Based on the various testimonies & newspaper accounts, around early/mid July, 1892, Lizzie was planning a trip with friends to Marion for an extended holiday at the Handy cottage; as was the annual event, the Andrew & Abby were expecting to spend a chunk of their summer at their Swansea farm; and Emma made plans to visit Fairhaven for several weeks.
Just a couple weeks later most of their plans had changed. Lizzie had cancelled Marion (she did stop in for a single day) and instead visited New Bedford for a long weekend; the elder Borden's did not go to Swansea; and Emma followed thru on her plan to visit Fairhaven.
Lizzie told her 'Marion' friends at church on the 17th that she wouldn't join them because her father would need lunch meals at Second St. if Abby was at the Swansea farm. Her friends pointed out that he could go to restaurants, but she insisted on staying. Not sure why they didn't ask about Bridget preparing his meals since that is what she did already every day and was her primary job.
In spite of backing out of Marion to stay in Fall River, just four days later (July 21), Lizzie went ahead and joined Emma on the train bound for New Bedford/Fairhaven. The Marion 'girls' left for the Handy cottage the very next day on the 22nd. So after Lizzie said she couldn't leave town, she did just that a few days later. Presumably, since the Marion trip was pre-planned, so she likely gave the Pool/Tripp's short notice of her intent to visit them. On top of that, it wasn't like Lizzie was a frequent visitor to the Pool's....in Jennings Journals, Nancy Pool mentions that Lizzie's last trip to her home was 2 years prior.
Lizzie then goes back to Fall River after spending 5ish days in New Bedford/Westport. Then she does a day trip to Marion on July 30, just 3 days after returning from New Bedford and five days before the murders.....3 days before the 'poisoning'.
And after all of that back and forth, the elder Borden's did not go to Swansea.
Lots of questions arise out of these travel changes, but #1 is why she backed out of the Marion trip, but left town anyway. Marion and New Bedford are both easy day trips, so nothing stopped her from going to Marion with the friends, but still coming back on July 26th like she did.
If you buy the 'take care of father' story, why couldn't Lizzie have asked her father to send her a letter a day before they planned to leave for Swansea and she could come back on the train to make sure he ate his noon meals? I'd also imagine that Dr. Handy's cottage had a telephone.
p.s. I've intentionally left out the excuse that she didn't go to Marion because she had a meeting obligation to attend to Sunday August 7th. That explanation just seems silly to me once you factor in the ease and speed of commuting to Marion. She could have gone to Marion back on the 22nd and returned to Fall River any day prior to the 7th. At the inquest, Knowlton should have really focused on making her explain that a bit better.
Summer Plans gone awry
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camgarsky4
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Kat
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
In attempting to reply to this thoughtful enquiry, I thought maybe a “Lizzie Timeline” of her plans, and the changes, could illustrate and simplify your narrative, and would be helpful?
There’s enough research there in the question, though, and thorough, but I’m a bit lost…sorry.
In my family, plans change monthly, weekly, daily, hourly and even at the last minute. (I know, right?
)
So I was looking at what Lizzie did do, and not what she didn’t, and am figuring you are getting at the speculation that she had to be at Second Street, August Fourth, to kill the elder 1/2 of her family?
What she did do, was buy a dress pattern, and when asked about it, she seemed to stumble a bit, like she does, when she’s thinking about her answer. (Like when asked the question: where was your sister Emma that day? She answers “What day?”) When Lizzie does that, I figure it’s either an important question or I am forced to remember she was on meds.
What was important about the dress pattern?
Mrs. Poole as recorded by Jennings:
Sat morning after breakfast she went down street & when she came home she brot home this dress pattern & bunch of sweet peas Know it was Sat because she said bot them because ours are wilted & they will be pretty for Sunday Sat afternoon we went to Fairhaven & took little boy with me – think when we came home I got something at Market – She was’nt out of my sight as walked – told me about getting Frank’s pills
Sorry, the next section could not copy paste, it was a pdf. Plz click on it to make it bigger.
(I also would ask if the elder Bordens could have been killed at the farm? Maybe there was a plan they should die at the farm, and the fact they did not go, there had to be a “Plan B?”)
There’s enough research there in the question, though, and thorough, but I’m a bit lost…sorry.
In my family, plans change monthly, weekly, daily, hourly and even at the last minute. (I know, right?
)So I was looking at what Lizzie did do, and not what she didn’t, and am figuring you are getting at the speculation that she had to be at Second Street, August Fourth, to kill the elder 1/2 of her family?
What she did do, was buy a dress pattern, and when asked about it, she seemed to stumble a bit, like she does, when she’s thinking about her answer. (Like when asked the question: where was your sister Emma that day? She answers “What day?”) When Lizzie does that, I figure it’s either an important question or I am forced to remember she was on meds.
What was important about the dress pattern?
Mrs. Poole as recorded by Jennings:
Sat morning after breakfast she went down street & when she came home she brot home this dress pattern & bunch of sweet peas Know it was Sat because she said bot them because ours are wilted & they will be pretty for Sunday Sat afternoon we went to Fairhaven & took little boy with me – think when we came home I got something at Market – She was’nt out of my sight as walked – told me about getting Frank’s pills
Sorry, the next section could not copy paste, it was a pdf. Plz click on it to make it bigger.
(I also would ask if the elder Bordens could have been killed at the farm? Maybe there was a plan they should die at the farm, and the fact they did not go, there had to be a “Plan B?”)
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Last edited by Kat on Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:02 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Kat
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
And the rest about the dress pattern:
Hilliard-Trial
Q. Was there any other article of clothing or for clothing that you received?
A. None that I know of from Miss Lizzie.
Q. Did you call for a dress pattern?
A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Did you hear anybody?
A. No, sir, not any of the times that I was there myself.
Q. Do you know that a dress pattern was got from the house?
A. I believe that Mr. Jennings and I think it was Mr. Harrington, I won't be sure but I think it was him that had a dress pattern brought from the house.
Q. And where is it now?
A. I don't know, sir.
Q. Was it returned or not?
A. I think it was in Mr. Jennings' custody; I don't know where it is.
Q. You haven't it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Was it examined by you at all?
A. No, sir, it was in the court room; I did not look at it.
MR. ROBINSON. (Addressing Government counsel) Have you
Page 1147
that?
MR. KNOWLTON. We attached no significance to that in reference to this matter, and dropped it.
MR. ROBINSON. It had no significance at
———————————————————
Prelim
Q. (Mr. Knowlton) Mr. Hilliard, did you look in the trunks in the attic?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. All of them?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you examine their contents?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you see anything up there of an unmade dress pattern in the attic?
Page 428
A. Well, there was some of the trunks that I looked into, but I did not look into all of them. I did not, to my recollection, see any dress pattern in any of the trunks that I saw.
Q. What other officer looked in the trunks in the attic besides you?
A. I think Mr. Seaver, I am not sure but what Mr. Fleet did. I think Mr. Desmond.
Q. Have you been to inquire for a dress pattern there since?
A. I have not, but under my orders other officers have.
Q. Who did go?
A. Mr. Fleet.
Q. Have you been able to get the dress pattern, or any dress pattern?
A. No Sir.
Q. When was it you sent for it?
A. I think the first officer that went there was Mr. Medley. After that, I think, I am pretty positive I sent the Assistant Marshal. Week before last I think was the first time the officer went there. I think Mr. Fleet was there a week ago last Saturday night. I think he was there some day the first part of the week, of last week.
Q. And you have not got it?
A. No Sir.
(Mr. Knowlton) I now call for it, Brother Jennings, and ask you to bring it, not now, but this afternoon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seaver Prelim
Q. You looked in all Marshal Hilliard did not?
A. I think Marshal Hilliard looked in one or two trunks that I did not see in.
Q. In all but one or two, you looked?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you see anything of a dress pattern not made up, there?
A. No Sir.
Q. Did you see the trunks Mr. Fleet looked into, did you look into the contents of them?
A. I did not.
Q. You did not find any dress pattern at all up there in the garret?
A. Not up there.
Q. How many trunks were there up there?
A. I could not tell you, I think three or four.
Q. In the attic?
A. Yes, that is, trunks and large boxes.
RE-DIRECT.
Q. (Mr. Jennings) Do you know who opened that trunk that had the numerous springs on it?
A. Marshal Hilliard.
Q. Sure about that?
A. Do you mean that first opened it?
Q. Yes.
A. He went to that trunk first; I was there and attempted to assist him.
Q. Who finally got it open?
A. Capt. Desmond I think. I think Marshal Hilliard was the first one who went to it. I think your attention was called to it, and mind, and I do not know but two or three others.
Q. Did you look into that trunk to see if there was anything in it?
A. No Sir.
Q. You do not know whether there was any dress pattern there or not?
A. No, Marshal Hilliard was there; I suppose he was taking care of that; and I went into the other room.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
458
(Mr. Knowlton) I made some public allusion to the dress pattern. I am satisfied that is the dress pattern; so that whatever may have been supposed to have been in the case, is out of it. I say that in justice to the defendant. I ought to say I never supposed there was anything about it; I simply wanted to see it, that is all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.?????? What’s with that?
Hilliard-Trial
Q. Was there any other article of clothing or for clothing that you received?
A. None that I know of from Miss Lizzie.
Q. Did you call for a dress pattern?
A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Did you hear anybody?
A. No, sir, not any of the times that I was there myself.
Q. Do you know that a dress pattern was got from the house?
A. I believe that Mr. Jennings and I think it was Mr. Harrington, I won't be sure but I think it was him that had a dress pattern brought from the house.
Q. And where is it now?
A. I don't know, sir.
Q. Was it returned or not?
A. I think it was in Mr. Jennings' custody; I don't know where it is.
Q. You haven't it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Was it examined by you at all?
A. No, sir, it was in the court room; I did not look at it.
MR. ROBINSON. (Addressing Government counsel) Have you
Page 1147
that?
MR. KNOWLTON. We attached no significance to that in reference to this matter, and dropped it.
MR. ROBINSON. It had no significance at
———————————————————
Prelim
Q. (Mr. Knowlton) Mr. Hilliard, did you look in the trunks in the attic?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. All of them?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you examine their contents?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you see anything up there of an unmade dress pattern in the attic?
Page 428
A. Well, there was some of the trunks that I looked into, but I did not look into all of them. I did not, to my recollection, see any dress pattern in any of the trunks that I saw.
Q. What other officer looked in the trunks in the attic besides you?
A. I think Mr. Seaver, I am not sure but what Mr. Fleet did. I think Mr. Desmond.
Q. Have you been to inquire for a dress pattern there since?
A. I have not, but under my orders other officers have.
Q. Who did go?
A. Mr. Fleet.
Q. Have you been able to get the dress pattern, or any dress pattern?
A. No Sir.
Q. When was it you sent for it?
A. I think the first officer that went there was Mr. Medley. After that, I think, I am pretty positive I sent the Assistant Marshal. Week before last I think was the first time the officer went there. I think Mr. Fleet was there a week ago last Saturday night. I think he was there some day the first part of the week, of last week.
Q. And you have not got it?
A. No Sir.
(Mr. Knowlton) I now call for it, Brother Jennings, and ask you to bring it, not now, but this afternoon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seaver Prelim
Q. You looked in all Marshal Hilliard did not?
A. I think Marshal Hilliard looked in one or two trunks that I did not see in.
Q. In all but one or two, you looked?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you see anything of a dress pattern not made up, there?
A. No Sir.
Q. Did you see the trunks Mr. Fleet looked into, did you look into the contents of them?
A. I did not.
Q. You did not find any dress pattern at all up there in the garret?
A. Not up there.
Q. How many trunks were there up there?
A. I could not tell you, I think three or four.
Q. In the attic?
A. Yes, that is, trunks and large boxes.
RE-DIRECT.
Q. (Mr. Jennings) Do you know who opened that trunk that had the numerous springs on it?
A. Marshal Hilliard.
Q. Sure about that?
A. Do you mean that first opened it?
Q. Yes.
A. He went to that trunk first; I was there and attempted to assist him.
Q. Who finally got it open?
A. Capt. Desmond I think. I think Marshal Hilliard was the first one who went to it. I think your attention was called to it, and mind, and I do not know but two or three others.
Q. Did you look into that trunk to see if there was anything in it?
A. No Sir.
Q. You do not know whether there was any dress pattern there or not?
A. No, Marshal Hilliard was there; I suppose he was taking care of that; and I went into the other room.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
458
(Mr. Knowlton) I made some public allusion to the dress pattern. I am satisfied that is the dress pattern; so that whatever may have been supposed to have been in the case, is out of it. I say that in justice to the defendant. I ought to say I never supposed there was anything about it; I simply wanted to see it, that is all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.?????? What’s with that?
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Kat
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
And, Bordens not going to farm, just for source:
The Jennings Journals,1892, Editors Martins, Binette, Koorey, Fall River Historical Society Press, 2021
Phillips: in Jennings Journal
Pg12
Borden, Hiram – Says Mr B said in his presence that the reason he hadn’t gone over to his farm was because he couldn’t get the woman he had last year. She was engaged but he was going over if she could get released.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Phillips: in Jennings Journal
Pg 258
Rounseville – told Phillips that Mr Borden speaking to him about going over to his farm for the summer said “His family affairs were such this summer that he would not be able to go.”
The Jennings Journals,1892, Editors Martins, Binette, Koorey, Fall River Historical Society Press, 2021
Phillips: in Jennings Journal
Pg12
Borden, Hiram – Says Mr B said in his presence that the reason he hadn’t gone over to his farm was because he couldn’t get the woman he had last year. She was engaged but he was going over if she could get released.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Phillips: in Jennings Journal
Pg 258
Rounseville – told Phillips that Mr Borden speaking to him about going over to his farm for the summer said “His family affairs were such this summer that he would not be able to go.”
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camgarsky4
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
kat -- you've got me stewing on a couple new angles regarding the pre-murder movements of the family.
I do have a foundational belief that Lizzie's personality was one of a very purposeful, deliberate individual. So making last minute changes to her travel plans would indicate to me some very specific, substantive cause.....medical issues definitely might qualify. Changing her mind on a whim doesn't work for me.....of course, that doesn't mean that wasn't the case.
Anyway, I'll develop my thoughts a bit more and provide the sources they are based on. Look for a follow up post in a couple days!!
One 'fact' clarification....for the last few years, I have spelled the woman Lizzie visited in New Bedford as Nancy Poole.
Per Nancy's May, 24, 1918 death certificate, her name was Nancy Howe Pool and she died in Westport of "Lobor Pneumonia" at the age of 82 1/2 years. I would copy and paste the death certificate, but that is a skill I am lacking.
I do have a foundational belief that Lizzie's personality was one of a very purposeful, deliberate individual. So making last minute changes to her travel plans would indicate to me some very specific, substantive cause.....medical issues definitely might qualify. Changing her mind on a whim doesn't work for me.....of course, that doesn't mean that wasn't the case.
Anyway, I'll develop my thoughts a bit more and provide the sources they are based on. Look for a follow up post in a couple days!!
One 'fact' clarification....for the last few years, I have spelled the woman Lizzie visited in New Bedford as Nancy Poole.
Per Nancy's May, 24, 1918 death certificate, her name was Nancy Howe Pool and she died in Westport of "Lobor Pneumonia" at the age of 82 1/2 years. I would copy and paste the death certificate, but that is a skill I am lacking.
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Kat
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Yes, I see now William Spencer, in his book Case Against Lizzie Borden, brings up the spelling (or perceived misspelling) of “Poole.” Good call- I never noticed that.
Apparently his theory about Lizzie’s purchase of the dress pattern in New Bedford was that Knowlton possibly thought that she might make a dress out of it, wear it to kill, and then burn it.
I guess this would be a dress that no one had seen before and therefore would not miss.
(I’ve personally wondered how anyone could expect to quickly burn a dress wet with blood- which I would think would be her intention to do as soon as she could.)
I do think Lizzie would have had to be very flexible during the time before, during, and after the murders, if she did do it.
Apparently his theory about Lizzie’s purchase of the dress pattern in New Bedford was that Knowlton possibly thought that she might make a dress out of it, wear it to kill, and then burn it.
I guess this would be a dress that no one had seen before and therefore would not miss.
(I’ve personally wondered how anyone could expect to quickly burn a dress wet with blood- which I would think would be her intention to do as soon as she could.)
I do think Lizzie would have had to be very flexible during the time before, during, and after the murders, if she did do it.
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camgarsky4
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
I've never given much credence to the theory that Lizzie would go to New Bedford to purchase dress material to make a 'kill outfit' that she then would burn. If she spent that much time thinking about how to block her body from blood, all the in-house options would have been clear to her. Gossamers, coats, dress w/ paint on it, and aprons for starters.
Additionally, Lizzie could have simply bought dress material in Fall River. Nothing suspicious about buying dress material, I presume all the ladies did it all the time.
Spencer's book is excellent, but the portion about Lizzie visiting the Pool's is one segment that I bet he wishes Jennings Journals had been available before he published his book. Andrew Jennings interview w/ Nancy Pool was far more revealing than what Officer Medley got out of her. Due to this info availability 'miss', Spencer makes a couple statements in the book (ex. Lizzie didn't have any visitors at the Pool's) that in hindsight are incorrect.
Additionally, Lizzie could have simply bought dress material in Fall River. Nothing suspicious about buying dress material, I presume all the ladies did it all the time.
Spencer's book is excellent, but the portion about Lizzie visiting the Pool's is one segment that I bet he wishes Jennings Journals had been available before he published his book. Andrew Jennings interview w/ Nancy Pool was far more revealing than what Officer Medley got out of her. Due to this info availability 'miss', Spencer makes a couple statements in the book (ex. Lizzie didn't have any visitors at the Pool's) that in hindsight are incorrect.
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Kat
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
He also referred to it as ‘“cheap material’”but I hadn’t come across that in relation to the dress pattern bought in New Bedford.
I’ve only skimmed Spencer so far.
But I will say, all that inquiry into that dress pattern made it seem very important to a lot of people for some reason, and not so easily dismissed. And Lizzie stumbled over it. She has “tells”, and that seemed to be one.
But, it could be another of those situations that I call “Look over here- not over there.”
I’ve only skimmed Spencer so far.
But I will say, all that inquiry into that dress pattern made it seem very important to a lot of people for some reason, and not so easily dismissed. And Lizzie stumbled over it. She has “tells”, and that seemed to be one.
But, it could be another of those situations that I call “Look over here- not over there.”
Last edited by Kat on Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kat
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
We’ve got an 1892 calendar!
If you clic on it- will get bigger
If you clic on it- will get bigger
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camgarsky4
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Kat's push on my opening post made me realize my knowledge of the Pool's and Tripp's was superficial. So that got me digging deeper into what the relationship might have been between the Pool's and Lizzie. This is research I should have done before the opening post.
--------------------------------------
Augusta and Lizzie seemingly had a ' home and away' visiting arrangement. In a nutshell, each year they took turns visiting the other's home. We know this was the case for 1890 (Pool/Tripp host), 1891 (Borden's host) and 1892 (Pool/Tripp host). Judged by the length of both the 1891 & '92 episodes, the visits were almost a week in length.
Augusta and Cyrus were married in 1881. Augusta testified that she saw far less of Lizzie after her marriage. Since it would seem reasonable that the two met annually all thru the 1880's, that would imply they got together multiple times a year prior to 1881.
I also suspect that, for the 1892 visit, Lizzie stayed at Nancy & Carrie’s home in New Bedford because Augusta had a household of young children. In 1892, Cyrus and Augusta Tripp had two sons, 10 and 8 year old, and a 4 year old daughter. I've seen a recent photo of the Tripp home on a different Lizzie website, and while it is not a tiny cottage, neither is it large enough to absorb the energy of three youngsters and still provide a restful environment for Lizzie's 'vacation'.
Extending beyond Augusta, Lizzie clearly had an established relationship w/ Carrie and Nancy. Nancy mentioned to Jennings that Lizzie visited them two years ago and that Lizzie had written Mrs. Pool a letter in the days just before to the murders, telling her that Lizzie was going to Marion. Lizzie had talked to Carrie during prior visits about the Borden family strife, specifically her concerns about being left out of any inheritance. It sure seems that Lizzie was visiting people she was familiar with and trusted.
So blending all those insights together, I am now of the opinion that when Augusta stopped by the Borden house for an hour in the Spring of 1892, the ladies finalized plans for Lizzie to visit the Tripp/Pool's in the latter half of the summer. Quite possibly Lizzie's birthday (July 19) was a stimulant for the timing of the trip.
Lizzie didn't change her Marion plans to go to New Bedford, she just didn't change her New Bedford plans when she was invited to go to Marion July 22nd. She was planning to go to Marion after she visited New Bedford. It has finally dawned on me that these two trips were not mutually exclusive.
Of course, this new perspective (for me) does not preclude Lizzie from having a nefarious reason for not going to Marion sooner than August 8. It is still quite the coincidence that she visits Marion on July 31st, gets home in time for the elder Borden's to get violently ill and subsequently violently die....all over the course of 5 days....all of which fell in between Lizzie's actual and planned visit to Marion.
Nor does it mean she didn't partake in activities in New Bedford that were related to the demise of her parents. Doesn't mean she did either.
Random tidbit: Carrie Pool died from a form of tuberculosis on June 18, 1893, two days before Lizzie was acquitted on June 20.
Open questions:
1) Augusta testified that she and Lizzie were classmates around 1875. However, the 1870 and 1880 U.S. census has the Pool trio of ladies living with Nancy's father, George H. Gifford, in Westport, Ma. There appears to not have been a Massachusetts 1875 Census. There are no listings for Nancy Pool or Poole in the Fall River City directories for any years in the 1870's.
That said, presumably Nancy moved herself, Carrie and Augusta to Fall River for a handful of years in the mid-'70's. Not sure where they lived and why this temporary break away from Westport. I can find no record that Nancy got remarried in that timeframe or any sign of a divorce afterwards.
2) What happened to Lizzie and Augusta's seemingly long term and tight relationship? Perhaps their friendship continued until their deaths, but it might be telling that Lizzie left two classmates some $ in her Will, but Augusta D. Tripp was not mentioned.
Sources:
Inquest transcripts of Lizzie Borden, Augusta Tripp & Emma Borden
Jennings Journals: Nancy H. Pool interview w/ Andrew Jennings Pg 251
U.S. Census 1870; 1880 & 1900. Massachusetts State Census 1865.
1881 Westport, Ma. Marriage Register
Lizzie Borden's Last Will & Testament.
Augusta D. Tripp Inquest Testimony. Pages 141-145.
1. She had been a schoolmate w/ Lizzie around 1875.
2. Augusta saw very little of the Borden’s after her marriage.
3. Augusta visited the Borden sisters Monday July 13 to Saturday July 18th. Abby was not at the house at any time; Borden’s told her Abby was staying at the Swansea farm.
4. Augusta ‘stopped by’ the Borden house for about an hour in the Spring of ’92.
5. A couple years prior, Carrie, Augusta’s younger sister told Augusta that Lizzie had mentioned that Lizzie and Emma might not inherit anything from their father.
Other facts:
1. Augusta D. Pool (22 yrs) married Cyrus Tripp (28 yrs), painter, on January 13, 1881.
2. 1865, 1870 and 1880 U.S. and Massachusetts census had Nancy, Augusta and Carrie living with Nancy’s father, George Gifford (Justice of the Peace) in Westport, Ma.
3. Nancy Pool told Andrew Jennings that Lizzie had last visited the Pool’s ‘two years ago’. (likely before the Europe trip)
--------------------------------------
Augusta and Lizzie seemingly had a ' home and away' visiting arrangement. In a nutshell, each year they took turns visiting the other's home. We know this was the case for 1890 (Pool/Tripp host), 1891 (Borden's host) and 1892 (Pool/Tripp host). Judged by the length of both the 1891 & '92 episodes, the visits were almost a week in length.
Augusta and Cyrus were married in 1881. Augusta testified that she saw far less of Lizzie after her marriage. Since it would seem reasonable that the two met annually all thru the 1880's, that would imply they got together multiple times a year prior to 1881.
I also suspect that, for the 1892 visit, Lizzie stayed at Nancy & Carrie’s home in New Bedford because Augusta had a household of young children. In 1892, Cyrus and Augusta Tripp had two sons, 10 and 8 year old, and a 4 year old daughter. I've seen a recent photo of the Tripp home on a different Lizzie website, and while it is not a tiny cottage, neither is it large enough to absorb the energy of three youngsters and still provide a restful environment for Lizzie's 'vacation'.
Extending beyond Augusta, Lizzie clearly had an established relationship w/ Carrie and Nancy. Nancy mentioned to Jennings that Lizzie visited them two years ago and that Lizzie had written Mrs. Pool a letter in the days just before to the murders, telling her that Lizzie was going to Marion. Lizzie had talked to Carrie during prior visits about the Borden family strife, specifically her concerns about being left out of any inheritance. It sure seems that Lizzie was visiting people she was familiar with and trusted.
So blending all those insights together, I am now of the opinion that when Augusta stopped by the Borden house for an hour in the Spring of 1892, the ladies finalized plans for Lizzie to visit the Tripp/Pool's in the latter half of the summer. Quite possibly Lizzie's birthday (July 19) was a stimulant for the timing of the trip.
Lizzie didn't change her Marion plans to go to New Bedford, she just didn't change her New Bedford plans when she was invited to go to Marion July 22nd. She was planning to go to Marion after she visited New Bedford. It has finally dawned on me that these two trips were not mutually exclusive.
Of course, this new perspective (for me) does not preclude Lizzie from having a nefarious reason for not going to Marion sooner than August 8. It is still quite the coincidence that she visits Marion on July 31st, gets home in time for the elder Borden's to get violently ill and subsequently violently die....all over the course of 5 days....all of which fell in between Lizzie's actual and planned visit to Marion.
Nor does it mean she didn't partake in activities in New Bedford that were related to the demise of her parents. Doesn't mean she did either.
Random tidbit: Carrie Pool died from a form of tuberculosis on June 18, 1893, two days before Lizzie was acquitted on June 20.
Open questions:
1) Augusta testified that she and Lizzie were classmates around 1875. However, the 1870 and 1880 U.S. census has the Pool trio of ladies living with Nancy's father, George H. Gifford, in Westport, Ma. There appears to not have been a Massachusetts 1875 Census. There are no listings for Nancy Pool or Poole in the Fall River City directories for any years in the 1870's.
That said, presumably Nancy moved herself, Carrie and Augusta to Fall River for a handful of years in the mid-'70's. Not sure where they lived and why this temporary break away from Westport. I can find no record that Nancy got remarried in that timeframe or any sign of a divorce afterwards.
2) What happened to Lizzie and Augusta's seemingly long term and tight relationship? Perhaps their friendship continued until their deaths, but it might be telling that Lizzie left two classmates some $ in her Will, but Augusta D. Tripp was not mentioned.
Sources:
Inquest transcripts of Lizzie Borden, Augusta Tripp & Emma Borden
Jennings Journals: Nancy H. Pool interview w/ Andrew Jennings Pg 251
U.S. Census 1870; 1880 & 1900. Massachusetts State Census 1865.
1881 Westport, Ma. Marriage Register
Lizzie Borden's Last Will & Testament.
Augusta D. Tripp Inquest Testimony. Pages 141-145.
1. She had been a schoolmate w/ Lizzie around 1875.
2. Augusta saw very little of the Borden’s after her marriage.
3. Augusta visited the Borden sisters Monday July 13 to Saturday July 18th. Abby was not at the house at any time; Borden’s told her Abby was staying at the Swansea farm.
4. Augusta ‘stopped by’ the Borden house for about an hour in the Spring of ’92.
5. A couple years prior, Carrie, Augusta’s younger sister told Augusta that Lizzie had mentioned that Lizzie and Emma might not inherit anything from their father.
Other facts:
1. Augusta D. Pool (22 yrs) married Cyrus Tripp (28 yrs), painter, on January 13, 1881.
2. 1865, 1870 and 1880 U.S. and Massachusetts census had Nancy, Augusta and Carrie living with Nancy’s father, George Gifford (Justice of the Peace) in Westport, Ma.
3. Nancy Pool told Andrew Jennings that Lizzie had last visited the Pool’s ‘two years ago’. (likely before the Europe trip)
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camgarsky4
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Interesting that Carrie Pool was born Oct 23, 1860 and Augusta Pool June 23, 1858. Lizzie was born July 19, 1860.
Source of birthdates are the Westport and Fall River birth registers.
It was Carrie and Lizzie that were the same age. Augusta was two years older. I'm not aware of any information that would be contrary to the idea that Carrie might have been the sister who was closer to Lizzie, but since Carrie was so ill at the time of the murders, Augusta was the "Pool" pulled into the investigation.
Afterall, if was Carrie who Lizzie shared the family insight that she was worried about her inheritance....not Augusta. That might also explain why Lizzie stayed with Nancy and Carrie in New Bedford and not Augusta in Westport. Perhaps Carrie was her primary purpose of the visit.
New idea to ponder.
Source of birthdates are the Westport and Fall River birth registers.
It was Carrie and Lizzie that were the same age. Augusta was two years older. I'm not aware of any information that would be contrary to the idea that Carrie might have been the sister who was closer to Lizzie, but since Carrie was so ill at the time of the murders, Augusta was the "Pool" pulled into the investigation.
Afterall, if was Carrie who Lizzie shared the family insight that she was worried about her inheritance....not Augusta. That might also explain why Lizzie stayed with Nancy and Carrie in New Bedford and not Augusta in Westport. Perhaps Carrie was her primary purpose of the visit.
New idea to ponder.
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CagneyBT
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
April 27, 1909. The Evening Standard, New Bedford: “Westport: Miss Lizzie Borden of Fall River was the guest of Mrs. Cyrus Tripp yesterday.”
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camgarsky4
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Cagney!! Thrilled to see you post. I was reading some of your stuff just a couple days ago and wondering where you went off to!
I don't have access to the New Bedford newspaper archives....any chance you could paste the article you reference above?
What website do you use to access the New Bedford archives? I've tried a couple times and come up empty so far.
I don't have access to the New Bedford newspaper archives....any chance you could paste the article you reference above?
What website do you use to access the New Bedford archives? I've tried a couple times and come up empty so far.
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CagneyBT
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Hi Camgarsky!
Thank you for the nice welcome! Always happy to see your posts as well
I no longer have access to those newspaper archives, unfortunately. And I don't know how to paste an image or attachment here; all my articles are saved to my PC. However, Lizzie's visit to Augusta Tripp was also printed on page 6, under the section "Westport" in The Evening Herald (Fall River) on April 27, 1909.
Hope this helps!
Thank you for the nice welcome! Always happy to see your posts as well
I no longer have access to those newspaper archives, unfortunately. And I don't know how to paste an image or attachment here; all my articles are saved to my PC. However, Lizzie's visit to Augusta Tripp was also printed on page 6, under the section "Westport" in The Evening Herald (Fall River) on April 27, 1909.
Hope this helps!
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camgarsky4
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Found it and read it. Thanks for the directions!
That sure seems to be a friendship that survived the trial and the ensuing years.
Per the 1910 U.S. Census, Nancy H. Pool (of 20 Madison fame) was living with the Cyrus, Augusta, and a daughter, Helen in Westport.
Interesting that Lizzie left monies to some childhood friends, but not Augusta. Could mean something, could mean nothing.
That sure seems to be a friendship that survived the trial and the ensuing years.
Per the 1910 U.S. Census, Nancy H. Pool (of 20 Madison fame) was living with the Cyrus, Augusta, and a daughter, Helen in Westport.
Interesting that Lizzie left monies to some childhood friends, but not Augusta. Could mean something, could mean nothing.
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Kat
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Here is the Tripp house in Westport. Len took us there.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Kat on Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kat
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Other view
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Kat
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Hey you guys here’s the link to instructions on how to attach pictures- I can’t wait!
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/LBForum/ ... f=9&t=6577
https://lizzieandrewborden.com/LBForum/ ... f=9&t=6577
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camgarsky4
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Thanks for the pics Kat! Is Westport a real village or mostly a collection of homes w/ a random gas station/post office?
Now that I know how to add illustrations, I'm going to town! Below is a photograph of George H. Gifford who was Nancy Pool's father and Augusta and Carrie's grandfather. Before Nancy and Carrie migrated to New Bedford for a few years, they lived with him in Westport for decades after Nancy's husband was killed in the civil war.
Source for the photograph was the website "Find-A-Grave".
Now that I know how to add illustrations, I'm going to town! Below is a photograph of George H. Gifford who was Nancy Pool's father and Augusta and Carrie's grandfather. Before Nancy and Carrie migrated to New Bedford for a few years, they lived with him in Westport for decades after Nancy's husband was killed in the civil war.
Source for the photograph was the website "Find-A-Grave".
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Kat
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Well, what-do-ya-know! That’s a great surprise! Thanks!
I knew you could do it!
Cool
I knew you could do it!
Cool
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CagneyBT
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Re: Summer Plans gone awry
Kat, thank you so much for the directions on how to attach images. Much appreciated!!!I will be posting in the "Viable Suspects" thread but my post is long and very image heavy...lots of articles...so I just stuck to text. However, I did cite them and transcibed the most relevant texts.