Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Youse guys are probably awaiting tons of photos from this trip and I don't blame you!

However, my camera was acting up and misfiring- I did not get 1/3 the amount of photos that, say, Harry did.
My pictures from inside the House are mostly out of focus, too, which is unusual for me.

It has taken us 2 days to recover because of the flight back home from Providence, hence the delay.

I kind of kept notes, because we stuffed so much in!
I have no pics from the Monday we arrived, so suffice it to say my description will have to do.

We arrived around 3 and got to the B&B around 3:30 or 4. Saw all the House staff at the gift shop! Hi Guys!!
Then went out to eat at Highland Pizza, my first place I want to go.
Then MB here, had us back to his house on French and I touched an actual "L. A. B" signature in a book once owned by Lizbeth! I mean my forefinger hovered above it 'feeling' and then I did put my finger lightly upon it.

We saw his sister and invited her to view the interior of the B&B which she had never seen, tho she is local.

That was great! She is so wonderful- and aside from it being the Borden House, she was very excited and impressed at the interior. She commented that outside it looked small and non-descript from all the years she had been past it- but that the inside was beautiful and gracious and homey and much larger and nicer than she thought. She loved that rooms were connected and that further away in one's sightline there would be more rooms and more corners and turns to discover.

She particulary admired the rugs and wallpaper and color-scheme and furnishings. It is so nice to be around someone so full of enthusiasm!

Tuesday we went on an approximation of "Andrew's Walk" with a few sideturns.
Staying at the B&B allows one to set out at the approximate time and see downtown on foot which is really a fantastic thing to be able to do.
Of course his "Walk" took us about 3 hours!

I believe this is Dr. Bowen's church, being as he was a First Baptist, and it survived the fires.

First Baptist Church, Fall River

The weather was Gorgeous!!

Andrew's bank. We went inside and saw where his office used to be. I believe the back, at least, of this building had had fire damage, in the Great Fire.
To the right is the *new* City Hall.
This is the view from the area by the Coggeshall Fountain.
(I think that is how it's spelled)

Andrew's Bank, more

This is a 1930's picture of the Union Savings Bank.
(the smaller building in the distance, on the right, at the corner)
It shows where the Citizens Bank and the Union Bank join.
The Citizen's Union Bank let me take photos of their Centennial calendar.

(If the picture is cut off please click on the pic in the box below the photo and it will open on a larger page)

Isn't is weird how the 1930's and 40's were in black and white?

Here is an interior of the Citizens Savings Bank in the 1940's. This was next to Andrew's Union Savings Bank.

Were they connected, Harry?

Guess what this is

On another topic, someone mentioned the Armory.
Here is a view of it from Annawan Street. (Annawan is where Andrew's building is/was: the "Andrew J. Borden Building").

The Armory is a very impressive building!

View of the bridge from Annawan Street.
The Armory was directly to the right. This is looking straight down Annawan.
(Here is an example of why it took us 3 hours to do *Andrew's Walk.* This is not Andrew's walk)

I will pause here in case Harry has supplemental views of the area.

Near by the library and across the street was where the Mellen House was. Below is an early 1900's postcard showing the hotel. To the left was the Fall River Savings bank. The second photo shows the bank as it looks today. The Mellen House is gone and the land primarily a parking lot. The lower portion of the front of the bank building has been remodeled and replaced but the top is the same.

This is a photo of the YMCA on North Main. Lizzie and Emma each contributed $2,000 towards its construction.

The smaller building to the right (162 North Main) was where Sargent's was located.

Here's a wider view of the two banks.

On Thursday morning, Kat and Harry and I went to the N.B. Borden School on Morgan Street, just a short walk from 92 2nd. This is where little Lizzie went to classes and got her early education. Note the date of the school is 1868 which is when the Bordens were still living over on Ferry Street.

This building has etched on the outside the "Fall River National Bank" and is at 59 North Main. It has the date 1890 at the top. When Lizzie's assets were read at the trial (p1529+) it listed among them: "Two shares of the Fall River National Bank, April 3d, 1883." Probably the bank had relocated.

The Venerable old N.B. Borden School

Here's a rare shot of the western wall of the school. Note the two windows with the Earth globes.

Bottom floor, second from left

Top floor, third from left.

Behind the school was a paved yard for the students to have recess. Although I doubt the asphalt dates to the 1870s when Lizzie was a student, is this is the space where she jumped rope, romped with her friends, and lined up for morning attendence?

Through one of the windows on the Western side of the building you can see student decorations as well as an American flag still hanging inside the classroom.

WOW, you guys! AWESOME PICS!!! Thank you for sharing them with us.

Kat @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:05 pm wrote:Guess what this is

Kat, is this a serpent coiled upon a rock, ready to strike :?::?: That is what it looks like to me, or has my active imagination gone wild?

Richard has skipped to Thursday but that's OK. He's got very nice pictures! Thanks Richard!
I have to keep my own in order or I'll forget something.
Richard stayed at the B&B in Bridget's room starting Wednesday night. We were all in the attic.

Thanks for the extra pics Harry. I particulary like the comparison between old and new!

Yes, it's a dragon-like thing.
You Win!!!
It's on the side of the Coggleshall Fountain. It's strange looking!
This is the place where humans drink from, then lower down is a place for horses and at the bottom a shallow bowl-like hole for dogs! The one for dogs is pretty explicit it's for dogs.
The Coggeshall guy is making humans drink from the dragon mouth!
My picture is too full of shadow- I can't believe you saw that, twins!

Kat, I'll stick to the continuity. If you don't mind, I'll post a few more pictures of the fountain, a wide shot of the entire fountain, a close up of the dedication, and a clearer picture of the side details.

Dedication on side of fountain. Notice it declares that the records from 1882 that are deposited within the fountain will rejoince antiquarians.

Hmmm...

Detail on fountain

Those are nice and still on *Andrew's Walk*- thanks!

That lower hole on the left is for horses.
At the very bottom (missing) is the dog bowl.
Strange looking thing.

Kat @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:03 pm wrote: ...
Yes, it's a dragon-like thing.
You Win!!!
It's on the side of the Coggleshall Fountain. It's strange looking!
This is the place where humans drink from, then lower down is a place for horses and at the bottom a shallow bowl-like hole for dogs! The one for dogs is pretty explicit it's for dogs.
The Coggeshall guy is making humans drink from the dragon mouth!
My picture is too full of shadow- I can't believe you saw that, twins!

Well, I'll be. It really was a wild guess on my part, Kat; the area to the right of the shadowy area in your pic just looks like a serpent to me. You're right, it is very strange looking but quite interesting thing. I wonder if horses ever try to drink from the place for humans?

Richard, thank you for posting your pics of this fountain. In the first and second pic it appears that there is something on the other side of the fountain - are both sides of the same carving or different carvings? The dedication on the side of the fountain is strange; makes one wonder what it means. The third pic is very detailed - it really is an odd looking thing, isn't it?

So, Kat - what did I win???

I just knew you would ask that!
You win the Fountain of course! Its all yours. I'd like to be there when you try to collect it!
Good eye, anyway!

Kat @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:36 pm wrote:I just knew you would ask that! ...

GOTCHA!!! I just couldn't resist...

Kat @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:36 pm wrote: ... You win the Fountain of course! Its all yours. I'd like to be there when you try to collect it! ...

Awww - You mean you are not going to personally deliver it??? Actually, I found the fountain quite intriguing - very unusual. It would be interesting to get the history behind this fountain as well as the meaning behind the dedication craved in the side of the fountain.

Kat @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:36 pm wrote: ... Good eye, anyway!

Thanks, Kat. I did enjoy taking a guess as to what your pic was.

I've been up too long to really make a go at this but I promise I'll try to give it some more research and maybe I'll do a blog post on it.

That said the Cogswell Fountain was donated to the city by Dr. Henry Cogswell in 1883 (dedicated in 1884). Cogswell who was a wealthy dentist was also a temperance advocate and believed that the gift of cool drinking water would curb the desire for alchohal. Hence the donation of the fountain.

Cogswell designed and commissioned 31 fountains that were distributed around the country, they were not always well received and perhaps 20 in total were actually erected.

The one in Washington D.C. is supposed to be in excellent condition. We have Florence Brigham and the FRHS to thank for literally rescuing this one in FR from the city dump.

Here is the Washington fountain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_Fountain

Here is one near my home in CT http://www.rockvillect.com/Cogswell/fountain.htm

Thanks RJR.
Shell, I think you posted about this fountain?

It would have helped if I knew how to spell the man's name- Pshaw! I couldn't even look it up because of the spelling!
Thanks to you both for the proper name!

More of the walk Tuesday- well, off the *Walk* actually.
The newspaper building!

You can see, behind the FRHerald News, what looks like a burned out foundation: just above the line of the car roofs.
That's the Armory in the distance

Oh! Here is that *new* view of the B&B with the bus station gone!
I think Shelley showed us this first, here.
It's so cool!

Smiths Drug Store. Those pesky clerks were the ones who accused Lizzie of trying to buy poison. It's a restaurant now!
Coco Cabanna or something.
Listen, this is on Main, and once I had walked Main to this point I tried to get the picture and a bus stopped in front of me. I had to stand in the middle of the street, with no traffic moving at all- yet this car from nowhere almost ran me over. (Well I was in the middle of the intersection)

Anyway, this is to Spring Street. Once I walked Main, I might as well have smoked 6 whole cigarettes- everyone comes outside the businesses and has their smoke break- I think they probably can't stop thinking about the next cigarette. It's $5 a pak up there!

Bad photo- oh well...

When we got back to the House, people were pouring out the side door- *How many people can you pack into a Volks Wagon?*
Lots of interest in the tours. We waited a bit in the gift shop and watched the Liz Montgomery movie. I think Dee must have every word of the dialogue memorized!

Then we called Len, and Stef, Harry and myself went to The Liberal Club to eat supper. Excellent fish and chips! Yum!
We did not solve the Borden Murders during the meal.

RJR @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:42 am wrote:I've been up too long to really make a go at this but I promise I'll try to give it some more research and maybe I'll do a blog post on it.

That said the Cogswell Fountain was donated to the city by Dr. Henry Cogswell in 1883 (dedicated in 1884). Cogswell who was a wealthy dentist was also a temperance advocate and believed that the gift of cool drinking water would curb the desire for alchohal. Hence the donation of the fountain.

Cogswell designed and commissioned 31 fountains that were distributed around the country, they were not always well received and perhaps 20 in total were actually erected.

Thanks, Ron. I really appreciate the history you provided on this fountain - very interesting. I don't imagine these fountains were well received with alcohol being a desired drink. It is unfortunate that these fountains were erected around the country as a classy symbol for promoting this man's personal anti-alcohol believes.

Shelley @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:25 pm wrote:The one in Washington D.C. is supposed to be in excellent condition. We have Florence Brigham and the FRHS to thank for literally rescuing this one in FR from the city dump.

Here is the Washington fountain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_Fountain

Shelley @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:27 pm wrote:Here is one near my home in CT http://www.rockvillect.com/Cogswell/fountain.htm

Thanks for the links, Shelley. These fountains are very detailed and quite different, aren't they? I enjoyed second link you provided because of the history it contained.

(Partial quote) Kat @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:33 pm wrote:... Shell, I think you posted about this fountain? ...

You are right, Kat, Shelley has previously posted about this fountain, which I apparently missed when I reviewed these topics. I did a search of the word Cogswell and found the following links where Shelley posted information this fountain:

On page 2 of the thread titled: Where did emma stay?
viewtopic.php?t=2619&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=25

As well as on page 3 in the thread titled: June 2007 Visit to Lizzie's House.
viewtopic.php?t=2851&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=50

Kat, I hope you were not offended with my "Gotcha" post - I certainly did not mean to offend you in anyway, as I have a great deal of respect for you.

Great pics, Kat, I can at least be in Fall River in spirit anyway. What is that huge building to the right of the Kelly house? An apartment building? A business of some sort? I don't think Lizzie would recognize the place, so many changes to the area.

I think we could write an article on this millionaire dentist and all his many fountains. I love that they have replaced Dr. Cogswell's full life-sized figure with its stern looks with an urn!

Dr. C looks pretty stern with his glass of water in one hand and The Pledge of Sobriety in the other. I bet he was the darling of the Women's Temperance Union

Yes Susan: That brick building is a marvelous old structure. It belongs to the Catholic Church. I believe it use to be Saint Mary's grammar school.

The old building was built around 10 or 12 years before Lizzie's death. It has a Spring Street address. When Lizzie lived on 2nd Street, this portion of Spring Street did not exist, though St Mary's had it's parochial house on the site, along with a couple of residences, and some stables.

twinsrwe @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:52 pm wrote:Kat, I hope you were not offended with my "Gotcha" post - I certainly did not mean to offend you in anyway, as I have a great deal of respect for you.

Oh I have a great time talking to you! No problem- I promise!

Susan. I don't know what that building is. I never saw it before. It wasn't there when I took the picture!




Harry, Shelley- what is that building? It must be on Third Street or Spring?
. . . .
Ooops, I see MB and I crossed in posting...
Thanks MB

I believe that's St. Mary's school on Spring St. It wasn't there in 1892 as Spring St. didn't cross Second St. I believe the school then was on Second Street as shown in Rebello. Radin's book refers to the boys coming from the school to try to get pears from the Borden trees.