Rebecca Pittman's book

[jcurrie]

I've just been ploughing my way through Ms Pittman's book - all 800 pages of it! I'm just wondering whether anyone else on this forum has read it.

Ms Pittman raises several new points. Firstly, she believes the reason why Lizzie was free of blood was because she put another dress over the one she was originally wearing, and only got rid of it by burning it on the Sunday (observed by Alice Russell). This seems incredible, because she could have passed out with the heat.

Secondly, her original intention was to poison her father and stepmother by putting arsenic in the milk, but it didn't work. I was a bit sceptical about this, but apparently a couple of farmhands at the house in Swansea were also taken ill. Remember, Lizzie had accompanied her sister as far as New Bedford and stayed there a couple of days before returning home. It was in New Bedford, Ms Pittman believes, that she could have purchased the arsenic. It was commonly bought over the counter for killing vermin and, of course, it was commonly used in paint and cosmetics. According to Ms P. she put some arsenic in the family's milk without the family's knowledge. It was Maggie's habit of transferring the family's milk from the large container into more manageable bottles. Remember, both Andrew and Abby were ill a couple of hours after their dinner on the Tuesday night. We know that poor Bridget was ill on the Thursday morning, which would have been at least 8 - 10 hours after drinking the milk.

I know nothing about how long arsenic takes to take effect, but it seems strange to me that if Bridget had drunk milk on the Tuesday night she would have become sick earlier. According to Bridget, she had drunk the last of Tuesday's milk on the Wednesday night, as she said she didn't like tea. (Imagine, an Irish girl who didn't like tea!).

If there is anyone on this forum who knows anything about poisons I would be grateful for any comments.

I must say this book could do with some judicious pruning. Do we really need to have photos of the town hall clock and of women's wear? Also, there was a quite unnecessary chapter on the so-called haunting of Maplecroft, the house where the sisters moved to.

I would appreciate any feedback from other forum members who have read the bookj

[camgarsky4]

Jcurrie -- why does she suspect arsenic when Lizzie appears to have been trying to purchase prussic acid (cyanide) when she was in New Bedford and then again the day before the murders. Arsenic was the backup plan?

Since the Borden's didn't visit Swansea in the days before the murder, how does the farmhands getting ill come into play?

Did a quick google....arsenic takes longer to kill. Cyanide almost immediate. If easier to procure, I guess it could have been the second choice.

[jcurrie]

Thanks for prompt response, camgarsky4. According to Pittman, Lizzie was under the impression that her parents were planning to visit the Swansea farm and only learned when she returned to Fall River that they had postponed their visit. How Pittman learned of the farmhands' illness I don't know.

Thanks for info re arsenic. That rules out arsenic poisoning affecting Andrew and Abby. Bridget's illness we don't know about. I guess it was the warmed over fish that did it. We do know that the M.E. analysed not only their stomach contents, but samples of their hair follicles. No evidence of any poison; the same with the milk. However, it is Pittman's assertion that the ME (I think his name was Dolan) took away the wrong milk bottles for analysis - Thursday's milk and not Tuesdays or Wednesdays, so wouldn't have found any arsenic. (He should have analysed that disgusting mutton broth instead!).

[camgarsky4]

On its own, I would assume Abby was just being paranoid, but wow, what an extraordinary coincidence. Abby worries about being poisoned the very morning her step-daughter attempts to purchase Prussic Acid and 24 hours before she is murdered.

The coincidences continue when the 3 pharmacy gents tell police that Lizzie tried to buy the prussic acid BEFORE they had any idea that poisoning was a subplot of the murders. That irony is one of the biggest reasons I believe she did try to buy the poison that day and that she also tried when in New Bedford.

[phineas]

I’ve read this book twice. I really enjoyed it. It’s filled with plausible ideas. The idea of wearing the murder dress under her other dress for days on end was entertaining. I just bought a Rebello online (signed by the authors at the house!) and he says the prosecution during the inquest “made an attempt to show Lizzie may have had the dress under the pink wrapper.”

Emma shot down the idea Lizzie could have been wearing it. She is asked by Jennings about it at the trial - if it would have been visible when lying down on the sofa. She said it would have shown had she wearing wearing it. Not the most neutral witness of course.

[camgarsky4]

JCurrie -- just found this thread from a few years ago when you first mentioned the Pittman book! You and I bantered a little back in 2020!

I just read the Loveland, Colorado newspaper article about the book back when it was first published. The authors mention they believe they identified relatives from the Borden side of the family as a couple of the men seen near the Borden house on August 4th. These gentlemen being at the house was somehow connected to Andrew planning to transfer ownership of one of the Swansea farms to Abby.

What was your take on this theory?

[jcurrie]

Thank you, camgarsky4. Actually, I was just about to start a new topic on another of Ms Pittman's claims about the mysterious men who were observed near the Borden house on the 4th August. You will remember that three witnesses testified that they had seen a pale faced man waiting near the Borden house. A Dr Handy was driving along Second Street and described this man; Two women, Mrs Delia Manley and Mrs. Sarah Hart, also described seeing this man whilst they were admiring some pond lilies on a cart, also just by the Borden house. This is covered in Pittman's book in Chapter 13. Pittman identifies this man as one Joseph Chatterton, possibly the brother of Jim Chatterton, who (it is alleged) called at the Borden house the previous Monday and was wearing light coloured clothing and baseball shoes.

I was frankly sceptical about this assertion. Certainly the Chatterton brothers did have a connection - their aunt Elvira Chatterton was married to a Charles E Morse. Joseph (1861 - 1935) and Jim (1864 - 1944) were the sons of Joseph Chatterton Senior (1839 - 1915). Charles's father was called George, so I wondered if he was related to Anthony (Lizzie's grandfather). Sure enough, Anthony had four siblings, two of whom were Charles and George (twins). George (1808-1877) was listed in the census as a jeweller. Charles (1833-1906) was also in the jewellery business, but as a salesman.

However, Charles and Elvira were living in Hoboken, New Jersey. John Morse, as we know, spent most of his life in Iowa as a farmer and horse breeder.

If the above is correct, John and Charles were cousins. We don't know if they were close or not. Ms Pittman alleges that Joseph Chatterton Snr was John's uncle, which is nonsense. At best, Charles was the brothers' uncle by marriage.

So, if the Chatterton brothers were involved, why did they not come forward to identify themselves? They were supposedly hired to drive Abby to the bank so that the Swansea property could be put in her name. This was supposed to be kept secret from Lizzie (surprise, surprise!). The police searched in vain for this mystery man, but to no avail.

Which beggars the question - why did Andrew not arrange for this transfer of the Swansea property take place whilst Lizzie was away for a few days? Emma, of course, was also away at the same time.

[camgarsky4]

Thanks JC. I was starting to get intrigued enough to buy her book, but what you describe above sound a bit like the plot of Mrs. Lincoln (medical theories aside). I don't understand why Abby leaving the house would require so much drama to require a special pickup plan to avoid catching Lizzie's attention. Did she never leave the house? Of course she did.

When the 'note' was discussed during the inquest, no one (including Lizzie) implied or said....."I don't know why anyone sent a note summoning Abby, because everyone knows that Abby never leaves the house because she was so obese and can't walk!!" She walked up and down those back stairs each and every day. If she was basically immobile, AJB likely would have converted the parlor to a bedroom.

I'm sure she and Lizzie didn't have sign in and out time cards for when they left the house (sarcasm alert). Why couldn't/wouldn't she just go with AJB downtown? Abby was 'only' 200 lbs. She wasn't some bed ridden 400 lb behemoth. It was less than 5 minute walk to the banks. I think the whole "Abby was the human incarnation of Jabba the Hutt" myth is right there with the "Andrew was worse than scrooge" labeling. Zero validation on either front. The facts only tell us that Abby was heavy and Andrew was tight. Nothing more, nothing less.

Pittman is also similar to Lincoln with the Swansea farm title transfer issue. Of course, Lincoln tells us that her grandfather heard that tidbit in the banking circles, but how does Pittman substantiate that key motive claim?

Did some cursory searches for the names Joseph and Jim (James) Chatterton. A man named Joseph Chatterton was listed in the 1892 Fall River city directory living on Brightman Road. Nothing of interest in Newspapers.com except that there was a baseball player out of Lynn, Ma named Jim Chatterton.

Why didn't the bank just send a carriage to pick up Abby? Or someone from the livery stable across the street from the Borden's. Just tell them to keep their mouths shut.

Any chance you could look to see if the author provided a source for the information that a person visited the Borden's the prior Monday wearing baseball shoes? Was the Monday August 1 or July 25th?

Sounds like this author did massive research....so I might still buy the book. Do you recommend it?

[Kat]

References to “baseball shoes” or “russet shoes” as to possible sources:
(My guess would be online “Sams”.)

BOOK
THE GIRL IN THE HOUSE OF HATE
By
Charles and Louise Samuels
1953 – Gold Medal Books

Page 17
…“ Meanwhile, imaginative people were flooding the police with accounts of the wild-eyed men, foreign-looking strangers -- one was observed sitting on the Borden fence, wearing baseball shoes -- they'd seen lurking about the Borden house, peering into windows and tapping on cellar doors. The most widely publicized of these was a "wild man" whom Dr. Benjamin J. Handy reported seeing moving about and acting strangely. This wild man turned out to be Mike the Soldier, a local rumpot who told the police that he had looked wild that day because he was getting over a long drunk.”
….
_______________________________________-

ONLINE ARTICLE
“LIZZIE BORDEN UNLOCKED!”
By Ed Sams

(Within Chapter 8- no page numbers)
“Here is the front-page story in the New York Times from August 7, 1892:

A horse and buggy turned into Second Street out of Spring, and stopped in front of the Borden residence. A man who is employed nearby sat in his buggy almost opposite and facing south. He had ample opportunity and time to take a careful look at the vehicle, and the circumstance of the two strange men calling at the Borden house made an impression on his mind, which he remembers distinctly. One of the men got out of the buggy and rang the doorbell. As he stood there the observer saw him plainly, and remembers that his description was that of a man about twenty-five years of age, with sallow complexion, soft hat, dark trousers, with a wide strop of dark material down the leg and russet, or baseball shoes. He was 5 feet 9 inches high. Mr. Borden opened the door and the man was admitted. The man who entered remained about ten minutes and then came out with his hat in his hand. The police assiduously tracked down the whereabouts of all these suspicious characters: the stranger in the buggy turned out to be a lost tourist who missed his train connection, the Portuguese was a Swede, and Dr. Handy's "wild-eyed" man was a tramp called Mike the Soldier who suffered from DTs (Pearson, 219-220).”
_____________________________________________

BOOK of NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS
The Lizzie Borden Sourcebook

PARTICULAR ONE.

“The Murders and the Investigation.

……..

THE FALL RIVER MYSTERY
Looking For the Assassin Of

Mr. and Mrs. Borden

Fall River, Mass., Aug. 6. -- Some interesting clues were worked out by the police to-day relative to two mysterious visitors at the Borden homestead prior to the assassination of old Mr. and Mrs. Borden. No positive light was thrown on the mystery of the murders, however.

….Last Monday morning, about 9 o'clock, a horse and buggy turned into Second Street out of Spring, and stopped in front of the Borden residence. A man who is employed nearby sat in his buggy almost opposite and facing south. He had ample opportunity and time to take a careful look at the vehicle, and the circumstances of the two strange men calling at the Borden house made an impression on his mind which he remembers distinctly. One of the men got out of the buggy and rang the doorbell. As he stood there the observer saw him plainly, and remembers that his description was that of a man about twenty-five years of age, with sallow complexion, soft hat, dark trousers, with a wide strip of dark material running down the leg, and russet, or baseball, shoes. He was about 5 feet 9 inches high. The shoes in particular attracted his attention, as they were of peculiar make and color and were laced. Mr. Borden opened the door and the man spoke a few words and was admitted. The man who remained in the buggy was not as closely scrutinized, and his description is not so well remembered. The man who entered remained about ten minutes and then came out with his hat in his hand. The team was driven off in the direction of Pleasant Street.

The circumstance is considered of importance when the fact is known that the police have in their possession knowledge of the only person who tells of having seen a strange man at the Borden house at the time of the murders.”

. . . . . . . . . . . .etc.. . . . . . . . .. .

“Nevertheless the weird story is working itself clear, without the aid of the police, of the vast mass of inventions and lies that formerly clogged it. There was, for example, a fine circumstantial story let loose in the morning papers about the "unknown man," famous in New York police reports. This mysterious being called last Monday at Mr. Borden's house, leaving a companion in a buggy outside. Just before the time of the murder, that is about half-past ten Thursday morning, he called again and was afterward seen climbing over the fence at the rear of the house being easily distinguishable by a pair of baseball shoes and his odd patterned trousers. Even the name of the witness, a respectable woman who lives opposite the Bordens, was given to bolster up this interesting narrative. Then the story led to a neigh boring, village and a band of gypsy horse dealers, and then the strange man disappears.

Some Yarns Disproved
Patient inquiry disposes of this yarn. ……….”
______________________________
ALSO: SOURCEBOOK (same as above)
Fall River, Mass, August 7, 1892

The New York Herald, Sunday, August 7, 1892
________________________________________

DEFENSE NOTES

In Jennings Journal pg 186-187, under “Contradictory Statements”,James Leonard, who drives Dr Bowen, said on Tuesday he saw a man with russet shoes(some use the description of “russet shoes” to describe “baseball shoes”) get down from a wagon, and was let into the Borden house, and after 5 minutes let out again. (The team went around the corner to Spring Street and waited). Phillips took the notes.

—The contradiction seems to be the newspaper claims this happened “last Monday.” (Pg 286)
“TO THE GRAVE, Fall River Daily Globe, August 6, 1892.”

[camgarsky4]

Thanks Kat, how you get your hands on this stuff so swiftly is a wonderment to me!

Side note on the 'baseball shoes'... per a little google search, by the 1890's many baseball players wore leather baseball shoes with cleats or spikes, not something you would be inclined to wear off the ballfield.

Jim Chatterton played ball in Lynn, Ma....north of Boston. Seems unusual that he would participate in giving a planned buggy ride, hours from where he lived.

JC -- does Pittman state that Joseph also played ball? But in Fall River? I can't find his name in any of the sports articles in the 1890's. Found multiple sports articles in the Lynn, Ma paper about his brother Jim. He was the team manager and a player.

Besides the Tuesday (or Monday) visitor possibly wearing baseball shoes, how did the author connect the person with the Chatterton's?

[Kat]

Anthony Morse tree shows no Chattertons, and sister Sarah died at 20 years old.
George’s wife was Harriet Andrews, and brother Charles married Mary Morrison.
View Anthony’s line to left of center.
That Charles Morse, BTW, continued to live in the area, and his only 2 daughters as well. He is JVM’s uncle, who he had stayed with.
Plz clic pic to make bigger

[Kat]

I don’t know if I can take 800 pages of this: I’m supposed to be retired

[jcurrie]

Camgarsky4. There is no evidence of Joseph Chatterton playing baseball. Jim Chatterton apparently played for a team called the Salem Fairies and briefly with the Kansas City Cowboys in 1884 (for one week!). It's all on Google. The Chatterton family were all involved in a shoemaking business, so why would they need to leave their business just to do a favour for a family they barely knew?

I agree with you about why didn't Abby just use a buggy from the livery stable opposite? It seems pointless that Andrew or John Morse would such an elaborate facade just to get her to the bank (if the story is true). Incidentally, Mark Chase, who owned the stable, was another one who saw this mystery man in the buggy.

Incidentally, thanks for the information regarding the Jennings Journals. They are available on Amazon so I look forward to reading them.

Pittman's book is over 800 pages long and includes a section on people who've stayed at the house and experienced ghostly episodes. That certainly put me off.

[camgarsky4]

Thanks for sharing the Pittman's book insights. It helped me avoid spending more$. Sounds like she did what all these authors do.....force/create connections with the crime that make it feel a little like it makes sense. I don't mind any of us connecting the dots, but creating the dots is crossing the line to get my $!

You'll find Jennings Journals very enlightening and adds so much depth to what we already think we know!! You saw the JJ quote from Dr. Bowen's coachman that Kat included above. There are dozens of similar insights in JJ.