After the Murders

[PossumPie]

One of the strangest things, in this case, is the seeming lack of attempt to find the "real" killer if Lizzie and her family believed her innocent. Half-hearted hiring of a Pinkerton man which was quietly discontinued after a few weeks is all that I can find. After the "not guilty" verdict, it seems the whole thing was dropped by the family and they went on as if nothing happened. Both sisters had more money than they could spend in a lifetime now, why not hire people to find the killer?
Those of you with the sleuthing ability to go through news articles, first/second-hand accounts, etc. What became of the search for the killer? Either by the family or law enforcement.

Here is a well-written piece by Harry a few years back:

"... At the time of the Borden murders in 1892, Orinton Hanscom was Superintendent of the Pinkerton Detective Agency in Boston. He was hired by Lizzie and Emma Borden at the suggestion of their attorney, Andrew J. Jennings, and arrived in Fall River on Saturday, August 6th.

The Fall River police immediately suspected that Hanscom was hired to protect the Borden sisters from them and his presence was deeply resented. Along with Jennings, Hanscom was suspected of placing hindrances in the way of their investigation.

On August 14th, Robert Pinkerton, head of the Pinkerton company, in an article carried in the Fall River Herald, announced that at his suggestion Hanscom had withdrawn from the case with the continuing hostility of the police being cited as the reason. In that article, Pinkerton claimed that Hanscom was “hired by the family to follow any clues that might lead to the detection of the criminal.”

The August 14th date however is at odds with an article that appeared in a Hastings, Iowa paper dated August 19th. The article, in part, contained the following “While Morse has succeeded in establishing a very fair alibi, it seems that Lizzie Borden, who is now under arrest for the murder, is anxious to know something of his past record. She has accordingly sent Detective Hanscom out here to investigate.

Exactly how long Hanscom was in the employ of the defense and what his findings were are not known as no records have ever been revealed."

[camgarsky4]

This forum has often debated how and when the Robinson legal files will ever be open to the public. Likely never.

But Possum, your post brings up an interesting avenue to explore. I'm sure a national outfit like Pinkertons' required formal reporting of agent activities and findings. Certainly those records are retained, especially for high profile cases like the Borden murders. I've not seen accessing the Pinkerton company files mentioned as a fascinating option to explore.

Can't imagine the 'customer confidentiality' rules of a private investigation firm are as tightly adhered to as a legal firm. Particularly 130 years after the fact.

Here is a related post made previously......

Jenning found a clue??
Post by camgarsky4 » Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:58 pm

On page 296 in Rebello's "Past and Present" in a section titled "Clue was no Good", it includes an extract quoting Andrew Jennings from an article in the Fall River Daily Herald, June 6, 1894.

"........I thought after the acquittal of Miss Borden that I had found a clue that promised to reveal all, but after working diligently on it for two months, realized that it solved nothing....."

The Fall River Historical Society has the Jennings journal. We'll learn soon if the Jennings Journal shines a light on this.

[PossumPie]

In my research of the Pinkerton angle, I remember seeing that someone (Mspitstop) Contacted the Pinkerton agency. It had been bought out by a Japanese company and records were stuffed in a warehouse somewhere without much referencing. They did say that they had no record of the Borden case

[Reasonwhy]

It is possible Lizzie and Emma assumed the defense and the prosecution had done what could be done, in searching for alternative suspects. But they had the money to continue the investigation, so could have pursued it in a very hands-off manner.

If they knew who killed, they did not care to keep up the pretense of the search. Why not? They had plenty of money, and this would have helped keep them sympathetic to those who still believed Lizzie innocent.

I see two possibilities:
1. They feared fuller investigation would find direct evidence of family involvement. I suspect this fear played a role in the early dismissal of the Pinkerton agent. Defense attorneys could have shared this anxiety. Can we know if the Pinkerton agency worked on the basis of client confidentiality, or if they had a reputation of independence?
AND/OR:
2. Lizzie and Emma hoped to quell their notoriety by having nothing more to say about the case. Even if innocent, they may have decided it was impossible to change any minds and the best thing for them, emotionally, was to put the whole case firmly behind them.

Their decision does increase my belief in (at least Lizzie’s) guilt.

Look at a contrasting case, for example. Jeffrey MacDonald’s father-in-law put everything into finding his pregnant daughter Colette and two granddaughters’ killer until the day he died. At first he did not suspect MacDonald, but became convinced of his guilt and pursued him doggedly, to the detriment of his own health. This type of reaction sounds much more natural to me; does it not to all of you?

Of course, the sisters hated Abby, and were at least ambivalent in their feelings toward their father. So, maybe the women felt true justice, through their parents’ deaths, had already been achieved.

At any rate, doing nothing to further pursue “the real killer” sounds completely hypocritical in light of Lizzie’s comments that she wanted to stay in Fall River so those who had ‘cut’ her could one day know she was innocent.

[wall59]

PinkertonLtr.jpg

[Steve887788]

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Source: New York Journal - 12/2/1899

[PossumPie]

That is The Philadelphia Record - December 3, 1899, I've seen the above article and dismissed it as tabloid journalism. In the late 1800s, racial fear-mongering generally blamed whatever racial group they could attach to a case as a suspect. Irish, "swarthy men", gypsies, etc. At first, even the police jumped on the idea it was Bridget or a boyfriend. There was no proof that she ever had a boyfriend while in their employ, and the people she associated with were women. The Irish name Sullivan was like the Engish name Smith. There were a dozen on every block. There have been many wild speculations surrounding various "Bridget Sullivans" which have proven to be the wrong Bridget. There is an entire thread in the forum dedicated to the various Bridget Sullivans and what happened to the Borden Bridget (search "Bridget's Whereabouts) it's 321 posts long and full of debate. Even Bridget apparently didn't know her birthdate, so it is hard to point to any one Bridget Sullivan and say it was her. She does swear under oath that her full legal name is Bridget Sullivan (no middle name) and many of the genealogical reports and marriage certificates that purport to be THE Bridget Sullivan have middle initials or middle names on them.
ANY time someone offers sensational "proof" that they know the murderer in the Borden case AND offers it to the police for $4000, be suspect.

[camgarsky4]

Wall - thanks for sharing the Pinkerton letter. Where did u find that document, it is new to me.

Thanks !

[camgarsky4]

The article above opens with dec 1 date. The source mentions the 2nd and possum references the 3rd.

Also is it the New York paper as sourced or philly per possum?

If we can sort that out, maybe more than one article mentions this information.

If simons wanted $4000, he might have been best served going straight to the Borden sisters.

[wall59]

Wall - thanks for sharing the Pinkerton letter. Where did u find that document, it is new to me.

Thanks !

Camgarsky, I found it here.

https://phayemuss.wordpress.com/tag/pin ... ve-agency/

[Steve887788]

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[PossumPie]

Thanks, Steve -- great article. These tangential-to-the-case articles fill in some of the gaps. It seems due diligence was done in checking out those who had rough relationships with Mr. Borden. It does seem that Mr. Borden stepped on a few (or many) people in the course of his making his fortune.
I suspect that once the police zeroed in on Lizzie, they lost interest in finding another suspect, but Jennings and his team worked hard to find an alternative suspect other than Lizzie. I started this thread to discover if the whole thing was REALLY just dropped after the acquittal, or if we just haven't found the evidence that the sisters genuinely pursued a suspect.

[Steve887788]

I've seen the Carpenter story on here before but I could not find anything in the newspapers.

[wall59]

Bridget trial testimony

Q. I was about to ask you where you passed Wednesday evening?
A. I was up in my friend’s in Third street.
Q. Was it far away from the house?
A. No, sir, not far.
Q. What time did you go and what time did you return on the Wednesday evening?
A. I guess I got out about 7 o’clock on Wednesday evening and I went down Second street, called for a friend of mine on Third street: we went down Main street and up Morgan street and turned up Third street to my friend’s on Third street.
Q. If you can tell me about what time you got home, I would like to have you?
A. I think about five minutes past ten.

Does anyone know what Bridget was doing for three hours Wednesday evening besides taking a walk around the block? Did her "sweetheart" possibly live on Third Street?

[camgarsky4]

We don't know what Bridget did that evening besides what she shared during testimony. During her PH cross examination, the defense probed a bit on the gender of her friend. All in all, I think the friend could have been male or female. Three hours is a pretty long time to walk a few blocks even if you walk slow and look in every store window, but the way Bridget worded her answer, it sounds to me like 'they' hung out at the house on 3rd street for a while before heading out on the stroll.

Bridget Preliminary Hearing cross examination:
Q. The Wednesday night before this murder, you were out of the house
A. Yes Sir.
Q. What door did you go out of?
A. The back door.
Q. When you went out that night, did you have a key to the back door?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. You left the screen door unfastened?
A. Yes Sir, but the other door was locked.
Q. You always had a key to that door?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. For how long?
A. I don't think I have had it quite a year yet.
Q. Did anybody come home with you that night?
A. No Sir.
Q. Did anybody come to the gate with you?
A. No Sir.
Q. Did you meet anybody in particular in the street?
A. No Sir.
Q. Did you have any visitors?
A. Sometimes.
Q. Did you have any men call on you?
A. No Sir.
Q. Ever since you have been at this house?
A. Not in Fall River.
Q. While you have been in this house?
A. Not anybody from Fall River.
Q. I did not ask you where they were from. When did you have anybody call on you, not from Fall River?
A. About two or three months before that I guess.
Q. That is the last time any man has called on you at the house?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Has any man walked home with you?
A. No Sir.
Q. Has any man seen you in the back yard?
A. No Sir.
Q. Have you met anybody in the back yard for the last two or three months?
A. No Sir.
Q. Did you ever meet anybody in the back yard?
A. No Sir.
Q. Or sit down with anybody on the back step, or in the back yard?
A. No Sir.
Q. Never in your life?
A. I have sat down with girls on the back stairs and in the kitchen.
Q. Have you ever sat out on the back side of the house, or in the yard with girls?
A. No Sir.
Q. Or with anybody?
A. No Sir.
Q. Wednesday night you came in about what time?
A. About five minutes past ten.
Q. Everybody had gone to bed?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you lock the door?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you get a lamp?
A. Yes Sir, it was lighted in the kitchen.
Q. Waiting for you?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. You went up stairs?
A. Yes Sir.

[camgarsky4]

Double post. sorry!!

[Kat]

I've seen the Carpenter story on here before but I could not find anything in the newspapers.

--Terence Duniho had a long feature article on the subject of Carpenter as a suspect and his relationship to Phillip Harrington in the LBQ:
"Friends from Boyhood, A Police Officer and an Embezeller", July, 2001.

I found the link to a Forum discussion on Carpenter:

://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archive203/L ... penter.htm

[PossumPie]

Mrs. Victoria A. Foreman of Albany, New York, confirmed Carpenter's alibi, and the barber who said he shaved Carpenter the day before the murders was found to be in error. Carpenter looks like a good suspect with the animosity between them, but it appears he wasn't anywhere around Fall River.

The testimony that I've read depicts Bridget as having several women friends but no steady male callers or boyfriends. Any incident so severe as to cause a boyfriend of Bridget's to kill both Bordens would CERTAINLY be known to Emma and Lizzie. If we heard of Andrew driving some hot-blooded man away with a stick saying "Don't come around my house again!" perhaps this theory would make more sense, but there is no mention of even a male caller, much less one who would want to kill her employers.

Mark Twain said, "Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead" Benjamin Franklin stated that "Three May Keep a Secret if Two are Dead"
The point is that it is VERY unlikely that if two or three conspired to kill someone, none of them would ever talk about it. Anyone who has ever watched the true crime shows (I suspect we all have/do) has seen time and again that when more than one person is involved in a murder, the odds of being caught go up exponentially. Someone gets drunk and brags, someone feels guilt and confesses, etc. I suspect that if it was not Lizzie who committed the murders, it was some other very tight-lipped, sober, intelligent individual with little conscience.

[camgarsky4]

Kat -- two posts above, the link you provide to an archive forum thread is really interesting and fun to read. It would be really fascinating to know if Phillip and Hiram Harrington were related and same question regarding the Harrington that gave Bridget a home post-murder and occupied Alice's home prior to her moving in. Maybe these are just coincidences like Lizzie renting 2nd st. to Lubinsky .....but maybe not.

Certainly seems like an avoidable decision by Hilliard to send Phillip Harrington to check out Carpenter if they had a prior acquaintance.

Off to reread the witness statements on this topic and take a closer look at P. Harrington's testimonies in general.

[Kat]

Is this a link to LBQ online? I don't know, I don't know how to use it, but then, I have the Quarterly:

https://archive.org/details/lizziebordenquar82001fall