Joseph Tetrault

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camgarsky4
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Joseph Tetrault

Post by camgarsky4 »

Starting a new thread w/ Subject of Tetrault

Post by Cagney
Hi Camgarsky :smile:

I’m not sure when Fred Coggehall started to work for Lizzie, but he wasn’t always a coachman. On March 17, 1898,after Fred was selected to sit as a juror on a murder trial, The Boston Globe reported that he was a stable keeper; it also reported that he was “a native of Westport, Mass but has resided in Fall River since childhood. He is 33 years of age and a hatter by trade. He followed that occupation up til a few years ago when he became associated with his father, A. H. Coggeshall, in the livery business on 2nd St... He has the reputation of being a man of good judgement and strong convictions.”

He married Hannah Reynolds in 1903, and his marriage record noted his occupation as coachman and his residence as 306 French St., but the city directories don’t list Fred as living there. In 1903, the infamous Joseph Tetrault is listed as living at 306 French as a coachman. I couldn’t locate any other references to Fred working at Maplecroft after 1903.

When Lizzie died in 1927, The Boston Globe identified the pallbearers “as Fred Coggeshall, Norman Hall, former employees of Miss Borden, Ernest Terry, chauffeur in her employ at the time of her death, and Edeson Robinson.” Norman Hall was a former chauffeur and Edson Robinson was Lizzie’s cousin (mentioned in her will).



Post by camgarsky4 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:32 am

Looks like there were a couple of other fascinating "Joseph Tetrault's" in Fall River at same time as Lizzie's version.

Per the Evening Herald, Joseph Tetrault Sr. died May, 1911. His son, Joseph Tetrault Jr. (Fall River native) was a federal secret service agent. In the late 1890's, Jr. rode a bicycle across the country. Same article mentions Sr. was quite a runner in his time.

Just more interesting stuff as we browse the records.....



Post by CagneyBT » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:50 pm

Trying to track down Joseph H. Tetrault/Tatro is quite the challenge. I know that KGDevil has done his research, as have many others on the forum. Tetrault is featured in quite a few forum discussions, especially in regard to his relationship to Lizzie and his possible involvement in the estrangement between the sisters.

https://lizzieandrewborden.com/LBForum/ ... php?t=5924
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/LBForum/ ... php?t=5944
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/LBForum/ ... .php?p=690
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/LBForum/ ... f=1&t=5963

I'm a glutton for punishment, so I decided to accept the challenge, based on information that's already known and discussed, Some of what I've found may be new to the forum.

According to the Fall River Daily Herald of Aug. 28, 1895, William Whitworth and a man named Gallins, opened a “tonsorial palor” (barber shop) on 32 Second St. Joseph H. Tatro, hairdresser, is listed at that address from 1897-1900 (city directories).

Joseph Tetrault, coachman, is listed at 306 French St in the 1901, 1903, 1904, and 1906 city directories. (In 1906, he is listed as Joseph H. Tetrault).

In 1908, Joseph H. Tetrault is reported “removed to Providence” in the directory. (A Joseph Tetrault Jr. also removed this year).

During the period that Tetrault the coachman is listed at 306 French St., there are no listings for a Joseph H. Tatro, hairdresser. We can surmise then, that Tetrault and Tatro are one and the same person. Keep in mind that the 1900 census noted the coachman as “Tatro.”

Why the name change in the directories? Perhaps Joseph H. Tatro, befitting his new position on “The Hill,” reverted to the more elegant French spelling of his surname. Or, the directory enumerator took it upon himself to note the more formal spelling. We can’t know.

However, here’s an example of how Tetrault and Tatro can be one and the same person:

A gentleman’s social club called “The Thirty Associates” was formed in April 1899. It’s name came from the number of members, which was limited to 30. Its members were not Fall River’s elite. They were railroad conductors, painters, bakers, clerks, etc. In fact, William H. McKenney, president of the club, was a barber. The club was located at the corner of S. Main & Columbia Sts.

The club had been formed to “promote sociability” and was very active in the Fall River community from 1899-1903. Its members organized “moonlight excursions” by boat, dances, ladies’ nights, band concerts, clambakes, and ice cream socials.

On Nov. 8, 1900, the Fall River Daily Herald reported that the club had elected new officers. One of them was “Joseph H. Tatro.” However, The Fall River Daily News, when covering the same news item, reported his name as “Joseph Tetrault.”

According to The Fall River Globe on Feb. 13, 1901, for the club’s second annual ball held in Anawam, “Joseph Tetrault” is reported as floor manager and also served on the committee of arrangements. However, The Fall River Evening News, covering the same story, reported his name as “Joseph Tatro.”

On June 7, 1901, The Fall River Daily Herald reported that Joseph H. Tetreault had been elected vice-president of the club. There are no further references to him after this date; the club disbanded in 1903 and reorganized as “The Oxford Club.”

We know Joseph left Lizzie’s employ c. 1908 for Providence. After that, he’s nearly impossible to trace due to the number of Joseph Tetraults and Tatros listed as barbers in Rhode Island.

However, the Joseph H. Tatro who died in Cuyahoga, Cleveland, Ohio on Aug. 10, 1929 may provide a few clues. According to his death certificate, he was born Feb. 9, 1863 in N. Kingstown, R.I. Based on the surviving relatives listed in his obituary, I was able to trace the family to Wickford, Rhode Island...specifically to a village called Allentown. This Joseph H. Tatro was also a resident of Fall River. The following are excerpts from the local newspaper, The Wickford Standard:

“Joseph Tatro spent Thanksgiving Day here with his mother” (Allentown) The Standard, Dec. 3, 1897.

“Joseph H. Tatro of Fall River Mass, paid a visit to his brother-in-law, George H. Straight, this week.” April 14, 1899, The Standard, (NOTE: George H. Straight was married to Joseph’s half-sister Ida Delia in 1881.)

“Joseph Tatro of Fall River is visiting his mother for a few days.” (this item appeared in the same edition as above).

“Joseph Tatro of Fall River, Mass is spending a few days with his brother, Fred, at the latter’s home in Silver Spring.”(Allentown) The Standard, May 23, 1902.

“Joseph Tatro of Fall River, has been the guest of his mother the past week.” The Standard, June 16, 1905.

“Joseph Tatro, who has been spending the past week with his mother in this village (Allentown) has returned to Fall River.” The Standard, Oct. 20, 1905. (NOTE: His mother, Almedia Fanion Tatro, died in Nov. 1905.)

There are references to Joseph’s family in the same newspaper, namely, his father, Peter, and his siblings, Julia Tatro, Mary Tatro Asselin, Fred Tatro, Frank Tatro and Edward Tatro, who lived in Westerly in 1896.

The last item related to Joseph Tatro is from The Standard dated Jan. 5, 1917: “Joseph H. Tatro sold to George H. Eldred lot of land on southerly side of road leading from Allentown to Slocum.”

We can assume that Joseph left Rhode Island soon after selling his property and relocated to Cleveland to join his relatives there. He’s listed in the Cleveland directory as a janitor at the Rose Mary Home in 1923.

His obituary reads: Tatro-Joseph H., age 66 years, residence, 1872 Brightwood Street. East Cleveland, brother of Fred A., Edward P., Frank A., Mary E. Asselin and Julia E. Lynch. Funeral from S. H. Johnston Funeral Home, 15314 Macauley Avenue corner E. 152d Street and Lake Shore Boulevard, Monday, Aug. 12, at 1 p. m. Evening Bulletin, Providence, R. I., please copy.

According to a tree on ancestry.com, Joseph’s younger sister, Julia, married a man named Lynch in 1902, They had a son named Kenneth, born in Providence, R.I. in Feb. 1906. The son’s middle name was Borden. The middle name is odd, as there was no apparent connection to any Bordens in the Tatro/Lynch tree.

As Alice in Wonderland remarked, 'Curiouser and curiouser!”
camgarsky4
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Re: Joseph Tetrault

Post by camgarsky4 »

Cagney --
Extract from Cagney post above.
"Keep in mind that the 1900 census noted the coachman as “Tatro.”

Can you tell who he was a coachman for in 1900? That seems to be the transition year from barber to coachman.
Tatro and Tetrault likely do sound almost identical when pronouncing the 2nd syllable with a 'french' accent.

Did you see anything about the 'second' Joseph Tetrault and son that I mention in post above? Any chance they are part of your storyline above?
CagneyBT
Posts: 148
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Re: Joseph Tetrault

Post by CagneyBT »

Hi Camgarsky! :smile:

He was the coachman for Lizzie per the 1900 census (below is from ancestry.com):

Name:John H Tatro
[James H Tatro]
[Joseph H Tatro Tetrault)]
Age: 37
Birth Date: Feb 1863
Birthplace: Rhode Island, USA
Home in 1900: Fall River Ward 8, Bristol, Massachusetts
Street: Underwood French High
House Number: 306
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House:Coachman
Marital Status: Single
Father's Birthplace: Rhode Island, USA
Mother's Birthplace: Rhode Island, USA
Occupation: Cachman
Can Read: Yes
Can Write: Yes
Can Speak English: Yes
Household Members Age Relationship
Emma L Borden 49 Head
Lizza A Borden 39 Sister
Annie E Smith 29 Servant
John H Tatro 37 Coachman

It would require more research to determine the idenity and/or relationship to the second Joseph Tetrault who also went to Providence in 1908. Tracing any of the Tetraults is quite an undertaking!
camgarsky4
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:05 pm
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Re: Joseph Tetrault

Post by camgarsky4 »

I had never heard of the 2nd way to spell his name....Tatro. I was thinking this was new info until I found the thread below from 2017.

Seems like Tatro being listed in 1890 directory as working for Lizzie, is a VERY strong indication that Tetrault and Tatro are one and the same.
Last edited by camgarsky4 on Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
camgarsky4
Posts: 1390
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:05 pm
Real Name: George Schuster

Re: Joseph Tetrault

Post by camgarsky4 »

Camgarsky4 copied and pasted the string below from 2017 on the subject of Tetrault. KGDevil, Interestedreader and MB are the participants in this banter.

Re: Assumed names
Post by mbhenty » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:45 am


The absorbing thing about the Borden case is that there's always someone coming up with a new angle to who did the murders or who was involved.

So let me throw one of my own out there.

Joseph Tetrault killed Andrew and Abby Borden.

Hey, why not... what the heck.

consider this:

Did you know that around the turn of the century a Joseph Tetrault, who was a hair dresser, had his place of business a block or two from 92 Second street, and his residence on Spring street just 200 feet from the Borden place, lived that close to the murder house at one time? Coincidence or subject? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Now no one's ever looked that that one, eh?


Re: Assumed names
Post by mbhenty » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:45 pm


Above I talk about how government officials and how they may have been responsible for getting Tetrault's name wrong.

On a personal level, I lived on Webster and Raymond Streets for 4 years and governments officials missed two of them, and had no evidence that I ever lived on Webster Street. So city directories and officials are not fallible.

Just yesterday I was doing some research for the Fall River Historical Society, who just had a book about Fall River history published and released this week, and discovered an error by happenstance.

Listed was an assistant treasurer, Cyrus Roundsville, from the Shove Mills who was listed as living at 364 French Street in the nineteen twenties. Immediately, I recognized that there is, and never was, a 364 French Street. (generally because I live in the 300 block of French Street) The last house on French Street is the Hooper House and that is 344. So they got Mr. Roundsville address wrong. Not only that, but one year they even got Mr. Rounsville name wrong, calling him 'Townsville'. Years later corrections were made.

Though corrections were made, get your name wrong at the checkin desk at Ellis Island or any other entry port, chances are you are stuck with it.

:study:

So just because it's listed in a newspaper, directory, or census report, doesn't make it necessarily so.
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1921......jpg


Re: Assumed names
Post by KGDevil » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:01 am


mbhenty wrote:
The absorbing thing about the Borden case is that there's always someone coming up with a new angle to who did the murders or who was involved.

So let me throw one of my own out there.

Joseph Tetrault killed Andrew and Abby Borden.

Hey, why not... what the heck.

consider this:

Did you know that around the turn of the century a Joseph Tetrault, who was a hair dresser, had his place of business a block or two from 92 Second street, and his residence on Spring street just 200 feet from the Borden place, lived that close to the murder house at one time? Coincidence or subject? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Now no one's ever looked that that one, eh?
Actually, MB, in my research on Tetrault I did research the hairdresser on Second Street. I included him in my thread on this subject. He is listed as having his business on Second Street and always consistently named as Joseph H. Tatro, never Tetrault, in city directories from at least 1897 - 1900. Earlier, if my memory serves. In fact, he's listed at this address in 1899-1900 when Tetrault was known to have been employed, and residing, at Maplecroft. So, I discount him. Also, the barbers have been traced in Rhode Island as well. Both married with children in Rhode Island at their times of death. And, as an aside, if the Joseph Tetrault of Borden fame had moved to Rhode in 1908, as the story goes, either he had a son, or his father's name was also Joseph H. Tetrault.
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Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle


Re: Assumed names
Post by mbhenty » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:30 pm


Yes KGdevil:

I have read many of your posts. You appear very knowledgeable on the case and some of your research is right on the money and very thorough.

Of course, I jest when I mention Tetrault as the killer. And you are right. The fellow on Second and on Spring Streets was named Tatro. (In all honesty, I had to investigate that one myself) What is interesting is that the year Tatro, the hairdresser on Second Street, disappears from the FR directory, Joseph "Tetrault" makes his first appearance. To play the odds with any favoritism we would have to assume these are two different people.

The coincidence is appealing though and cheers one on to do more research. But we just don't know. Could Tatro have changed his name. If I had to bank on it I would have to say probably not, and that it's all happenstance. Not enough proof. Just circumstantial serendipity.

When my grandfather first came to this country he used a different name. He dropped his last name and in turn used his middle surname as his Last Name. My grilfriend's father did something similar when he came over to the US from the middle east. So such uncertainty in one's name was more common than we could surmise. Another friend of mine told me that his real name was O'Sullivan, but when his father came over from Ireland he dropped the "O'". So, I imagine that this happened a lot and I suspect that there could be some degree of error with Tetrault's name, intentional or otherwise.

Or perhaps not. (?) In any event studying such matters keeps our historical juices flowing as we infiltrate every corner and historical records in our attempt to understand this crime, Llzzie's life, and those around her in general.

In the end I was wrong in my conjecture in reference to the spelling of Tatro and Teatrault, the one at Maplecroft and the one on Second and Spring Streets. I was certain and in error to assume the spellings were the same. :roll: :oops:


Re: Assumed names
Post by Interested1 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:24 pm


Hi. I just joined, so my ‘two cents’ might be redundant. I do a lot of genealogy. My ancestors were mostly French Canadian (FC) . Most men were named Joseph Something Something. LastName. So, I have found that if Joseph is the only first name you are working with, it’s not very helpful.
Also, FC’s frequently had a’dit name’ which is difficult to explain its purpose. It’s not exactly an alias in the sense that we would think of it today, but it was to differentiate from others with that same last name.
In addition, as far as different spellings of FC last names... even within families there were variants. That makes everything more difficult.
CagneyBT
Posts: 148
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Real Name: Joan

Re: Joseph Tetrault

Post by CagneyBT »

More information regarding Joseph H. Tatro who died in Ohio:

According to the Cleveland city directories, Joseph H. Tatro and Ernst Emil Stauber, a German immigrant, maintained a barber shop at 9403 Quincy Ave in 1911 & 1912. We know Joseph sold his land in Allentown, Rhode Island in 1917; there are no further listings for Joseph in Cleveland from 1913-1923. so he may have left Cleveland for R.I. after the barber shop presumably closed.

In August 1924, Joseph’s former partner, Ernst Stauber, applied for a passport and Joseph H. Tatro was a witness. In a personal affidavit, Joseph stated that he was a cook & his residence was 1872 Brightwood Ave. He further stated that he had known Ernst for 14 years. Ernst’s occupation in 1924 is also given as “cook.” However, Ernst’s naturalization papers from 1901 give his occupation as “barber.”

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVJG-GFD5
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGNY-6GLL


Note: The only other Joseph Tatro listed in the Cleveland directories during this period is Joseph D. Tatro on Pear St. who was a carpenter. He was married with a large family.
I8yourpie
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Real Name: Denise Higgins Wells

Re: Joseph Tetrault

Post by I8yourpie »

My husbands 3xs great grandma was Marie Hermoine (sp) Tatro. Her father was Peter Tatro (Tetrault) he did not read or write so I am assuming it was written phonetically once he came to the USA. Marie Hermoine's brother was Joseph Tatro who worked for the Borden sisters. Here is a biography for Joseph:


Tatro, Joseph H., head man for the Bordens, white, male, born Feb., 1863, age 37, single, born in Rhode Island, father born in Rhode Island, mother born in Rhode Island, occupation, head
man.

Note: Joseph H. Tatro, also spelled Tetrault, was employed by Emma and Lizzie Borden from 1899-1902 and 1904-1908. When Emma left Lizzie in 1905, newspapers reported that Emma Borden did not like Mr. Tetrault nor his "doings or position as coachman." He had been dismissed and returned to his job as a barber. He was later rehired as coachman and remained at French Street until 1908. "Miss Emma is said to have still found offense in his comfortable preferment. Tetrault was a fine looking young man and reported to be very popular among the ladies, although Miss Emma took a dislike to him." Mr. Tetrault left Fall River in 1908 and moved to Providence, Rhode Island.

At a later date Joseph moved to Cleveland Ohio. He lived with his sister Mary Elizabeth "Mamie" Tatro Assline. Joseph died in Cleveland 10 August 1929 of stomach cancer. His occupation at the time of death was listed as cook or chef
camgarsky4
Posts: 1390
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Re: Joseph Tetrault

Post by camgarsky4 »

18yourpie --

Hi! Welcome to the forum!

Is there any family lore or scuttlebutt on the relationship between Tetrault and Lizzie?
I8yourpie
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2023 4:49 am
Real Name: Denise Higgins Wells

Re: Joseph Tetrault

Post by I8yourpie »

Nothing that I know of but I have been searching old newspapers. I will post any new info. Thank you for the welcome, nice being here.
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