Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I know daddy warbucks was a tight wad, zo don't thonk there was much of s Christmas. But I was wondering what lizzie and emma did after mom and dad were dead. Were they reserved or did they really do it up .You know decorstions and thr like.

I'd be interested in hearing about this, too. I would think habits would be hard to break. I picture them having a tree, with decorations. I would think minimal decorations for the inside of the house. Did people back then decorate the outside of their houses?

Christmas was ruled a legal holiday in 1894, so, I'm guessing that was not observed in the Borden household when the girls were growing up.

As far as I know, there isn't any documentation for how Lizzie and Emma celebrated Christmas after it was made a legal holiday. The same thing goes for how, or if, they decorated Maplecroft.

However, I found several web sites that have all kinds of information on the Christmas holiday:

History of Christmas: http://tinyurl.com/y96wrpo

Christmas History: http://tinyurl.com/2gyg3yx

The Origins of 12 Christmas Traditions: http://tinyurl.com/ybel58yb

10 Crazy Christmas Traditions That You Won't Believe Are Real: http://tinyurl.com/ybcy7g5j

Most of How We Celebrate Christmas Began During the 1800s: http://tinyurl.com/y85zzawc

Christmas in 19th Century America: http://tinyurl.com/m7b68ty

Christmas in America During the 19th Century: http://tinyurl.com/ycrrn8as

Christmas with ... Irving, Thackeray, and Dickens: http://tinyurl.com/ydyf38kb

Christmas Traditions, Past and Present: http://tinyurl.com/ydgdfmg8

The History of Christmas Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/y7dk9k2x

A very marry Lixzie Borden Christmas?

Don't you mean "A berry murry Dizzie Bordem Christnas? "

MysteryReader wrote:I'd be interested in hearing about this, too. I would think habits would be hard to break. I picture them having a tree, with decorations. I would think minimal decorations for the inside of the house. Did people back then decorate the outside of their houses?

I'm not even sure they would even have a tree and decorations as tight asAndrew was. I think maybe after Andrew and Abbey died, Lizzie, especially Lizzie, snd Emma might have done decorating.

snokkums wrote: ...
I'm not even sure they would even have a tree and decorations as tight asAndrew was. I think maybe after Andrew and Abbey died, Lizzie, especially Lizzie, snd Emma might have done decorating.

Robin, I'm sorry to go off topic here, but I am really curious as to why you believe Andrew J. Borden was tight with his money when it came to his family; you also referred to him as ‘daddy warbucks’ in your previous post. Granted, we are all entitled to our opinions, but you have consistently referred to Andrew in this manner, and I am just wondering why?

It's seems I've always read about all his business dealings and he didnt seem tobe very forthcoming with money. Always seemed you had to pry open the wallet. I could be wrong though.

I have this friend of mine.

Grumpiest and cheapest miser you ever want to meet. When you go out with him for coffee he always uses the men's room when it's time to pay. Never had a new car. His building projects around the house are done with used lumber. He was in need of a washing machine and as luck had it he found a working machine at the local junkyard. Along with some used, discarded wainscoting he used for his porch ceiling. The shingles on his roof don't match very well because he got a bargain on shingles from different salvage houses.

At work he was the butt of jokes due to his stingy habits. Some disliked him for it. The only thing he does well is eat good food and drink fine whisky.

He is retired now. But when he was working he made 60 to 70 thousand a year, and brags that with his investments and pension he makes much more than that in his retirement.

He also has two daughters. Only one is really his. But he treats them like Gold. Carries the mortgage on one daughter and pays for his 2nd daughters apartment. He stocks their shelves with food. Buys their kids clothing. He's a hunter and has filled their freezers with rabbit and venison. When his first daughter's freezer could no longer hold any more meat, because it was full, he got her another additional freezer. A free standing one. Used one, you see, but nonetheless.

Lesson?

Just because you are cheap and hated by the public does not mean you are not generous with your wife, sons, daughters, and family. And you can't believe everything you read.

But it seems he was sort of like that. I mean he had the money to live "on the hill", but lived middle class, had to go to the out house because of no indoor toilet or something like that. I guess maybe he was just frugal or something. Just that I always read yhat he eas just stingy

But it seems he was sort of like that. I mean he had the money to live "on the hill", but lived middle class, had to go to the out house because of no indoor toilet or something like that. I guess maybe he was just frugal or something. Just that I always read yhat he eas just stingy

I don' t think he cared much about living "on the hill" or status...I think he was a practical man wanting to live close to his businesses and town center...many of the wealthy people I know , they really look after their pennies !
I often think about things like that...how they celebrated Christmas ...if they felt guilty or not....if they missed their parents...or if all that wealth is what they really wanted...ahhhh if we only knew!

On the contrary.

When Andrew bought 66 Second Street (later to become 92, later to become 230), he had two water faucets installed in the home. One in the kitchen and one in the barn. He converted the fireplace-heated home to steam heat, installing radiators. He paid for his daughter Emma to attend college, Wheaten, for a year and a half, room and board. He paid for Lizzie to go on her grand tour to Europe for 19 weeks. He purchased half of the 4th street house for his wife's family, then gave the Ferry Street house to Emma and Lizzie. When they decided they didn't like being landlords, he bought it back from them for $5,000. In addition, his wife had a maid.

And these are just the things he did we have evidence for.

Doesn't sound like a penny pincher to me.

Remember, most of those miser stories come from the newspapers, which were full of gossip and half/fake truths.

I think he was careful with his money, as he was a self-made man. But I would not say he was stingy.

I just think Andrew was very frugal. More so with outsiders, not so much with his family.

Lets analyze this.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, a dollar today was worth 25 dollars in the 1890s. Round figures, you understand.

When Borden purchased the house back from his daughters, he gave them 5000 dollars. In today's money that is 125,000 dollars. Each daughter received around 75 thousand. When was the last time your parents gave you 75 grand.

When Borden died his self worth was somewhere north of 300,000 dollars. That would be 7,500,000 in today's money.

Good point about how yesterday's money values equate to today's values. Seems then it was quite a bit that he gave to the girls. But it would have been nice to live on the hill if you get my drift. The media of yesterday has put ideas in our heads that are hard to shake, and it hasn't changed much considering how our thinking is affected by the media today which has even more power than ever.

I wish there was a like button for posts! I like this one. Maybe something I should add?

I agree, Stefani. A like button would be awesome.

Welcome to the forum, JosephKane.