Hiram Harrington's "Interview"

[camgarsky4]

Below is the infamous newspaper and police interview that Hiram Harrington, Andrews brother-in-law, provided in the days immediately after the murders. There are many threads on this forum discussing this interview. Most folks think Hiram was mean spirited and didn't really even have the discussion with Lizzie. I certainly agree that he clearly did not care for Andrew or Lizzie and was quite over the top with his disrespect for his wife's newly dead brother. He also threw Lizzie, his niece via marriage, completely under the bus regarding who murdered the Borden's.

That said, I do think he and Lizzie had the conversation that Hiram claimed. The main reason for this belief is that this is the very first time we learn that Lizzie went to the barn to get fishing sinkers. No policeman or friend mentions Lizzie providing these details on the day of or after the murders.

I've put in blue some of my 'off the cuff' thoughts on each paragraph.


Fall River Daily Herald — Aug. 6, 1892

CLOSE IN MONEY MATTERS

Hiram Harrington, 40 Fourth street, is married to Lurana, Mr. Borden's only sister. A reporter who interviewed him gathered the following story: 'My wife, being an only sister, was very fond of Mr. Borden and always subservient to his will, and by her intimacy with his affairs I have become acquainted with a good deal of the family history during years past. Mr. Borden was an exceedingly hard man concerning money matters, determined and stubborn, and when once he got an idea nothing could change him. He was too hard for me. Hiram's opinions shared are agnostic to any conversation he might have had with Lizzie after the murders. In context of AJB's very recent death, comments come across spiteful and cold.

'When his father died some years ago he offered my wife the old homestead on Ferry street for a certain sum of money. My wife preferred to take the money, and after the agreements were all signed, to show how close he was, he wanted my wife to pay an additional $3 for water tax upon the homestead.' If Hiram's comments were truly in this sequence, it continues to come across as spiteful and cold.

"What do you think was the motive for the crime?" asked the reporter. The reporters question implies Hiram's comments were indeed, in the order the article lists them.

'Money, unquestionably money,' replied Mr. Harrington. 'If Mr. Borden died, he would have left something over $500,000, and all I will say is that, in my opinion, that furnishes the only motive, and a sufficient one, for the double murder. I have heard so much now that I would not be surprised at the arrest any time of the person to whom in my opinion suspicion strongly points, although right down in my heart I could not say I believed the party guilty. Continued bluntness and lack of empathy for the dead or living. Indicates that Lizzie is suspected by many, and then back pedals and states that he doesn't necessarily think she is guilty.

'Last evening I had a long interview with Lizzie Borden, who has refused to see anyone else. I questioned her very carefully as to her story of the crime. She was very composed, showed no signs of any emotion or were there any traces of grief upon her countenance. That did not surprise me, as she is not naturally emotional. I asked her what she knew of her father's death, and, after telling of the unimportant events of the early morning, she said her father came home about 10:30. She was in the kitchen at the time, she said, but went into the sitting room when her father arrived. She was very solicitous concerning him, and assisted him to remove his coat and put on his dressing-gown; asked concernedly how he felt, as he had been weak from a cholera morbus attack the day before. She told me she helped him to get a comfortable reclining position on the lounge, and asked him if he did not wish the blinds closed to keep out the sun, so he could have a nice nap. She pressed him to allow her to place an afghan over him, but he said he did not need it. Then she asked him tenderly several times if he was perfectly comfortable, if there was anything she could do for him, and upon receiving assurance to the negative she withdrew. All these things showed a solicitude and a thoughtfulness that I never had heard was a part of her nature or custom before. She described these little acts of courtesy minutely. Description of Lizzie's demeanor is consistent with other recorded descriptions. Hiram mentions Lizzie offering to close the blinds, something that Lizzie herself mentions in the upcoming Inquest. I don't believe Lizzie had mentioned this to the police previously. Supports Hiram's claim of talking to Lizzie. The details and context ring true to me. If a fabricated interview, would Hiram have said "....and, after telling of the unimportant events of the early morning, ....".

'I then questioned her very carefully as to the time she left the house, and she told me positively that it was about 10:45. She said she saw her father on the lounge as she passed out. On leaving the house she says she went directly to the barn to obtain some lead. She informed me that it was her intention to go to Marion on a vacation, and she wanted the lead in the barn loft to make some sinkers. She was a very enthusiastic angler. I went over the ground several times, and she repeated the same story. She told me it was hard to place the exact time she was in the barn, as she was cutting the lead into sizeable sinkers, but thought she was absent some 20 minutes. Then she thought again, and said it might have been 30 minutes. Then she entered the house and went to the sitting room, as she says, she was anxious concerning her father's health. "I discovered him dead," she said, "and cried for Bridget, who was upstairs in her room." Very crisp retelling of Lizzie's movements. None of the rambling version that lizzie had shared with the police and friends. This is the first time we learn that Lizzie was looking for lead for fishing sinkers in the barn. She tells us again at the Inquest, but to this point, until Hiram shares this interview, there are no reports of this portion of the alibi. To me, this is the single biggest indicator that Hiram did indeed have a private talk with Lizzie soon after the murders.

'Did you go and look for your stepmother?' I asked. 'Who found her?' But she did not reply. I pressed her for some idea of the motive and the author of the act, and after she had thought a moment, she said, calmly: "A year ago last spring our house was broken into while father and mother were at Swansey, and a large amount of money stolen, together with diamonds. You never heard of it because father did not want it mentioned, so as to give the detectives a chance to recover the property. That may have some connection with the murder. Then I have seen strange men around the house. A few months ago I was coming through the back yard, and, as I approached the side door, I saw a man there examining the door and premises. I did not mention it to anyone. The other day I saw the same man hanging about the house, evidently watching us. I became frightened and told my parents about it. I also wrote to my sister at Fairhaven about it." Miss Borden then gave it as her opinion that the strange man had a direct connection with the murder, but she could not see why the house was not robbed, and did not know of anyone who would desire revenge upon her father.' It has been clearly established that AJB wished for the house burglary to be a family secret. Even if Hiram knew of it, I can't imagine he would mention as a possible alternative suspect, when it seems that he already suspected Lizzie. Another indication that Lizzie was sharing her red herrings with Hiram as she did with a number of folks the day of the murder..

Mr. Harrington was asked if he knew whether or not there were dissentions in the Borden family. 'Yes, there were, although it has been always kept very quiet. For nearly ten years there have been constant disputes between the daughters and their father and stepmother. Mr. Borden gave her some bank stock and the girls thought they ought to be treated as evenly as the mother. I guess Mr. Borden did try to do it, for he deeded to the daughters, Emma L. and Lizzie A., the homestead on Ferry street, an estate of 120 rods of land with a house and barn, all valued at $3000. This was in 1887. Information Hiram shared is directionally accurate. This portion of interview had nothing to do with talking to Lizzie. He was family knowledge that clearly Hiram was aware of and felt compelled to share. Again, demonstrating that he didn't have any hesitation with Lizzie or Emma getting in a hot water over the murders. Absolutely not a protective uncle, as morse proved to be.

'The trouble about money matters did not diminish, nor the acerbity of the family ruptures lessen, and Mr. Borden gave each girl ten shares in the Crystal Spring Bleachery company, which he paid $100 a share for. They sold them soon after for less than $40 per share. He also gave them some bank stock at various times, allowing them, of course, the entire income from them. In addition to this he gave them a weekly stipend, amounting to $200 a year. Details might be slightly off, but continues to feel like accurate information.

'In spite of all this the dispute about their not being allowed enough went on with equal bitterness. Lizzie did most of the demonstrative contention, as Emma is very quiet and unassuming, and would feel very deeply any disparaging or angry word from her father. Lizzie, on the contrary, was haughty and domineering with the stubborn will of her father and bound to contest for her rights. There were many animated interviews between father and daughter on this point. Lizzie is of a repellant disposition, and after an unsuccessful passage with her father would become sulky and refuse to speak to him for days at a time. She moved in the best society in Fall River, was a member of the Congregational church, and is a brilliant conversationalist. She thought she ought to entertain as others did, and felt that with her father's wealth she was expected to hold her end up with others of her set. Her father's constant refusal to allow her to entertain lavishly angered her. I have heard many bitter things she has said of her father, and know she was deeply resentful of her father's maintained stand in this matter. This is the paragraph where Hiram clearly pushes Lizzie under the bus. Pearson implied that Lizzie was possibly being retaliatory and showing a little 'pay back' when she named Hiram as the only person who she knew had a hostile relationship with AJB. He might have been correct.

'This house on Ferry street was an old one, and was in constant need of repairs. There were two tenants paying $16.50 and $14 a month, but with taxes and repairs there was very little income from the property. It was a great deal of trouble for the girls to keep the house in repair, and a month or two ago they got disgusted and deeded the house back to their father.' 12 Ferry would have been a topic Hiram was very familiar with. This is the house that he lived in for many years....renting from Abraham and then from AJB. This is also the home transaction that he describes towards the beginning of this interview as demonstrating AJB's scrooge-like behavior.

[Rolie Polie]

Harrington has always stood out to me. I did not trust him when I read through the information that he provided. Did he have anything to do with the murders? Doubt it, but he seems the type who would throw Lizzie under the bus to ensure that his wife, Andrew's sister, would get a portion of Andrew's estate. He would be the one running such an inheritance. If Lizzie would have been found guilty, then she would have lost her right to inherit. Would it go to Emma directly and be gracefully portioned out to Lenore later; or would it be possible to move Emma out of the way next and receive the full inheritance for Lenore as the only legal heir remaining? I can almost hear the wheels of his brain, planning...

[Kat]

I was trying to figure out who would inherit if the whole family died that day. Interesting you should bring this up, but in a different scenario.

(In mine, thinking Abbie dies first, then Andrew, then Emma, then Lizzie, it would go to Morse uncles, I think?- as heirs to Lizzie- different direction than yr supposing, of course.)

[camgarsky4]

Rolie or others -- setting aside that Hiram certainly didn't do Lizzie an favors sharing his view of her personality and how the family as a whole functioned....what do you find clearly misleading and fabricated? As I mentioned, his most enlightening information was that Lizzie went to the barn to find fishing sinkers (that was new information to the public and us).....that ended up being Lizzie's alibi she shared at the inquest.

I ask because, based on other anecdotal information, nothing in his interview strikes me as clearly untrue. In my opinion, we are just reading the thoughts of a man who clearly did not like most or all of the Borden's and was taking this opportunity to 'let it all out'. What we don't know, and it sure would be fun to know, is if Aunt Lurana and Uncle Hiram maintained ANY relationship with the sisters after the funeral. Seems like it would have been highly difficult and strained, but with these families....who knows.

I suspect Hiram's 'borderline hatred' of AJB, and by extension Lizzie, and possibly Emma, was originated from the various iterations of the living arrangements and real estate transactions on Ferry Street in the previous decades.

[Rolie Polie]

Camgarsky4, I didn't say he was misleading, but I did say I don't trust him- as in any alleged motive to 'help' the police or Lizzie. He expressly didn't want to do her any favors, imo. I think he was only involved to throw her under the bus and check to see if the wind would be blowing in his direction to favor him in some way. Further, being married to Andrew's sister gave him a great deal of credibility and air of authority in family matters... more so than what John Morse would ever have.

Like you, Kat, I've wondered about what would have happened if they all died at that time, or were otherwise unable to inherit Andrew's estate. Wouldn't it be a real barn-burner if we ever found out that there really was someone who wanted to murder Andrew and his immediate family, and that Emma herself was only saved because she was away on the planned for day? Who would inherit the estate in that circumstance, with no Will available?

[camgarsky4]

Another insight on the apparent animosity between Hiram and AJB/Lizzie.

Jennings Journals, Page 221.
John Morse interview by Arthur Phillips (extract from lengthy interview, see JJ for full comments)
"Hiram Harrington said to me because L didn't want his wife there, "I was good mind to expose her right there".