Building destroyed at Tauton State Hospital/Lizzie examined?

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:41 pm

http://www.tauntongazette.com/site/news ... 4232&rfi=6

The article states that it is believed that Lizzie was examined by a doctor from the hospital but admits there is no proof.

Very interesting article about the hospital even without the Lizzie reference.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:08 pm

Great article Audrey.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:42 am

It reminds me of the letter exchange in The Knowlton Papers:

#HK077
Letter, typewritten.

Sept. 22, 1892
My Dear Doctor:-
From such general knowledge as you have of the Borden
case, have you observed in it any indications of insanity? I should be glad to talk with you a moment concerning it, if you can look in when passing this way. There are some indications in the mechanical aspects of the case
that it was the work of a maniac, and I am not sure but that we must explore somewhat in that direction.
Very truly yours,
Attorney General.
Dr. Edward Cowles,
McLean Asylum for the Insane
______________________________

#HK078
Letter, handwritten in ink.

MC LEAN ASYLUM,
SOMERVILLE, MASS.

Hanover, N.H.
Sept. 24, 1892
My Dear Sir:-
In yours of the 22d inst., forwarded to me here from Somerville, I have your question whether from such general knowledge as I have of the Borden case, I have observed in it any indications of insanity?

I shall be absent from home until about the 5th of October, and I cannot call at your office till after that time, but I will then do so should you still wish it.

I will say now, however, that my inferences have been against a theory of insanity in the person charged with the crime, from anything I have so far read concerning her conduct before or after the event. As to "the mechanical aspects of the case", I have not knowledge enough of them to have attempted any inference.

I would willingly talk with you concerning this matter;- I will find time enough for that, altho' an extraordinary winter's work is to begin immediately upon my return.
Very Truly Yours
Edward Cowles
[To]
Hon.A.E. Pillsbury
Attorney General.
______________________________

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:49 am

Thanks for the updated article!

If Lizzie was checked out by a Taunton Dr. then it would have been on the QT by Jennings. I can't see them doing that, personally- but it's not impossible. Jennings would never give Knowlton permission to have Lizzie tested or evaluated.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:11 am

Could it have been done to prepare for an insanity defence had her dream team felt it necessary?

Maybe they did know of evidence which could come to light and wanted a plan in place in case it did?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:24 am

In regard to Lizzie's sanity, there is an article in the Evening Standard dated Sept. 3, 1892, just after the Preliminary hearing. Its quotes an unidentified source which IMHO is Attorney-General Pillsbury. Some of the facts regarding this person may be a little off but that may have been deliberate to hide his identification. The article in part reads:

"One of the prosecuting officials of the Borden case is quoted by the Boston Globe as saying authoritatively on condition that his name be withheld from publication:
"On the day of the murder and very frequently since that time, I have talked with Lizzie A. Borden and have watched her closely. During her entire examination I sat in a position to command a full view of her face. At the inquest I heard her testimony. I believe I have observed her more closely than any other person connected with the prosecution."
"What do I think?"
"In answering that question I will first explain my reasons for framing my opinion of her. During 14 years official work for the State I have seen and dealt with many cases of insanity. I have been brought in constant contact frequently with the inmates of the Taunton Insane Hospital and of the Worcester asylum. I consider myself as well qualified to judge a case of mental irregularity as any man who is not an expert on insanity or a physician accustomed to the treatment of brain diseases.
With such experience, basing my opinion on what I have seen of Lizzie's eyes and movements, her physical make-up and mannerisms, I am loth to believe her a victim of mania.
Her eyes have been very unnatural, and the way she has used them is identical with that of a person mentally deranged. This has been noted when her countenance was in repose, when it was not possibly assumed. The expression I have seen her wear time after time has been surely indicative of mental disturbance.
She has looked wilder and more irresponsible half of the time the past fortnight than any person I have seen in the Taunton hospital for months. My opinion has been corroborated by an expert who was led out of curiosity to attend the hearing one day and observe her. ..."

Pillsbury was a definite advocate of Lizzie being insane. Whether he truly believed this or was trying to use it as an excuse for not going forward with a trial is an open question. Another reason I think it was Pillsbury is because of these excerpts from the Sept. 2, Boston Globe's coverage of the Preliminary, the day before the above article:

" ... On the court’s right District Attorney Knowlton had sat or stood all day, and at the same table Attorney-General Pillsbury was seated, his keen eye fixed on the prisoner’s unexpressive face.
.........
"Attorney-General Pillsbury did not avert his gaze from the prisoner’s face."

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:07 am

That article struck my attention because I used to work as a psychiatric nurse and found that some schizophrenics had a certain look about the eyes which singled them out. Lizzie has that look in the pictures I've seen. And I remember someone commenting that she had an unusual stare that made people uncomfortable. I can't remember exactly where I saw that because it was a while ago.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:28 pm

Interesting topic, I guess they took the idea of Lizzie being insane a bit more serious than I had thought in the past.

"Her eyes have been very unnatural, and the way she has used them is identical with that of a person mentally deranged. This has been noted when her countenance was in repose, when it was not possibly assumed. The expression I have seen her wear time after time has been surely indicative of mental disturbance.
She has looked wilder and more irresponsible half of the time the past fortnight than any person I have seen in the Taunton hospital for months."

I wonder just how Lizzie used her eyes that gave Pillsbury the idea that they were unnatural and indicative of someone mentally deranged?

As for wearing an expression that was indicative of a mental disturbance, well, if she was innocent, what expression should she wear after finding that both her parents had been hacked up? I think that at least would cause some sort of disturbance of the mind at the very least. It would be interesting to see just what expressions that caused him to come to his findings. Thanks for the article, Harry.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:08 pm

Here are more sources for the sanity question going on behind the scenes. My opinion was that if Jennings did have Lizzie examined, word would have gotten out- a leak- so I think it would have been a dangerous move for him.
As I said before tho- it's not impossible.

Collected for those who have not the Knowlton Papers:

Knowlton Papers
On Sanity:

"#HK030
Letter, handwritten in ink.

69 Newbury St. Boston
Aug. 27, 1892

My dear Mr. Pillsbury,
I have received your letter of today.
I do not think that the indications of insanity which you mention, are sufficiently strong or tangible enough to enable me to express an
opinion.
Yours very truly
George F. Jelly"
~~~~~

"#HK032
Letter, typewritten.

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT,
COMMONWEALTH BUILDING,
Boston, Aug. 29, 1892.

Dear Knowlton:-
I regret that your letter was not delivered until this morning. I was here all day Saturday and Sunday forenoon, and could have
been, as I shall be at any time, at your service.
I think of nothing in particular to suggest since I saw you. I have a
line from Dr. Jelly this morning, to whom i wrote, saying that he has no
such knowledge of the case yet as enables him to see any insanity in it.

If you wish to see me at any time this week give me as much notice as
possible, as I shall have to be out of town once or twice during the week.
Yours truly,
Attorney General.
Hon. Hosea M. Knowlton,
District Court House.
~~~~~~~

"#HK069
Letter, handwritten in ink.

HOSEA MORRILL KNOWLTON,
NEW BEDFORD, MASS.

My Dear Pillsbury;-
I have sent for the Sunday Herald. I know nothing of the author-
ship: & I guess you can learn about it from the Boston fellows, more easily than I can. I neither wrote that nor any other word or line that has
been printed, nor suggested or inspired anything that has been written.
I have noticed that the New York papers, the Herald particularly,
thought more of the Gov't case than the Boston papers did. It may have
been an coincidence accident or it may have been the result of the
bribery you said would be done, that the Boston Herald & Globe, which
purported to give my argument stenographically, almost entirely omitted
that part of it which dwelt upon the attempt to purchase the poison.
It is doubtless true that Lizzie Borden wrote to her Marion friends
the day before the murder that she should be over Monday: and would
chop all their wood for them for she had been looking at the axes in the
cellar and she had found one as sharp as a razor.
If this is so, it means insanity.
Yours
H. M. Knowlton
Sept. 12, 1892"
~~~~~

"#HK095
Letter, handwritten in ink.

ANDREW J. JENNINGS,
COUNSELOR AT LAW,
SECTION G. GRANITE BLOCK.
Fall River, Mass., Nov. 22, 1892

Hon A. E. Pillsbury
Attorney General
My Dear Pillsbury
Since my talk with you I have been seriously considering your proposition and have come to the conclusion that I cannot consent to unite with you in the examination proposed. I asked Adams opinion on the advisability of the course proposed without expressing any opinion of my own and also on my return home that of Mr Holmes who to a certain extent represents the Borden girls, without informing him that I had consulted Adams. Both came to the same conclusion that in view of all the circumstances we could not do anything which suggested a doubt of her innocence and that the course proposed would not be wise or expedient on our part.
Sincerely Yours
Andrew J Jennings"

~~~~~~~

"#HK096
Letter, typewritten.

HOSEA M. KNOWLTON. ARTHUR E. PERRY.
COUNSELLORS AT LAW.
OFFICE:
38 NORTH WATER STREET.
{Dictated.}
NEW BEDFORD, MASS., November 22, 1892.

Hon. A. E. Pillsbury,
Attorney-General.
Dear Sir:-
I did not have time to write so fully as I desired
about the sanity business. I could do nothing whatever with Jennings. He
took exactly the position I feared he would, and seemed to regard it as
some sort of surrender if he consented to anything. We can make some
investigations into the family matters without him, but it will not be so
thorough as it would be if we had his assistance.
I note your suggestions about form of indictment, which I will adopt if
we ever get so far; of which, however, I am far from certain.

Yours truly,
H. M. Knowlton"

~~~~~~~

"#HK107
Letter, typewritten.

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT,
COMMONWEALTH BUILDING.
Boston, Nov. 30,1892.
Dear Mr. Attorney:-
The whole procession of reporters has been here this
morning, inquiring about the truth of the statement in this morning's
journal. I have seen none of the reporters, and have not even seen the
story, but am told that it relates to insanity; and that the statement in general is that you or I, or both, have come to the conclusion that she is
insane, and that the case is to be stopped. Perhaps you had better get
hold of it, and I shall later. It is, of course, unnecessary to say to you that there is not one atom of foundation in fact for any of these statements. I have given no living man, woman or child the remotest intimation of my view of the case; not even my wife, who knows as little how I regard it as your wife does.
Adams has been in here in quite a state of excitement, saying that he
has heard an ugly rumor that he was before the grand jury, and liable to
be indicted. I did not ask him the source of it, and said only that I knew
nothing about it; and that it was not likely that it would happen without
any knowledge of mine. Nothing more was said of consequence.
Very truly, yours,

Attorney General."
~~~~~~~

"#HK108
Letter, handwritten.

ATTORNEY GENERAL'S DEPARTMENT,
COMMONWEALTH BUILDING,
Boston, Nov. 30, 1892.

Dear Knowlton:-
Yours and the paper just received. It is all in the highest degree
damnable, but don't see that we can say anything, unless you choose to
deny the statement that that there is any difference between you and me.

I should not wish the public to believe there was, especially as it is not
true; but of course it is doubtful whether anything had better be denied.
I leave it to you to act as you see fit.
Yours truly,

Hon. H. M. Knowlton"

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:14 am

I'm always on the lookout for an "Emery."
I found that Daniel Emery had moved away from Fall River- "removed to Taunton" is how it was put: I thought that was funny, as in *ha-ha*, if he had been committed. Oh maybe he was a phoney alibi for Morse etc. went crazy and was put away.
So I went to the census of 1900 and did find an Emery! I found a Lydia Emery as in Inmate.
I don't know if she is any relation.
But:
I did save 20 pages of census of 1900 that comprise the population of the Asylum, including workers, attendants and inmates there. At approx 50 names per page, that's 1,000 people living, working or being kept at Taunton Asylum! That's a small town! I really didn't know the place supported that many people!
The types of employment of those who worked there was very interesting!
One was a Florist.
One the Supervisor of Nurses.
Chambermaid, Cook, Carpenter, Farmer...

Anyone need any info on this?

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:08 pm

Taunton is a 'state' hospital. It's a pretty big place, still in operation, tho the real old part is fenced off. Sometimes those old state asylums were pretty self-sufficient.

That's cool, Kat, that you got the list of names. I'd very much like a copy.

In one of your Knowlton Papers posts (which was so nice of you to post for those who don't have the book) I was most interested to read the one that spoke of Lizzie's letter to Marion, saying she was coming Monday. The part about the axe was fascinating. I had only read that the friend she sent it to refused to show it to anyone and, I believe, destroyed it.

Another reason Lizzie could have looked off kilter could have been that she might still have been drugged. Dr. Bowen said he gave her morphine all the while she was in the jailhouse. Did it continue when she was imprisoned in Taunton? I believe I read that she had another doctor there who treated her.

I don't know if the defense could block his client from a psychiatric exam today. I am always hearing of prisoners having a psych exam to see if they are able to stand trial. I thought that was ordered by the judge (?).

Thanks for posting the article, Audrey. I'll go there now.

What a great article! It gave the whole history of the place. It still has beautiful grounds. There is a paved road that winds way back, and there are cement benches here and there. So the part that burned down was the part with the dome! Oh no! I wonder how the fire started. Thanks again, Audrey. That was excellent!

RayS · Post by **RayS** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:58 pm

I would tend to think that any innocent person arrested for a crime they did not commit would be acting strange while imprisoned.
We do know that certain deficiencies in vitamins (as in pellagra) can cause "insanity". Remember, corn (maize) was the main food source for many in those days. "Indian bread" (one part maize, two parts rye) was the staple in early 19th century New England. A lack of milk, fresh meat, etc (a sign of poverty) was the cause of pellagra. Many interesting book tell about scientific research in the late 19th and early 20th century.
I heard decades ago that "corn" is considered an animal food in Europe, unfit for human consumption. What does La Francaise say?

lydiapinkham · Post by **lydiapinkham** » Mon May 01, 2006 12:01 pm

Just stopped in to say hello, everyone. I haven't looked in for some time, but this is a great thread! Thanks so much, Audrey, for providing the link about the fire. I've been away for the past week and probably wouldn't have known about the fire without it. What a pity! It was a beautiful building in its day, and though the cold baths and shock treatment sound terrible now, the institution strove to be humane and effective, even changing their terminology from "inmates" to "patients" to maintain residents' dignity--a remarkably progressive approach for the time.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~asylums/taunton_ma/index.html

Thank you to Kat for the fascinating exchange from the Knowlton Papers. It gives a whole new picture of the case, since it has always been emphasized that no mental illness had been found in the family, or apparently, in Lizzie. Instead, reports always concentrated on her remarkable self control and eager following of court proceedings. Of course, that was a year later. The letters are thought provoking. True, her staring gaze might indicate sedation or shock, but it is also very characteristic of afflictions such as schizophrenia. It is the empty gaze that caused doctors to name autism "childhood schizophrenia" when they first took notice of the condition. She does have that unfocused quality in many of her photographs. (I speak from extensive first hand observation of both conditions.)

--Lyddie (The Emery girl's namesake?

)

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon May 01, 2006 7:54 pm

Hi Lyddie! Long time no see.

lydiapinkham · Post by **lydiapinkham** » Tue May 02, 2006 12:39 pm

Hi, Susan! Nice to have some free time to stop by!

--Lyddie

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:02 am

Thats a great article. Loved reading it. Thanks Audrey.