Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Hey Har- any more buildings?
My next grouping is Wednesday with Kash when she came to the House before Stef's lecture, and then after the Lecture at the House with Marilou and Doug and Richard etc.

No, Kat, I don't have any more building photos. Lot's of the inside of the B&B and the cemetery.

Okay-Dokay
That Tuesday evening after dinner, Marilou and Doug Parkhurst came over to the House. They were in Fall River for a few days. We always meet up with them when we come to town.
We spent 2 hours going over the place top to bottom. It was fabulous!
Called them at 9:30 and they jumped in their clothes and were there in 15 minutes!
I passed on going to the celler. I don't like to go there anymore. There's been EVP work going on down there and I don't know if that's why I'm not interested in going down there.

I did finally have an *experience* in the House. Took 3 stays to get that...
I'll talk about that later. Not too scary or anything.

Thanks, Michael, and Kat, and Harry.....
I guess that would explain why I don't recall seeing that building in any of the pics of Second Street during the 1890s, wasn't built yet. I just went to the LBVM&L site to confirm just that, heres a pic of Second Street during the 1890s:


Just houses as far as the eye can see, no buildings of any great size. I just keep thinking that Lizzie would be hard pressed if she came back today to be able to find her old home; outside of the Borden home and the remuddled Kelley house and St. Mary's on the corner, do any other landmarks still exist on the street?

As far as any architecture from Lizzie's day, landmarks that is, there is little to nothing left.

The beginning of 2nd street, where it starts at Pleasant, was once the rear entrance to the Borden Block, better known as the Academy Building. But, 2nd Street from Pleasant to Borden street was removed and a walkway or public square now stands there.

As you go up 2nd the first historical building is of course 92, then the butchered Kelly house, which was a marvelous Cape Cod at one time. Continuing up 2nd is St. Mary's.

Quite a bit up you will find many old tenement homes and a handful of very Large homes.......one is the old St Mary's Convent.

There is the old Covel Carriage house which was built in the 1870s. It is now a 2nd rate apartment house. Unknown to most, but must have been a wonderful building in its time.

Other than the 2nd street address and St Marys Church the next largest landmark would be St Mary's Convent on the corner of Middle and Second Street, a large ornate brick building, which is of course, an apartment building. Cheers to that. At least they did not knock it down.

The only other building, and understand all these buildings are blocks away from 92, is the Flat Iron Building, built around 1908. It sits on the corner of 2nd and Plymouth Avenue and is shaped like a "Clothes Iron" of course. It's very long, white brick, 3 story and ugly, but still historically significant.

All and all, not much left, at least in Lizzie's immediate neighborhood.

Kat @ Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:58 am wrote:I did finally have an *experience* in the House. Took 3 stays to get that...
I'll talk about that later. Not too scary or anything.

I can't stand the wait!!! What happened????

Kat @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:35 pm wrote:

twinsrwe @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:52 pm wrote:Kat, I hope you were not offended with my "Gotcha" post - I certainly did not mean to offend you in anyway, as I have a great deal of respect for you.

Oh I have a great time talking to you! No problem- I promise!

Thanks, Kat. That's what I wanted to see. I enjoy talking to you, too, and there is nothing wrong with having a little fun while we are doing it.

Angel @ Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:57 am wrote:

Kat @ Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:58 am wrote:I did finally have an *experience* in the House. Took 3 stays to get that...
I'll talk about that later. Not too scary or anything.

I can't stand the wait!!! What happened????

I can't stand the wait, either, Kat. It sounds interesting; you have my curiosity working overtime.

Marilou and I are back home in Vermont after our visit to Fall River last week and a subsequent trip to Connecticut. It was great to see everyone gathered again in Fall River! Stefani's presentation at the public library was as interesting and well presented as her previous programs; I especially enjoyed the video clips of "Lizzie" on the internet, none of which had I seen before. The audience numbered about fifty and filled the room where the program was held. At the B&B we visited with Kat, Harry, Stefani, Richard, Michael, and Lee-ann, talked about Lizzie and other things, and as Kat mentioned above explored the house from top to bottom! On another day Marilou and I took the official tour led by tour guide, Samantha.

We arrived on Tuesday and after dinner drove around Swansea (Gardner's Neck, Ocean Grove, and Luther Corner though we did not make it inside the Luther Corner store this trip). On Wednesday Marilou and I drove to Taunton, about fifteen miles north of Fall River, and saw the site of the old jail building where Lizzie was held before her trial. The historical society in Taunton has a fine museum with many exhibits highlighting Taunton's past and our tour guide there was well informed and most helpful. I had been wanting to see the Maritime Museum in Fall River and on Thursday we spent several hours there. It is a great place to see ship models, illustrations, and learn about the Fall River steamers. The Maritime Museum also has an exhibit about the Titanic.

On Friday as Marilou and I were getting ready to depart we decided to drive up the coast east of New Bedford and see the towns/villages of Mattapoisett, Marion, and Onset. All are picturesque coastal villages with houses and buildings dating to the nineteenth century and nice views of their respective harbors.

Much still to see and do; we'll be heading back to southeastern Massachusetts sooner rather than later!

I didn't mention in my previous post that it was nice to see Kash again at Stefani's public library program!

Same here Doug! Always a pleasure. Did you like the way I handled those parking meter quarters? Slick, huh?

kash

Yes! We want to hear about Kat's experience!

Susan---I like that: remuddled!

Hi Again Doug,
Any recommendations on places to stay in Vermont? For two chicks who love to bicycle and eat lots of good food (wineries?) B&B's??

:0)
kash

Yes, Kash, that was an amazing trick with the quarters!
And you had just had a weekend of biking around Cape Cod I think?

Marilou brought 2 tins of cookies she had made and we had that with coffee at the House apres lecture.
Thanks, Marilou.
(She is now famous for always bringng homemade cookies to the lectures).
I am glad to hear of your return trip experiences on the way home- thanks Doug!

oops-i mustve been delerious.

To continue-
(I didn't mean to make you guys wait on the "ghost" story- I was very tired last night and went to bed early- besides it's not much of a story).

Harry and I spent the morning at the cemetery and then met up with Stef and we went to lunch at a local hang-out. That's when Har & I first met Richard. We ate and talked and then went back to the B&B where we were staying and I showered and changed. We waited for Kash to call, upon arriving in town for the lecture after working all day at the hospital.

Shelley was there at the House and she and Richard found their way to the Library and we took Kash.

It was good to see Bill Pavao there, and Shelley's Borden friends (sisters). Of course, Len was there and showed his support. Others also there but mostly already named.

Lee ann made sure Kash got to her car (near 92 Second Street) as Kash had to get back to Boston.

Some of us returned to the House afterwards and Marilou managed to make delicious coffee and served her cookies. It was so cool- like she was our Hostess.

I think we stayed up until midnight- it's hard to leave each other, once gathered.

Some pics from Wednesday will follow.

Did I miss it? You mentioned an "experience" at the house.

I am curious now more than ever because of my little evp recorder that I had when I was on my trip to the house. It belongs to my friend and she hasn't listened to it with her equipment yet because she's on tour (belongs to a band), but I heard a part of it before I gave it back to her. When she let me take it on my trip she told me that she had put in brand new batteries and that the recorder was able to record for eighteen hours. I put it on at 8 that evening and had it on the whole time till I went to bed at 2 am. It was on throughout the seance (it picked up all the knockings on the table in answer to the questions, which I thought was cool) and until I went to bed. There were no specific sounds in the room to speak of (I cannot account for some rustlings and crunching sounds on the recording- I didn't hear them when I was trying to get to sleep.) It recorded the sudden ringing of my phone and the subsequent conversation I had with Tracey. But then afterwards I went to sleep. It seems as soon as I went to sleep someone or something turned off the recorder. It couldn't have been done accidently because it was on the dresser next to the bed. It was turned off after it had been on only 6 hours. I can't account for that. When I checked the recorder later, the batteries were still good. So I don't understand that. The door was locked.

Ok- I had to draw the attic rooms as I don't recall there is a floorplan extanct.

It was very early Thursday morning, maybe 5 am. Harry was not up yet. I was in an awakened state, hoping to fall back asleep. I heard a lot of creaking coming from his side of the wall, along the floor, at odd times every night- and never mentioned it to anyone. I figured it was structural noises. By odd times, I mean a ripple of them, and then no more after that bout of noises.

This was different from that, tho.
This was at least 6 distinct and seperate knocks going away from my bed toward the recessed window area, along the baseboard. Let me stress- this came from Harry's room, not mine.
<knock>
<knock>
<knock>
<knock>
<knock>
<knock>
That got my attention!
I didn't get up, but lay there wondering.
Then it repeated.
<knock>
<knock>
<knock>
<knock>
<knock>
<knock>

That was it. But I had a weird feeling along with it.
It could have been wood expanding and contracting I suppose- but I never heard it before or since and I had stayed in that room previously, on another visit- and had been in that room a few nights this time, before this happened.

Next evening I finally told Lee ann about it and she told Harry and myself that she had just put some toys in the trunk in his room- a ball and some jacks, and some marbles, for the children who supposedly *play* up there.
I think she had done that only wthin a day or two of this happening.

Here is my 2 part diagram.

Come play with us, Kat! Harry's still sleeping...

Sorry, couldn't resist. I have a weird sense of humor & do not really take these things lightly...altho I joke about practically everything.

I do find it interesting that children entities seem to have attached themselves to 92...not the adult entities that are expected.

The reason for the children is of course the Ladowick Borden murder/suicide case and those poor children dropped into the well next door. Why they hang out at #92 beats me, especially since the girl child survived. But guests love the story and like the idea of the children and the Phantom Kitty. And I hate to spoil people's fun! Maybe the kids are yearning for Dave's cooking and hatchet cookies.

Oh please excuse, Ellen- we crossed in our posts.

In Canada, we have this great show called Rescue Mediums. It's probably viewable in NY state or via satellite.

http://www.wnetwork.com/tv_shows/shows/ ... /index.asp

The premise is these two wonderfully quirky British ladies set out to an undisclosed location (so far only in eastern Canada). They pick up psychic impressions before hand, making notes, doing drawings, etc. They then meet briefly with the homeowners & set out to contact spirits. Their focus is on releasing the troubled spirits & often it's quite touching. Afterward, they compare what they experienced with independent research & often the results are quite amazing. A few times they have found they pick up spirits not actually focused on the property in question, but related to the general locale & end up on side trips.

Who knows what kind of tricks can be pulled on TV, but these two generally seem quite legit IMO & they are enormously entertaining.

Ever since I 1st saw the show I've wondered what they would make of 92 and/or Maplecroft---altho they have not gone to any "infamous" sort of locations, just private homes & the occasional B&B.

Maybe we should write and invite them to come. We sure have had plenty mediums, ghosthunters, psychics, -and one or two psychos over the years.

The trouble is, so many people know all about the Borden story, and Lizzie- and there is so much online and in My Space from visitors to the house that it is easy for frauds to come pre-prepped and "reveal" their impressions. I would love for the real deal, who knows nothing to come in "cold". Now that would be interesting. I am not impressed with the doors swinging open -the traffic on the street produces that phenomenon, especially when the big buses pulled in.

duplicate post

Maybe we should write and invite them to come. We sure have had plenty mediums, ghosthunters, psychics, -and one or two psychos over the years.

The trouble is, so many people know all about the Borden story, and Lizzie- and there is so much online and in My Space from visitors to the house that it is easy for frauds to come pre-prepped and "reveal" their impressions. I would love for the real deal, who knows nothing to come in "cold". Now that would be interesting. I am not impressed with the doors swinging open -the traffic on the street produces that phenomenon, especially when the big buses pulled in.

I don't get scared of this stuff, either. I usually think there's a natural explanation, but it was quite a coincidence about the toys. At home I can blame other sources for noises, like the cats!

I did not want to go into the cellar this trip, at all.
Last April I went down once to get a bottle of water (other guests drank my stash ) and did not go down again.
This time I went down once to get a roll of TP and when Doug and Marilou came Har took them down alone. I did not go.

I used to be drawn to the place.
I know EVP experiments have been going on down there- maybe that's why I stay away? I don't know.

Here is Kash at the House, when we gathered before Stef's lecture. Just in from Boston!

We were trying to burn a dress!

Not only was my camera misfiring, my batteries kept running low, altho that had not happened since I bought batteries that matched my camera- Kodak.

I did run this thru Photoshop. It was very dark- the flash wouldn't work.

Kash too has glowing-footwear-while-seated-on-Andrew's-sofa syndrome.

The "Rescue Mediums" go on the request of the homeowner, so it would be up to Lee-Ann or the owner of Maplecroft. Also, they seem to focus on spirits who are causing a ruckus (want help & attention). Both Lizzie houses seem pretty benign.

Still---the 2 them seem to be very powerful psychically as a partnership & it would be really interesting to see what they could make of the place(s).

Ellen & Kat both had probs that way & I seem to recall others having had battery/camera probs before. I wonder if that has to do with an excess of energies flying around the place.

I will post more pics later. This is high-traffic time on the Forum- 2 pm on Wednesday!

I think Kash's footwear is supposed to glow- she bikerides.
I remember thinking that to myself when I saw her.
Sorry I did not elucidate after I saw the final picture.
Yes we are looking for that, in that spot, aren't we?

Kash Caught baking a dress!
Uh-Oh!

Cooking a dress? We were going to boil it in the pot!

Kash at the front door- #92 Second Street

Me in the parlour

After the talk, back at the House.
This is Richard and Harry

I asked, after each photo- "Permission to Post?"
I hope that anyone who wishes to post photos asks the subject first.

Here are Marilou and Stefani, the Star Of The Show! Yay!
In the parlour, at the B&B, Wednesday night, August 15th, 2007.

Kat @ Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:39 pm wrote:
I did not want to go into the cellar this trip, at all.
Last April I went down once to get a bottle of water (other guests drank my stash ) and did not go down again.
This time I went down once to get a roll of TP and when Doug and Marilou came Har took them down alone. I did not go.

I used to be drawn to the place.
I know EVP experiments have been going on down there- maybe that's why I stay away? I don't know.

That's strange, Kat. On my recent, and first, trip to 92 Second, ( Aug. 3 & 4th) I was very drawn to the cellar. I even spent some time there alone on the 4th while we were all preparing for the "mourning tour". Of course, it was the day time with the lovely sun shining in.... I'm not really "into" the supernatural, but I do have a good intuitive sense and all I got was a really benign feeling about the place. It's interesting the way different people can have different experiences of the same place.

I used to go down there a lot. I've taken friends on tours of it. I wrote about it in The Hatchet as a good place.
I never had a problem with it until April, now August as well.

I believe enough in other people's experiences to know that paranormal phenomenon DOES happen, but how to interpret it, whether it is ghosts, spirits or just focused and patterns energies, is any one's guess. I don't come over on either side of the fence. But like Houdini, I don't like it when people lie about it or fake it. I think that defeats a serious search for the truth.

Having said that, I too have a feeling that the Borden house is calm and friendly, not angry or disturbed. Perhaps that's just my mental projections, but mental projections are most important when it comes to the paranormal. It's possible that the house was settled and free of disturbed energies, but ghost hunters and other people coming along and projecting all sorts of wacky energy INTO the place could suddenly create something. I think the mind is very powerful, and your mind can PROJECT into something energies that may not have previously been there.

Anyway, perhaps this isn't the thread to discuss that! Kat, let's see more pix!

Kat, I'm reposting the Group Shot because it comes in sequence. It was taken on Wednesday night right after your Parlor shots.

From left (top stair) to right (bottom stair) is Richard, Stef, Mike, Kat, Doug, Marilou.

Richard- you must post your unique- Andrew eye's angle of the hatchet from the sofa. It is a corker!

That's a nice group shot, if I do say so myself.

Yes it is except for that poor skinny girl in the lower left hand corner wearing my hat. She looks rather stiff.

I sent photos off to get permission to post.

Who knows how long that might take?

But I did take some of the interior of the House, and the trapdoor thing in Andrew's closet that goes behind his bedhead. Those are timeless- I can show those.

Guest room.
There was also a small rocker in there.
I moved the chairs to where they would have been. Did anyone take a photo with the chairs in the proper place?

Guest room from doorway

View out the guestroom front window- now