Quid Pro Quo

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camgarsky4
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Quid Pro Quo

Post by camgarsky4 »

Admittedly we know very few details of the Borden family dynamics and episodes prior to the murders. However the few we do might suggest that the family tension existed for years and centered around Lizzie's discontent and Andrew’s ongoing effort to assuage Lizzie.

If Andrew did fund the Europe trip, I think it was to counter some major disruption within the household. Wouldn’t we love to know what that was?

For the record :smile:, the 'Effects' are my speculation.
Cause: AJB purchased 50% of 4th St. house for Abby. Effect: AJB gave Ferry St. to Emma & Lizzie.
Cause: AJB disposed of pigeons to stop break-ins. Effect: Lizzie got to decide house paint color.
Cause: Lizzie arrives back from Europe. Effect: Emma volunteers to give Lizzie bigger bedroom.
Cause: AJB tells Rousenville of family tension summer of '92. Effect: AJB buys back Ferry St. for $5,000. He gave it to them for $0.
Cause: ?????? Effect: AJB gives Lizzie trip to Europe ???
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by PossumPie »

camgarsky4 wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:20 am Admittedly we know very few details of the Borden family dynamics and episodes prior to the murders. However the few we do might suggest that the family tension existed for years and centered around Lizzie's discontent and Andrew’s ongoing effort to assuage Lizzie.

If Andrew did fund the Europe trip, I think it was to counter some major disruption within the household. Wouldn’t we love to know what that was?

For the record :smile:, the 'Effects' are my speculation.
Cause: AJB purchased 50% of 4th St. house for Abby. Effect: AJB gave Ferry St. to Emma & Lizzie.
Cause: AJB disposed of pigeons to stop break-ins. Effect: Lizzie got to decide house paint color.
Cause: Lizzie arrives back from Europe. Effect: Emma volunteers to give Lizzie bigger bedroom.
Cause: AJB tells Rousenville of family tension summer of '92. Effect: AJB buys back Ferry St. for $5,000. He gave it to them for $0.
Cause: ?????? Effect: AJB gives Lizzie trip to Europe ???
Perhaps he was tired of her disruptions and thought maybe she might find a gallant young suitor to sweep her off her feet and out of his house.
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Reasonwhy »

Off the top of my head, before digging into what was happening during that time interval, maybe he was rewarding her for her church activities. Perhaps he would favor those as tending to keep her busy and, maybe, lessening her moodiness :scratch:
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by PossumPie »

I did some sleuthing since this thread started. Lizzie's "Europe trip" was nearly 5 months. The cost of a trip like that would have been beyond most people's reach.

"An 1882 report in Galignani’s Messenger, republished in the New York Times, indicated that cabin passengers on average take “spending money of at least $3000 each”; that “many estimate the cost of a four months’ tour at $1000” (HART, D. 2017. Social Class and American Travel to Europe in the Late Nineteenth Century, with Special Attention to Great Britain. Journal of Social History, 51(2), 313–340.)

This wasn't a trivial gift. Even assuming Lizzie only took $1000 spending money on her 4 1/2 month-long trip, the equivalent in today's money for the whole trip would be about $54,700. Was it because Andrew had paid for Emma to go to school and Lizzie didn't? My father paid for my college education, but my sister didn't want to go to college, so he gave her a 4-acre lot for her and her husband to build a house on to be "fair"
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by camgarsky4 »

Emma going to school thing feels like a stretch because that was roughly 25 years earlier.

Thanks for your research. To me that strongly suggests that the household was already very testy two years before the murders. Might have been a good investment for Andrew because it removed Lizzie from the home front for so long. Bet that was quite relaxing for the elders.

Maybe it just never really got back on track after the 4th street episode. If so, Lizzie sure could carry a grudge.

Lizzie's recollection of AJB's warm welcome home the morning after she got back is likely a case of revisionist history. Wouldn't be shocking if the reception was very luke warm.
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Kat »

Looks like PossumPie already contributed this item about Andrew's reaction to Lizzie's return from Europe. It is in The Sourcebook, from the Fall River Herald, Aug ?, 1892. Here's partial from my computer:

________________________________

MISS BORDEN'S FRIEND.

Mrs. George Brigham Speaks on the
Family's Domestic Relations.

"I wish you would stamp as a lie the allegation that Lizzie was not happy with her father and mother - her stepmother I mean. She has told me many times that these later years have been her happiest," said Mrs. George Brigham. "The story that she would not sit at the same table with her father is a falsehood of the blackest sort. To
"It has been said that Mr. Borden was angry with and did not speak to Lizzie upon her return from Europe. That, too is a falsehood, distorted out of facts that were as contrary to the statements as could be. On the night Lizzie arrived the family had given her up and Mr. and Mrs. Borden had gone to bed. Lizzie was very tired and only spoke a few words to Emma that night and retired. The next morning Mr. Borden found her steamer chair in the hall and bounded up stairs three at a time to see and greet her, and
Lizzie told me her hand ached all day he pressed it so hard. Going down town he met a man who said to him: 'Well, I

Page 137

would guess that some one had come home judging from your bright face this morning.'
"'Mr. Borden was, as they say, not a demonstrative man, but he loved his daughters and showed it at such times when they came back after being away. He did not like them to be away from home."


--The whole article is at link
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6390&p=102733&hilit=Steamer#p102733

--The last paragraph, about Bridget, at the link, was not in my version from The Sourcebook (Fall River Herald). PossumPie, your source says Boston Post- may I ask where the Post article came from?
--Rebello, pg 11, says Lizzie was gone 3 months. Parallel Lives, however, pg 240, states 18 weeks. Leaving June 21,1890 (pg 239), returning "early November, 1890."(pg 240)
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Kat »

As to the timing of Emma going away to school, it somewhat coincided with Andrew's new marriage to Abbie.
They would still be living at the Ferry Street house.

From LABVM&L
Chronology
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/chronolo ... 9-1892.htm

June 6, 1865
Andrew J. Borden marries Abby D. Gray (he 43+, she 37+, Emma 14+, Lizzie almost 5).
 
1865
John V. Morse visits Bordens
 
c. 1865- 1869 (?)
Emma away at school 1 1/2 years.
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by PossumPie »

Kat, sorry, I don't remember where I found the whole interview...
As for the school issue, my point was that in families, kids DO keep score. I remember my mother cutting pie and my brother or sister (or I) shouting "theirs is bigger. Perhaps Emma's schooling was a non-issue to Lizzie, but she got the Europe trip and Emma didn't.
18 weeks for the trip is the consensus for most sources-I used it based on Stefani's use of that time frame. Rebello is probably the best non-official testimony source for accurate Borden information, but he has a few errors in the book. It took a week just to get from America to Europe in 1890 as this was "pre-Titanic" era. Perhaps Rebello got the 3 month timeframe from trial testimony "Summer" taken literally would be June-August 3 months.

TRIAL
MOODY
The evidence which we offer is substantially this, your Honors: that upon the return voyage, after this witness and the prisoner had spent the summer in various parts of Europe in travel, there was this conversation which I am about to state, which was several times repeated: it was in substance that she (the prisoner), regretted the necessity of returning home after she had such a happy summer, because the home that she was about to return to was such an unhappy home. This conversation, as I say, was repeated several times, and we submit that, owing to the nature of the statement that was there made, it would be competent.

This is in stark contrast to the Letter which stated Andrew ran up the stairs 3 at a time and bright face this morning when Lizzie returned. I just don't see Andrew doing any of that even if he was overjoyed at her return. His personality doesn't fit with that behavior.
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by camgarsky4 »

Thanks Kat!

Another huge event in the Borden home during those years was the construction of the AJ Borden building which 'opened' in 1889. That project would have definitely taken all of AJB's focus.

Just for the purpose of interesting speculation, if the AJ Bldg construction took all of AJB's attention and the household strife escalated worse than usual in 1889 due to AJB's lessened attention/intervention, not a crazy stretch that he chilled her out with this amazing gift. Mrs. Davol wrote her daughter a letter April 25 (PL pg 238), referencing the upcoming voyage. So if the tickets were already booked in April, not a stretch that the Borden decision for Lizzie to go on the tour was made months earlier, perhaps overlapping with the final stages of the construction project in 1889.

If anyone thinks paying for a Europe trip is unrealistically generous just to avoid household strife....remember he gave a house for free to put out an earlier clash. And he bought that same house back for $5,000 later to likely avoid another skirmish.

And based on Anna Borden's likely (but excluded) testimony, Lizzie reinforced the fact that going home was not something she was looking forward to. I sure wish Knowlton included more notes on witnesses in his papers than he did. Obviously they knew what Anna was expected to testify, but nothing about it in his known papers. Frustrating.

Lastly, Mrs. Brigham surfaces a rumor that we only hear thru her comments. That AJB was displeased with Lizzie upon her return. While Brigham was trying to dispel that rumor, perhaps where there was smoke there was a little fire.

I find the possible chronology below compelling, considering how it hit a crescendo August 4th:
1887 4th St/Ferry St. real estate drama
1889 AJ Borden building
1890 Europe Trip
1890 Emma swaps bedrooms with Lizzie, giving her the larger room.
1891 Home burglary
1891/92 AJB on two separate occasions mentions bequeathing property to non-profits (JM PH testimony)
1892 Barn broken into
1892 Pigeons removed from barn
1892 Exterior painting of house (sequence is my opinion). Lizzie got to choose the color.
1892 AJB mentions family issues delaying his trip to Swansea (JJ pg 258 Cyrus Rousenville)
1892 Charles Cook witness statement that AJB expressed interest in writing will. Lizzie checked up on value of Ferry St.
1892 AJB buys Ferry St. back from sisters
1892 Sisters leave town for very rare overnight and extended trip
1892 Murders

It is easy to construct a multi-year setting of a very toxic and unfriendly household. Their behaviors were clearly set before Bridget joined the household. Love to know why the previous "Maggie" had left? Perhaps she was there when the attitudes really accelerated. Back to Bridget not making a huge deal out of family hostility. I think the family had already adapted to a segregated lifestyle and essentially ignored each other whenever possible. No open clashes.....just disdain and minimalization. It was this way when Bridget started her employment and it never changed.
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

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TRIAL
MOODY
Honors: that upon the return voyage, after this witness and the prisoner had spent the summer in various parts of Europe in travel, there was this conversation which I am about to state, which was several times repeated: it was in substance that she (the prisoner), regretted the necessity of returning home after she had such a happy summer, because the home that she was about to return to was such an unhappy home. This conversation, as I say, was repeated several times

The consensus among various accounts is that there was cold indifference or strife. Bridget seems to be "discrete" by not airing the family's dirty laundry in public. Mrs. Mary E Brigham is the one exception. A close friend of both Borden daughters, she goes out of her way to gush over Lizzie. Apparently, she was a one-woman Nancy Drew getting Morse to lie down in the place Abby died and trying to see if she could see him from the stairs. Her accounts of the tranquil home life are obvious exaggerations.
PRELIM.
by Mr. Jennings:
Q. Did you make an experiment this noon, Mrs. Brigham, to see if
you could see a person lying flat upon the floor between the bed and
the bureau, while you were standing on the upper entry floor?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you stand there yourself?
A. I did.
Q. Did you have anybody lie down between the bureau and the
bed?
A. I did.
Q. Who was it?
A. Mr. Morse.

Interestingly, when Emma broke all ties with Lizzie and moved out, Mrs. Brigham also broke all ties and never spoke to Lizzie again...
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

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PossumPie wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:59 am I did some sleuthing since this thread started. Lizzie's "Europe trip" was nearly 5 months. The cost of a trip like that would have been beyond most people's reach.

"An 1882 report in Galignani’s Messenger, republished in the New York Times, indicated that cabin passengers on average take “spending money of at least $3000 each”; that “many estimate the cost of a four months’ tour at $1000” (HART, D. 2017. Social Class and American Travel to Europe in the Late Nineteenth Century, with Special Attention to Great Britain. Journal of Social History, 51(2), 313–340.)

This wasn't a trivial gift. Even assuming Lizzie only took $1000 spending money on her 4 1/2 month-long trip, the equivalent in today's money for the whole trip would be about $54,700. Was it because Andrew had paid for Emma to go to school and Lizzie didn't? My father paid for my college education, but my sister didn't want to go to college, so he gave her a 4-acre lot for her and her husband to build a house on to be "fair"

Those dollar figures translated to today’s values are eye-opening! This was no minor gift, even for a man of Andrew’s overall wealth, and especially in light of his frugal habits. Could it have been Andrew’s way of contributing to Lizzie’s entree into society, since that was what she seemed to have built the foundation for, with all of her volunteer work? He did not value the show of wealth, himself. But Lizzie may have seen it as a way, beyond just church service roles, to establish herself as a social equal to the “Hill set.” And to placate her, or because he really did love her in his way, might Andrew have provided this trip as a way to finally make her happy?

For during these few years, she is working actively and with determination. She’s teaching, she’s volunteering on several committees, she’s impressing church elders with her effort. I think Lizzie is seeking to form an identity for herself. She’s seeking to differentiate herself from what she sees as her family’s humiliating house and lifestyle. At the same time, she’s proud of the Borden name and wealth, and identifies with that. She’s set to make distinct for all to see her identity as a “lady,” who deserves to take her place with those residing on the Hill.

But her huge push failed. She is escorted home from the reception honoring the travelers by a young man only doing her a courtesy. Father does not follow through on purchasing a house on the Hill. She has only mediocre success as a teacher, having difficulty managing the class of boys. She sustains an injury to her arms, serious enough to be written up in a local paper, from a falling dumbwaiter as she is serving dinners she volunteered to prepare. We see no evidence of her participation in gatherings among or friendships with the upper-crust. Perhaps she is seeing little glamour in and reward for her work? Maybe her family’s lifestyle or difficulties in her own personality kept her from being embraced by Fall River’s top layer? She had dreaded coming back to her unhappy home, and when she does, there are still Abby and her Father and that house, just the same, only seen by her more harshly after the light of better living glimpsed on her European tour. I think Lizzie’s hopes faded then.

My view is Lizzie became embittered during that time after the trip and before the killings of 1892. She became disillusioned and concluded she could not, by her own efforts alone, make the best society treat her as she felt entitled to be received. So her frustration and resentment grew. She likely became more “contentious,” as Uncle Harrington called her, and her family gave her favors (the larger room, the paint color choice, etc.), attempting to keep the peace. The 1891 robbery of the home escalated tensions most seriously; then, just weeks before the murders, Andrew killed (her?) pigeons.

I think the family interactions were psychologically complicated. I do think Andrew tried to calm both daughters, and especially Lizzie, using money favors—and his motivations were likely a complex mix. He likely felt some degree of love, possibly guilt (let’s just say, generally, for inadequate parenting), and sympathy for Lizzie losing her mother so early. He may also have felt some compassion for her peculiar nature or been trying to manage it.

But I believe he was also frustrated and resentful at Lizzie and Emma’s objections to his financial control, especially his Fourth St. house gift to Abby. Andrew sent his daughters mixed messages. He’d give a financial gift, but leave his room key on the mantel, possibly as a taunt. He’d give Lizzie her choice of paint color for the house (usurping Abby’s proper right to this choice), yet put the pigeons he’d killed where Lizzie could seem them about to be prepared for dinner. He’d buy back the Ferry St. house from the daughters, yet begin to make plans (once again in secret from the girls!—but probably leaked to them by JVMorse) for the transfer to Abby of the Swansea farms.

And if was going to make a will, Lizzie and Emma were also being kept in the dark about this, and grew increasingly—disproportionately, probably—paranoid that they’d be left with little. Or maybe they were right? The fact that they feared this shows they perceived Andrew’s anger, or disgust, or deteriorated love for them, and believed that meant he would deprive them monetarily.

So, I see a pattern of emotional ambivalence in Andrew’s actions with respect to Lizzie. She reacted with strong emotion, and this, added to her growing frustration and resentment, built the anger which resulted in the murders. The money was important, as she probably thought that spending it on the right house, right clothes, right style was the key to her entree to society. But it was to stop Abby and Andrew’s holding her back, and to punish them for it, that was the chief motive for Lizzie’s crimes, I think.
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by PossumPie »

Great post Reasonwhy! I've often wondered how years of charity work meshed with a sociopathic personality. While most people volunteer to give back to the community, some do it for the accolades. A question for the group: Did Emma participate in volunteer/charitable work as well?
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

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PossumPie wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:59 am I did some sleuthing since this thread started. Lizzie's "Europe trip" was nearly 5 months. The cost of a trip like that would have been beyond most people's reach.
--partial
Thank you for the info you included about the value and costs of a Grand Tour. That was helpful.
I had hoped there would have been attribution to Parallel Lives, so that I needn't have looked it up, myself, as I have not yet read that book. (I have arthritis in my wrists and cannot hold or carry the book, it's too heavy.) All I did was confirm your source, not intending to have it thought I was debating the time frame of the trip. I found it interesting to compare with Rebello.
And may I ask what Stefani has to do with it, please? Is she a source?
" Was it because Andrew had paid for Emma to go to school and Lizzie didn't? My father paid for my college education, but my sister didn't want to go to college, so he gave her a 4-acre lot for her and her husband to build a house on to be "fair"
--partial, same post
I posted the timeline in response to this statement, also, not as an argument against what was queried. It was written in the form of a question, after all.
I thought it was significant, and worth putting into context, as a response, to show Emma going away to school near the time of Andrew's new marriage. And yes, that would have been costly, as well.
Was she "sent away" because she was acting out, disrupting the household? Ferry St was full of family members at the time. Or maybe she went away to school because she wanted to, and looked forward to making new friends...etc. We can think of a lot of reasons. And then try to imagine the household upon Emma's return! :wink:

Finally, when I posted the article purported to be by Mrs. Brigham as she defended Lizzie, I realized it had already been included in another topic, it's inclusion there was offered as an effort to be fair, or soften a stance.
It was appreciated. My point now, is that there are sometimes different interpretations of the material we have at our hands, and also often there is a way to include a source in aid of one's stance, and another, equally compelling against. What we choose to use to aid us, may have an opposing source useful in a dispute. Oftentimes, we use the one to bolster our theory, and make a choice not to use one that contradicts. That's human nature, of course.
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Kat »

--For instance, quoting Camgarsky:
"1892 AJB mentions family issues delaying his trip to Swansea (JJ pg 258 Cyrus Rousenville)--partial
We have, on the other hand, source (JJ pg 12 Hiram Cook Borden) that states that Mr Borden could not get the lady they usually relied on at the Swansea farm, at the time, but would go if she could go.
--sorry to use you as an example, camgarsky...it could just as well be what Mrs Brigham said vs. everything else :wink:
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Kat »

Interesting reading on the possible character of Lizzie:
(Here is one of her live links)
https://changingminds.org/explanations/ ... abetic.htm
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Kat »

And, the rest, by Allen, same date, end of post:
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Kat »

I think Lizzie was her father's daughter and she ultimately became like him. Quid Pro Quo
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by camgarsky4 »

Kat -- fair challenge on whether I've cherry picked the facts. Below is why in my intentionally brief chronology above I focused on Rounseville's JJ quote.

Rounseville was vice-president of two banks and someone AJB might view as a 'fellow comrade' in Fall River's unofficial caste system.

Rounseville summoned as a potential witness at Trial. Not called to testify.
Knowlton Papers. Pg. 185
This summons was issued May 1893....at this very late date in the pre-trial period, Knowlton still considered Rounseville as a potentially useful witness. I doubt it was to explain that Andrew had staffing challenges at Swansea. As with other summoned potential witnesses, we don't know why he wasn't called to testify.

Boston Advertiser Oct 11th 1892. The underlined, red sentence is self-explanatory.
'Mr. Borden talked with Secretary Rounseville of the Manufacturer's Association
shortly before his death' (actually only a few days before) 'about his family
affairs. He told Mr. Rounseville that he was not living at his farm during the
summer because there was so much trouble in his family that he did not feel like
going....'


Rounseville told defense attorney Phillips about the reason. JJ Pg. 258.
"Told Phillips that Mr. Borden Speaking to him about going over to the farm for the summer said "His family affairs were such this summer that he would not be able to go."

When this documentation is read as a whole, it leads me to believe that AJB did indeed air some dirty laundry with Mr. Rounseville.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding Hiram Borden and his statements to Phillips. Hiram was AJB's cousin and janitor of the AJB Bldg. That implies to me that he was hired to provide a blue-collar job to a family member and Hiram seems an unlikely confidant for AJB. The JJ Pg. 12 notation says "Mr. Borden said in his presence....". My takeaway is that Andrew was explaining his Swansea situation to more than one person and wouldn't have opened up the families dirty laundry in that general of a fashion. I can picture a handful of folks out in a hallway at the AJB Bldg. asking each other about summer plans.

That said, I do think that AJB & Abby were wanting to go over to the farm the later part of murder week, but a sudden illness and death ended those plans. Morse testifies that the Borden's told him this was their intention. My supposition is that Andrew felt he had defused the situation with the house gift and combined with Emma's 'vacation and Lizzie's ensuing trip to Marion, he could finally spend a few days at the farm and take a deep breath.

My interpretation of all this info? Viewing the summer as a whole, the Borden family had such strife that the elders didn't feel they could leave the home for a lengthy duration. However, once he felt he had dealt with the home situation (as noted above), they were planning to visit Swansea in early August. So very possible both Rounseville and Hiram Borden are accurate in their statements.
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

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Kat, thank you for your detailed response post, you bring up some very important issues. Words on a forum don't convey subtle emotion and may seem argumentative when they are not meant to be. I've posted elsewhere that I personally try to find a balance between casual, enjoyable discussion of Lizzie Borden and intense, unenjoyable academic research. Over the years there have been many posters that just pull things out of thin air without proof. The author Christopher Hitchens once said, "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." I try to balance the tedious chore of citing everything new that I assert with enjoying the posts.
The post by Stefani in my assertion that the trip was 19 weeks:

STEFANI POST
JULY 23, 2018

"... He paid for his daughter Emma to attend college, Wheaten, for a year and a half, room and board. He paid for Lizzie to go on her grand tour to Europe for 19 weeks..."
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Kat »

Thank you both for your considered responses. They actually contributed more depth and detail to the topic!
To have Stefani cited was a new one on me...but since she was involved with publication of Paralell Lives, that was likely her source.

Now, if I could lift the dang book.... :roll:
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by camgarsky4 »

I'm pretty positive no one knows if Andrew DID pay for the Europe trip, so hopefully Stefani checks out this post and lets us know if there is clear proof he did or if we think (as I do) that he did pay for it because of the size of the spend involved. I don't recall Parallel Lives providing a definitive answer of how the trip was funded.

Common sense vs. documented proof in this case. Just want to be sure I've got my facts straight.

P.S. Kat - PL is amazingly heavy and cumbersome. Also because it is so heavy, the spine on mine is starting to break because of opening and closing it so often. I think MB mentioned this before, but they coulda, shoulda made it into a 2-3 volume book set. Probably would have doubled their profits without breaking a sweat.
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Kat »

We always said that about The Knowlton Papers too (kind of bulky and unwieldy), and what we got next was Paralell Lives :grin: :shock:

I'd like a handle on the spine, so I could carry it like a decorator's sample book of wallpaper... :wink:
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Reasonwhy
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Reasonwhy »

Kat, one thing helped me—not in the carrying, but at least in the reading: I bought an inexpensive book stand on Amazon, with a fairly deep “ledge.” So at least I can read/mark in it at a comfortable angle (most I saw were adjustable) while sitting at a desk or table. This has come in handy with all of the thicker Borden tomes.
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Kat
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Kat »

Thanks! I have one right next to me, covered with a laptop and pens and pencils, calendars, notepads, notes, calculator, my budget info, bills...you can picture it :oops: it's a rolling table.
I find I retain more when reading with my glasses off, so I need the book on my lap on a few pillows to bring to eye level. But once ensconced, I can't go anywhere! :pirat:
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Reasonwhy »

I used to do Borden work at my dining room table, surrounded by most of what you list; then I moved to the kitchen table, briefly, as I would have to move half of it to even set the table. :oops: Now, I have all the stuff on a desk in a guest bedroom. My husband appreciates not having to see book cover images of bloody hatchets while he eats. But I always have one or two Lizzie books by the bedside. Camgarsky, Possum, and others, where do you do your work on this case?
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Kat
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Kat »

Don't you think my handle idea is a good one? :wink:
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Reasonwhy
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by Reasonwhy »

Yes 👏🏻 But it might still hurt your wrists. What about hanging it (open to the middle) from a leather belt that you could loop around your shoulder? Might be a bit hard on the book, but could be easier on Kat.
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Re: Quid Pro Quo

Post by PossumPie »

Reasonwhy wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:19 am I used to do Borden work at my dining room table, surrounded by most of what you list; then I moved to the kitchen table, briefly, as I would have to move half of it to even set the table. :oops: Now, I have all the stuff on a desk in a guest bedroom. My husband appreciates not having to see book cover images of bloody hatchets while he eats. But I always have one or two Lizzie books by the bedside. Camgarsky, Possum, and others, where do you do your work on this case?
LOL, it seems we who currently post on the forum all suffer from the same thing...we are no spring chickens anymore :wink:
As for my research, I've accumulated much of my Borden documents in electronic format. Of course, a few of the books (Parallel Lives, J.J., etc) are not yet available electronically. I create a "master index" of all of the books and transcripts in PDF format so that I can open one index, type a keyword in, and every place that word occurs pops up in the index. I search for the one entry that I want and Ta-Da! I dislike reading books electronically, though I do have a Kindle, I prefer to hold a book in my hands. BUT, for research, nothing can beat a PDF file. I can highlight it, put notes in the margins, and of course copy/paste selections into the Forum posts. When I was really obsessed with the case years ago I had a spiral notebook that I jotted things in, but I seem to have misplaced it among my extensive book collection.
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." Christopher Hitchens
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