sarah borden cause of death

[camgarsky4]

Lizzie's biological mother, Sarah Borden, died of uterine congestion and spinal disease at the age of 39.

Possum or other knowledgeable folks.....what would this cause of death be called today?

[Reasonwhy]

Found this by searching on the forum:

(Post by debbiediablo » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:37 am):

“Hysterology: a Treatise, Descriptive and Clinical, On the Diseases and the Displacements of the Uterus – Edwin Nesbit Chapman - 1872

This is a free eBook on Google and contains everything you want to know about uterine congestion and its treatments in mid to late 1800s, plus a lot you might not want to know.”

[camgarsky4]

Sounds like sum nice light reading!!

[PossumPie]

Lizzie's biological mother, Sarah Borden, died of uterine congestion and spinal disease at the age of 39.

Possum or other knowledgeable folks.....what would this cause of death be called today?

In the late 1800s Uterine congestion was a "catch-all" phrase for gynecological problems such as endometriosis, uterine cancer, etc. Uterine hemorrhage may happen due to ectopic pregnancy as well. Also ovarian cancer caused congestion in the uterus in severe cases.
There isn't enough evidence, even in the journals of the 1800s, to be more specific, but if I had to guess based on etiology, I'd say ectopic pregnancy or ovarian cancer. Either would be fatal back then and either would cause menorrhagia (excessive vaginal bleeding)

[camgarsky4]

Being the ignorant male that I am....had to google the term. An ectopic pregnancy occurs when a fertilized egg implants and grows outside the main cavity of the uterus. An ectopic pregnancy most often occurs in a fallopian tube, which carries eggs from the ovaries to the uterus. This type of ectopic pregnancy is called a tubal pregnancy.

Posting in case any others are in my boat.

[Kat]

Is "spinal disease" the same as "disease of the spine"? Because I think what was included on her death info was the latter phrase.
I had opined that she had had a miscarriage from which she never recovered.

[camgarsky4]

Assuming miscarriage or a similar reproductive tragedy, any ideas on how “disease of the spine” would fit into that scenario?

[PossumPie]

Assuming miscarriage or a similar reproductive tragedy, any ideas on how “disease of the spine” would fit into that scenario?

Disease of the spine is so vague it's hard to tell. The most common diseases that would fit that name maybe Tuberculosis, Meningitis. In trying to search medical journals from the 1890s, I find that the term wasn't a specific disease but used to describe many. Perhaps she had ovarian cancer which metastasized to the spine, there are just too many possibilities. Congestion in medical sense is an accumulation of fluid in an organ such as nasal congestion, Lung congestion, etc. Uterine congestion

[camgarsky4]

As a 'fun' side challenge, I'm trying to create a 'non-ridiculous' scenario where Morse might have been the killer. To do that I need a legit motive. Fiddling around with the notion that Morse might have blamed Andrew for Sarah's death and just learned some of the details around her death 'recently'.

If reproductive related, perhaps Andrew knew that Sarah getting pregnant again was highly dangerous, but he wanted a son. The 'fairy tale' theory would be that Andrew inadvertently mentioned to John (circa 1892) that he pushed for the pregnancy and how sad that it ended with Sarah's death. But perhaps Morse wasn't understanding or forgiving.

Possum -- you are not allowed to make fun of this theorizing!! But would love any medical tidbits that would dismiss or support .

[PossumPie]

Morse approached Andrew with a business proposition. He knew if Andrew would lend him some money he could double it and get rich. Andrew yet again refused. Morse found his acquaintances, the shady horse traders and paid one to go to the house and kill him. The less than brilliant guy only found Abbey and killed her, but realizing he wouldn't get paid without chopping up Andrew, he hid in a closet for an hour-and-a-half and when Andrew came home, killed him. Morse didn't get the riches he wanted, but finally got back at the scrooge who deprived his sister and nieces of being comfortable.

[Kat]

I was thinking possibly scoliosis, which would make a pregnancy difficult, dangerous and painful. In her photo we have of Sarah (with a small child) she looks to me to have been in chronic pain. I understand the photo subject has to sit still for a while and that can cause an unnatural expression in the body language and face, but that image of Sarah looks strange. Maybe she was on a drug for pain.
As for Andrew wanting a son, I have no opinion. But Sarah came from a large family and probably would have expected to produce a child every year. There were lots of "stepmothers" around, so something was killing the original mothers....these were the facts of life, back then.

[PossumPie]

I was thinking possibly scoliosis, which would make a pregnancy difficult, dangerous and painful. In her photo we have of Sarah (with a small child) she looks to me to have been in chronic pain. I understand the photo subject has to sit still for a while and that can cause an unnatural expression in the body language and face, but that image of Sarah looks strange. Maybe she was on a drug for pain.
As for Andrew wanting a son, I have no opinion. But Sarah came from a large family and probably would have expected to produce a child every year. There were lots of "stepmothers" around, so something was killing the original mothers....these were the facts of life, back then.

one of the key symptoms of severe scoliosis is one shoulder significantly higher than the other. I've examined all of the pictures of Sarah Borden that I could find and see no sign of severe scoliosis. Could still be though, just not a "smoking gun" in the pictures.

[Kat]

How many pictures of Sarah do you have access to, may I ask?

[PossumPie]

How many pictures of Sarah do you have access to, may I ask?

I have 3. One is a bit hard to tell if she may have had scoliosis b/c it is cutting off part of her shoulders. She was a large woman with masculine features. What ever the problem, it didn't cause infertility b/c Lizzie was born a few years before Sarah died. I really don't have enough information on her cause of death to make an educated guess, but the fact that spinal involvement in a uterine problem existed, My guess is some type of fibromyoma/cancerous growth in the uterus metastasized outside to the lower spine which behind the uterus.

[camgarsky4]

Possum, that speculative diagnosis makes sense. Cancer could sadly be the common factor between the uterus and the spine. Which would mean that pregnancy wasn't necessarily involved. There goes that potential 'stretch' motive for Mr. Morse. Guess I am back to the horses.... :(

Thanks to all of you for roaming off the reservation a bit with this thread!

[Kat]

I can only find 2 pictures of Sarah in my computer...could you help me with a third? Like, where published so I can gather it?
Now that you mention that scoliosis would leave someone with possibly one shoulder higher, I do have a picture like that:
(The second pic is the one most often seen- just including it here)

[Kat]

Also, I always thought this photo of Lizzie in Newport looks like she has one shoulder higher. I know that scoliosis can be inherited...
The only reason I find this important is because I understand this is a constantly painful condition.

[PossumPie]

[Reasonwhy]

Edit

[camgarsky4]

Kat, just googled borden images, and they’ve got that last photo labeled as Sarah, Andrews first wife.

[Kat]

No, that is Sarah, thanks PossumPie.
But isn't that the same as the one I have in sepia? Same lace collar, same ear bobs? Slightly different pose?
What do you think? Or do you mean since it's a slightly different pose it's a third picture?
I'm beginning to think it is a different picture, mine being maybe a year or two younger? Can you remember the source?

[Kat]

Camgarsky, I was creating my post and you bumped me!That was weird. You weren't there, and then you were!

[Kat]

I had looked in Rebello, and Parralell Lives and my computer. I have every image you can imagine because Stef and I share...but for some reason I did not find, nor see (but do remember) that pic you posted, thanks PossumPie!

[PossumPie]

I had looked in Rebello, and Parralell Lives and my computer. I have every image you can imagine because Stef and I share...but for some reason I did not find, nor see (but do remember) that pic you posted, thanks PossumPie!

I remember a while back Stef found a new image of Emma. She did digital analysis and found it was indeed a new pic of Emma. That was interesting.

[Reasonwhy]

Lizzie's biological mother, Sarah Borden, died of uterine congestion and spinal disease at the age of 39.

Possum or other knowledgeable folks.....what would this cause of death be called today?

Found this in Sherry Chapman’s Lizzie Borden: Resurrections, from 2014, page 281:

“In the 1800s, uterine congestion was sometimes treated with iodine, locally applied, or a mix of iodine with nitrate of silver solution. It was also treated with arsenic locally in large doses every 15-20 minutes. The condition had the capacity to invade the stomach and other organs and to even cause spinal irritation. The subject was quite broad in old medical books, but there was one thing the doctors could agree on—it caused ‘hysteria’….”