Did Bridget say it..?
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:18 am
...Did Bridget say "Both Bordens are dead'" before she should know both are dead? Before Abby is found?
We left this by explaining it as Coggeshall telling Officer Albert Chase some three weeks after the event - as being third party hearsay kind of thing. We left it as originating in the Witness Statements. That discussion was appended to another thread, so this is a new thread in case there is more to consider here.
Chase interviewed Coggeshall August 24th. Witness Statements:
Alexander B. Coggeshall, a stable keeper on Second street, left his stable at 11.10 to go to diner. He stopped to talk with Mrs Buffington, and she told him that there had been trouble in the next house. Just then Bridget Sullivan came out of the house on the run, and went over to Southard H. Miller’s house, and went in. Soon after Mr. Miller came to the door, and called him over, and said “Here Alex, I want you to listen to what this girl says,” Bridget then told them that Mr. Borden and his wife had both been murdered. Mr. Coggeshall then went to dinner at Mrs. Tripp’s No. 80 Second street, and he told her of the murder. It was then 11.20 by the clock in the restaurant.
But there is more.
We also have a direct statement made by Southard Miller himself.
Moulton Batchelder of the District Police interviewed several people 'in reference to the relatives of Lizzie Borden' - I believe the issue was heredity insanity - and sent these interviews to Hosiah Knowlton (HK102).
S. H. Miller of 93 Second St. Fall River opp. the Borden House.
...Bridget the Servant girl came running into my house and said both was dead just then a man was passing. I called him and told Bridget to tell him what she told me. She did and that man was a witness. I did not want anything to do with it and I did not go near the house.
A little earlier he says:
I was not a witness at the trial. I did not intend to be.
This document sent to Knowlton is dated November 24 1892 when the Trial has not yet taken place and Southard Miller must be speaking of the Inquest. He had known Andrew Borden since Borden was a young man, he says he was Borden's first employer, and he wants nothing to do with any trial, just as he wanted nothing to do with the crime-scene that August day. Someone else would have to be a witness to Bridget's running into his house.
As a consequence, was it overlooked? That odd wording of Bridget's he reports hearing? This is before Abby is found. This is at a moment, a stage in the events when according to her testimony - in fact according to the testimony of Bridget, Lizzie, Addie Churchill, Alice Russell, Dr Bowen and more - Bridget should not yet know Abby Borden is dead because the corpse is yet to be found. And according to her own testimony, isn't this after Lizzie told her Mrs Borden is out on a visit? After being told she's out, before she knows she's dead?
If we look at Coggeshall's interview in the Witness Statements, we find that Southard Miller had Bridget say it all again to Coggeshall. 'Bridget then told them that Mr. Borden and his wife had both been murdered.' In Southard Miller's interview with Batchelder, the same thing. 'I called him and told Bridget to tell him what she told me. She did and that man was a witness.' It's wrong to say Coggeshall learned this third-party. Coggeshall was a direct witness, as much of a witness as Southard Miller. He and Miller were on the same spot in the one moment hearing Bridget's words. In front of two witnesses, then, Bridget said both the Bordens were dead.
Indeed the way Southard Miller tells it, when he has Bridget repeat herself to Coggeshall it's as if he purposively intends to make him a witness.
Again, one could argue that Southard Miller's memory would be faulty by November of that year. But it is his recollection of what Bridget came running to tell him, just as it is Coggeshall's own recollection in August. One could say that hindsight upped the murder-count from one to two - but now we have two individuals who'd be making the error. Two individuals who agree, whether interviewed in August or November.
On the murder morning itself Bridget goes running into the Miller house a little after 11.10, according to Coggeshall, who's 'just then stopped to talk with Mrs Buffington.' I really would like to check everyone's account and see if there is basic agreement as to the time Bridget went running into that house opposite.
You might be thinking, Well where does it take us if she did say it. Any reasonable person might assume there were two murders, any distressed person might fear both parties to be dead... But Bridget is recorded as saying it is so, not that she fears it is so. This would demonstrate that a little after 11.10 that day Bridget Sullivan believed Abby Borden to be in the house - not just at that moment but all along.
We left this by explaining it as Coggeshall telling Officer Albert Chase some three weeks after the event - as being third party hearsay kind of thing. We left it as originating in the Witness Statements. That discussion was appended to another thread, so this is a new thread in case there is more to consider here.
Chase interviewed Coggeshall August 24th. Witness Statements:
Alexander B. Coggeshall, a stable keeper on Second street, left his stable at 11.10 to go to diner. He stopped to talk with Mrs Buffington, and she told him that there had been trouble in the next house. Just then Bridget Sullivan came out of the house on the run, and went over to Southard H. Miller’s house, and went in. Soon after Mr. Miller came to the door, and called him over, and said “Here Alex, I want you to listen to what this girl says,” Bridget then told them that Mr. Borden and his wife had both been murdered. Mr. Coggeshall then went to dinner at Mrs. Tripp’s No. 80 Second street, and he told her of the murder. It was then 11.20 by the clock in the restaurant.
But there is more.
We also have a direct statement made by Southard Miller himself.
Moulton Batchelder of the District Police interviewed several people 'in reference to the relatives of Lizzie Borden' - I believe the issue was heredity insanity - and sent these interviews to Hosiah Knowlton (HK102).
S. H. Miller of 93 Second St. Fall River opp. the Borden House.
...Bridget the Servant girl came running into my house and said both was dead just then a man was passing. I called him and told Bridget to tell him what she told me. She did and that man was a witness. I did not want anything to do with it and I did not go near the house.
A little earlier he says:
I was not a witness at the trial. I did not intend to be.
This document sent to Knowlton is dated November 24 1892 when the Trial has not yet taken place and Southard Miller must be speaking of the Inquest. He had known Andrew Borden since Borden was a young man, he says he was Borden's first employer, and he wants nothing to do with any trial, just as he wanted nothing to do with the crime-scene that August day. Someone else would have to be a witness to Bridget's running into his house.
As a consequence, was it overlooked? That odd wording of Bridget's he reports hearing? This is before Abby is found. This is at a moment, a stage in the events when according to her testimony - in fact according to the testimony of Bridget, Lizzie, Addie Churchill, Alice Russell, Dr Bowen and more - Bridget should not yet know Abby Borden is dead because the corpse is yet to be found. And according to her own testimony, isn't this after Lizzie told her Mrs Borden is out on a visit? After being told she's out, before she knows she's dead?
If we look at Coggeshall's interview in the Witness Statements, we find that Southard Miller had Bridget say it all again to Coggeshall. 'Bridget then told them that Mr. Borden and his wife had both been murdered.' In Southard Miller's interview with Batchelder, the same thing. 'I called him and told Bridget to tell him what she told me. She did and that man was a witness.' It's wrong to say Coggeshall learned this third-party. Coggeshall was a direct witness, as much of a witness as Southard Miller. He and Miller were on the same spot in the one moment hearing Bridget's words. In front of two witnesses, then, Bridget said both the Bordens were dead.
Indeed the way Southard Miller tells it, when he has Bridget repeat herself to Coggeshall it's as if he purposively intends to make him a witness.
Again, one could argue that Southard Miller's memory would be faulty by November of that year. But it is his recollection of what Bridget came running to tell him, just as it is Coggeshall's own recollection in August. One could say that hindsight upped the murder-count from one to two - but now we have two individuals who'd be making the error. Two individuals who agree, whether interviewed in August or November.
On the murder morning itself Bridget goes running into the Miller house a little after 11.10, according to Coggeshall, who's 'just then stopped to talk with Mrs Buffington.' I really would like to check everyone's account and see if there is basic agreement as to the time Bridget went running into that house opposite.
You might be thinking, Well where does it take us if she did say it. Any reasonable person might assume there were two murders, any distressed person might fear both parties to be dead... But Bridget is recorded as saying it is so, not that she fears it is so. This would demonstrate that a little after 11.10 that day Bridget Sullivan believed Abby Borden to be in the house - not just at that moment but all along.