Ash Street Jail in New Bedford

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:46 pm

Hi to everyone

My name is Steve and I am new to this Lizzie Borden Forum so I hope I am doing all this right. I was born and raised in Fall River, Ma. and I was born on the same day as Lizzie (July 19) 98 years after Lizzie was born. . I am just curious if their is anyone else in the forum that also shares the same birthday as Lizzie and I?
Also I have been reading all the posts in the different topics in the forum and especially the ones about the different places that are connected to Lizzie Borden. What I haven't seen mentioned much is the Ash St. Jail in New Bedford. I worked at this jail for 5 years. This is where Lizzie was held in detention during the time period of her trial in New Bedford in 1893. It is the oldest operating jail in the United States. Next to the jail is the old sheriff's house on Court St. What alot of people might not know is that Bridget Sullivan (the Borden maid) lived and worked at this Sheriif's house after the murders and during the year of Lizzie's trial. Just thought I'd share this bit of info and that maybe people might want to include it on their visit to New Bedford to see the court house since it is right down the road from the court house on Court St. Corner of Ash St. and Court St. I have a picture of myself outside the jail and I will post it as soon as I get it scanned.

hhtiles · Post by **hhtiles** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:07 pm

hello - ive been to all those places you mention. the one new bedford disappointment was th3 hetty green museum on center street.

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:07 pm

Welcome, Steve,

It's good to have yet another "local" here.

So how do you think Bridget would have made out as Tom Hodgson's housekeeper?

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:22 pm

Thanx for the warm welcome Fairhavenguy. For some reason i could see Bridget working for Nelson but NEVER for Hodgson LOL. It was interesting working at the Ash St. jail because for one thing the area where they used to hang prisoners is still there and if our Miss. Lizzie was found guilty this is where she would have been hung.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:48 pm

Hi!
Isit true they still had Lizzie's bunk stored away?
(I think I read this?)

We are interested in the jail, especially Harry, but when we got to New Bedford we forgot!!

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:22 am

Hi Kat. Yes it is true that they still have her bunk stored away. I have laid on it.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:08 am

OK..I want my next trip to Lizzieland to include a power nap on that bunk !

Tracy...

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:56 pm

Hi Tracy. Its actualy not a comfortable bunk at all. Its all made of metal. But I'm sure Miss. Lizzie had a softer comfortable mattress on it. But even so....Its hard for me to imagine her in an actual jail behind bars. If she is innocent.....my god how this woman suffered. The cells are extremely small and theres no privacy at all. They are bare brick walls with no windows to the outside. They have regular steel bars on the doors. She must have been a woman of extroadinary inner strength. They try to make it sound like she had it easy at the Taunton jail.........but let's face it....a jail is still a jail.

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:27 pm

thanks and welcome Steve, that is really interesting, can you imagine how she must have felt
being locked up like that? Inner strength, yes lots
of it. thanx again

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:55 am

Thanks for the bed info Steve. So...if we come to that neck-o-the-woods soon (again), may we look you up and see the bed ? I owe FairhavenGuy a visit too, as I missed him during my first two trips.

Tracy...

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:17 am

Nancie @ Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:27 pm wrote:thanks and welcome Steve, that is really interesting, can you imagine how she must have felt
being locked up like that? Inner strength, yes lots
of it. thanx again

I agree..... I can not imagine being jailed for months like that. You have to give Lizzie credit... she never cracked. Not one time.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:03 am

I read she had some bad times in jail in Taunton. She said so in her *Interview**. Also she was sick with bronchitis(***) and pretty under-the weather at times. The night she was arrested after the inquest she supposedly totally broke down sobbing and vomiting so the doctor needed to be called.*
Oh,, and she fainted in court.
Maybe your definition of cracked means she didn't talk about the case?

..........
*Lizzie “gave way to her feelings and sobbed as if her heart would break. Then she gave up to a violent fit of vomiting...Dr. Bowen was sent for and he succeeded in relieving her physical sufferings.” (Porter, 66)

**Interview: "'To tell the truth, I am afraid it is beginning to to tell on my health. This lack of fresh air and exercise is hard for me. I have always been out of doors a great deal, and that makes it harder. I cannot sleep nights now, and nothing they give me will produce sleep. If it were not for my friends I should break down, but as long as they stand by me I can bear it."
and
"'There is one thing that hurts me very much. They say I don't show any grief. Certainly I don't in public. I never did reveal my feelings, and I cannot change my nature now. They say I don't cry. They should see me when I am alone, or sometimes with my friends.' "...
--from:
Lizzie Borden: A Case Book of Family and Crime In The 1890's. by Joyce G. Williams, J. Eric Smithburn, & M. Jeanne Peterson, editors, 1980, T.I.S.Publications, Bloominton, Ind.

Chapter III-"Lizzie Goes To Trial", subsection: Lizzie In Jail-New York RECORDER Interview, pg.130:

"New York Recorder Interview
September 20, 1892
IN A NEW LIGHT
Lizzie Borden in Jail Awaiting Trial
How She Appeared to a Recent Visitor in Her Cell
Feels Badly Over the Talk that She Shows no Grief"

***Monday, May 15, 1893 Page 1

"LIZZIE BORDEN ILL.

No Serious Results Anticipated
from Her Sickness.

Only Limited Space for Press
Representatives at the Trial.

Testimony of Medical Experts to be
Introduced in the Case.

For the first time since the incarceration of Lizzie Borden at Taunton jail she is under the care of a physician. She has a slight attack of tonsillitis, and it is thought that no more alarming symptoms will appear. She caught cold on the day of her arraignment.

A special to the Standard says the report from Taunton jail this morning is to the effect that Miss Borden is somewhat improved in health and no serious consequences are anticipated.

Dr. Paige, jail physician, said to an Associated Press reporter that Miss Borden's illness is of bronchial nature and came on after her return from the arraignment. The following day she experienced a sudden chill and has since been under his care. Owing to noise in the women's quarter, she has been taken into the keeper's house, where it is quiet. She will undoubtedly be in fair condition at the time of her trial."

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:58 pm

Hi Kat. Yes, I have read that interview also. The point I was trying to make is that no matter what Lizzie DID or DIDN'T do on August 4, 1892. She was undoubtedly a LADY per societies view. She was brought up in a modest home for elite of the time but she still had a live in maid all her adult life up to that point and also had the modest allowance and material things that allowed her to live a life of leisure to a degree. She never had to work a day in her life. She had freedom to engange in philanthranpic work of her day. Now you take a lady such as she, and place her in a jail for 10 months. Who was in that jail with her at the time? Mostly drunkards, thieves and prostitutes. I for one shudder at the thought of being put in that circumstance and I'm sure it must have been a nightmare for Miss. Lizzie. As for what Audrey was saying about her "not cracking" I believe she meant in public. That is what I meant also when i referrred to her great inner strength. One must keep in mind when studying Lizzie's life that these 10 months in, excuse the language (hades), is what shaped the Miss. Lizbeth persona that emerged after the trial.

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:00 pm

Nice, Steve, I agree, the inner strength was phenomenal. The quotes from papers of the time
we have to take with sceptic minds.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:01 pm

OK....

A story...

(You are not going to believe this one!)

When I was younger (already married) my husband and I were friends with a neighbor couple. We were about the same age, went to the same church and had a lot of similiar interests... Anyway-- the men went off fishing one weekend so us girls decided to go out and paint the town..

We went to a Guitars and Cadillacs and were having a good time-- dancing with eachother (as only females will do) and innocently flirting with various men in the bar...

There was this cute guy there who we were both making "eyes" at and smiling at, etc. He was with this "rough" looking girl... Eventually she got mad and came over and demanded in an "unkind way" to know what we were "looking at". My friend was a little ripped and she did not respond kindly either... All heck broke loose and they girl hit my friend, open palmed in the nose... CRACK! I immediately got to my feet and ripped the bandanna off her head and threw it up on an umbrella table causing her to whirl around -- I hit her with a roundhouse punch knocking her to the floor immediately... Needless to say.. all heck broke loose and my friend and I ended up getting taken to the local jail for barroom brawling! OMD! It was TERRIBLE. Luckily I was just drunk enough not to really care all that much--- but sober enough not to get any alcohol related charged added on...

Anyway... We ended up in a holding cell for 5 hours waiting for the men to get back to town to bail us out... The charges were dropped as long as we all agreed to split the cost of the $230 in damages we did to the bar and never to enter the place again....

I was in the hoock for about 5 hours-- I DID have to change my clothes into a terrible jail uniform which was green and the same material as doctor's scrubs and they took my "foundation garments" from me... Most of the other women in the same holding cell were there on alcohol charges, DUI or public intoxication but there were two hookers and a woman who was arrested for domestic assault. We played Spades while waiting for our husbands to come with one of the hookers and the assaulter...

It was TERRIBLE to be in there for that short time and I can not imagine being in such a place for months.... (I never used the "facilities" while there)

If I had to sit in a jail for months I think I would be stark raving mad by the end of it...

I also bet I am the only one on this forum who has ever been in a jail... and I hope the one you would have expected it in the least!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:41 pm

I don't see where you say Lizbeth had great inner strength, unless it's on another topic? I have read the stories too, of Lizzie in jail. She had certain benefits, if I'm not mistaken. At Taunton she knew the Matron and was allowed certain privileges. She even requested to stay there rather than be moved as she was more comfortable there. Who gets to request that other than a rich lady? She herself says she showed grief when alone, and that she couldn't sleep. Her illness could very well be stress induced. My only comments were to illustrate that Lizzie probably had a normal reaction to being in jail, good days and bad days. It sounds like she was close to cracking unless she was making up those comments, or the author of the interview was. Actually, I was responding to Audrey. I would prefer that Audrey explain to me what she meant by cracking.

Lady or no, that 10 months in Taunton would turn out to be the only bit of her hide the state got from her for a capital crime- well, 2 capital crimes.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:56 pm

Now Audrey, your fan club may be shocked, but somehow I'm not. Of course you defended your friend! That's your job in life.
Actually I took an infomal poll and almost every male of my acquaintance had been arrested at some time in their life. Now that poll didn't include girls.

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:44 am

Sorry Kat.......I am new here to this forum and didn't mean to speak for Audrey or anyone else for that matter. I just felt that Audrey and I were of one mind on this one. Maybe you have to spend some time in jail yourself to understand this one. Again, like Audrey ( I am shocked by the way....LOL) I spent one night locked up in the same jail we are talking about here. It wasn't pleasant by any means and even if you gave me a comfortable mattress and pillow I still wouldn't want to spend 10 months as a guest of the Commonwealth. I mentioned Lizzie's inner strength on an earlier post under this topic on Jan.13. And just by Lizzie's own comments about her ordeal in jail in that interview it again tells me she had enormous inner strength to bear it all. And YES..even today when convicted of some federal crimes you DO have a say as to what jail you want to be housed in no matter how rich you are......depends on if it's a hardship to your family for visits..etc.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:53 am

I see your comment now, on the 13th.
And yes a person may request, but who gets that dispensation? I was thinking of Martha Stewart.

Are you a correctional officer? Your profile says RN.

Do you guys think of Lizzie as a sort of Martha Stewart

with all this inner strength?

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

I found this on the internet and thought it was something worth posting. Old Martha is incarcerated in the Alderson prison for women in West Virginia, the first federal prison for women ever built in the United States. We joked about this in class because this was a question on our final exam. We said we the best way to remember the answer, was to remember Martha Stewart. Kat mentioned Martha's inner strength...

http://www.marthatalks.com/

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:18 am

Thanks for the link. That's interesting!
(I looked at the "Brief" and it's dated December, 22, 2004, for those who don't want to read the whole thing.

)

More signs of suffering for Lizzie:

"Unknown newspaper, June 6, 1893"

"LIZZIE BORDEN
FACES HER JUDGES.

To Be Tried for the Murder of Her
Father and Step-Mother.

TWELVE JURYMEN SELECTED.

People Mistook the Prisoner for Bridget
Sullivan, the Servant, So
Ordinary Was Her Appearance
and Carriage.

......
Mistaken For Bridget Sullivan.

It was just 11 o'clock when a closed carriage drew up at the rear of the court house. A deputy sheriff stepped out of it and held out his hand to assist Lizzie Borden. The crowd which had increased to large numbers, pressed forward in a sort of frenzy to catch a glimpse of the woman, but she slipped quietly into the building before they were able to do so.
The woman who walked quietly to her place in the prisoner's dock, was not the woman in appearance that the pictures of her that have been printed from time to time would lead one to suppose. The impression has been general that Miss Borden presented an appearance of delicate refinement. How true to the facts that impression has been was illustrated this morning. Those in the court room who had never seen her before, thought when she came in that she was not Lizzie Borden, but Bridget Sullivan, the servant girl. Her face is strong rather than refined.

A Cheap Costume.

Miss Borden was attired in a costume of black. She wore a hat that came down over her forehead and was turned up behind. It was trimmed with black lace, old blue velvet and a few feathers. The whole costume was what a woman would have described as cheap. Under the hat was a face that had no features that would make it attractive; though some of the lines which appear there have undoubtedly been emphasized by the long confinement and the anxiety and tension of feeling which have naturally been Miss Borden's since the day the double murder was committed. If her eyes were brighter they would be called steel colored, but there is a dullness in them that suggests suffering.
There is a dullness too about her hair. It is of a peculiar shade of brown that is hard to describe, otherwise than as a muddy brown. It has that look on it too that gives it the appearance of sickness. Her complexion is poor. Her nose, which is not fine, tilts upward. Her upper lip protrudes over the lower. They are quite thick. Her mouth is large and runs down in straight lines toward the corners. Her cheeks bulge somewhat over her lower jaws. In figure she is short and stout. She challenged the second talesman, called in a voice that was firm, steady and of not unpleasant quality."
--

--I had been reading the Crowell news items and this part jumped out at me and I had marked it, last month. I don't post it as my opinion, but for those who may not otherwise have access to this type of material.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:21 am

I think Lizzie had nerves of steel and maybe that is what I mean by inner strength.

It certainly took ovaries to remain in Fall River following the trial-- but I also think she secretly felt that she would emerge as a sought after hostess and clever party giver... Once she saw this was not the case she might have stayed as an "I'll show you" gesture or maybe she really was so dull it woudn't occur to her to move.. You would think that as much as she loved the theatre and Boston that she would have moved into a smart Back Bay or Beacon Hill townhouse. Maybe she liked being "one of few" (richest) versus one of many as she would have been elsewhere...

Inner strength? Oh yes... I would think if she did it she would need it to just do it and if she didn't she put up with a lot of abuse after the fact!

As a disclaimer....

I have never been back to jail! I didn't eat the food there and when Thayne came to bail me out I sprinted out of there like Flo-Jo!

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:51 am

Kat @ Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:48 pm wrote:Isit true they still had Lizzie's bunk stored away? (I think I read this?)

We are interested in the jail, especially Harry, but when we got to New Bedford we forgot!!

In the February 2004 issue of THe Hatchet, I wrote an article ("Bits and Pieces", page 43 - "Prisoner #3517") which included information on Lizzie's stay at the Ash Street jail.

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:32 pm

In the February 2004 issue of THe Hatchet, I wrote an article ("Bits and Pieces", page 43 - "Prisoner #3517") which included information on Lizzie's stay at the Ash Street jail.

Hi Harry......can u maybe post a link to that article you wrote? I would love to read it.

Audrey.........you must stop.......if I start to like you anymore then what I do it's going to be scandalous...LOL. You are awesome in your way of thinking and I find your insight on Lizzie refreshing for a change. I'm beginning to think that you think like she did.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:14 pm

I did forget to add...

They make you undress in front of a "matron". Mon Dieu!

I did not have to be "searched" -- but it was bad enough.

The woman who "processed" me was one of those who really liked the sense of power that uniform gave her.. When I removed my stockings she asked me what they were... She said something like "those are not pantyhose" and I said "I haven't worn tights since I was 16, these are stockings". She snottily said aloud as she was writing.. "One pair of nylon stockings." I immediately corrected her and said "those are not made from nylon."

Is it any wonder she hated me???

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:03 pm

Allen @ Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:12 am wrote:I found this on the internet and thought it was something worth posting. Old Martha is incarcerated in the Alderson prison for women in West Virginia, the first federal prison for women ever built in the United States. We joked about this in class because this was a question on our final exam. We said we the best way to remember the answer, was to remember Martha Stewart. Kat mentioned Martha's inner strength...

http://www.marthatalks.com/

Old Martha??? Mon Dieu! We should all be so lucky to look like "old Martha" at 60+! (Of course this is the age my mother predicts I will finally regret having my eye liner "tattooed" on...)

She is an inspiration to women everywhere.... Who says you can't cook your way out of the Trailer Park?

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:16 pm

When I said Old Martha I was not refering to her age at all. I meant it in the same way as I would call my uncle Old Jack, or as my other uncles call him "good ole Jack".I did not think there were some out there who would take it to mean age. I have three tattoos, one on my shoulder, one on my upper left leg, and one on my right thigh, I think by the time I am her age I will regret it. But not right now

. They are all in places I can easily cover with clothing.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:34 pm

I'm seeing a pattern here I think.
We should take a poll.
Those who think Martha was railroaded also think Lizzie was?
Let's go to Stay To Tea and vote!

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:48 pm

I just have my eyeliner done...

I love it! I can get up, and if need be-- wash my face apply some Lust Red lipstick and be ready to go!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:50 pm

There's 2 Poll questions now in Stay To Tea.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:49 am

One word Audrey...OUCH.....

...sounds painful....I don't like anything near my eye....I even have a hard time using eyedrops

...how do they do that?

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:25 am

My eyes puffed up a little and it was tender-- But at what price fabulous? LOL

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:18 pm

I may be seriously considering have my eyeliner tattooed on. Can't hurt any worse than 'regular' tattoos. The "be able to get up and go" factor would be well worth a little pain. Good idea Auds !

Tracy...

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:13 pm

steves719 @ Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:32 pm wrote:
Audrey.........you must stop.......if I start to like you anymore then what I do it's going to be scandalous...LOL. You are awesome in your way of thinking and I find your insight on Lizzie refreshing for a change. I'm beginning to think that you think like she did.

Mon Dieu! Silver tounged devil...

I once wrote a book on scandalous... I called it my teenaged years.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:24 pm

"Sorry Kat.......I am new here to this forum and didn't mean to speak for Audrey or anyone else for that matter."--SteveS

Excuse me- I was a bit rude to you I think.
-Kat

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:50 am

Hi Kat....It's ok....no offense taken. The more I read the different posts under the different topics the more I am comming to realise the wealth of information you possess. I am extremely impressed. I also see that you are trying to see this case from every possible angle and thats the way it should be looked at. This forum is lucky to have you among its members.
As for you Audrey.......the more I know of you through your posts the more I am convinced you are someone that is extremely intelligent, witty and forthright but also with a naughty side....LOL I love it! Maybe it's because I am 1/2 french myself. Who Knows. But in my mind's eye I'm actualy picturing you as a modern Miss Lizbeth......very very loyal and virtueous but with a naughty side that only a privalaged few get to see. I personaly think its the right balance for you and Miss. Lizbeth. It keeps the rest of us guessing and wanting more. Who knows.....there may be a forum discussing you in 100 years.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:42 am

Thanks!
Now I'd like to talk about You!.

What is it like to share Lizzie's birthday? Do you think you think like she would have or being male does that change things? Does it seem you are more suited to getting inside her head or does the modern world prohibit such an encounter?

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:59 am

Good questions Kat

I think being born in the same city as Lizzie and on the same day as Lizzie and being raised surrounded by alot of the descendents of people that actualy knew her. met her, saw her...including my own grandparents, has been a tremendous advantage for me but also a tremendous dissadvantage. I explain this answer by the simple fact that unfortunately alot of the same prejudices are still alive and well among Fall River's citizens. It is not seen as much today but the undercurrent was definitely there when i was a child. There was the regular working class families and then there were the few who lived on the "hill". Maybe a better explanation is it's the difference between the "immigrants" and those of English ancestry. Whether she was innocent or guilty of these murders my heart still goes out to her for withstanding the way she was treated by Fall Riverites after the tragedy. They can be brutal to outsiders......but are the worst towards their own. I wasn't raised in victorian times but I was raised with alot of the same puritan attitudes around me. By Lizzie's own choice of staying in Fall River her fate was determined by the "damned if she does and damned if she doesnt" rule. My grandmother used to tell me that Lizzie stayed in Fall River because of this attitude...she wanted to be there when the murders were proven to be commited by someone else....so she could kind of stick her tongue out and say "told you so" LOL. An undercurrent of stubborness exists in a true Fall Riverite.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:45 pm

This explanation of why Lizbeth may have stayed in Fall River has been published, I think, in the papers? Was your grandmother ever interviewed? Or is this a more common theory than I thought? It's a good one, though!

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:21 pm

This is a picture of the Ash St. Jail where Lizzie was held during the trial and where she would have been hung had she been found guilty.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:02 am

Any pictures of the bed ?..or of her cell ?

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:24 am

Thank you SteveS for the cool photo!

I think Harry found one of the interior online, Tracy...

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:48 am

Thanks Kat. I checked the website, but couldn't find it. I will keep looking.

Tracy...

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:11 am

OK...I haven't found a picture of the bed yet, but the wesite below has a TON of New Bedford area photos, including the Ash Street Jail. There are even some of Mother Teresa in New Bedford (in the archive section).

http://www.jack-iddon.com/x_frames/homepage.htm

P.S. In continuing to look, I found a link for a forum post by Harry from April of 2002. He had a link to some of these very same pictures.

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:05 pm

Thanks Tracy and Harry!

Tracy, I meant there were interior shots of the jail online but I don't think I ever saw one of the bed. Sorry if that was confusing.
You found the link- that is cool!

SteveS: Was that a personal pic or a web pic? Now I'm confused...

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:13 pm

This is the actual booking of Lizzie at the Ash St. jail. She was prisoner #3517.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:10 am

Thanks, but we have seen this from Harry's original link.
May I ask why you are not responding to my questions?

It is good netiquette to give the web-link as your source.

steves719 · Post by **steves719** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:18 am

Kat....again sorry i am still new to all this and im doing the best i can.
I may not know netiquette but i detect a tone in your posts that does not seem to be too full of etiquette. Why do I get the feeling u r talking down to people sometimes? answer that question.
I joined this forum to learn as much as I can NOT to feel like i need to be a college professor or a computer genious.
All you have to do is maybe ask a little nicer and I might answer your questions? I gave u the benefit of the doubt once....but NOT again.
I posted what I posted because i thought people might be interested and I thought we were supposed to share thoughts and ideas. I might have been born and raised in Fall River but for god's sake..have a little decorum in your way you write to people.

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:41 pm

Steve, i appreciate your posts and insight into
Fall River, please keep posting! Kat is Kat, a real
Brat! But there are others here who want to hear
from you, you have already shared a great deal and it is good stuff!