Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

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Reasonwhy
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Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by Reasonwhy »

I’ve noticed something I’ve not seen mentioned before: Some writers find Lizzie’s middle name, “Andrew,” to be a sign that Andrew wanted a son, and that he felt Lizzie was his last chance for a namesake.

Yet, her mother, Sarah Anthony Borden, also had been given her father’s first name—Anthony—as her middle name. So maybe Sarah just wanted to continue her family tradition?

Sarah, however, was her parents’ first-born, unlike Lizzie, who was the third-born and final child. None of Sarah’s siblings, several males included, had Anthony for a first or middle name, based on my searches of our forum.
Last edited by Reasonwhy on Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
wall59
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by wall59 »

Lizzie's tombstone has an "S" on the end of her middle name.
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Reasonwhy
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by Reasonwhy »

Wall, I found this, written by Harry in 2011:

Re: Lizbeth
Post Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:32 pm

DJ, I'm from the Andrews school. Nothing in this case is ever settled. :lol:

In 1919 Lizzie hand wrote her burial instructions. Unfortunately the copy I stumbled across is very faded and the Andrew/Andrews part is hard to make out. Here tis':

Image http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/h ... rden21.jpg

I believe this is the only place Lizzie signed her middle name. It is interesting to note that she underlined Lizbeth twice [On another part of the instructions]. Hopefully Parallel Lives will shed additional light.

Way back in 2002 we had an interesting discussion on this very thing. See:

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archi ... BLHand.htm

More recent discussions can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3943&p=65941&hilit=andrews#p65941

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3868&p=64876&hilit=andrews#p64876


Reasonwhy here:
In his post, he mentions he hopes Parallel Lives, once released, will clear up that mystery. I’ve just checked therein, and can find no reference to this, though. If you search the forum for his posting, the image of her signature in the instructions will show larger.
wall59
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by wall59 »

Reasonwhy, Her signature is definitely too faded to be legible. Rest of post removed as too far out there.
Last edited by wall59 on Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by Reasonwhy »

Well, I enjoyed your guess, but hatcheting them is not the usual means of showing you are their favorite :scratch: :lol:
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by wall59 »

That assumes Lizzie is guilty.
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by Reasonwhy »

True; that’s what I think, so much so that I do forget sometimes that we don’t know for sure…what do you think about the culprit/s?
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by Reasonwhy »

Wall, you had been wondering about Lizzie’s reasons for changing her name. I found this, in Lizzie Borden Took an Axe, or Did She? A Rhetorical Inquiry, by Annette M. Holba (page 70):

“….the act of changing her name was her way of trying to persuade the public to see her differently, to escape from their memory of her trial. The name she chose…signifies one as a proper adult, quite the change from ‘Lizzie,’ which colloquially implies a child’s name…If she promised to be a lady, if she promised to grow up in a sense, she would be able to remain in Fall River despite the broken covenant that manifested as her father and step-mother’s murder….”

Holba seems to imply she did it as way to help townspeople who shunned her toward a way to forgive her, or at least to put “Lizzie’s” acts firmly in the past. Wondering how these ideas strike you?
wall59
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by wall59 »

I agree "the act of changing her name was her way of trying to persuade the public to see her differently" but it may have been an attempt to be accepted socially, which would help explain why " the name she chose…signifies one as a proper adult, quite the change from ‘Lizzie,’ which colloquially implies a child’s name." I don't think she had any delusion she would ever escape the memory of the murders and subsequent trial.

Lizzie lived the last 35 years of her life as if she had done nothing that required forgiveness from anyone including her sister. If Lizzie was guilty it is hard to reconcile the two, but I think forgiveness was the furthest thing from her mind.
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by Reasonwhy »

Can agree she may have thought it would help her socially, but Lizzie seems to have had a tin ear for how society would look at her actions, at least post-trial. Writers say people thought naming her house was pretentious, so they likely thought the same about her name change.

As far as what Lizzie thought, here is one of her actions I find “odd,” as she was called. It’s hard for me to understand her motivations, here.
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by camgarsky4 »

Per Parallel Lives (pg 727-730), June, 1904 was the first known use of the name 'Lizbeth'. It was contained in the dedication written by Nance O'Neill as part of the gift of a book to Lizzie. Nance (who called herself Daphne in the book dedication) noted the message was to Lizbeth (Lizzie).

From then on, Lizzie was no more and it was Lizbeth. The 1905 Fall River City Directory included a Lizbeth Borden, but no Lizzie Borden's. That was the case until her death.

So very possible (and maybe likely) that Nance gave her that new name. Parallel Lives speculates on a couple reasons for the change, but none feel compelling. In a little over a year, Lizzie changed her name and became permanently estranged from her sister. It seems the permanent name change was possibly a decision Lizzie made about herself to herself and it does suggest Nance had substantial influence over Lizzie's self view.
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by Kat »

Thank you for that source! I was wracking my brain to figure out where I would find the name Nance used with Lizzie. I didn't ever want to call the appellation "Daphne" a "nickname," as I felt it had much more meaning than that between the two, but I also understand that in those days women would give each other affectionate "nicknames" (wrong word, obviously, in these contexts). It might be better if I refer to it as a "personal" name, when shared between friends who are close.
Excellent! Thanks!🍐
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Re: Lizzie Andrew and Sarah Anthony

Post by camgarsky4 »

Where there is smoke, there is usually a fire. And the relationship between Nance and Lizzie sure seems to have sent some smoke signals!! One doesn't normally permanently change their given name based on what a relatively new friend calls them.

The timing of this name change and Emma's estrangement months later can't be just another coincidence.
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