Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Here is the un-enhanced Abbie portrait from Porter I just took, using my IPad. The Forum attachments has a limit as to size. My camera took a 3mg photo, but I had to reduce it to 1.3mg to be acceptable as an attachment here.
Does anyone know where else the ‘Standing Abbie” picture might have been published?
I looked in Parallel Lives, Radin, and Kent, so far and did not find.
Sorry about sideways, it will be properly shown if one clicks on the picture.

camgarsky4 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:09 am Thanks for posting the pics. Wonder why Alice was buried in Westport?

Rebello says Alice Russell’s father was born in Nantucket, MA, and her mother in Little Compton, R.I., and Alice born in New Bedford, but the graveyard at Westport has stones for her and her parents. I did not include a pic of her parents, as they are illegible. Don’t know why- maybe a genealogist could fill us in?
In fact, a search of the Forum might garner more info.

Hi Reasonwhy:

I believe the photos were enhanced using AI technology through the My Heritage website. Sometimes enhancement brings out more clarity and detail that the eye doesn't ordinarily see, especially with faded or damaged old photographs. I've seen some pretty impressive results on old family photos of mine. On the negative side, the photo can emerge as way too artificial or so extreme as to make the subject unrecognizable.

So it's hard to tell if Abby's eye was naturally defective in the original photo or caused by the enhancement.

hi Kat:

Thank you for the feedback...I'm amazed at all the Borden photos you, Stef & Harry have brought to light over the years. Special thanks for confirming the source for the young John Morse. I couldn't for the life of me remember where I'd seen it. The same with young Abby's photo. I could have sworn that my unenhanced original came from a copy of Porter's book that was located online. The faces in both our photos are slightly off comparatively. I wonder if one was a better reproduction from a more pristine edition of the Fall River Tragedy? Anyway, I'm stumped!

The photos of Dennis Sullivan, C.V.S. Remington & John Crowe were printed with their obituaries. The "Lizzie" photo was a random find and is just flat-out weird, but I still find it intriguing. I wish I knew the source of it.

That site had good authentic pictures until the very end and then that questionable (“Lizzie”) one appeared. It’s too bad.
Well, the grainy “standing Abbie” from Porter is real.

I think there are at least 3 Morse men in the group photo, and maybe an Uncle who is a Morse. Since it implies racial equality in that era, I have felt it was a Lodge photo of some kind. No one else ever gives their opinion on my theory.

Kat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:06 pm

camgarsky4 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:09 am Thanks for posting the pics. Wonder why Alice was buried in Westport?

Rebello says Alice Russell’s father was born in Nantucket, MA, and her mother in Little Compton, R.I., and Alice born in New Bedford, but the graveyard at Westport has stones for her and her parents. I did not include a pic of her parents, as they are illegible. Don’t know why- maybe a genealogist could fill us in?
In fact, a search of the Forum might garner more info.

I searched the “Heritage” topic area and sure enough Cynthia had a tree, or two or three, for Alice Russell, but did not give locations.

The 1851 New Bedford Marriage Register information confirms Rebello's birthplaces for Alice's parents. Father was 31 and mother 18 at time of marriage.

Little Compton, RI was within miles of Westport, Ma.
Alice's father was listed as a mariner in both the marriage register and Alice's birth entry in the New Bedford birth register. However, in the 1855 Massachusetts Census, he lists his occupation as "Gentleman". Seems a fair assumption that Alice was raised in a very comfortable home environment.

Thanks! As a mariner, “Gentleman” also can describe a smuggler- tho I doubt he’d list that on the census!
I’m thinking there had to be family in Westport. Folks who live around there probably know, like Cynthia. We should have looked deeper into the question while there, but those older stones almost had barnacles growing on them!

Here is Alice Russell’s parents. It’s all not too far from the water.
Good luck deciphering the stone.

This gentleman is identified by family writing at the top of the picture as “Wm Morse.”
It may very well be, because William Bradford Morse (JVM’s brother) married into the Mason family in Swansea, where the collection was found.
I don’t know if he is in the group picture. If we don’t assume the identified John Vinnicum Morse is “young” in the group photo, (maybe later “enhanced” to look younger- don’t know why anyone would do that) then I have a good guess which one Wm would be.
We would go back a page to compare. I think this is a “young” William, and he’d be older in the group picture.

John V. Morse was visiting Fall River in September 1866, and he made his presence known in a quite unusual way:

Fall River Daily Evening News, 27 Sep 1866, Thu · Page 2 “Prairie Eel” - Mr. John Morse, of Illinois, formerly of this city, and now on a visit here, brought into our office, this afternoon, a Rattlesnake, which was caught by his brother Fernando on one of the prairies of Illinois, on the 1st of June of last. Mr. Morse caught the reptile by placing his foot upon him and pinning him securely to the ground, while he passed a slip-noose over his head and around his neck. His snakeship has eight rattles, and as these reptiles are three years old before having their first rattle, our Illinois visitor is consequently about eleven years old. He measures about two feet and a half in length. Mr. Morse has kept him until recently in a box. He now has him coiled up in a large glass bottle.
Mr. Morse has killed a large number of these reptiles “out West,” sometimes as many as twenty in a day. Persons who are bitten by them are cured by a free use of whiskey, or other alcoholic liquor. Mr. M. has seen an ox bitten by one die in a few days afterwards. Except when in the act of springing, they are rather sluggish in their movements, and a smart walker can distance them. Mr. Morse will please excuse us, however, from a trial of speed with his pet. If we “walk” at all it must be in an opposite direction. Then look out for the tallest kind of locomotion.

Did John’s younger brother, Fernando Morse, accompany him on his visit in 1866? (with the snake in tow).

Could the group photograph have been taken during that visit?

I tried dating the photograph based on the clothing. My estimate would be the 1860’s. I referenced the Family Search genealogy blog here, which also includes a photo of a light suit of that period that looks similar to the one worn by the unidentified young gentleman:
https://www.familysearch.org/en/blog/1860s-fashion

Men’s fashion in the 1860s revolved around the 3-piece suit. One major difference that set these suits apart in the 1860s was the relaxed cut. Rather than wearing fitted suits, men often wore suits that were slack and loose.
The lounge coat in particular became a mainstream fashion choice for men. Coats were previously fitted and seamed at the waist, but the lounge coat had a straight, loose cut. Trousers also became wider...Men’s hair was typically short and neatly combed. Facial hair was common, from short beards to mustaches to the iconic mutton chops.


The young man resembles William B. Morse. William was the older brother of John & Fernando. In 1866, William was 37, John was 33, and their younger brother, Fernando, was 25.

I’m no photography expert, but to my untrained eye, the two men look to be the correct ages, assuming it was taken in 1866. This is also assuming that these are indeed the Morse brothers, John & Fernando.

Fernando served in the Civil War and married Margaret Graves in 1867. They settled in  South Otter, Macoupin, Illinois, where Fernando died in 1884.

Fall River Daily Evening News, April 14, 1884:
I couldn’t find any evidence that John V. Morse or his brothers were Masons, but if so, the photo may have been taken at the Mount Hope Masonic Lodge, where Hiram C. Harrington was also a member. It’s possible they were members of Geoffrey de Boullion Commandery of the Knights Templar, Palestine Temple of Shriners, or the Knights of Pythias, all popular organizations among the men of Swansea and Fall River.

Thank you for an insider view of ole JVM! He was always up to something and he got around, that’s for sure

These are the ones who I think look enough like each other to be direct family Morse.
But without another clean shaven chin, I can’t tell about the “movie star looking” younger man to compare.
He could be Fernando, I suppose. He looks a little diluted, like a 1/2 brother, but Alvarado, the 1/2 brother was too young, born 1850, if this picture is c. 1866.
And it’s a good call that the men in light coats look western; they certainly do.
Anthony went west, as did Wm. Bradford, and JVM and Fernando.

Here are the dates from the Anthony Morse tree- and it’s not impossible, if this is an 1866 photo, that the older man in the center of the picture is Anthony Morse (born 1800).

These are the dates of the immediate Morse men, if anyone wants to compare to the group picture.
-Anthony b.1800, d.1878
-brother Gardner b.1794, d.1877
-brother Charles b.1809 still alive in 1892
-Charles’ twin George b.1809, d. 1877
Next generation
-Gardner’s son Joseph b.1823 (don’t have verified death date)
- Anthony’s sons:
William Bradford b.1829, d.1921
John Vinnicum b.1833, d.1912
Fernando b.1840, d.1884
Alvarado 1/2 b.1850, d.1899

I found out today the photo was undated.
But we need to figure out how the potential date of 1866 clashes or is compatible with the Civil War. I would think there would still be unrest and upheaval. Unsure of ease of travel.
Assuming the men pointed out are Morse, and so many of them lived in the west, maybe the photo is from the west also, and not taken in Fall River or Swansea, but rather sent to relatives there?

Comparing undated possible JVM- top picture left With (reversed) known accepted portrait.
Might you be visiting Swansea in the near future, Cagney?

Hi Kat!

Kat, I would love nothing better than to visit Swansea and do some research. Maybe someday, I hope!

You thought Anthony Morse may be in the center of the photo. There may be evidence for that theory if we adjust the timeframe.

We know John visited in 1866; this is confirmed by both the news article about the snake and his inquest testimony. He also stated at the inquest that he visited a year before and after the Centennial, which would be 1876-1878:

Q: Had you been East during the 38 years? (since moving West)
A: O, yes, I came the first time just after the War, I guess the same year the War ended. Then I was here the year before the Centennial and the year afterwards; and I were here, I think seven years ago previous to this. I think those are all the times.

Anthony Morse visited Fall River from Aug. 1877-Oct 1,1877, accompanied by John.

THe Fall River Daily Evening News, Aug. 29, 1877:

While visiting the city, Anthony & his surviving brothers, Gardner, George, and Charles, reunited after 30 years.

The Fall River Daily Evening News, Aug. 29, 1877:



Gardner Morse, age 82, died two weeks later on Sept. 12, 1877 "at the residence of his son Joseph on (45) Maple Street...Mr. Morse was one of the five brothers whose meeting in this city, a few days ago, was noted in the News." Fall River Daily Evening News, Sept. 14, 1877.

Anthony left for home with John and a "Mrs. Slade" on October 1:



If Anthony Morse is indeed in the group photo, it most likely would have been taken during this visit. Maybe the photo is a memento of the brothers reunion?

In 1877, John V. Morse was 44 years old. Assuming the unidentified young man is a brother, Fernando would have been 36 years old, and his half-brother, Alvarado K. Morse, was 27.

Alvarado died in 1899 in Colorado at age 49. I found a picture purported to be him on familysearch.org. https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedig ... e/2182-DQ1


I'm working on another scenario regarding the photo and will post soon.

Kat, the various photos of John are certainly similar. The resemblance is quite strong. He looks very Lincoln-esque in the unverified image. I need to study more.

Thanks for all that! I used to do what you do, but I did it with our Joe He had all the passwords! But it was 19 years ago. Is there more access to newspapers now then there was then? Good stuff! Boy did we work on the Morse men… we traced one branch and I was actually able to call and speak to a “double Morse” in 2003. Morningstar Productions wanted to know about surviving close Bordens but we had to say the closest to get to Lizzie was through Morse. Sometimes when someone is obsessed with the name Borden, they don’t care about a Morse.

Yr theory about date of picture is interesting, but do you see anyone looking 82 and about to die in a couple of weeks? And unfortunately the central seated gentleman doesn’t seem 77 (the potential Anthony). But the youngest man standing does look to be the age of 27, the potential Alvarado’s age.
And do we see twins?
BTW the link didn’t work - it wants a password

Partial, but most, of Morse family tree so you can use dates while you work

I find that identifying old photos is an endlessly fascinating process, and have been searching my computer still!
My sister gave me a likely search term today (she helped set up my laptop) and I hit the Swansea jackpot. I’ve been working quietly in the background- haven’t forgotten this topic!
I also found my disc from Joe- called “Morse/Gardner/Borden”- I’ve been looking at the genealogy of Morse he took to the “11”- but he didn’t finish, which means he got some of the next gen Morse children ( who married into Shaw, for instance) and Selecta family ties, but not Wm Bradford, who I really want. I have to prove or disprove a child that may be his named “William”who Len mentioned in his “Meet the Emerys” Hatchet article- and he shows him as eldest- when Joe’s and my Morse tree shows Anna the eldest.
So far, I figure he used JVM’s probate record, but made no tree. I think I have a case of typo he may have made, but I would have to go back to Weld or Rep. Men and search Morse again, after Caroline.
I just got this obit for JVM. Sorry, no attribution.

Sorry for posting something random like this, but it strangely made me smile when I saw it and figured posting it belonged on a thread titled "miscellaneous goodies!".

Cool find, Camgarsky! A large majority of the Fall River population were Republican. I"m sure Lincoln snared their votes. (I almost read "Hannibal Hamlin" as "Hannibal LECTER" )

Here's the "Find-A-Grave" genealogy on William Bradford Morse:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/360 ... ford-morse

His oldest child was Andrew LaFrone Morse, who died in Fairhaven, Washington in 1903. His sister Annie,was employed as a teacher in Everet, Washington at the time. She accompanied the body back to Excelsior for burial.

The Evening Herald, Fairhaven, Washington:
ANDREW L. MORSE DEAD
Well Known Man Passed Away yesteday
Andrew L. MORSE a well known citizen of Fairhaven, died yesterday at 4 o'clock at his home, Twenty-second and Donovan. Mr. MORSE's death was rather sudden and came as a surprise and shock to his friends although for some time he has been unwell. Deceased leaves a wife and four children and a brother, George, in this city and a sister in Everett. He was 47 years of age and was a member of the plumber union. The funeral will be held tomorrow afternoon at the Catholic church of which deceased was a member. Interment will be made in Bay View cemetery under the direction of W.B. Mock & Son.

Monday, June 22, 1903:
Funeral of A. L. MORSE
The funeral of A. L. MORSE was held at 3 o'clock yesterday afternoon at the Catholic church, Rev. Father BOULET conducting the services. The funeral was largely attend by friends of the deceased, the Foresters of America and Knights of the Maccabees of which orders he was a member, attending in a body. The remains were shipped this morning by W. H. MOCK & Son to Excelsior, Minn., the home of the dead man's parents. Miss E. A. MORSE, Everett, sister of deceased, accompanied the remains east. (Note: It looks like her initials were transposed. Anna E. Morse appears in the city directory of Everett, teacher, 1903)

Andrew married Catherine McDermott on Aug. 16, 1892...only 12 days after the Borden murders.
His wife was of Irish descent. In all likelihood, she was Catholic, which explains why Andrew's funeral was held at a Catholic church. I couldn't locate a cause of death.

Just a quick tip for researchers: Find-A-Grave is a great genealogical resource. There's also information on the Find-A-Grave link on William M. Morse (the nephew at Daniel Emery's on Aug. 4). Also, familysearch.org is pretty indispensable, and it's completely free, requiring only a registration. That's where I located Andrew's marriage record.

Kat wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:02 am
I also found my disc from Joe- called “Morse/Gardner/Borden”- I’ve been looking at the genealogy of Morse he took to the “11”- but he didn’t finish, which means he got some of the next gen Morse children ( who married into Shaw, for instance) and Selecta family ties, but not Wm Bradford, who I really want. I have to prove or disprove a child that may be his named “William”who Len mentioned in his “Meet the Emerys” Hatchet article- and he shows him as eldest- when Joe’s and my Morse tree shows Anna the eldest.
So far, I figure he used JVM’s probate record…

—Partial KK
Yes, sorry about that. I found the JVM probate record on Joe’s disc, and the piece of the 1880 Excelsior, Minn. census in my files that includes William the son, and amended my tree which I will post here.
It’s good to be able to fix things “live” so to speak. I was motivated by Cagney

JVM probate.
William and Andrew are two of the last three on the list.

Andrew LaFrone Morse's Fall River obituary:

Wedding of George K. Morse (son of William Bradford Morse & Anne Mason) and nephew of John V. Morse. His sister, Anna E. Morse, was maid of honor.




Anna E. Morse was the niece visiting the Emerys on August 4. Was it her brother William or George who accompanied her or was that ever determined?

William Bradford Morse, John V.'s brother, in 1920 article:

CagneyBT wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:05 pm
Anna E. Morse was the niece visiting the Emerys on August 4. Was it her brother William or George who accompanied her or was that ever determined?

—partial Cagney

Yes, it was William, 16 years old, and thank you for the wedding announcement!
May I ask if this took place in Excelsior?

After William Bradford Morse’s western life, I suppose he might be expected to look like that as a 91 year old blacksmith?

I’m so glad you are doing all the work, Cagney! Just what I always wanted…and I get to look at it!
Q. Is there a second John Vinnicum Morse?
and
Q. It has William Mason Morse marrying age 57? With a 19 year age difference between partners?
Does anyone have a comment?

I’m working on one of those handwritten trees, but am taking a break now for gobblegobble

Hi Kat!

Yes, George's wedding took place in Excelsior.

Old William B. Morse looks like Grizzly Adams. But he was still going strong at 91

Kat, there was indeed a second John Vinnicum Morse. He was William B's son, born in 1868 and apparently Uncle John's namesake

William married twice which explains the discrepancy. He married first c. 1903, divorced in 1927 and remarried in 1930.

The dates are off the top of my head as I'm on the road without access to my notes.

Have a great Thanksgiving!!

Oh thanks for putting me out of my misery, trying to figure that out. It’s hard to watch football and concentrate on these Morse’s!

William B. Morse obituary:

I've seen references to this interview with John V. Morse, but never saw it in full. It's very consistent with his later inquest testimony, which gives it authenticity.

Kat wrote a great Hatchet article, "Jay Gould's Yacht"...making reference to the banter between Andrew & John at breakfast on the morning of Aug. 4.

Just thought I'd repost the article in case others haven't seen it:

Thanks for that item, Cagney! It sounds like he remembered a lot! Aug 5th is too soon for this to have been gathered from his Inquest testimony- I wonder how much might be in Witness Statements? We can check.

But alas, no conductor badge #.....

That is one of my favorite case articles because of the extra layer of details that I view as legit. I think John was a very intelligent and literal, albeit eccentric, individual. He knew the reporter wanted details and John gave them!

The article mentions that the Borden farm he called on [i]"is there located"[/i} in context to Luther's. This would reinforce the suggestion that the Borden farm that Emma listed to be sold in September '92 was the farm that Morse visited for the eggs.

I do have a little theory related to John's comment....."Bridget then told me that Mr. and Mrs. Borden had been murdered." I posted it couple years ago, but good time to resurface it and see what you all think. Stay tuned....

Ok, looking forward to it-
but changing the subject, but not really because this thread has no subject
#92 Second Street locks and Harry’s hand showing keyhole (2007)

I like this view from outside going in from the front steps #92 Second Street
That could be Lizzie standing there asking if there was “any mail for me?”
And see the stairs wind away where you wouldn’t be able to see anyone- or even see anyone behind the door?

Might as well add moi, “welcome home” as they say…
Harry’s only orb from his camera, directly at my waist…

Harry and his books at the FRHS. Fall River stats by Hilliard
3 people arrested for stubbornness. Sorry there’s no date, but it is during the tenure of Hilliard. It might be a yearly report.
Plz clic on pic

Fall River stats

Well, more from the files. Now, this may be MBs because he collects postcards, but it was in a file for e-bay look-see’s…

You can jump in with the Morse stuff you mentioned, anytime, camgarsky, if you feel like it. These were screen grabs from the video documentary- I think it was Hash & Rehash right after the Conference at Bristol Community College.

Still working on my thoughts regarding all things odd about Morse's arrival back at the Borden house after his call to the Emery's.

So to keep conversation going, I've got a miscellaneous question....did the city clock ring on the hour, 24/7? In other words, did it ring throughout the night? I've searched newspaper articles and can't find the answer. I suppose the clock ring could be how Lizzie and Bridget know what time they got 'home' August 3rd, but they could have also checked out a clock inside the house.

Hoping someone who is a better researcher or knows more about Fall River can enlighten me!

There’s another question for the Historical Society. We may have to wait…

Kat wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:25 am Harry and his books at the FRHS. Fall River stats by Hilliard
3 people arrested for stubbornness. Sorry there’s no date, but it is during the tenure of Hilliard. It might be a yearly report.
Plz clic on pic

Wish we could know who committed the “Violation of Poison Law” and how!

And when! I didn’t notice that!
Hilliard's tenure:

Flynn, Robert A. Lizzie Borden & the Mysterious Axe.ME: King Philip Publications, 1992.
“A small book discussing types of hatchets; letters by Drs. Dolan and Draper; newspaper stories reporting the finding of two hatchets.”
From Bibliography on LABVM&L
A page

There was a fire at the Bowen house, I think 1961? I had the news item and can’t find it now.
I thought it was “convenient” because that plot of land was soon to become a parking lot and bus station. Do our fab newspaper specialists have access to that news snippet?

Here is the goodbye to that illustrious mansion.

Edit here: the fire was at the Mrs Churchill house 1961- heavy damage. Next door to Borden house. Pg 4 on this topic has news snippet provided. Sorry ‘bout that!

I can't figure out how to access more 'modern' editions of the Fall River papers. Guessing Cagney might have this at her fingertips!