Bridget's Whereabouts

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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote: .so Johanna and John M. were brother and sister. Alsso, there may have been another sister, Ellen Sullivan, who settled in Fall River and married Timothy Shea. Scroll down for the Shea obit dated 1928: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ussnei/Obit11

'Surviving her are [...] two brothers, Jeremiah and John Sullivan and a sister, Mrs. Eugene Sullivan, the three latter of Butte, Mont.'

Hm... So we possibly have a good set now of Jeremiah, John, Johanna, Ellen
for Bridget's siblings?
The Butte John might be John M. of Alder Street in 1928... But Bridget is either dead or doesn't want to be found?
(Ellen was 'well-known', according to this obit.)
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:1880 Census for Fall River, Massachusetts.

Parents Daniel Sullivan and Julia Sullivan born in Ireland. Many children listed. Among them Michael, John, Johanna, and Ellen. Many of the children are born in Massachusetts.

Daniel Sullivan Self M 55 Ireland

Julia Sullivan Wife F 47 Ireland

Hannah Sullivan Daughter F 26 Ireland

Ellen Sullivan Daughter F 24 Ireland

Patrick Sullivan Son M 22 Massachusetts

Nellie Sullivan Daughter F 19 Massachusetts

Julia Sullivan Daughter F 17 Massachusetts

John Sullivan Son M 15 Massachusetts

Johanna Sullivan Daughter F 12 Massachusetts

Michael Sullivan Son M 9 Massachusetts

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MH6Q-9NP

The interview tells how Johanna emigrated from Ireland, and Johanna's Immigration date is usually 1887. She seems to be born in 1870.

The above Johanna is born in Massachusetts, surely?
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Just for clarification

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This is the 1897 Marriage Certificate I took to be Eugene and Johanna's.
image.jpg
Eugene's parents are Jerry SULLIVAN and Mary née Harrington SULLIVAN.
Johanna's are Dan SULLIVAN and Julia née Sullivan SULLIVAN.

Eugene's place of birth is given, 'at Castletown', and Johanna's is Eyeries.
(County Cork's Eyeries, incidentally, shows only 9 Sullivans, in the 1901 Irish Census.)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F33S-LSP
image.jpg
Brigitte must either be Eugene's sister, or Johanna's sister, or she marries a brother to one of them.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Butte, Montana, City Directory, 1942

A Bridget Sullivan living as a resident at 112 East Woolman Street. We also see Mary Sullivan (wid Tim) living as the head of 112 East Woolman. Strange that Bridget is not listed as widowed as all the other widows are if she lost a husband.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Butte, Montana, City Directory 1942

Mrs. Kate Moriarty (wid John).
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Butte, Montana, City Directory 1945.

There are three Bridget Sulluvans living in Butte but none living at 112 East Woolman. Mary (wid Tim) still living there.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Butte, Montana, City Directory 1948

Bridget Sullivan listed as resident of the county hospital. Mary ( wid Tim) still at 112 East Woolman.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Butte, Montana, City Directory 1940

Jerry D. Sullivan at 1900 Yale Avenue. John J. Sullivan living at 1900 1/2 Yale Avenue.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by KGDevil »

Fall River, Massachusetts, City Directory 1892

Patrick Sullivan, laborer 93 Division Street.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KD, where do we find the online City Directories for American cities, please? I never know.


(...There had been a Bridget Sullivan at 112 East Woolman but she was née Holland... attached is the husband's death certificate.)
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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InterestedReader wrote:KD, where do we find the online City Directories for American cities, please? I never know.


(...There had been a Bridget Sullivan at 112 East Woolman but she was née Holland... attached is the husband's death certificate.)

Sorry, that it's taken me so long to reply. I had been rechecking some information. I ended up renewing my subscription to ancestry.com which is where I got the information for the directories. Familysearch is a great site that I still use but their resources are not as extensive.

In 1942 the directory showed a Bridget Sullivan living at 112 East Woolman. She is not listed as a widow with the name of any husband which is the custom. Like the Mary ( widow Tim) also living at 112 East Woolman. In 1945 Mary (wid Tim) still lives at 112, but there are no longer any Bridget Sullivans listed at that address. In 1948, the year on the death certificate, the only Bridget Sullivan is listed as a resident of the county hospital. Which is listed on the death certificate as the informant for Bridget's death. Apparently Bridget did not reside with Mrs. Mary Sullivan until her death.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by KGDevil »

1902 Anaconda City Directory

3 John M. Sullivans
1 Bridget
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Anaconda City Directories

1905

Bridget dom 510 main (Judge Winston)
Bridget dom 522 Locust
John M. Sullivan fireman, Casting Plant Reduction Wks


1906, 1910, 1912, 1915

Bridget dom 510 Main

John M. Sullivan laborer Red'n Wks resides 412 Monroe


1909

No Bridget

John M. Sullivan Red'n Wks 412 Monroe


1916, 1917

Bridget Sullivan dom 510 Main

John M. Sullivan Red'n Wks 701 Alder


1918

No Bridget

John M. Sullivan laborer Red'n Wks 701 Alder


1925

No Bridget

John M. Sullivan lab, A C M Co 701 Alder


1928, 1930, 1936

Bridget Sullivan (wid John J.) r 613 Oak
(right below her in 1928 Catherine r 613 Oak. She is only widow John J in 1928. After that widow John.)

John M. Sullivan (Bridget) A C M Co 701 Alder


1939

Bridget Sullivan (wid John M. ) 701 Alder


1941

Bridget is gone.

A wife Bridget doesn't appear with John M. Sullivan until 1928. She is widowed by 1939. She is gone by 1941.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by KGDevil »

1941 Anaconda City Directory. Bridget is already gone, and nobody is living at 701 Alder.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by irishlass78 »

Hi KG!

There must be a form of telepathy going on here, because I've also been perusing the Anaconda/Butte city directories for the periods when Bridget was living there also.

Here's what I have, starting with 1896. (my bold/italics indicate who may be our Bridget):

Butte:
1896: Bridget Sullivan, seamstress
Mrs. Bridget Sullivan, E. Daly, Walkerville
Bridget Sullivan, domestic, ss O'Neill, 6 e of Main, Centerville

1899: Bridget Sullivan, dom., R.F. Pearce
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MM58-TMX
Richard F. Pearce was a manager of the Colorado Smelting & Mining Co. in Butte. Considering Bridget married a smelter man, this may be significant.
Bridget Sullivan, dom., rear 123 Dublin
Bridget Sullivan, dom. 201 Dublin

Bridget Sullivan, dressmakr., b. 314 E. Woolman
Bridgie A. Sullivan, conf., 930 N. Main, Centerville

1900: Bridget Sullivan, dom. R. Pearce
Miss Bridget A. Sullivan, conf., 930 N. Main, Centerville, r. same.

Anaconda
1902: Bridget Sullivan, dom, 610 Hickory, Frank Norbeck, Asst. Cashier of the Daly Bank & Trust of Anaconda.

1905: Bridget Sullivan, dom., 522 Locust (family of William & Maude Johnson?)
Bridget Sullivan, dom., 510 Main (G. Winston)


1905 Bridget married m. John M. Sullivan

1910 residence 412 Monroe St.
1916 residence 701 Alder
1939 Bridget Sullivan (wid. John M.) h. 701 Alder
1942 Mrs. Bridget Sullivan, 112 E. Woolman

1945 Sullivan, Mary (wid. Of Timothy) h. 112 E. Woolman (Bridget is not listed as a resident at this address)
Bridget Sullivan, h. 322 W. Bway, apt. 5
Bridget Sullivan (wid. M.H.) h. 920 W. Copper
Bridget Sullivan (w. John T.) h. 415 Pennsylvania Ave.(This Bridget Sullivan died in 1947; her parents were Bart Harrington & Johanna Kelly).
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by irishlass78 »

Ok...found this on a genealogy board in response to Naomi Farthing's post. This is the link: http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... .1/mb.ashx

Bridget Sullivan/FallRiver,MA/Butte,MT
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Re: Bridget Sullivan/FallRiver,MA/Butte,MT
Chris (View posts)
Posted: 8 Sep 2001 6:03AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Sullivan
After watching a special on Lizzie Borden on tv, I was prompted to look into this more. I vaguely remember my paternal grandmother, Mildred (now deceased) mentioning that her mother was the maid for Lizzie Borden. I know my great grandmother's name was Bridget and I believe her husband name was John. I do remember my grandmother saying that her father was blind. I seem to remember that both of their surnames were Sullivan. My grandmother had 4 siblings - one of whose name was John. She had 2 brothers - neither of which I believe married. I know the family lived in Massachussetts, but never heard of the move to Montana as all information from Borden case seems to imply. I do remember her telling me that my great grandparents immigrated from Cork County. Would be interested in hearing more.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote: Apparently Bridget did not reside with Mrs. Mary Sullivan until her death.

I keep wondering if this information only went online in 1999 with the Naomi Farthing post, or if it were published earlier. Must check.


The neice, Mary, Mrs Timothy Sullivan of 112 E. Woolman St....
Trying to establish just how she was Bridget's neice, exactly how they were related, I looked most of yesterday for her marriage with Timothy. Could not find the thing.
I see her death in 1951. (Stomach cancer. At 49.) I can find the Census records for Mary, Timothy and their children. But not the marriage.
On her death certificate it says her father was 'Jerry Sullivan' and her mother is unknown. (Even though her son is the informant. That Timothy the police officer who would die in the homicide, KD).

Has anyone managed to get their marriage and see Her mother's name?
Or established Mary's mother from her birth record?

That other name on the Bridget will, its executrix Julia O'Donnell - she's easier to identify isn't she. Likewise the daughter of a Jerry Sullivan. Julia benefits most from the will and she lives on Alder St.. You'd expect her to be Informant on the death certificate.

Online City Directories for the USA seem like pretty arcane knowledge here in the UK. I can never find a link! Help.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I'm still searching for any evidence that these people in the documents are the same Bridget and John. None of the evidence I have found so far matches up with the "Bridget of Montana" story. I am leaning towards it is not true. It's family legend. There is more than one Bridget Sullivan in these directories, and in the census records, with little identifying information. It's easy to pick one and make it fit if you ignore everything that doesn't.

Bridget did not appear by name in any city directory at 701 Alder until 1928. She is widowed by 1939, which matches the death certificate for the John Sullivan with the wrong parents. She is no longer living at 701 Alder by 1941. In fact no one is living there. Where did she go? The Bridget at 112 East Woolman doesn't show up until 1942. The will drawn up that is attributed to our Bridget is by a woman still living in Anaconda City instead of Butte, which is ignored, who was obviously not senile enough to have forgotten her husbands parents on his death certificate. There is no Bridget living at 112 Woolman in 1945. Again where did she go? In 1948 a Bridget Sullivan is a resident of the county hospital, not living with relatives. The fact that the informant for the 1948 death certificate was the county hospital would seem to indicate she died alone. No relatives to give information. The husbands name is not listed. We don't even know if this woman was married to John M. at all. There is no proof.

My conclusion after finding so much erroneous information is the whole Anaconda Bridget is a figment of lore.
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:Ok...found this on a genealogy board in response to Naomi Farthing's post. This is the link: http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... .1/mb.ashx

Bridget Sullivan/FallRiver,MA/Butte,MT
Replies: 3
Re: Bridget Sullivan/FallRiver,MA/Butte,MT
Chris (View posts)
Posted: 8 Sep 2001 6:03AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Sullivan
After watching a special on Lizzie Borden on tv, I was prompted to look into this more. I vaguely remember my paternal grandmother, Mildred (now deceased) mentioning that her mother was the maid for Lizzie Borden. I know my great grandmother's name was Bridget and I believe her husband name was John. I do remember my grandmother saying that her father was blind. I seem to remember that both of their surnames were Sullivan. My grandmother had 4 siblings - one of whose name was John. She had 2 brothers - neither of which I believe married. I know the family lived in Massachussetts, but never heard of the move to Montana as all information from Borden case seems to imply. I do remember her telling me that my great grandparents immigrated from Cork County. Would be interested in hearing more.
Do you think it's the following family?

If so they make a change.
This Bridget is living on Fall River's Second Srreet. She chose to make it her home.
Her husband was a Church Sexton
This Bridget waits til she's 70 for a rare burst of honesty about her age.


https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4X1-H27

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XQLS-4MJ

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MXTR-Z1K
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:I'm still searching for any evidence that these people in the documents are the same Bridget and John. None of the evidence I have found so far matches up with the "Bridget of Montana" story. I am leaning towards it is not true. It's family legend. There is more than one Bridget Sullivan in these directories, and in the census records, with little identifying information. It's easy to pick one and make it fit if you ignore everything that doesn't.

Bridget did not appear by name in any city directory at 701 Alder until 1928. She is widowed by 1939, which matches the death certificate for the John Sullivan with the wrong parents. She is no longer living at 701 Alder by 1941. In fact no one is living there. Where did she go? The Bridget at 112 East Woolman doesn't show up until 1942. The will drawn up that is attributed to our Bridget is by a woman still living in Anaconda City instead of Butte, which is ignored, who was obviously not senile enough to have forgotten her husbands parents on his death certificate. There is no Bridget living at 112 Woolman in 1945. Again where did she go? In 1948 a Bridget Sullivan is a resident of the county hospital, not living with relatives. The fact that the informant for the 1948 death certificate was the county hospital would seem to indicate she died alone. No relatives to give information. The husbands name is not listed. We don't even know if this woman was married to John M. at all. There is no proof.

My conclusion after finding so much erroneous information is the whole Anaconda Bridget is a figment of lore.

It's a funny thing you know but I believe one of the Dianna Porter photos is of 701 Alder Street. The house is still there, can be found on Streetview, and I believe there's a match with the background of the photo of a couple 'at Alder Street'. Is this woman the Bridget Sullivan? Seems so. But is that 'her husband' standing next to her, the John M. Sullivan who bought the property? Since Irish found the photograph of Eugene Sullivan, I seriously wonder. The man in the Alder Street photo looks exactly like Eugene.

Since Bridget is very nicely turned out in visiting-dress, I wonder if it's a photo of Bridget and her brother on a visit to Alder Street - but it's been misinterpreted. And if it does show 'Bridget in her seventies' as the Porter sisters believed, it can't be Alder John M. because he's dead.

I know what you mean about Anaconda Bridget. It's as if her biography is a patchwork, made of bits of official records. She never feels right. I've found another Bridget Sullivan, an alternative Bridget, who is very amusing. She's succeeded in changing her identity over three times so far & it's been quite a chase. I don't think anyone could discover her intentionally, she's so well-hidden - but only by accident. People sometimes do make themselves hard to trace. The Bordens' Bridget had good reason. Do you ever wonder if she went and hid herself good?
Last edited by InterestedReader on Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by KGDevil »

InterestedReader wrote:
KGDevil wrote:I'm still searching for any evidence that these people in the documents are the same Bridget and John. None of the evidence I have found so far matches up with the "Bridget of Montana" story. I am leaning towards it is not true. It's family legend. There is more than one Bridget Sullivan in these directories, and in the census records, with little identifying information. It's easy to pick one and make it fit if you ignore everything that doesn't.

Bridget did not appear by name in any city directory at 701 Alder until 1928. She is widowed by 1939, which matches the death certificate for the John Sullivan with the wrong parents. She is no longer living at 701 Alder by 1941. In fact no one is living there. Where did she go? The Bridget at 112 East Woolman doesn't show up until 1942. The will drawn up that is attributed to our Bridget is by a woman still living in Anaconda City instead of Butte, which is ignored, who was obviously not senile enough to have forgotten her husbands parents on his death certificate. There is no Bridget living at 112 Woolman in 1945. Again where did she go? In 1948 a Bridget Sullivan is a resident of the county hospital, not living with relatives. The fact that the informant for the 1948 death certificate was the county hospital would seem to indicate she died alone. No relatives to give information. The husbands name is not listed. We don't even know if this woman was married to John M. at all. There is no proof.

My conclusion after finding so much erroneous information is the whole Anaconda Bridget is a figment of lore.

It's a funny thing you know but I believe one of the Dianna Porter photos is of 701 Alder Street. The house is still there, can be found on Streetview, and I believe there's a match with the background of the photo of a couple 'at Alder Street'. Is this woman the Bridget Sullivan? Seems so. But is that 'her husband' standing next to her, the John M. Sullivan who bought the property? Since Irish found the photograph of Eugene Sullivan, I seriously wonder. The man in the Alder Street photo looks exactly like Eugene.

Since Bridget is very nicely turned out in visiting-dress, I wonder if it's a photo of Bridget and her brother on a visit to Alder Street - but it's been misinterpreted. And if it does show 'Bridget in her seventies' as the Porter sisters believed, the John M. they ascribe to her as her husband is already dead.

I know what you mean about Anaconda Bridget. It's as if her biography is a patchwork, made of bits of official records. She never feels right. I've found another Bridget Sullivan, an alternative Bridget, who is very amusing. She's succeeded in changing her identity over three times so far & it's been quite a chase. I don't think anyone could discover her intentionally, she's so well-hidden; only stumble into her by accident. People sometimes do make themselves hard to trace. The Bordens' Bridget had good reason. Do you ever wonder if she went and hid herself good?
I've also been chasing a "Bridgie" Sullivan and have mapped out her entire family. That's what I was working on just yesterday. She at first looked good for our Bridgie of Judge Winston fame. Her story has also been quite interesting to follow. I wish I could post it all here. I could just post my research as "Possible Bridgie Sullivans". :lol:
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:
InterestedReader wrote:
KGDevil wrote:It's easy to pick one and make it fit if you ignore everything that doesn't.

My conclusion after finding so much erroneous information is the whole Anaconda Bridget is a figment of lore.
I've also been chasing a "Bridgie" Sullivan and have mapped out her entire family. That's what I was working on just yesterday. She at first looked good for our Bridgie of Judge Winston fame. Her story has also been quite interesting to follow. I wish I could post it all here. I could just post my research as "Possible Bridgie Sullivans". :lol:

Let's post our Possibles. From the sound of Bridgie you'll enjoy my Possible also. And if you can Disprove her with genealogy her it would be genuinely fascinating. I have parents, birth, death, successive short-lived marriages - half her life; I'm stuck and can't get to the first half.

There's a salutary point here. At times I think there's small difference between such Bridgets who can be said to fit in some certain way, and the Officially Acknowledged Bridget who's being forced to fit.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by irishlass78 »

by InterestedReader » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:34 pm


The neice, Mary, Mrs Timothy Sullivan of 112 E. Woolman St.... 
Trying to establish just how she was Bridget's neice, exactly how they were related, I looked most of yesterday for her marriage with Timothy. Could not find the thing.
I see her death in 1951. (Stomach cancer. At 49.) I can find the Census records for Mary, Timothy and their children. But not the marriage.
On her death certificate it says her father was 'Jerry Sullivan' and her mother is unknown. (Even though her son is the informant. That Timothy the police officer who would die in the homicide, KD).

Has anyone managed to get their marriage and see Her mother's name?
Or established Mary's mother from her birth record?
I wasn't able to find a marriage certificate for Timothy & Mary Sullivan either.

I had previously posted that I thought Mary Sullivan was Bridget's niece by marriage. However, it looks like she was, in fact, Bridget's blood niece..the daughter of her sister, Cait (Catherine).

According to genealogist O'Dwyer, Bridget's sister “Cait (or Catherine) married Eugene Sullivan, son of Mark O'Sullivan and Anna Newman, Kilmichael, Dursey Island.” The article states, “Shortly after John's death, she (Bridget) moved in with her niece, Mrs. Mary (Banty Tim) Sullivan at 112 E. Wilman (sp) St. in Butte, Montana.”

https://archive.org/stream/lizzieborden ... 7/mode/2up
https://archive.org/stream/lizzieborden ... 9/mode/2up

This post from a genealogy board seems to confirm O'Dwyer:

From: caroleannquan@yahoo.com
> To: beara@rootsweb.com
> Subject: [BEARA] O'Sullivan
>
> Hi everyone, I am looking for the children of Mark and Anna O'Sullivan. They were married Nov 23, 1844, in Cahermore Church, Allihies Parish, Dursey Island. They had a daughter Mary born Feb 1847. They then went to the USA.
They had a son Eugene 1849,
Mortimore-he went to New Zealand,
Catherine,
Denis 1855, born on ship returning to Ireland,
Timothy 1857, Kilmichael, Dursey Island.
Eugene married Cait (Owen) Feb 16,1884. They had 12 children:
Timothy Dec 26, 1884
Daniel, Jan 13, 1886
Eugene, July 27, 1887
Mary, March 23, 1889-went to Butte Montana-married Timothy O'Sullivan
> had 3 children- Bernard married Betty Daly
> Lieut. Tim (Sox) of Anaconda, MT Killed on police duty Anaconda Feb 10,1985. He married Naomi Farthing.
Mary Agnes married Jerry Holm

Mark or Markie born Nov 15, 1890. He went to Butte and then Park City, UT where he was run over and killed
Michael, Aug 14, 1893. He too went to Butte and then Park City
Catherine (Katie) March 17, 1895. stayed in Ireland died in Kilmichael Feb 13th, 1970
Den Oct 29, 1896. Went to Butte then to Park City
Johanna, Dec 29, 1896
Patrick March 27, 1903, married Mary Saunders in New York
and finally James (Fitz) Nov 16, 1904. He stayed on the family farm.
> I know I have read people mentioning these names, There daughter who went Butte was known as Dursey Mary and lived at 112 E. Woolman, Butte, Mt.

>
This appears to be the family in the 1901 Irish census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... l/1095428/

This is the family in the 1911 Irish census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/p ... el/378689/

Notice that Mary, age 21, is still living in the household in 1911. However, in the 1930 U.S. census, her immigration date is given as 1904.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XC9M-VBV

If that is the true immigration date, then the Mary Sullivan of 112 E. Woolman can't be “Dursey Mary.”

Also, on her death certificate, as Wendy noted in a previous post, her father's name is given as “Jerry,” not “Eugene.”
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

Post by irishlass78 »

InterestedReader » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:18 pm

irishlass78 wrote:
Ok...found this on a genealogy board in response to Naomi Farthing's post. This is the link: http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... .1/mb.ashx

Bridget Sullivan/FallRiver,MA/Butte,MT
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Re: Bridget Sullivan/FallRiver,MA/Butte,MT
Chris (View posts)
Posted: 8 Sep 2001 6:03AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Sullivan
After watching a special on Lizzie Borden on tv, I was prompted to look into this more. I vaguely remember my paternal grandmother, Mildred (now deceased) mentioning that her mother was the maid for Lizzie Borden. I know my great grandmother's name was Bridget and I believe her husband name was John. I do remember my grandmother saying that her father was blind. I seem to remember that both of their surnames were Sullivan. My grandmother had 4 siblings - one of whose name was John. She had 2 brothers - neither of which I believe married. I know the family lived in Massachussetts, but never heard of the move to Montana as all information from Borden case seems to imply. I do remember her telling me that my great grandparents immigrated from Cork County. Would be interested in hearing more.


Do you think it's the following family?

If so they make a change.
This Bridget is living on Fall River's Second Srreet. She chose to make it her home.
Her husband was a Church Sexton
This Bridget waits til she's 70 for a rare burst of honesty about her age.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4X1-H27

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XQLS-4MJ

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MXTR-Z1K
Hi Wendy!

Unfortunately, the birth and immigration dates don't jibe with the info we have about Bridget.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Irish, according to the information posted below, Timothy ('"Bantry Tim") married Mary in Casper Wyoming in 1921. I am trying to find this marriage. Woo. Elusive, this one.

So did you see this stuff? Naomi again. She makes Timothy's parentage entirely different from the poster you cite. She's specific about the marriage to Mary so I hope you can find it.

My husband's father, Timothy O'Sullivan, was born in Bantry, Ireland 25Nov1891, son of Joseph or John O'Sullivan and Bridget McCarthy, and come to America as a young man. We have been unable to locate any other records of his life in Ireland. We know he was in Casper, WY in 1921 when he and Mary Sullivan of Co. Cork, Ireland were married. They settled in Butte, MT where he worked as a miner and died in 1937 after a mining accident. He was baptized in Cork in 1895 according to information on his marriage certificate. Where could I began my search for information on this man. Thank you. Naomi

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/thread.asp ... s.sullivan

...The only information that I have about Timothy O'Sullivan is that he was born in Bantry, Ireland 25Nov1891 and was baptized in Cork in 1895 (from his marriage certificate). His parents were Bridget McCarthy and Jno.O'Sullivan. I do not know what the abbreviation, Jno., stands for. It appeared that way on the marriage certificate. He siblings, all born in Ireland, included Lizzie (possibly Elizabeth), Kate, Patrick, John, Mike, Dan, Dennis, Ellie, and Mary Ann. He was known as "Bantry Tim" in Butte, MT where he worked as a miner. I know this isn't much to go by. I just hope someone may have a little information that I can use in my search. Thank you. Naomi

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... 68/mb.ashx

There may well be more on this thread of use to you. If you haven't already seen it all.

So far I only have Timothy's Draft card 1917 in Casper & what looks like his Da or other relative in Casper, in 1930

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K687-J25

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7WW-ZRM
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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1910 residence 412 Monroe St.
1916 residence 701 Alder
1939 Bridget Sullivan (wid. John M.) h. 701 Alder
1942 Mrs. Bridget Sullivan, 112 E. Woolman
The Mrs. Bridget Sullivan living at 112 E. Woolman in 1942 could be Timothy Sullivan's mother, Bridget (McCarthy) Sullivan.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Maiden name of Sullivan on marriages of both children. And birth of child...
Still can't find her marriage.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by InterestedReader » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:56 pm

Irish, according to the information posted below, Timothy ('"Bantry Tim") married Mary in Casper Wyoming in 1921. I am trying to find this marriage. Woo. Elusive, this one.

So did you see this stuff? Naomi again. She makes Timothy's parentage entirely different from the poster you cite. She's specific about the marriage to Mary so I hope you can find it.

My husband's father, Timothy O'Sullivan, was born in Bantry, Ireland 25Nov1891, son of Joseph or John O'Sullivan and Bridget McCarthy, and come to America as a young man. We have been unable to locate any other records of his life in Ireland. We know he was in Casper, WY in 1921 when he and Mary Sullivan of Co. Cork, Ireland were married. They settled in Butte, MT where he worked as a miner and died in 1937 after a mining accident. He was baptized in Cork in 1895 according to information on his marriage certificate. Where could I began my search for information on this man. Thank you. Naomi

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/thread.asp ... s.sullivan

...The only information that I have about Timothy O'Sullivan is that he was born in Bantry, Ireland 25Nov1891 and was baptized in Cork in 1895 (from his marriage certificate). His parents were Bridget McCarthy and Jno.O'Sullivan. I do not know what the abbreviation, Jno., stands for. It appeared that way on the marriage certificate. He siblings, all born in Ireland, included Lizzie (possibly Elizabeth), Kate, Patrick, John, Mike, Dan, Dennis, Ellie, and Mary Ann. He was known as "Bantry Tim" in Butte, MT where he worked as a miner. I know this isn't much to go by. I just hope someone may have a little information that I can use in my search. Thank you. Naomi

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... 68/mb.ashx

There may well be more on this thread of use to you. If you haven't already seen it all.

So far I only have Timothy's Draft card 1917 in Casper & what looks like his Da or other relative in Casper, in 1930

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K687-J25

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7WW-ZRM
Hi Wendy!

Great job finding this information! I've been looking for the marriage in Montana all this time! I'm trying to find Wyoming marriage records, but so far, no luck...drat!
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:
1910 residence 412 Monroe St.
1916 residence 701 Alder
1939 Bridget Sullivan (wid. John M.) h. 701 Alder
1942 Mrs. Bridget Sullivan, 112 E. Woolman
The Mrs. Bridget Sullivan living at 112 E. Woolman in 1942 could be Timothy Sullivan's mother, Bridget (McCarthy) Sullivan.
Because Timothy is dead. It does make sense.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote:
Hi Wendy!

Great job finding this information! I've been looking for the marriage in Montana all this time! I'm trying to find Wyoming marriage records, but so far, no luck...drat!
Me too, was looking in Montana. And the Wyoming marriages just aren't showing. I haven't a clue why not. But this marriage does exist because they've seen it. And if we find Mary's parents' names we'll know for sure a brother or sister for Alder Street Bridget.

(I don't even know where Wyoming is, up or down, so I suppose I'm going insane.)
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I'm completely confused. Now we're looking for information that it may have been Bridget Sullivan's niece Mary's mother in law that lived at 112 Woolman? Timothy Sullivan of 112 E. Woolman died of double pneumonia in 1937.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:I'm completely confused. Now we're looking for information that it may have been Bridget Sullivan's niece Mary's mother in law that lived at 112 Woolman? Timothy Sullivan of 112 E. Woolman died of double pneumonia in 1937.

Everywhere there's the account of 'Bridget's neice' at 112 E. W. St.
Problem is, we don't know for sure what made her a neice.
If we can establish both Mary's parents for sure, it gives us a way clearer picture of Bridget's parents. Their identity.
And by Bridget, I mean Alder St. Bridget.
It's peculiar, because though you see this 'neice' thing again and again, it's not at all clear who Mary's parents were. It's looking like a Jerry Sullivan and a Someone Sullivan née Sullivan.
And it's just possible that by identifying them, we begin to separate Alder St. Bridget from the Bordens' Bridget.

As for Mrs Bridget Sullivan being the mother-in-law - well, that so often happens when a woman is struggling - husband dead, & a houseful of children.

Please, where, KD, are the Wyoming Marriages?
My iPad here in London says no-one ever got married in Wyoming.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I found Timothy Sullivan's obit...here's the abbreviated version:

From: The Montana-Butte Standard, Tues. April 27, 1937:

"Timothy Sullivan Rites Are Held"

Many friends attended last rites for Timothy Sullivan yesterday morning. Solemn requiem high mass was celebrated at St. Mary church. The funeral proceeded to the church from the family home at 112 East Woolman Street.
Mr. Sullivan, a widely-known Butte miner, died in a local hospital after a short illness Wednesday afternoon...(names of priests officiating)...burial was in Holy Cross Cemetery...Pallbearers were Dennis Healy, Pete Leary, K.A. McLeod, John T. Sullivan, John Moriarity, and Gene Dudley...Military services were held at the graveside by the Veterans of Foreign Wars..(long list of members).
Sullivan was born in Ireland. He came to Butte 17 years ago and had worked in a number of mines here. He was 41 years old.


No mention of his wife or children or parents. The pallbearers mentioned "K.A. McLeod" and "John Moriarity" are probably the husbands of Bridget's nieces, Margaret and Kate.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by KGDevil » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:39 pm

I'm completely confused. Now we're looking for information that it may have been Bridget Sullivan's niece Mary's mother in law that lived at 112 Woolman? Timothy Sullivan of 112 E. Woolman died of double pneumonia in 1937.
Hi KG!

Sorry for the confusion. I just presented that as a possibility, since Timothy's mother was also Mrs. Bridget Sullivan. However, I don't know if she was still alive in 1942 or if she was even in Montana.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KD and Irish - His Draft card, because it's more human - and suggestive that his parents are also in the States, in 1917 he writes he is supprting them. Sheep-herding, in Natrona WY:
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A Quicker Way?

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Irish, do you have the book 'Who Were My Ancestors' by Riobard O'Dwyer? Apparently, Mary Sullivan's entire family is listed on pp. 256 and 290.

See
http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... 64/mb.ashx

I can't for the life of me find this 1921 Timothy & Mary marriage. Or any Wyoming marriage.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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by InterestedReader » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:58 pm

Irish, do you have the book 'Who Were My Ancestors' by Riobard O'Dwyer? Apparently, Mary Sullivan's entire family is listed on pp. 256 and 290.

See
http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... 64/mb.ashx

I can't for the life of me find this 1921 Timothy & Mary marriage. Or any Wyoming marriage.
Hi Wendy:

Sorry, I unfortunately don't have that book. And I'm having no luck finding the marriage record, either. It could be that Wyoming marriage records haven't been digitalized yet.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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irishlass78 wrote: And I'm having no luck finding the marriage record, either. It could be that Wyoming marriage records haven't been digitalized yet.

According to Ms Farthing: ~
The actual marriage certificate itself reads 'Jno. O'Sullivan' for Timothy's father.
I've tapped in this abbreviation, it corrects to 'John' in the results, and still won't find the marriage.

Most of us don't see the contemporary City Directories, we don't know where to find them. By revealing the pages, KDDevil again demonstrates real problems in the 'authorised' Bridget. The wording, the titles by which people went, by which people were styled - these Directory pages belong to an age highly conscious of such things. And it's a predominantly Catholic community. It seems to be a form of respect to acknowledge who is widowed. There are a lot. Pages and pages blackened by loss. Mining-widows fill Butte and Anaconda. Men vanish. And in the Directory widows are identified as widows. Why would John M.'s widow be called 'Mrs. Bridget Sullivan'?

Very likely she's Mrs Bridget (McCarthy) Sullivan, helping her son's family. Timothy died in 1937, leaving Mary with children to feed. Mary herself would die relatively young of stomach cancer. Decades later people seize on a jigsaw-piece 'Mrs Bridget Sullivan', see a family conection, and Bridget is packed off to Anaconda to 'live with her neice'. Well, every Sullivan in the place is somehow related to the next.
Wrong titles.... a death-certificate with wrong parents, and wrong number of years' residency....Anaconda... Anomalies, which register dimly, but within the authorised version of Bridget facts can't be further checked.


Irish, perhaps this is of interest to you ~ O'Dwyer ~
Beara's Children
http://bearaschildren.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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I actually found a family tree that someone had started on ancestry with a "Timothy or Bantry Tim Sullivan" who married a "Mary or Dursey Mary O'Sullivan". The only source they had listed for the family of Timothy and Mary was the 1930 Census and the ancestry family tree information they had found in other family trees. Their information is only as good as someone else's research. And maybe the someone else's information is only as good as someone else's also. Who can know how reliable it is?

In this tree Timothy was born in Ireland in 1890, parents and siblings are not known. He married Mary in Butte in 1922.

Their Mary was born in Kilmichael, Dursey Island, Alihies Parish to parents Eugene Sullivan (son of Mark O'Sullivan and Anna Newman 1849 -1931) and Cait Owen (daughter Eugene Owen O'Sullivan and Margret Leary1862-1932 ). My question is how is Cait Owen the daughter O'Sullivan/Sullivan parents? Mary's death date is unknown. Siblings Timothy, Daniel, Eugene, Mark, Bridgid, Michael, Catherine, Denis, Johanna, Patrick, James Fitz O'Sullivan (now we have a Fitz O'Sullivan). Children Bernard Sullivan (1923- 2001), Mary Agnes Sullivan (1926-2011), and Timothy "Sox" Sullivan (1935 - 1985.) The information for Bernard Sullivan is private. Mary Agnes Sullivan married Gerald "Jerry" Holm. Timothy Sullivan is spouse unknown.

Keep in mind all of this information is with no known sources cited except the 1930 Census.
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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oops. sorry. a lively pet.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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If the theory is that it was Bridget Mccarthy Sullivan living at 112 East Woolman the straight forward approach would be to look for a death certificate for Bridget Mccarthy Sullivan.
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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oops. spaniel jumping about.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:If the theory is that it was Bridget Mccarthy Sullivan living at 112 East Woolman the straight forward approach would be to look for a death certificate for Bridget Mccarthy Sullivan.
I did. But haven't found it yet.
It was my impression Mrs B. @ E. W. St. was only ever found in the Directory, not on the Census i.e. she wasn't there long enough to hit a Census. I can't see her on the 1940.

In any case, it doesn't answer 'Just Who was Mary's 'aunt'?'
.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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KGDevil wrote:I actually found a family tree that someone had started on ancestry with a "Timothy or Bantry Tim Sullivan" who married a "Mary or Dursey Mary O'Sullivan". The only source they had listed for the family of Timothy and Mary was the 1930 Census and the ancestry family tree information they had found in other family trees.
Isn't this the one Irish was considering and rejecting last night? She cut & pastes it a short way above. I know it appears with those other genealogy postings in 2000 either of Naomi Farthing or someone she's dialoguing with, somewhere around here:

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... 68/mb.ashx


And like you, I couldn't make head nor tail of that mess. How is Cait Owen Bridget's sister? A lot else is just screwy, it's obvious even to me they're the wrong bunch.

KGDevil wrote:In this tree Timothy was born in Ireland in 1890, parents and siblings are not known. He married Mary in Butte in 1922.
Hm. Naomi Farthing says not. And she's got the certificate. She says it's 1921 in Casper WY.
On Family Search Wyoming Marriages end in 1920! I'm trying to find a Wyoming database. If you know where there is one, it would help.

This is the spelling on the Marriage Certificate.

TIMOTHY SULLIVAN son of JNO. O'SULLIVAN and BRIDGET McCARTHY SULLIVAN
marries
MARY whose father was JERRY SULLIVAN and her mother seems also to be a SULLIVAN, but who?

They marry in Casper, WYOMING, in 1921.

Timothy was born in October 1896 and Mary on the 19th of March 1902.

We're looking for Mary's mother, to see how she fits with Alder Street Bridget. She's supposed to be her sister.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Irish, could this be young Mary, with her family in Connecticut?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKK2-1CJ

If so, which would be the more likely? That Bridget was Jeremiah Sullivan's sister or Catherine Sullivan's?
(Alder Street Bridget, this is.)
I'm looking for a marriage to check Catherine's maiden name.

...Actually, I take that back about Mary being consistent in her stated age. She's hopping about all over the shop. See, in the 1930 census Mary is 40, Timothy is 40, and they married, they say, when they were both 32...

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XC9M-VBJ

If she's making herself older then heaven knows why - neither he nor she seem naturalised even in 1930, so did folks make themselves older somehow for that? In the 1940 Census she's up by a modest increase to 42. :roll:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBQ8-6ZW

At the birth of son Bernard in 1922, & when they were at 113 Bell St., she was 26. At Mary Agnes' birth in 1926, she was 30. At Timothy's birth in 1931, she was 35. OK.
On her death certificate in 1951 she's aged 49, and her birth-date is given as 19th March 1902, in Ireland. I had been taking that to be reliable!

Irish, can you see her birth-record using the above? I am trying, but this woman is again defeating me.
We can't have the Marriage. Natrona Wyoming turns out to be like the rest of Wyoming. You can go see stuff on microfiche ~ in Wyoming. Or write and apply for it.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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All we know for sure is that Naomi's husband Timothy Joseph Sullivan was the son of Mary Sullivan of 112 East Woolman Street. On Timothy's birth certificate Mary's occupation is listed as housewife. She listed she had this occupation for 10 years. Married ten years so that validates a 1921 marriage. Available vital records do not show a mother for Mary. Father only, Jerry, which is not helpful. Jno was a common abbreviation for John at the time. If you look through the city directory pages you see it alot. I've looked through the Western Marriage Index which includes Wyoming beyond 1920 on Ancestry with no results. Obituaries and marriage announcements would be the next route. Or the City Clerk and local library of Natrona county. Libraries can be a treasure trove for genealogy hunters. My local library has a genealogy department dedicated to storing vital information and helping people locate family members from our area.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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This will sound deeply daft but I've only just looked at a map to understand the distance between Montana and Massachusetts. It means shifting amost the entire width of the continent. (No, I hadn't realised.) Clearly, if you've crossed the Atlantic to escape your community's destruction, a bit extra won't seem daunting. All the same, how often did Irishwomen settle in one State then resettle so far from the first? Was it just something they did & not thought unusual?
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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InterestedReader wrote:This will sound deeply daft but I've only just looked at a map to understand the distance between Montana and Massachusetts. It means shifting amost the entire width of the continent. (No, I hadn't realised.) Clearly, if you've already crossed the Atlantic to escape dire poverty a bit extra won't seem daunting. All the same, how often did Irishwomen settle in one state then resettle so far from the first? Was it just something they did & not thought unusual?

I think they resettled in areas where they had family or friends. Bridget lived in Newport, Rhode Island with a friend named Patrick Sullivan. She moved to South Bethlehem, Pennsylvania next where she claims she had family. We know she had a cousin, Patrick Harrington, in Fall River, Massachusetts. It seems a little random but she was moving to be near people she knew. But never one peep about Montana. Connecting the dots between Massachusetts and South Bethlehem would be interesting. It could shed light on family connections. I had been working on that but got sidetracked chasing the ghost Bridget in Montana.

I haven't looked at any more newspapers or records at the moment. I went back to my other research for now. But I did look at the directories for Casper, Wyoming out of curiousity to see if Mary, Timothy or Timothy's parents were there. I have the 1920-1 and 1922 directories.
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Re: Bridget's Whereabouts

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Is this Bridget's sister?

This is from Bridget's genealogy by O'Dwyer:
Cait (or Catherine), b. March 1862, married Eugene O'Sullivan, son of Mark O'Sullivan and Anna Newman, Kilmichael, Dursey Island. (LBQ, Vol. III, Number 2, April, 1996). https://archive.org/stream/lizzieborden ... 9/mode/2up

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/t ... 1309259405

http://www.bhs.ie/coppermine/displayima ... um=2&pos=7
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Isn't this weird?

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https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MM5W-WC5

In 1900, a Bridget and John Sullivan are living at 704 Alder Street.
I cannot see a number 701, as if it don't exist yet - just a lot waiting to be built. Lot 701 must be pretty adjacent.

In 1910 Bridget and John Sullivan are still there at 704. But still no 701 built as yet.

This Bridget and John Sullivan I guess are too old to be the ones we've been chasing but my whiskers tell me they must be related.

Two John and Bridget Sullivans, right next to each other.

I have genealogy burn-out :eek: .
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