Phillips book and interview

[camgarsky4]

The recent banter that involved Attorney Phillips 1943 inspired book and the 1934 New Bedford newspaper article have gotten me to reread the material. The book is on the LB Virtual Library site (takes very little time to read).

Assuming this is the best case the defense could muster, might be fun to evaluate the strength and weaknesses of their suggested scenarios.

Kat -- would you be able to add a link to the April 2002 Quarterly article and the New Bedford newspaper article?
Then we will all have access to all the relevant info to dive into this topic.

Thanks!

[mbhenty]

Forgive me, Camgarsky. I know I'm not Kat. I'm sure she will hop in and answer your question.

But here is my take on Phillips.

I lost a tinge of credibility in Phillips a couple of years ago. Phillips was one of the attorneys at the Borden trial but spent most of his time as an assistant and gofer. He was five years younger than Lizzie and in his latter twenties, just starting out, and we don't know how much time he actually spent in court or at the trial. In any event, he should be an expert on the case.

I have heard that Phillips had stumbled over an error here and there. And perhaps I should not bring it up, since I can't remember or post an example. But, less than a year ago I was discussing a matter with Stefani Koorey about something that Phillips said while Stefani was compiling text for Knowlton and Pearson Letters, the book. I remember we were trying to figure out how Phillips could get such a simple fact wrong. I just can't remember what the topic was but it had something to do with the case and he was clearly mistaken.

So you see, even the experts believe or mention facts or points of view which fail to embrace truth. It's human to be mistaken. Still, I do not take anything away from Phillips, and his reputation remains intact.

Now as for Victoria Lincoln:

This is a woman that claimed... no, I take that back and my apology to womanhood.

This is a Writer who claimed that Lizzie committed the murders while under the spell of cerebral paroxysm and during an epileptic seizure. When there was no history or proof that Lizzie had Epilepsy. Or that Lizzie hid the blood stained dress beneath another heavy silk dress towards the back in the closet. And being silk and a heavy dresses, Fleet did not bother to take it out to check it for blood, thus that is where Lizzie hid the bloody dress. Makes sense, heh? Just mentioning a few schemes invented by Lincoln. And after all, she grew up in Fall River when Lizzie was alive. She should know.

In my many years I have discovered that if you want erroneous information on the case come to Fall River and ask a Fall Riverite.

No doubt that Victoria Lincoln's book is a must read. So is Jurassic Park. Still her account is a land mark narrative and every scholar must scrub it for the truth. After all, Lincoln was from Fall River. She should know.

[camgarsky4]

MB.....so good to 'read' from you again!!

I couldn't agree more on Lincoln.....she included so many falsehoods (or at best, unsubstantiated claims) that I pretty much disregard her book. I've read it and likely won't pick it back up ever again. From my perspective, same goes for Radin. But at least he named a couple of his sources who were children at the time of the murders.

More to come on the Phillips topic, but last night I did a quick read of his book on the Virtual Library. In my opinion, his assumptions (which attempted to incorporate Lizzie's inquest testimony) are reaches. For example, he has Abby receiving the message at the back side door, going to the guest room to fetch whatever the messenger wanted, the messenger followed her and then slaughtered her up in the room.

So much is wrong with this scenario....but for starters....Lizzie and Bridget testify that Abby talked to Lizzie in the dining room as Lizzie came downstairs a bit before 9am. During this brief chat Lizzie tells us that Abby told her about the note. That means the messenger knocked on the back door at roughly the same time that Morse was leaving the house, which then means that the intruder followed Abby upstairs and killed her, all while Andrew, Bridget and Lizzie were in the lower back of the house. Amazing ninja skilled assassin. If messenger arrived before Morse left, then that adds another person to the household who didn't notice Mr. Ninja scurrying after Abby with his Ninja hatchet.

MB -- on a personal note, have you docked the sailboat for the winter? Be sure to share any good seafaring stories!

[Kat]

Here is a photo (worth 1000 words, it's said) that represents the time, the research, the writing, a few of the e-mails, the comparing of the material available, and the original newspaper article, that 2 people worked on for a month in 2002, to get to the bottom of what's wrong with Phillips.
For starters...

[wall59]

Philips, page 3

She was contradicted by Eli Bence concerning her attempt to purchase poison, but at the time of her trial this evidence was excluded as immaterial since there was no evidence that any poison was used or actually purchased.She had sought to purchase it for an innocent purpose.

Is Phillips admitting that Lizzie tried to buy Prussic acid from Bence?

[camgarsky4]

Yep. He not only implies she tried to buy the poison, but he also opines she was upstairs when Andrew got home.

[Kat]

The recent banter that involved Attorney Phillips 1943 inspired book and the 1934 New Bedford newspaper article have gotten me to reread the material. The book is on the LB Virtual Library site (takes very little time to read)
Kat -- would you be able to add a link to the April 2002 Quarterly article and the New Bedford newspaper article?
Then we will all have access to all the relevant info to dive into this topic.
Thanks!

--partial

I'm sorry, I don't know exactly what you mean? Does the LAB website have the chapter by Phillips? And does the LAB website have the LBQs typed? And do we have the news article by him on the LAB website? Plz direct me further? Thanks!

[camgarsky4]

I can’t locate on line the 1934 article and was hoping you might know where to locate on line or had a PDF you could share. Wondering how different the article is from the book and if he shares any useful tidbits.

[Kat]

Yes but what book do you mean plz?
There is the download PDF from a website I offered earlier for the "Chapter", which can be shared.
The news article is not online that I know of, and I cannot reproduce it, and I don't think we have direct copies of the Quarterly which also cannot be reproduced, if there was Phillips content there, without permission.

I will give you a hint from my research: and that is that someone used Porter to fill in any memory lapses, after denigrating Porter in the manuscript. You can try comparing to Porter.

Your topic and idea is certainly worthwhile, it's a shame that the material can't be gathered together in one place, unless you actually go and get it.

[camgarsky4]

The book is in pdf form in the primary sources section of the LB website. It is an extract from Fall River history.

In the forward, Steph gives you big props!

[Kat]

I looked around the website but didn't find it...
I googled and found it at the website
Try this?
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/wp-conte ... psBook.pdf

BTW: Terence Duniho ended up finishing his paper before me so we collaborated somewhat, comparing notes and editing his essay which apparently was published in the LBQ. His title is "Who Wrote 'The Borden Murder Mystery?' I have a copy but its not online, unless you know how to get LBQ articles? I thought you did know? I don't, sorry...

[Kat]

Arthur Phillips died in 1941, and the 3rd fascicle of his "History" was published in 1946.
Terence's stance, is one of pure research: "...But more disheartening is the number of factual errors his (Phillips) essay contains."
"...this has led me to believe that his 'co-author and editor (Easton)' may have had more of a hand in the writing of his 'Lizzie chapter' than Phillips himself did."
Also, he specifies "One basic criterion....that...reveals quite a bit about how complete is an author's knowledge of the case is to see how many basic facts - that should not be in dispute - are found to be in error. Sad to say, despite Phillips having more opportunity than most to get his facts right, there are several instances where he does not."

He proceeds to go over the errors, and concludes, "Like the core mystery of this case, the truth will probably never be known, but I think it somewhat more probable that these pages...were written more by Norman S. Easton than by Arthur S. Phillips, and that it was most likely 'prepared largely from his notes or a[n inadequate] knowledge of his intentions.' I would rather believe that than to think Mr. Phillips could gave been guilty of so many errors and contradictions."
--excerpt Who Wrote "The Borden Murder Mystery"?, by Terence Duniho

[Kat]

As far as I'm concerned, it's still a valuable practice to dissect the published essay, comparing the content to fact!

[mbhenty]

Ah yes, the sailing vessel Saudades:

Thanks for taking interest, Cramgarsky, and for the inquiry. Yes, Saudades will be taken out of the water in the next two weeks and brought home this year. It needs tons of work and it is best to do it from home.

So I have been busy the past couple of months building a new driveway to store the boat. My existing driveway is to tight and the street to narrow for the trailer truck to maneuver.

So I had to build the driveway 45 degrees to the road so the truck could easily back in.

Below is a photo of the driveway with its "sailboat lifeline fence". A little nautical creativity, you can say. (click to make big, dah?)

The other photo is of Saudades on her mooring. In the back ground is the shore to what use to be the Andrew Borden Swansea Farm. The cooling towers you see in the back ground and the tall chimney once belonged to the New England Power plant in Somerset. Both have been demolished since the plant folded operation. So I have a nice clean skyline now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaanJGspRMo

And finally a photo of the Brigham place on Belmont Street. After all, this is a form about all things Borden. The tower on the house looks out of place... almost like an after-thought or ill devised addition. Not certain whether the tower was built with the house. Part of the reason it probably looks out of place is because it's so large.

Thanks Carmgarsky.