Lizzie Borden Society Forum

The Grein family are prepared to offer SOME of what they have on the Lizzie Borden case on e-bay. There are several letters between Sarah Welch and Mary Grein. The "leave now" letter IS NOT INCLUDED, nor is the letter where Mary Grein received prussic acid from Dr. Bowen. BUT there will be some letters from Sarah Welch to Mary Grein that IS ASTOUNDING, as well as letters from family, to each other. BUYER BEWARE... I have MOST of these (copies) in my possession. I AM NOT, IN ANY WAY, PART OF THIS SELL!! I am under court order, at this time, to release NOTHING.

The Grein family is preparing to write a book. My guess is that they will sell "tid bits", while saving the "best" for the book.

The Grein family and I have had a "falling out". I have corresponded with them for 9 yrs. Sad to say, we parted company.

What they have to sell is AUTHENTIC. It has been checked by the FBI in Quantico Va. BUT... BUT with any luck, I can provide them for free. Buy with care, as the prices are gonna be steep.

TIM BOYD

BOBO, I am so sorry this has happened and you've had a falling out with the Grein family after all those years of communication. I just wish that the family would decide to give these letters to the Fall River Historical Society, as they are historical documentation of the Bordens' lives and those of their employees. Instead they will probably be dispersed to different collectors throughout the US. I shan't be buying, but it will be interesting to see what prices they get.

Tim, I am so sorry to hear that you are going through such a horrible experience with the court order, and that you and the Grein family have parted ways, especially after 9 years of communicating with them.

I want to thank you for giving us the heads-up on the Grein family selling their letters on e-bay.

I also want to say that I am glad to see you posting again; you have been missed.

BANKRUPTED!!! I have purchased from the Grein family, their entire collection of their letters on the Lizzie Borden case.

There are 7 letters between Sarah Welch and Mary Grein. One letter from Dr. Bowen to Mary Grein, 14 letters between the Grein family members, dealing with the sexual abuse in the Borden household, among other letters from Mary Grein to family members about every day life. A SHOCKER is a letter from Mary Grein to her sister in law, Lativia Grein, written 19 days after Mary's attempted suicide by prussic acid concerning Dr. Bowen, that concludes with the words, "I LOVE HIM".. IN CAPITAL LETTERS. A letter from John Morse to Mary Grein, with the words, "darling".

I SOLD MY SOUL TO OBTAIN THESE... NOT SURE JUST WHAT I GOT. Tim

Tim!

You actually bought these items!?

Holy Moly, Tim! You purchased their entire collection? Now that you have ownership of these letters, does that mean you will share these letters with us? You've certainly got my curiosity up; the information you have posted is intriguing!!!

BOBO wrote:BANKRUPTED!!! I have purchased from the Grein family, their entire collection of their letters on the Lizzie Borden case.

There are 7 letters between Sarah Welch and Mary Grein. One letter from Dr. Bowen to Mary Grein, 14 letters between the Grein family members, dealing with the sexual abuse in the Borden household, among other letters from Mary Grein to family members about every day life. A SHOCKER is a letter from Mary Grein to her sister in law, Lativia Grein, written 19 days after Mary's attempted suicide by prussic acid concerning Dr. Bowen, that concludes with the words, "I LOVE HIM".. IN CAPITAL LETTERS. A letter from John Morse to Mary Grein, with the words, "darling".

I SOLD MY SOUL TO OBTAIN THESE... NOT SURE JUST WHAT I GOT. Tim

Unless you intend to keep them proprietary you could scan them to discs and sell the discs.

BOBO, this is startling news indeed! Good grief!
So the family were agreeable about selling to you? It all sounds very intriguing, I have to say! Especially about John Morse, and the good doctor! If only you can speed up the publishing date of your book! Preferably before my Alzheimer's kicks in, please.

Curryong wrote:BOBO, this is startling news indeed! Good grief!
So the family were agreeable about selling to you? It all sounds very intriguing, I have to say! Especially about John Morse, and the good doctor! If only you can speed up the publishing date of your book! Preferably before my Alzheimer's kicks in, please.

The GREIN family was going to publish the book, NOT ME. I write comedy for a living (http://www.funniestman.com), not books. I will be going to Ohio next week to pick up what I will purchase. At this time, I have no idea just how to proceed.

I hocked my entire retirement and after 45 yrs. research on this, I need to make good. ANY legal help on this would be GREATLY appreciated.

Should I go belly up, I hope the tent don't leak.

BOBO, I didn't understand well what you said in the video because of my poor English, but it must be very funny.

Franz wrote:BOBO, I didn't understand well what you said in the video because of my poor English, but it must be very funny.

OFF TOPIC... Franz, that is James Gregory... I AM NOT HIM... We have been together for 25 yrs., I write 'em and James tells 'em.

I am no legal expert, obviously, but I don't think going the literary route would bring much of a financial return, much as I'd like to see a book. Would a TV channel like the History Channel be interested?

BOBO wrote:

Franz wrote:BOBO, I didn't understand well what you said in the video because of my poor English, but it must be very funny.

OFF TOPIC... Franz, that is James Gregory... I AM NOT HIM... We have been together for 25 yrs., I write 'em and James tells 'em.

So you are the origin of all these laughters!

twinsrwe wrote:Holy Moly, Tim! You purchased their entire collection? Now that you have ownership of these letters, does that mean you will share these letters with us? You've certainly got my curiosity up; the information you have posted is intriguing!!!

LIZZIE NEWS.... Page 2 of Sarah Welch's "leave now" letter, to Mary Grein, HAS BEEN LOCATED! It was found among Mary Greins possessions, that I purchased last weekend. The entire 3 page letter has been sold to the Travel Channel. Tim

LIZZIE NEWS.... Page 2 of Sarah Welch's "leave now" letter, to Mary Grein, HAS BEEN LOCATED! It was found among Mary Greins possessions, that I purchased last weekend. The entire 3 page letter has been sold to the Travel Channel. Tim[/quote]

BOBO wrote:

twinsrwe wrote:Holy Moly, Tim! You purchased their entire collection? Now that you have ownership of these letters, does that mean you will share these letters with us? You've certainly got my curiosity up; the information you have posted is intriguing!!!

LIZZIE NEWS.... Page 2 of Sarah Welch's "leave now" letter, to Mary Grein, HAS BEEN LOCATED! It was found among Mary Greins possessions, that I purchased last weekend. The entire 3 page letter has been sold to the Travel Channel. Tim

Wow, Tim! So, the Grein family had page 2 all along and didn't realize they had it? If you don't mind my asking: What was on page 2? Was Andrew Borden mentioned? Was there any details of the abuse that was going on in the Borden household?

I hope you kept a copy of the entire 3 page letter, before you sold it to the Travel Channel. It will be interesting to see what the Travel Channel does with this letter!

twinsrwe wrote:

BOBO wrote:

twinsrwe wrote:Holy Moly, Tim! You purchased their entire collection? Now that you have ownership of these letters, does that mean you will share these letters with us? You've certainly got my curiosity up; the information you have posted is intriguing!!!

LIZZIE NEWS.... Page 2 of Sarah Welch's "leave now" letter, to Mary Grein, HAS BEEN LOCATED! It was found among Mary Greins possessions, that I purchased last weekend. The entire 3 page letter has been sold to the Travel Channel. Tim

Wow, Tim! So, the Grein family had page 2 all along and didn't realize they had it? If you don't mind my asking: What was on page 2? Was Andrew Borden mentioned? Was there any details of the abuse that was going on in the Borden household?

I hope you kept a copy of the entire 3 page letter, before you sold it to the Travel Channel. It will be interesting to see what the Travel Channel does with this letter!

Page 2 was found by a person preserving the letters, papers, etc. It was found in a file box marked "borden recipes".

In the file was a recipe for "dishwater mutton". Yummmm!

Thanks for explaining who found page 2, and where it was found, Tim. very interesting!

I wonder ( ) if the "dishwater mutton" ( ), actually tastes as bad as the name suggests? EEEEWWWW!!!!

I think it would be interesting to start a thread of the "Borden recipes". Of course, that depends on how many recipes were in that file box. Were there enough in there to be worth posting? What do you think?

This is a recipe for dishwater soup that was traditionally used for upset stomach....maybe the Bordens substituted mutton broth for the chicken. It's called dishwater soup because it looks like dishwater. Wouldn't it be remarkable coincidence if this were the antidote for the stomach ailments of early August 1892.

DISHWATER SOUP
1.measure out half cup of rice and add the 8 cups of chicken stock, and a pinch of salt and simmer untill the rice done to soft
2.Add chopped basil leaves
3.When rice is done to taste . At the end pour in the partially beaten egg . Do not beat egg in . Stir once or twice only to move egg around the pan.
4.Serve.
5. May look like dishwater do not be fooled !

BOBO, I am sorry to hear this. But also intrigued.

That Page 2 has been found is great news, Tim! You can boil up your dishwater mutton for supper and spend the winter evenings digesting what Mary Grein had to say! I hope you will tell us the gist of what you find from the whole cache of letters. Also hope that the Travel Channel paid you serious money for the letter.

Mary Grein's recipe file had 17 "borden recipes" on hand. The "dishwater mutton" says that it was to be "dredged in flour", boiled for two hours, and kept "skimmed". There are recipes for "molasses cookies", "johnny cakes", "boiled pigeons" and something called "mush".. made with "boiled taters", with "onions."

One note, "a john m. favorite".. "broiled pears with butter".

Broiled pears with butter sounds quite disgusting. John M certainly liked that fruit! All in all it confirms that the Borden family weren't exactly into gourmet eating.

Actually grilled pears sounds better than boiled! :-)

Page 2 is short, but disgusting. What happened to Sarah Welch should have made her kill both Abby and Andrew. Not to damn sure she didn't.

"she watched and he enjoyed it Lizzie and Emma was forced to behave nowhere to go. call hillard and tell"

Is that in page 2? Can you explain- is the "she" Mary or Sarah? And who is Hillard?

BOBO wrote:Mary Grein's recipe file had 17 "borden recipes" on hand. The "dishwater mutton" says that it was to be "dredged in flour", boiled for two hours, and kept "skimmed". There are recipes for "molasses cookies", "johnny cakes", "boiled pigeons" and something called "mush".. made with "boiled taters", with "onions."

One note, "a john m. favorite".. "broiled pears with butter".

One of the definitions for ‘mush’ is: Something thick, soft, and pulpy.( http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mush ) So, I wonder if Mary Grein’s recipe for “mush".. made with "boiled taters", with "onions" isn’t simply mashed potatoes with onions mixed in.

“Boiled pigeons": So, that’s what happened to those pigeons that Andrew killed; now we know why Lizzie couldn’t get past her father killing the pigeons!!! It's one thing that the pigeons were killed, but quite another thing if you are expected to eat them too!!!

Call me weird, but the “broiled pears with butter” doesn’t sound that bad to me!

BOBO wrote:"she watched and he enjoyed it Lizzie and Emma was forced to behave nowhere to go. call hillard and tell"

OK, I'm confused. BOBO, is this sentence the way it was actually written, or bits and pieces of different sentences? The way the above statement is written, makes no sense to me.

Who is 'she'? What was he enjoying? Lizzie and Emma was forced to behave? How? Who had 'nowhere to go'? Is it City Marshal Rufus B. Hilliard that is referred to here?

Like you, I would imagine it's our old friend Marshal Hilliard, twins. It doesn't make much sense to me either but I take it that Mary is writing that Abby watched while Andrew assaulted/raped her and that the two girls were also present and had to sit still and keep quiet. Mary is contemplating telling Hilliard but says she has nowhere to go.

Am I correct, BOBO?

Well, you made more sense out of that confusing 'sentence' than I did!!! BOBO, I'd also like to know if Curry is correct.

I may have been a bit muddled up in my previous post. It would have been Sarah who was writing of being attacked. I don't want to disturb Tim at this time for obvious reasons, but I don't know whether it's all right to start a thread on the main forum onthis latest revelation from the Grein family letters or not. Does anyone know?

I think we should wait. The ball is in Tim's court; he is the one that holds the actual information contained within that letter.

He may not be able to share much if he has sold the information to The Travel Channel......

Good point, Anthony.