinherited each. Then there is the "of sound mind" part which implies nobody believes she was senile. If she had not been of sound mind at the time, and it could be proven, the will could have been successfully contested.
I totally agree, myself. My point was, those who want to espouse one Bridget over another will make objections and find many a reason why his death-certificate might have his parentage 'wrong'. And I was being a bit facetious. Yes, people are fairly careful about death-certificates but when it comes to a will, very careful. It'll be hard to argue she's sane in 1942 and bonkers in 1939.

The John M Sullivan who dies in 1939 lived at 701 Alder Street. When I last frowned at the Census he and his wife Bridget married in 1905 (though I don't know enough about Census to say if the number of months is also a match.) On his death-certificate his parentage doesn't match that 1905 Anaconda marriage. So it's either an honest mistake on the death record, or wilful imposture, or there's another 1905 marriage and another John M. which make an all-round, perfect fit. The wretched Sullivans are giving me headaches :eek: , I still haven't understood where the Billeragh dynasty leaves us, so very politely I ask

Irish :grin: to explain it again. As hard as I try to follow, I can't. It's a fiendish puzzle.
Irish, can you put it an easy way, please?
Are there two 1905 marriages, one with Alder Street Bridgie as a Witness, and one with another Bridget the Bride...both to a John M. Sullivan?
On the whole, given the sheer number of Sullivans, it seems more likely than monkeying about with your husband's death certificate.

And is Kilcatherine Bridget still in the running?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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InterestedReader wrote: And I was being a bit facetious.
Understood. Much like the Kelly maid chopping up the good doctor and his family due to the heat. :grin:
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I still haven't understood where the Billeragh dynasty leaves us, so very politely I ask

Irish :grin: to explain it again. As hard as I try to follow, I can't. It's a fiendish puzzle.
Irish, can you put it an easy way, please?
Hi Wendy:

According to genealogist O'Dwyer, Bridget Sullivan, daughter of Eugene Sullivan and Margaret Leary, had 12 siblings. Among them was a brother, Eugene.

O'Dwyer states that Eugene married Margaret O'Sullivan, daughter of Daniel O'Sullivan and Ellen O'Sullivan of Billerough (also spelled “Billeragh” in the Irish census).

In the 1901 census for Billeragh, a Eugene Sullivan, widower, age 45, occupation farmer, is residing in the household of his in-laws, Daniel and Ellen Sullivan, and children Mary, age 16, Catherine, age 14, Patrick, age 13, and Margaret, age 11.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... h/1095263/

In the 1911 census of Billeragh, Eugene, age 54, is living with daughter, Mary, age 24, son Patrick, age 22, and mother-in-law Ellen, age 64. Catherine and Margaret are not listed, so they either died, married, or immigrated before 1911.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... gh/378521/

I think both Catherine and Margaret immigrated to Butte.

On Feb. 22, 1911, a Katie Sullivan, age 22, of Castletown, Cork, daughter of Eugene Sullivan and Margaret Sullivan, married John Moriarity in Butte.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3S1-RK8

In the 1930 census, Catherine Moriarity, a widow, is residing in Dublin Gultch, Silver Bow, Montana with her three children, Mary, John & Edward. She gives an immigration year of 1905.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XC9M-N6Z

Catherine Sullivan Moriarity died on Feb. 6, 1960.

Margaret Sullivan married 1). George McNally (date unknown; m. 2). James B. Taylor on June 16, 1917. She is 28, b. 1889 in Ireland, her parents are Eugene Sullivan and Margaret Sullivan.

Margie Taylor in the 1920 census:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M8Q7-QVK

On Sept. 15, 1925, she married Kenneth McLeod in Silver Bow. She gives her status as “widow.”

Margie McLeod in the 1930 census in which she gives an immigration year of 1907:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XC9M-TMD

Margaret “Marjorie” Sullivan McLeod died April 19, 1966.

Taken all together, all the information seems to infer that Catherine and Margaret (Kate Moriarity and Margaret McLeod, as mentioned in Bridget's will) are the daughters of Bridget's brother, Eugene Sullivan.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by KGDevil » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:19 am

My main doubt for Bridget sticking around Fall River is there is no mention of her sticking around Fall River. She was a very well known figure in that community due to the murders. Her face was in the paper, and hundreds of people had seen her during the trial. I think if she had stuck around there would be no controversy as to what happened to Bridget. It would not have been speculation in the papers that she had died. There probably would have been an obituary in the Fall River papers. A death certificate. There would be a paper trail. She had relatives in Pennsylvania but moved to Rhode Island, then Massachusetts. It's hard to believe she could've stayed in the town of Fall River anonymously as the star witness for their most notorious murder trial. Working for former employers would not have made her hard to find.
Hi KG!

You make some very valid points, and I appreciate the feedback. Many of the major participants in the trial remained in Fall River or in the vicinity, including, as you know, Lizzie Borden herself. Bridget could very well have resumed her life there after the trial, as well. The move to Montana could have been nothing more than a red herring to deter curious outsiders.
There could be an obituary for Bridget somewhere...depending on where she died. I still haven't been able to find a local obituary for the Bridget Sullivan in Anaconda...only the one that was widely circulated in 1948 that gave no details about her life..nothing about her husband, no funeral details, no mention of surviving relatives, etc...what you would typically find in an individual's obituary. As to a death certificate for a Bridget Sullivan in Fall River, we would of course need an exact date of death, but Massachusetts records have only been digitalized up until 1915. I still can't completely discount those 1929 newspaper references to Bridget's death or what the sources were for that information.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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This passage has been posted repeatedly on the forum to prove that Bridget was in Anaconda in 1896 working for Judge George Winston. From: Anaconda, Montana: Copper Smelting Boom Town on the Western Frontier, by Patrick F. Morris, page 35
In early 1884, George B. Winston arrived to open a law office. A native of Missouri, he came to Butte in 1883 and moved to Anaconda soon after he was admitted to the Montana bar. He later became Anaconda's first City Attorney, first City Clerk and was one of the seventy-five men to assemble in Helena in 1889, to write a constitution for the new state to be. Winston later became a judge and established a record for longevity on the bench, serving from 1904 to 1933. In 1896, he hired Bridget Sullivan, a maid who had worked for the notorious Lizzie Borden. Bridget worked for Winston until he died in 1936, never once mentioning the gory details of what she had seen that hot summer day in 1892 in Fall River, Massachusetts when her employers, Andrew Borden and his wife, were killed with an ax allegedly wielded by their daughter, Lizzie. Bridget married John M. Sullivan in Anaconda in 1905 and lived with him at 701 Alder Street for thirty-four years. When John died in 1939, she moved to Butte where she lived until her death in 1948. Both she and her husband are buried in Anaconda's Mount Carmel Cemetery.
However, the author also included this footnote (#24) on page 297:

“Information on Judge Winston and Bridget Sullivan comes from separate biographical cards on each of them prepared by the Anaconda Deer Lodge County Historical Society for the Anaconda Centennial in 1983. Alice Finnigan, a local historian, tells me that there were two Bridget Sullivans living in Anaconda and the one working for Judge Winston was not the Bridget of Lizzie Borden fame.” (Bold is highlighted by me)
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'In 1896 Bridget Sullivan was discovered to be...'

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irishlass78 wrote:This passage has been posted repeatedly on the forum to prove that Bridget was in Anaconda in 1896 working for Judge George Winston. From: Anaconda, Montana: Copper Smelting Boom Town on the Western Frontier, by Patrick F. Morris, page 35
George B. Winston. [...] In 1896, he hired Bridget Sullivan, a maid who had worked for the notorious Lizzie Borden. Bridget worked for Winston until he died in 1936, never once mentioning. [...]. Et-cetera.



In 1900 there is no housekeeper.
In 1920 it is Estried Linner.
In 1930 it is Dena Theisen.
In 1910 yes, there is a Bridget Sullivan. She's been in the States for 5 years. And she's 28.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MM5W-HZJ
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MLCQ-V1M
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M83K-Y3B
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCMV-5K8

'1896'...
I don't understand the research process.

Judge Winston hires a fourteen-year-old for his housekeeper probably just to be nice - she'd been witnessing murders at ten. He's in Montana. She's in Ireland.
So begins Bridget Sullivan's well-documented life in Anaconda.

Myself I might try abandoning these 'known facts' for another approach, which Irish has more than once spoken of. It makes more sense to pursue Irish immigrant families taking good root in Fall River in the 1880s, which Bridget would join on crossing. One thing I've learnt trawling through Montana Sullivans is the intimate link with Harringtons; newcoming Sullivans and Harringtons will clan together in the one household. There's also a Jeremiah Sullivan thing going on in Fall River which looks interesting, a nexus of Co. Cork DNA. But to concentrate on names and places the known Bridget does speak of, makes more sense than searching for records which might 'fit'. Fit what? Pretty much, there is no factually-tethered Bridget Sullivan after the Trial, so it's matching one unknown life to another among hundreds of thousands.

Or matching a name to someone among 5 million, 5 million Irish people in Ireland, all with the same ubiquitous surnames and repetitively-shared forenames - if one attempts to do like O 'Dwyer and find Bridget by where she began. At present we know nothing of where in Ireland she might have been born; there's no document naming it. So it's hardly surprising this method can end in a cul-de-sac. Or the middle of the ocean, when someone spots another Bridget Sullivan on the Scythia passenger-list in 1894.

An otherwise blank Census search for Bridget Sullivan in Montana, 1900, gives 23 results.
The same Bridget Sullivan search in Massachusetts, 1900, gives 366 results.
And several among these 389 are quite attractive candidates, for varying reasons.

I really can't see what Anaconda Bridget has to recommend her, beyond some posthumous gossip in smalltown papers, a chatty librarian, and a family who research her before claiming she worked for the Bordens. There's no evidence for that. They have two photographs. Which do prove the real Bridget Sullivan knew someone - indeed a neice or nephew - in Montana. We don't know who because the inscription is removed. And there's 1,275 Sullivans in Montana, by 1930.

The family said it shows "Bridget in her seventies."
That's between the 1940s and 1950s then, because Alder St. Bridget is born 1870 or 1875.
But one photographs dates from between1906 and 1910, and the other dates from between 1916 and 1924.
Also, Alder St Bridget cannot be standing next to her husband John when in her seventies. He is dead.

Yes, two generations of a Sullivan family might begin in Billeragh and end hugger-mugger in properties along Alder St, Anaconda and there's inevitably a Bridget. But as KG keeps saying in frustration, how does this 'prove' she's the Borden Bridget? Even if it's demonstrated to a nicety that Billeragh Bridget became Alder Street Bridget - it doesn't, it doesn't make her the Fall River Bridget. Meanwhile, the 5 or so million Irish still in Ireland in the 1870s and the sheer frequency of the like name-incidence, for Sullivan especially, surely means that tracking an Immigrant's life at that time, purely by Census, cannot often be conclusive.

Bridget Sullivan's photograph from the 1880s however is not the photograph of a 'Maggie' (or 'char' as they'd be known here). This is informative. It suggests she subsequently resorts to domestic service only after some failed enterprise or marriage.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:
I still haven't been able to find a local obituary for the Bridget Sullivan in Anaconda...only the one that was widely circulated in 1948 that gave no details about her life..nothing about her husband, no funeral details, no mention of surviving relatives, etc...what you would typically find in an individual's obituary.
Irish, could you please remind me where this can be seen?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I'm a little confused Irishlass.You stated that O'Dwyer claims that Bridget's brother Eugene Sullivan married Margaret Sullivan in Billeragh, Cork, Ireland. Then in the 1901 census you show Eugene in Billeragh, Cork, Ireland with his daughters Catherine and Margaret. In the 1911 Census you once again show Eugene Sullivan and his family in Billeragh, Cork, Ireland. Where I get confused is the 1911 marriage record for Katie Sullivan from Castletown, Cork, Ireland. Castletown, Cork, Ireland is a nice little distance away from Billeragh, Cork, Ireland. At least 40 minutes. How does this connect her with Bridgets brother Eugene?
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I have a few hobbies I have enjoyed for the better part of my life. Studying murder mysteries and genealogy are two. I've been doing genealogy for over 25 years. For myself, friends, and for the occassional murder mystery like this one. Besides murder mysteries family trees are the most fascinating puzzles to solve. I have never run across the sheer volume of inconsistencies in records as our Montana Bridget Sullivan who turned out to be the same person. But everyone is quick to explain the inconsistencies away in one way or another because of Sullivan family lore.

I've run across family lore and how powerfully it takes root in my own family. These tales are repeated across every generation in every genealogy board by people from all over the country with that surname. When many are clearly not related in anyway. The legend involves a man born over 200 years ago as an Indian child. His Indian family was killed when his village was raided by another tribe, and the baby was taken in by a compassionate white family. No records exist to prove this, quite the opposite, all of the known records list him as a white man. But it is explained away by the saying his Indian blood was hidden because of hatred of the Indians. They say a full blooded Indian was raised by two white parents, calling him a white man on official documents, and nobody questioned it. It baffles the mind. Yet it is in everyone's family lore.

When doing genealogy it's natural to work backwards. Because the records are better kept the closer you get to today, the information is more detailed and well maintained, and there are living relatives to provide the information. A man born at home in the 1920's with no official birth certificate will have information show up in his children's birth, marriage, and death certificate. My great great grandfather had no official birth certificate. He got his social security card by having family members vouch for his identity 20 years later in a Delayed Certificate of Birth. One persons identity vouched for another. Which is another reason it's good to start with a person's known relatives. You would be surprised how often I've run across these certificates used as proof of identity. The trouble with starting with a Bridget Sullivan who lived in Fall River in 1892 is we have no known living relatives to start with, besides Diana Porter who supplied the new photos, and all we do have is Sullivan family lore.
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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It's a very good point, KG, about cherished family lore. It always turns out to be delusional! In the UK we have programmes such as Who Do You Think You Are? The family traditions always turn out to be so very far from the truth - and the truth utterly fascinating, absorbing, better than fantasies constructed by successive generations. The ancestors never were disinherited of their baronetcies or the love-children of a Duke, but one did help build Nelson's flagship. They're like that. One woman discover she's a descendant of a Whitechapel victims, Catharine Eddowes. She finds it hard to take.

In this family-story Bridget never speaks of the murders. To her family. It's a bit odd,because the Bordens' Bridget, they couldn't shut her up. Everywhere you read of her voluble character, in her testimony she's often interrupted, curtailed - what we see of her just after the crime, there's always information on the tip of her tongue, and I imagine her counsel had quite a job taming her down to some self-restraint. I can hear her in her testimony, boasting of the way she walks "right into the room", or "right up to the corpse" while Bowen and the menfolk are having the vapours. Lizzie's on a chaise annoyed by people wanting her to faint but Bridget's marching upstairs and down-cellar, around the murder house, wielding all the house-keys. She seems a bold one, bouyant on self-importance. There's not a shred of timidity in her nature, she's tough - they bash away at her testimony for hour upon hour, she doesn't break. There's an almost laughable sense of her own significance in so much drama...

And this woman never says a word to her own family?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by KGDevil » Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:26 am

I'm a little confused Irishlass.You stated that O'Dwyer claims that Bridget's brother Eugene Sullivan married Margaret Sullivan in Billeragh, Cork, Ireland. Then in the 1901 census you show Eugene in Billeragh, Cork, Ireland with his daughters Catherine and Margaret. In the 1911 Census you once again show Eugene Sullivan and his family in Billeragh, Cork, Ireland. Where I get confused is the 1911 marriage record for Katie Sullivan from Castletown, Cork, Ireland. Castletown, Cork, Ireland is a nice little distance away from Billeragh, Cork, Ireland. At least 40 minutes. How does this connect her with Bridgets brother Eugene?
Hi KG:

I believe that Castletown was the Poor Law Union that serviced several of the parishes and small towns in the district of Kilcatherine, where Billeragh is located. I've noticed that many immigrants from the area used "Castletown" as their place of origin, rather than the actual name of the town or parish. It's very confusing, but this link may help explain. http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuse ... lcatherine
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by InterestedReader » Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:26 am

irishlass78 wrote:
I still haven't been able to find a local obituary for the Bridget Sullivan in Anaconda...only the one that was widely circulated in 1948 that gave no details about her life..nothing about her husband, no funeral details, no mention of surviving relatives, etc...what you would typically find in an individual's obituary.


Irish, could you please remind me where this can be seen?
HI Wendy!

The complete 1948 obituary is located on page 1 of this thread.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by KGDevil » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:59 am

I have a few hobbies I have enjoyed for the better part of my life. Studying murder mysteries and genealogy are two. I've been doing genealogy for over 25 years. For myself, friends, and for the occassional murder mystery like this one. Besides murder mysteries family trees are the most fascinating puzzles to solve. I have never run across the sheer volume of inconsistencies in records as our Montana Bridget Sullivan who turned out to be the same person. But everyone is quick to explain the inconsistencies away in one way or another because of Sullivan family lore.
Hi KG:

I've also been doing genealogy research for a number of years now, and I can't agree more. I think family lore just added to the muddle of inconsistencies in relation to the Montana Bridget. The source of a lot of family lore, based on my experience, is usually a misheard or misunderstood snippet of information or conversation that, like the old game of "Telephone," gets embellished and amplified over time.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Thank you for clarifying your reasoning Irishlass. I had originally been talking about Castletown which is a townland in Castletownroche, County Cork, Ireland. Which is about 40 minutes from Billeragh, Cork, Ireland. I didn't see a connection between Katie Sullivan claiming to be born there. But according to the link you provided, and your explaination of Castletown Poor Law Union, it does not really shed any further light on the connection for me. Every city on the list falls under the Castletown Poor Law Union. I'm still not sure how that narrows it down to Eugene's family. I'm not trying to be picky. I'm just searching for a solid conection.
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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In this family-story Bridget never speaks of the murders. To her family. It's a bit odd,because the Bordens' Bridget, they couldn't shut her up. Everywhere you read of her voluble character, in her testimony she's often interrupted, curtailed - what we see of her just after the crime, there's always information on the tip of her tongue, and I imagine her counsel had quite a job taming her down to some self-restraint. I can hear her in her testimony, boasting of the way she walks "right into the room", or "right up to the corpse" while Bowen and the menfolk are having the vapours. Lizzie's on a chaise annoyed by people wanting her to faint but Bridget's marching upstairs and down-cellar, around the murder house, wielding all the house-keys. She seems a bold one, bouyant on self-importance. There's not a shred of timidity in her nature, she's tough - they bash away at her testimony for hour upon hour, she doesn't break. There's an almost laughable sense of her own significance in so much drama...

And this woman never says a word to her own family?
I completely agree, Wendy. She would have had quite a story to tell! Why was she so reticent?

The only reason I can think of is that the Borden murders were still considered unsolved, and Bridget...assuming the Montana Bridget is the Borden Bridget...may have still feared prosecution, either as an accessory or as a participant in the crime. That may explain the move across country and the "radio silence" that followed. On the other hand, if she wasn't the Borden Bridget, then she naturally wouldn't know the "insider" details of the case, thus the reticence.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by KGDevil » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:44 pm

Thank you for clarifying your reasoning Irishlass. I had originally been talking about Castletown which is a townland in Castletownroche, County Cork, Ireland. Which is about 40 minutes from Billeragh, Cork, Ireland. I didn't see a connection between Katie Sullivan claiming to be born there. But according to the link you provided, and your explaination of Castletown Poor Law Union, it does not really shed any further light on the connection for me. Every city on the list falls under the Castletown Poor Law Union. I'm still not sure how that narrows it down to Eugene's family. I'm not trying to be picky. I'm just searching for a solid conection.
You're welcome, KG. I agree the connection is not concrete, but the particulars do match in a number of areas. I think the relationship is a strong possibility.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:
by InterestedReader » Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:26 am

irishlass78 wrote:
I still haven't been able to find a local obituary for the Bridget Sullivan in Anaconda...only the one that was widely circulated in 1948 that gave no details about her life..nothing about her husband, no funeral details, no mention of surviving relatives, etc...what you would typically find in an individual's obituary.


Irish, could you please remind me where this can be seen?
HI Wendy!

The complete 1948 obituary is located on page 1 of this thread.
I am so very sorry. I had read and re-read that page. I think it's because we Brits wouldn't think of this as an 'obituary' - as you say, it's short on vital statistics and doesn't do any of the usual, for family, funeral etc. I just read it as another speculative news feature.

If people will permit one observation, it strikes me that between folk in the United Kingdom and folk in the States, there's a very different attitude towards this middle-name or its initial. I don't think we adhere to it in the same way at all. It might be drawn out of us at times, we might flourish it for official forms - and equally, we might not. I've often been struck by this difference in attitude during the discussion. If I think of my great-grandparents' documents, their middle name or initial is more often left off. Also, in American records it's my impression that women were beginning to use it in a different way - to signal not their own second christian name, but their surname before marriage. I know nothing of genealogy, but it's my impression. In Massachusetts, very much so - there's a kind of tribal insistence on asserting their surname at birth. Thus a Borden at birth becomes a Someone B. Someone after marriage, in records. The middle initial is being used in a way we just never see in British records.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I'm also thinking Kate looks anomalous. Why would a farmer working a remote area be fathering his children in town, and far from home? Castletown (Castletownkenneigh) is a heck of a distance from Billeragh. From an 1880s perspective it's very far. Could Castletown on Katie's marriage certificate mean Castletown Bearhaven, which is in the Billeragh area?

Irish, are you sure it means the district? Wouldn't Billeragh fall in the parish of Kilnamanagh? With its Registrar District Kilcatherine? The Irish couldn't wait to throw off anything to do with the Poor Law, which in practice was all about workhouses, I thought. In 1901 they're soon to do so. Back in the 1880s and earlier the workhouses themselves were packing off emigrants - wouldn't these assisted, state 'assistance' emigrations be more likely to refer to Poor Law areas?

Eugene, Margaret, Catherine, Sullivan these are among the commonest names in Ireland. There'll be more than one Catherine born between 1884 and 1885 to a Eugene and Margaret Sullivan. And that said, there are very few Castletown Sullivans on the 1901 census. Of those, no elder generation at all. All young 'uns. Sullivans seem to be rural people. I was hoping for a new realm of possibility, with Katie Sullivan of Castletown. There's only one Catherine in 1901 - 23 and she appears not to emigrate.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... n/1120121/

There's a Billeragh Catherine who's a better match age-wise for the Katie Sullivan marrying Mr Moriarity in Butte in 1911. She's become Kate by 1911 and rats! she didn't emigrate in 1905, and hasn't enough time to cross for that wedding!

But Irish, what did you make of Billeragh Michael Sullivan?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... h/1095261/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... gh/378519/

Michael is a farmer, like Eugene. For those names on the wills there's a Denis and Julia. And with the Julia, there's a Daniel among the siblings, suggestive of the Julia and Daniel parentage on Michael M Sullivan's Anaconda Marriage Certificate. Grandparents perhaps? Does this Billeragh Michael Sullivan fit anywhere in the picture? He's born in 1856, could he be Eugene's brother? Or brother to either the Bridget or the John at that Anaconda marriage?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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No wonder the Sullivans and Harringtons clan together so, by household, once in the States.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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A question regarding O'Dwyer's identification -
One thing Bridget says she has is a Harrington cousin. Does O'Dwyer's genealogy match up with those Harringtons at 94 Division Street, where she 'took refuge' during the Trial?

I'm sorry, I know I should slog through the work myself but I'm not clear if the 'Mrs Patrick Harrington' of the newspaper reports has been properly identified. You have written -

'Her cousin may have been Bridget Harrington, wife of Patrick. Patrick Harrington & Bridget Leary were married in Fall River, MA in Sept. 1891. Her parents were John & Margaret Leary.'

Is that O'Dwyer, or did you find it ?.. in which case, I'll know it's correct & proceed from there to search.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by InterestedReader » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:35 pm

I'm also thinking Kate looks anomalous. Why would a farmer working a remote area be fathering his children in town, and far from home? Castletown (Castletownkenneigh) is a heck of a distance from Billeragh. From an 1880s perspective it's very far. Could Castletown on Katie's marriage certificate mean Castletown Bearhaven, which is in the Billeragh area?
Hi Wendy!

Yes, "Castletown" as noted on Katie's marriage certificate I believe refers to Castletownbere.

The link to the 1901 census for the family also notes the "Enumerator's Abstract" form, which gives the breakdown of the location in which the family lived. It can be found under the section "View Census Images."

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... h/1095263/

This is the original Enumerator's Abstract form:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000502288/

This section from The Butte Irish: Class and Ethnicity in an American Mining Town, 1875-1925
By David M. Emmons
, pg. 15-16, address the huge influx of Sullivan families from Castltownbere to Butte:

https://books.google.com/books?id=jKeKm ... re&f=false

"
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by InterestedReader » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:32 pm

A question regarding O'Dwyer's identification -
One thing Bridget says she has is a Harrington cousin. Does O'Dwyer's genealogy match up with those Harringtons at 94 Division Street, where she 'took refuge' during the Trial?

I'm sorry, I know I should slog through the work myself but I'm not clear if the 'Mrs Patrick Harrington' of the newspaper reports has been properly identified. You have written -

'Her cousin may have been Bridget Harrington, wife of Patrick. Patrick Harrington & Bridget Leary were married in Fall River, MA in Sept. 1891. Her parents were John & Margaret Leary.'

Is that O'Dwyer, or did you find it ?.. in which case, I'll know it's correct & proceed from there to search.
Hi Wendy!

I found that entry myself, but I don't know for certain if that's Bridget's cousin who married Patrick Harrington. I'm still searching. But this newspaper article from The Sun dated Aug. 10, 1892 offers a few clues. There's a brief interview with Mrs. Patrick Harrington in regard to Bridget's bundle that she removed from the Borden house. She also makes mention of the fact that she and her husband are from County Cork and have lived in Fall River for over eleven years. The article is well worth reading in its entirety for all the small details.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/ ... nge&page=1
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:
by InterestedReader » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:35 pm

Could Castletown on Katie's marriage certificate mean Castletown Bearhaven, which is in the Billeragh area?
Hi Wendy!

Yes, "Castletown" as noted on Katie's marriage certificate I believe refers to Castletownbere.

The link to the 1901 census for the family also notes the "Enumerator's Abstract" form, which gives the breakdown of the location in which the family lived. It can be found under the section "View Census Images."

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... h/1095263/

This is the original Enumerator's Abstract form:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000502288/
So it does! CastletownBere and Allihies Mines.
Pardon me. So much to learn.

I was half-hoping an anomalous Castletown Kate would suddenly throw up some new alternative, tra-la.
irishlass78 wrote:This section from The Butte Irish: Class and Ethnicity in an American Mining Town, 1875-1925
By David M. Emmons
, pg. 15-16, address the huge influx of Sullivan families from Castltownbere to Butte:

https://books.google.com/books?id=jKeKm ... re&f=false

"
Over 1,700 from this one tiny area, CastletownBere, go to America. And 1,138 go to Butte. An entire community transports itself semi-intact across the Atlantic to Butte. 77 Sullivan families. 1,200 Sullivans in Butte by 1908.

Well all I can say after trawling the Montana Census is, it certainly feels like it.

But it's really remarkable how they shift yet stay together.
That same mining tragedy played out in Cornwall at the beginning of the nineteenth century...The Cornish would just leave their beautiful land, in desperation.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote: Hi Wendy!

I found that entry myself, but I don't know for certain if that's Bridget's cousin who married Patrick Harrington. I'm still searching. But this newspaper article from The Sun dated Aug. 10, 1892 offers a few clues. There's a brief interview with Mrs. Patrick Harrington in regard to Bridget's bundle that she removed from the Borden house. She also makes mention of the fact that she and her husband are from County Cork and have lived in Fall River for over eleven years. The article is well worth reading in its entirety for all the small details.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/ ... nge&page=1
Yes, it's a great read. I hope the cousinship is true. 'Poisoned viscera' already in evidence... would not be true. There goes Lizzie's 'marked masculine air' again. Bridget saying 'The murderer could clear me.' But we don't know if she said it. Bridget and Mrs Harrington are colluding, Mrs Harrington is lying... Oh well. When the police finally realise Bridget & Lizzie should be separated... that's rather funny. Like, duh.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I've only just noticed the date of that story which went on the wires in 1948 -

A niece of Mrs. Sullivan, Mrs. Kate Moriarity of Butte, said she had heard her aunt "mention" the Borden case.'
The Daily Inter Lake (Kalispell, Montana) · Apr 26, 1948

Four weeks after Alder Street Bridget died alone in hospital - without family-member for Informant, at any rate - she is linked with the Bordens' Bridget. Who chased who? Did the 'press send someone to find the dead woman's family, or did the family attract 'press attention? It's odd because Kate Moriarity, if she does know more than this, is unwilling enlighten anyone much with particulars.
I'm not quite clear where, or by whom, the identification was made prior to 1948. Prior to this. Was Kate Moriarity actually the first to establish the link?
Perhaps there was no actual obituary because in itself her death wasn't news. In those days that 'News has reached us...' device was used by journalists just belatedly looking for copy - and that included scouring Deaths columns.

If we go to the online Butte-Silver Bow Archives
https://buttearchives.org
one Archive Record is worth noticing. The family, to judge by what they've put in these archives, don't seem to have anything more than they've already shown the world:
http://buttearchives.pastperfectonline. ... 4961545922
If there was any evidence Alder St. Bridget was once the most famous Irishwoman in the States, either she destroyed it, or her Executrix did, it would appear.

These Butte Archives have all the records and journals of Duggan's Merrill Mortuary, including 1948, for what it's worth. One need apply to the Archivist. Some interesting stuff in these Archives, including a book called Bantry, Berehaven and the O'Sullivan September With Map of the Beara Peninsula.
http://buttearchives.pastperfectonline. ... 5451345070
Irish, I expect you've seen all this already.
Last edited by InterestedReader on Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Has everyone heard this? It's a spoken history interview with Dianna and Joan Porter, a sound-file:

http://scholarworks.umt.edu/gathering/16/

It's about Butte, and family, and I don't know if they're going to do Aunt Bridget. It's long, I'm still listening. But it's jolly interesting anyway. They were both born in Butte, both before great-aunt Aunt Bridget died, and they are not what you might expect!
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote: 'Patrick Harrington and Bridget Leary were married in Fall River, MA in Sept. 1891. Her parents were John & Margaret Leary.'

....

I found that entry myself, but I don't know for certain if that's Bridget's cousin who married Patrick Harrington. I'm still searching. [....] Mrs. Patrick Harrington [...] also makes mention of the fact that she and her husband are from County Cork and have lived in Fall River for over eleven years
The Boston Post interview of August 20 1892... I wonder if it's the only one to state Mrs Harrington is Bridget's sister. Do you not give that any credence? Going through the Mr Harrington and Miss Sullivan marriages in Fall River they look much more hopeful to me, at least... If I get rid of the Patrick name! I can't for the life of me find a newspaper article which does identify Harrington as Patrick. He's an unnamed Harrington. (Just scoffing his dinner in the Boston Post.)
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:
by InterestedReader » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:35 pm

I'm also thinking Kate looks anomalous. Why would a farmer working a remote area be fathering his children in town, and far from home? Castletown (Castletownkenneigh) is a heck of a distance from Billeragh. From an 1880s perspective it's very far. Could Castletown on Katie's marriage certificate mean Castletown Bearhaven, which is in the Billeragh area?
Hi Wendy!

Yes, "Castletown" as noted on Katie's marriage certificate I believe refers to Castletownbere.

The link to the 1901 census for the family also notes the "Enumerator's Abstract" form, which gives the breakdown of the location in which the family lived. It can be found under the section "View Census Images."

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... h/1095263/

This is the original Enumerator's Abstract form:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/r ... 000502288/

This section from The Butte Irish: Class and Ethnicity in an American Mining Town, 1875-1925
By David M. Emmons
, pg. 15-16, address the huge influx of Sullivan families from Castltownbere to Butte:

https://books.google.com/books?id=jKeKm ... re&f=false

"
"Castletownbere (Irish: Baile Chaisleáin Bhéarra) is a small town in County Cork in Ireland. It is located on the Beara Peninsula by Berehaven Harbour. It is also known as Castletown Berehaven. "

It is over two and a half hours drive, per google maps, from Billeragh.
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The Sullivan Dynasty

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http://scholarworks.umt.edu/gathering/16/

Yes! they do the Sullivan genealogy. There's easily enough for you to decide once and for all if Bridget has already been traced to Butte.

Mind you, you have to wait for it. What seemed like well over an hour. It's worth it though.

Irish, if you haven't heard this, you really should.
You'll see their grandparents in the records because even I've done it - and there are some real surprises!
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by InterestedReader » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:05 pm

http://scholarworks.umt.edu/gathering/16/

Yes! they do the Sullivan genealogy. There's easily enough for you to decide once and for all if Bridget has already been traced to Butte.

Mind you, you have to wait for it. What seemed like well over an hour. It's worth it though.

Irish, if you haven't heard this, you really should.
You'll easily find their grandparents because even I've done it - and there are some real surprises!
Hi Wendy!

I listened to the recording...they mention Bridget, the Borden maid, quite late and only in general terms in relation to Irish maids/domestics, I believe (unless I missed another reference to her).

Here's a picture I found of Eugene and Johanna Sullivan from a book called "Irish Butte."
https://books.google.com/books?id=qhYS8 ... an&f=false

According to the Porter sisters, Johanna came to the U.S. from Eyeries, Cork in the late 1880's and possibly went to Fall River, before moving to Butte and marrying Eugene Sullivan in 1897. Eugene is from Allihies, Cork, famous for its copper mines (also, Bridget's origin of birth).
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F33S-LST

According to the marriage certificate, Johanna's parents are Daniel Sullivan and Julia Sullivan; according to her 1932 death certificate, her parents are Daniel Sullivan and Julia Harrington.https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1930397

John M. Sullivan's parents are Daniel Sullivan and Julia Sullivan on his marriage certficate, so Johanna and John M. were brother and sister. Alsso, there may have been another sister, Ellen Sullivan, who settled in Fall River and married Timothy Shea. Scroll down for the Shea obit dated 1928: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ussnei/Obit11.htm

Eugene and Johanna Sullivan ran a boarding house at 709 N. Main. They had five children, four daughters and a son, Eugene, who died young in a mining accident. Their youngest daughter, Josephine, married Harold Porter. Dianna and Joan Porter are their daughters

So there's a definite connection to both Butte and Fall River.

That's pretty much what I got from the recording. What do you think, Wendy?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by InterestedReader »

irishlass78 wrote:
by InterestedReader » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:05 pm

http://scholarworks.umt.edu/gathering/16/

Yes! they do the Sullivan genealogy. There's easily enough for you to decide once and for all if Bridget has already been traced to Butte.

Mind you, you have to wait for it. What seemed like well over an hour. It's worth it though.

Irish, if you haven't heard this, you really should.
You'll easily find their grandparents because even I've done it - and there are some real surprises!
Hi Wendy!

I listened to the recording...they mention Bridget, the Borden maid, quite late and only in general terms in relation to Irish maids/domestics, I believe (unless I missed another reference to her).

Here's a picture I found of Eugene and Johanna Sullivan from a book called "Irish Butte."
https://books.google.com/books?id=qhYS8 ... an&f=false

According to the Porter sisters, Johanna came to the U.S. from Eyeries, Cork in the late 1880's and possibly went to Fall River, before moving to Butte and marrying Eugene Sullivan in 1897. Eugene is from Allihies, Cork, famous for its copper mines (also, Bridget's origin of birth).
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F33S-LST

According to the marriage certificate, Johanna's parents are Daniel Sullivan and Julia Sullivan; according to her 1932 death certificate, her parents are Daniel Sullivan and Julia Harrington.https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1930397

John M. Sullivan's parents are Daniel Sullivan and Julia Sullivan on his marriage certficate, so Johanna and John M. were brother and sister. Alsso, there may have been another sister, Ellen Sullivan, who settled in Fall River and married Timothy Shea. Scroll down for the Shea obit dated 1928: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ussnei/Obit11.htm

Eugene and Johanna Sullivan ran a boarding house at 709 N. Main. They had five children, four daughters and a son, Eugene, who died young in a mining accident. Their youngest daughter, Josephine, married Harold Porter. Dianna and Joan Porter are their daughters

So there's a definite connection to both Butte and Fall River.

That's pretty much what I got from the recording. What do you think, Wendy?

I wonder if 2 great-aunt Bridgets might have been muddled with one another!

There's a lot of good evidence in that interview. I was really keen on the genealogy because it seemed to be closer than anything before. It was eay to find the 1897 marriage and find the couple on various Census...s - in one Eugene runs a 'Saloon House'!

Good find, Eugene and Johanna's photo!
Last edited by InterestedReader on Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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John Sullivan. Marriage on January 14, 1896 in Butte, Silver Bow, Montana. Age 30. Birth Year (Estimated) 1866. Father Daniel Sullivan. Mother Julia Harrington Sullivan. Spouse Mary Harrington. Spouse age 25. Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1871. Spouse's Father John Harrington. Spouse's Mother Margaret Sullivan Harrington.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F33S-X54
Last edited by KGDevil on Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Irish, my thinking all along has been - it's the Bordens' Brigitte in the two Porter photos. They've been misdated and there's nothing on them to make her John B.'s wife, or put her in Butte, or in short, anything making her Alder St. Bridget. But that family have them, so the next generation up, had an 'Aunt B.' who's the Bordens' Bridget. I've looked round and anything there is on record, by the Porters, about those photos, suggest they're in doubt exactly which great-aunt it is.

But surely the material in this interview will enable us to better establish Brigitte's whereabouts. Being limited to two potential sets of parentage is a help.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:John Sullivan. Marriage on January 14, 1896 in Butte, Silver Bow, Montana. Age 30. Birth Year (Estimated) 1866. Father Daniel Sullivan. Mother Julia Harrington Sullivan. Spouse Mary Harrington. Spouse age 25. Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1871. Spouse's Father John Harrington. Spouse's Mother Margaret Sullivan Harrington.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F33S-X54

The thing is, in the interview they use the name Eugene - he was known by Eugene, and then Gene, in later Census. He's Eugene in his marriage.
This 1897 marriage
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1 ... cc=1609797
matches his certain Census entry, in Immigration dates for the couple, and ages. I found the marriage by working back from the Census - which has all the information in the interview - the four distinctively named daughters, plus the son and even the house-number and address as given in the interview.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by KGDevil »

1880 Census for Fall River, Massachusetts.

Parents Daniel Sullivan and Julia Sullivan born in Ireland. Many children listed. Among them Michael, John, Johanna, and Ellen. Many of the children are born in Massachusetts.

Daniel Sullivan Self M 55 Ireland

Julia Sullivan Wife F 47 Ireland

Hannah Sullivan Daughter F 26 Ireland

Ellen Sullivan Daughter F 24 Ireland

Patrick Sullivan Son M 22 Massachusetts

Nellie Sullivan Daughter F 19 Massachusetts

Julia Sullivan Daughter F 17 Massachusetts

John Sullivan Son M 15 Massachusetts

Johanna Sullivan Daughter F 12 Massachusetts

Michael Sullivan Son M 9 Massachusetts

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MH6Q-9NP
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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