Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby InterestedReader » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:34 am

Thanks, Irish Lass.

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby InterestedReader » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:35 am

Thanks, Irish Lass.

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby twinsrwe » Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:37 pm

Thank you, Irish.

I obtained and verified the dates I posted from the forum thread titled, Uncle Laddy, the Find-a-grave web site, the Geni Genealogy web site and WikiTree Genealogy web site.

Most of the information I posted came from the forum thread titled, Uncle Laddy: http://tinyurl.com/kbkfvsh

Find-A-Grave for Lawdwick Borden (I find it interesting that there are only the first and second wife listed under the heading of spouses, but then a note is added further down in the memorial, which list all four of Lawdwick’s wives.): http://tinyurl.com/pg8yvau

Geni Genealogy for Lawdwick Borden (In this web site all of Lawdwick’s children are listed except Maria Borden, his first daughter): http://tinyurl.com/zvwtmdk

WikiTree Genealogy for Ruhama (Crocker) Borden (This is the web site I used to verify Ruhama’s date of birth and date of marriage): http://tinyurl.com/z4vjbe4
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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby InterestedReader » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:48 pm

Twins, I cast no aspersions your way! :shock:

I was asking / checking because of this website

http://lizziebordenwarpsandwefts.com/th ... ck-borden/

which gives a totally random date for the third marriage...
'February 29 1856'

& just wondered if I was missing something.
The website gives no sources.

I've since found the records for both marriages, Elizas Darling and Chace.
Eliza Darling's lack of death certificate is puzzling.

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby twinsrwe » Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:14 pm

It’s OK, Interested, I did not take offence to your post. No was harm done.

I was pretty sure you were talking about the Warps and Wefts web site. However, I notice that I didn’t indicate the sources for the information I posted either!!! Therefore, I thought I would post my sources and indicate that the information was obtained and verified through varies sources.

I attempted to find where Shelley Dziedzic, the administrator of the Warps and Wefts web site, had obtained her information, but came up with nothing. Another discrepancy I noticed: Shelley posted that Lawdwick married Eliza Darling on March 16, 1843, which is different from the marriage date of Jan. 28, 1843, that Kat posted in the thread titled, Uncle Laddy. (It’s unfortunate that the Geni Genealogy web site obtained a lot of their information from Shelley’s Warps and Wefts web site.)

Shelley was a member of this forum at one time. However, she hasn’t posted anything since September 19, 2010. You could try sending her a PM or e-mail her. Here is her profile page: http://tinyurl.com/jejvp5k

Shelley also has an e-mail address for contacting her in the Warps and Wefts, Site Policies: http://tinyurl.com/z7sur9e

You could also leave a comment at the bottom of the web site page which contains the date of 'February 29 1856': http://tinyurl.com/q7sasxj

I would be interesting to see from where Shelley obtained the marriage date of 'February 29 1856' for Eliza T. Chace, as well as the marriage date of March 16, 1843 for Eliza Darling. I know that anything Kat posted has been thoroughly researched and is accurate; she was an expert at proof reading everything and indicating sources for the information she posted.

I agree, it is puzzling that Eliza Darling’s death certificate is not available for the public. However, it is possible that there is a death certificate for her, but we just haven't found it yet.

I have also wondered why there are so many different spellings for Lawdwick’s name: Lodowick, Ladowick, Lawdwick, Ludwig and Ladwig. The same with his son Holder, sometimes spelled Holden. Is it any wonder that anyone attempting to obtain accurate information becomes confused??? :shaking:
Last edited by twinsrwe on Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby InterestedReader » Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:40 pm

Hi again, Twins. I've been piecing together the life of Maria Borden, Lawdwick's one surviving child, and Andrew Borden's cousin. She's very interesting. She certainly didn't vanish!

The 'Murdered Children' legend is mystifying. I rather think those particular two, Holder and Eliza Anne Borden, died at the end of 1849, as per the death records I posted. They died at least a year after their mother - if she died in 1848. I'll continue searching.

As for the marriages, these are the dates on the actual records -

Here is Lawdwick and Eliza Darling:

16th March 1843

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4QP-YHH



And here is Lawdwick and Eliza Chace:

28th February 1849

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4W5-TBP

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby twinsrwe » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:27 pm

InterestedReader wrote:Hi again, Twins. I've been piecing together the life of Maria Borden, Lawdwick's one surviving child, and Andrew Borden's cousin. She's very interesting. She certainly didn't vanish!

The 'Murdered Children' legend is mystifying. I rather think those particular two, Holder and Eliza Anne Borden, died at the end of 1849, as per the death records I posted. They died at least a year after their mother - if she died in 1848. I'll continue searching.

I agree, the murder/suicide legend of Eliza Darling Borden and two of her three children, is indeed mystifying. However, I am NOT at all convinced that the two children who died in 1849, were the son and daughter of Lodowick and Eliza Darling Borden. I was going to post a reply in the thread, titled, Two Borden Murders the Less?, but you deleted the information you had posted there. So, I will post my reply here.

I am convinced that these two children were not the children of Lodowick and Eliza Darling Borden.

Parallel Lives, Page 30 (Underling is mine):

Ironically, the event recalled to many older citizens a tragedy of years before, described in the Fall River Weekly News of May 4, 1848, as a “most melancholy occurrence.” The second wife of Lodowick Borden, the former Eliza Darling, and aunt to Andrew J. Borden, who resided in the house on second Street later occupied by Dr. Kelly, “took her two youngest children [six-month-old Holder and three-year-old Eliza], went down cellar, and drowned them in the cistern; then stepping behind the chimney, cut her own throat with a razor, and died almost instantly.” A contemporary diarist noted that Eliza had been “considered a little out of her head for a few days past.” She was left alone in the house with her children, her maid having “stepped out to draw a pail of water,” and at that time Eliza “committed the lamentable deed in a paroxysm of insanity.” The only one to be spared from being a victim of her mother’s demented act was the couple’s eldest child, Maria. Once the tragedy was discovered, it was said that a “great excitement prevail[ed] in town.”

Parallel Lives, Page 927 (Underling is mine):

It is uncertain when the amity between Lizzie and Grace Hartley first blossomed, but it is possible that a mutual ground of understanding played some part in their relationship, for both had been subjected to the voracious curiosity of the press, having watched as their personal affairs were meted out on the front pages of newspapers throughout the country. For Grace, the gossip associated with her name soon passed; Lizzie endured it for the rest of her life.

Grace’s mother, the former Mary Jane Borden, was the daughter of Cook Borden, a wealthy, self-made lumber dealer with myriad business interests, and his wife, nee Mary Ann Bessey. Mary Jane’s father was the sixth of the nine children born to Richard Borden. The eldest of Cook’s siblings was Abraham B. Borden, and his younger brother, the seventh child, was Lodowick, whose two children were murdered by their mother despondent mother in 1848.

On May 26, 2007, In the tread titled, Uncle Laddy, Harry posted (Underling is mine):

I did find mention of the crime in the Boston Globe of June 18, 1893. The article was discussing murders that occurred in the area near the Borden house on Second Street over the years. In part it reads:

"... Some time back in the forties, about 1845, the little low cottage house next the Borden estate on 2d st. was occupied by Ladwick Borden, an uncle of the late Andrew J. Borden, and here it was about that time that Ladwick Borden's wife Eliza, in a fit of temporary insanity, drowned her two youngest children in a cistern and then cut her own throat. An older child, a girl, married, and today living in Fall River, escaped from the clutches of the irresponsible woman or she, too, would have been a victim of her mother's diseased mind. This was the second of the great crimes, and, while it was horrifying in the extreme, it did not create the sensation which accompanied the murder of Miss Cornell and is

Today Almost Forgotten

by the inhabitants. Indeed, if it had not been brought to mind by the Borden tragedy last August in the next house it would have passed entirely from memory. ..."

Look at the estimated date of birth for Eliza Anne Borden; 1849 is the year after Eliza Darling killed herself, therefore this child cannot possibly be the daughter of Lodowick and Eliza Darling Borden. However, since Lodowick married Eliza Chace on Feb, 28, 1849, then it is a possibility this child may have been the daughter of Lodowick and Eliza Chase, but as far as I know, there is no documentation that they had any children.
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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby KGDevil » Wed May 17, 2017 10:19 pm

John B. Chace, music teacher, is listed as living at number 96 second street in the city directories from 1876 up to as late as 1890. What's interesting are the overlapping years that show John B. Chace living at 96 Second, and Miss Alice Russell and her family living at 96 Second as well. Specifically the years that I've been able to access of 1880, 1885-1890. This makes me scratch my head a bit. Was the house divided into apartments?

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby InterestedReader » Thu May 18, 2017 5:50 am

It was John Chace's wife who owned the house, I think. Maria Borden Chace - Andrew Borden's cousin and Ladowick's daughter.

Maria was Ladowick's biological daughter by second wife Eliza, and as his one surviving child I suppose she was his heir.

Maria's birth:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q29G-WPCX

Her parents' marriage:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q29P-4PTX

John B. Chace always sounds a bit dilettante - he was a music-teacher and then a florist :smile:
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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby KGDevil » Thu May 18, 2017 8:35 am

Thank you, interested. I was aware of the marriage to Lodowicks daughter . I was also aware that Alice Russell stated that she lived in the Kelley house for awhile. What left me scratching my head was the length of time is shows both the Russell's and Maria's family at the same address. Was the house divided into apartments? For example in 1888 it shows John B. Chance , now piano teacher at that address. It also shows Miss Alice Russell, bookkeeper, and her mother Judith, a nurse, boarded at 96 Second. Did the Chace's live there or did John just teach from there? He shows up at no other address, Maria doesn't show there at all.

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby KGDevil » Thu May 18, 2017 8:45 am

The directory listings.
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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby InterestedReader » Thu May 18, 2017 8:52 am

Yes, but didn't Chace have his actual family home elsewhere? I'll look through my findings for you, because I did all this... 96 was a small house. Chace might have just given his lessons there!

Maria herself had been living in the Borden house, in other words next door, a good long while... She married in 1873 (from memory), Ladowick dies in 1874...

This is John and Maria in 1880, where he's now a Florist.
(But for some reason it's not presently showing an image of the record)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MH63-TKK
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Postby InterestedReader » Thu May 18, 2017 9:12 am

The map above, showing her ownership, is about 1880-1882.
Is there a way to see if Maria still owned it 10 years later?

By 1900, certainly, they're at Middle Street - she was there til she died:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M95K-3VS

He's a Music Teacher in 1900. And he was a 'Paper Hanger' when she married him... I'm guessing she brought money into that marriage.

P.S. Can you give me a link for the 1888 City Directory please? I've never yet managed to find it, or the 1892.

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby InterestedReader » Thu May 18, 2017 9:33 am

Yes, it looks as if Alice Russell and her mother, and the Chaces, are all living at 96.
You can see from the Household ID numbers.
Must have been a squash.

Oh. Here's a transcription of the Census:

http://ccbit.cs.umass.edu/lizzie/images ... ondst.html

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby KGDevil » Thu May 18, 2017 11:18 am

It seemed a bit odd because in a city directory a person's work address was often listed as well as their living address. Like with Miss Alice Russell she is listed as bookkeeper at 18 S. Main Street, but boarding at 96 Second. This is why is appeared they were all living at 96 Second to me. Which seemed an odd arrangement.

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Re:

Postby KGDevil » Thu May 18, 2017 11:21 am

InterestedReader wrote:P.S. Can you give me a link for the 1888 City Directory please? I've never yet managed to find it, or the 1892.


I see the city directories listed on ancestry. If there is something specific you would like me to look for I'd be happy to look it up.

I see John B. Chance listed at 96 Second as late as 1890. The same with Miss Alice Russell.

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby KGDevil » Thu May 18, 2017 11:22 am

InterestedReader wrote:Yes, it looks as if Alice Russell and her mother, and the Chaces, are all living at 96.
You can see from the Household ID numbers.
Must have been a squash.

Oh. Here's a transcription of the Census:

http://ccbit.cs.umass.edu/lizzie/images ... ondst.html


Thank you for that transcription. It is very helpful informative. :smile:

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby KGDevil » Thu May 18, 2017 11:25 am

Also somewhere around 1896-97 I believe the houses on second street were renumbered. I see Dr. Kelley now listed as 240 Second street.

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby InterestedReader » Thu May 18, 2017 11:54 am

KGDevil wrote:It seemed a bit odd because in a city directory a person's work address was often listed as well as their living address. Like with Miss Alice Russell she is listed as bookkeeper at 18 S. Main Street, but boarding at 96 Second. This is why is appeared they were all living at 96 Second to me. Which seemed an odd arrangement.



Yes, indeed - but teaching piano could be a genteel effort in your own home. Usually was, I think. Do we ever have his Floristry business address?

My guess is Maria may have made money from properties, while John was not a 'driven' man. His cv is unusual, paper hanger to music teacher to florist.

The strangest aspect is why Maria would want to live in that house.

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Re: Re:

Postby InterestedReader » Thu May 18, 2017 12:29 pm

KGDevil wrote:I see John B. Chance listed at 96 Second as late as 1890. The same with Miss Alice Russell.



But John and Maria couldn't still be there August 1892, surely? I'd assumed the Kelly's took up all of it.

It used to fascinate me there might be Chaces next door.

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Re: Eliza Darling Borden and Maria Borden Hinckley, Mother and Daughter

Postby KGDevil » Thu May 18, 2017 1:00 pm

It shows Dr. Kelley as living at 96 Second in 1891. Dr. Kelley lived there, along with the same maid Mary Doolan, until 1899. In 1900 Dr. Kelley is moved to third Street.

Here are the city directory pages for Fall River in 1890 that show John B. Chace and Alice Russell at 96 Second.
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