Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Has anyone else read The Cases That Haunt Us, by John Douglas and Mark Olshaker? I decided to give it a try, given Douglas's background.

I went into it thinking Lizzie didn't do it...this book makes a good case that she did. My problems were with the prosecutors' case. 1-the lack of direct evidence and 2- the timeline they laid out. I kept thinking, these are all guys! They don't wear the layers that women wore during the time! They really think she kept changing into and out of dresses and had enough time to wash up and hide the evidence?! I had also felt that the gilt traces in Abby's skull... I didn't like how it wasn't brought up in court. It made it look like the prosecutors had something to hide. (As David Kent's book Forty Whacks suggested.)

Added bonus: it has the floor plans not only of the first and second floor of the Borden house, but the basement and attic! I haven't seen these before, and since rereading some library books on the case, I had hoped to find them somewhere. Who'd a thought it would be in this book? :)

That book is great and the chapter on Lizzie makes some good points. I've been studying the case for a long time and I'm not positive that Lizzie did it, but that is mostly because I have gotten to know her through the years, and I actually like her, so I don't WANT her to be the murderer. Anyway, regarding "The Cases That Haunt Us," I enjoyed it, including the chapter on Lizzie. But I'm still unsure if she's guilty or innocent.

Ginger LWS wrote: I kept thinking, these are all guys! They don't wear the layers that women wore during the time! They really think she kept changing into and out of dresses and had enough time to wash up and hide the evidence?! I had also felt that the gilt traces in Abby's skull... I didn't like how it wasn't brought up in court. It made it look like the prosecutors had something to hide.

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Do you think they even considered hair-pins? Just everyday hairpins were dipped in some kind of cheap gilding metal which was easily dislodged, and one can imagine it driven into the skull along with the weapon blow.

Good point. BUT ... didn't they claim that none of the hatchets found in the Borden home were brand new, thus eliminating them as the murder weapon? Gilt would only be found on brand new hatchets. And I agree ... the defense should've brought this up during the trial.

Yes, I have read The Cases That Haunt Us by John Douglas and Mark Olshaker. There are several threads on the forum here regarding that book, which you may find interesting to read. Here is one thread which I think will answer a lot of questions you may have about John Douglas’ book. The topic thread is tiled, Thoughts On Reading John Douglas/Cases That Haunt Us: http://tinyurl.com/yc65r9co

My thoughts regarding the gilt found in Abby’s skull is in the thread titled, Exhumation / Autopsy: http://tinyurl.com/ya9spzy4

So the flesh was removed from the skulls in August 1892, and Draper first notices the gilt in May 1893...
Wouldn't any gilt deposit detach in the boiling process?

I'm sure it would. It seems that someone must've noticed the gilt in the very beginning.

PattiG, I do that too. I remember that he said that his profile is only as good as the info he's provided. So I do have my moments... like the small amount of time between Andrew coming home and his body being found. Not to mention the eerie similarities between A&A's murders and the murder that happened just as Lizzie's grand jury trial started.

Interested reader re: hairpins, good point. But they would have had to be new, wouldn't they?

twinsrwe thank you, I'll look for those threads and those links.

Ginger LWS wrote:
Interested reader re: hairpins, good point. But they would have had to be new, wouldn't they?

No, they wouldn't need to be new, the hairpins . In the 1890s there were gilt effect hairpins, and they would stay that way with normal use. I suppose they were electro-plated, so as not to corrode. The cheap ones were black, made by a 'japanning' process, cheaper to manufacture - they were thought ugly because they showed so much in most hair colours.

There's one hairpin visible in the hair detached from Abby Borden.