Lizzie Borden Society Forum

The Braga Bridge over a white-capped Taunton River with carousel

Big Mamie shivering in the wind

Confused mallards being blown across the moat at Heritage Park
-not an egret in sight though!

Name that landmark- slightly center right background of photo. Prize? - A package of Peeps marshmallow ghosts!

You have certainly contributed to this site with all those pictures!

Could you tell me what equipment you use?

Shelley @ Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:41 pm wrote:Name that landmark- slightly center right background of photo. Prize? - A package of Peeps marshmallow ghosts!

If you mean the two towers, I believe that is St. Anne's Church on South Main.

Do I gt the marshmallow ghosts?

I agree Rays, I love seeing her pictures! Like I said before, the only thing better would be if I was there taking them! Fall River is quite pretty! Thanks so much Shelley!

Peeps for you Harry! Yay! St. Anne's twin towers it is! I used to go to the 5 pm French Mass at St. Anne's back in the early '70's. I wonder if they still have it.I recall before Notre Dame burned down, there were rival twin towers . Yes, Fall River does have a great beauty indeed if you know where to find it. Many think a lot of abandonned run-down mills have little to offer, but the workmanship of how they are built, some of the Victorian houses, waterfront scenes, and meandering nooks and crannies have a beauty all their own in dawn's early light. The new preservation group is hard at work reclaiming some glorious bits of the past.

The Ponta Delgada arch was just completed recently and dedicated to the many Portuguese who left their homeland to find work in the city of Fall River- many in the fishing and shipping industries. The city pier is still very active. This is a replica of a great arch back in the old country and has a piazza of granite bricks beneath it, and park benches overlooking the Taunton River - it is a lovely spot . The carving is magnificent.

The Fall River Line pier- now State Pier, is still on the very spot where the great old paddlewheelers put in, and is still actively used for unloading cargo vessels, (as I found out by accident when I tried to drive out to the end of the pier).

Just across from the State Pier, and part of the Battleship Cove attraction, is the rail museum. I love the little station house with Fall River on the front.

Just a block south of the rail museum is the maritime museum which contains the most amazing artifacts and fittings from the old Fall River Line Steamers, the Andrea Doria, many ship models, and a large Titanic exhibit featuring a 28 foot model which lights up from the Barbara Stanwick 1958 movie, Titanic! with Clifton Webb. That's Anawan St. to the left of the museum.

Thank you for the pictures!
Is the Museum still open?

That's a good question, Kat. Is the museum still open? Something we need to see the next trip up.

When I see the Fall River Line pier it reminds me of "Me and Brownie" who on that morning of August 4th went down to the pier to watch the ships.

BTW, much was made in the papers of the term "Me and Brownie". I could only find it being used once in the trial (by Thomas Barlow, the "me" of the two, p1442,). Virtually every book on the case mentions this description of the two. Robinson refers to them as "Me and Brown" in his closing argument.

Harry @ Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:13 am wrote:That's a good question, Kat. Is the museum still open? Something we need to see the next trip up.

When I see the Fall River Line pier it reminds me of "Me and Brownie" who on that morning of August 4th went down to the pier to watch the ships.

BTW, much was made in the papers of the term "Me and Brownie". I could only find it being used once in the trial (by Thomas Barlow, the "me" of the two, p1442,). Virtually every book on the case mentions this description of the two. Robinson refers to them as "Me and Brown" in his closing argument.

Was he any relation to Arnold R. Brown?
Inquiring minds want to know.

Yes. the museum is still open! They have a website.

I asked because the website stopped working.
I will try it again, thanks.

[Edit here]
Now I can't even find the website.
http://www.fallriverma.org/tourism/tour ... isplay.asp

Anybody have the address?
I'd appreciate it.

I see your point Michael- yes it does go NOWHERE. I thought maybe in Heritage Park bear the visitor's center and carousel would have been better -but the workmanship is really well-done. I cannot wait to see the sketch of the new state court house coming soon to Second Street! And a little afraid. . .if it is anything as bad as Government Center.

Hi Folks,

Hope I can shed a little light on two issues raised in this thread:

1.) The new court house:

There really isn't much available in the way of pictures however there is the state's website:

http://www.mass.gov/cam/wip/wp_jud_FallRiver.html

And a small rendering at the architect's website:

http://www.faainc.com/News_Main.htm

There was also this model used at an open meeting held this past August.




2.) The "Gates of the City" plaza:

It really does lead somewhere! At the rear of the property where it slopes down to the trees near elevated Broadway are railroad tracks. When rail service to Boston is re-established this will become "The Azores Station" one of two waterfront stations. The tracks run under Broadway and Central Street and north along Davol Street to where the main station will be located at the corner of Davol and Pearce Streets (roughly opposite Point Gloria).

As to being isolated from the Portuguese community, not at all! That section of Water Street was renamed Ponta Delgada Boulevard and has lighting and banners consistent with the plaza running south to the Portuguese Cultural District on Columbia Street (about a 5 minute walk). Plans call for some temporary cafes to be set up near the plaza and it will get plenty of use for musical and other cultural events. The neighboring Narrows Center for the Arts incorporated it into their arts festival this year.

For what its worth, that section of Crab Pond was filled in to alleviate a parking problem for waterfront events.

Thanks for the photos- can't say I much like the ultra-contemporary look of that courthouse- I had hoped for a more architecturally sympathetic building which would have blended more with neighboring buildings such as the old Academy building.

Oh, I am glad the Ponta Delgada area is a work still in progress-I will be happy to see rail to Boston!

Thanks for the info, GilC!
And thanks for the links.

I wonder how long it will take to construct that building- I'm picturing huge cranes and noise and new pipes underground.
Of course, it's always interesting to watch a building being built, so maybe House guests will enjoy that. I know I always stop to look at cranes and work such as is coming up there.

Maybe the House can become a source of food for the lawyers and judges coming to this part of town in future. A tearoom?

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mbhenty @ Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:08 pm wrote:

As far as my hint at improprierties regarding the filling of Crab Pond, it was said in frustration. I'm an enviromentalist and under no circumstances can I condone the filling in of wetlands or ponds to park cars, or any other use. So, I still stand by my remark that they should never had filled it in. Back in the 1800's Crab Pond was linked with the pond across the street and the entire area called Print Works Pond. Water Street, now know as Ponta Delgada Boulavard, was a small bridge that travesed the pond connecting the American Print Works complex with the south side. Just the other side of the small bridge was a large train station at the foot of Ferry and Broadway, just north of where Broadway comes together with Colombia street today.

Here's a map of the area in 1895. The black arrow on the right points to then 12 Ferry St. where Lizzie spent her first 12 years.

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Shelley @ Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:00 am wrote:The Ponta Delgada arch was just completed recently and dedicated to the many Portuguese who left their homeland to find work in the city of Fall River- many in the fishing and shipping industries. The city pier is still very active. This is a replica of a great arch back in the old country and has a piazza of granite bricks beneath it, and park benches overlooking the Taunton River - it is a lovely spot . The carving is magnificent.

For anyone who might be in the area today Dec. 17, there is a Portuguese Christmas celebration at the decorated plaza between 4 and 7 p.m.

http://www.ojornal.com/site/news.cfm?ne ... 3384&rfi=6

Hi, GilC welcome to the forum, thanks for the info, and the beautiful picture. I'm from Illinois, so no way I can make it. But there are others from around there who might.

mbhenty @ Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:15 pm wrote:

Thanks Harry, Great map. You can see the Ferry train station on the other end of the little bridge. (Land Pass)

That's great, I always wondered where Abraham's house (No.12 ? ) was located. Now I see. There are two huge 14 floor apartment buildings where No 12 stood in the 19th century.

The Fall River Iron Works building was one of my accounts when I was employed and I wandered its floors from end to end countless times.

On the map where it says "POND" is where the Portuguese Arch stands today. The greater part of that side of the pond was filled in. ( to park cars, 5 days out of the year---Fall River Celebrates and the fireworks).

Michael-

Do you have any idea why it was called "Crab Pond?" Was it fresh or salt water?

-1bigsteve (o:

The first time Stefani and I visited Fall River together - (in March 2003, I believe?), Bill and Len took us in the car to famous "Lizzie" sites, at night.
Len stopped the car in the middle of a parking lot-type area and Bill and he discussed on which side of the car the 12 Ferry Street house would have stood.

Unless "they" have built an apartment house there since we all made that video, then the original site is still an open area where fans who visit Fall River can still pause there and contemplate. The map may be giving the idea of a slight difference in locale...

I know I have been away from Fall River for 4 years now and as I get older I know my memory might be somewhat faulty but I was always under the impression that the old Ferry St. Borden homestead stood where or very near where the Milliken Apts. are now. I also am in agreement with mbhenty and am extremely appalled at finding out they filled in Crab Pond. I have such awesome memories of going over that bridge between the pond from when I was a child. I just thought it was the coolest thing and I always pictured that as a tiny microcosim of Fall River's past. A place where time stood still for 100 years. Filling in wetlands does seem to be a Fall River political trait. Kind of reminds me of the city incinerator fiasco but thats another story. But i also remember city hall falling in on our heads. I had just passed under it going home to Somerset when it came crashing down. What a difference a minute makes. I had just started the climb up Bragga bridge when I noticed a cloud of dust behind me and that there was no more traffic comming out from under Government Center.

Unless the houses on Ferry St. were renumbered, 12 Ferry St. would have been much closer to the waterfront. Borden Light Marina is 1 Ferry St., the Sewer Commission's Ferry St. pump station is at 10 Ferry St. near the waterfront. Kat, it appears that you were in the parking lot of Quaker Fabric (the old J&J Corrugated Box Co.) which would be right across the street from where a present day 12 Ferry St. would be.

In 1896 all addresses in Fall River were renumbered. No 12 Ferry St. became #483. (Per Rebello, page 28) It also says "... The Borden home would be on the site of Riverview Towers, a high rise building and parking lot."

He cites the source as the Registry of Deeds, Fall River, MA.

This 1895 map shows where (black arrow on right side) where #12 ferry would have been. There appears to be several schools off of Columbia St. Whether those schools existed in the 1860's and 1870's when Lizzie attended Elementary school is the question.

Yes...the Riverview Towers are the Milliken Apatments Highrise that I mentioned. That is where I always believed the #12 Ferry St. house to have been.

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sorry, duplicate post...

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The info on Lizzie attending the Morgan St. school is in Rebello, page 271, but the source is an interview with Mrs. Charles J. Holmes:

"Lizzie Borden: Her School, and Later Life, Noble Woman Though Retiring," Boston Herald, August 7, 1892: 6.

Mrs. Charles J. Holmes and unidentified friends of Lizzie's were interviewed by the Boston Herald. A partial listing of comments are listed below.
"As a child, she was of a very sensitive nature, inclined to be non-communicative with new acquaintances and this characteristic has tenaciously clung to her all through life, and has been erroneously interpreted. ...At the usual age, she was sent to the Morgan Street School, embracing primary and grammar grades. ..."

The principal of the N.B. Borden school, Horace A. Benson, lived at #84 Second Street in 1892. He roomed at Mrs. Burt's house. I verified that by checking the 1892 City Directory. He apparently had Lizzie as a student when he was a teacher. That's also in Rebello, page 271.

--Harry
viewtopic.php?t=2468&start=0

AS far as we know, Lizzie went to the Morgan Street School.
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[Edit here]: I added this quote (above) because there is another topic called "School Days" and I was getting confused between the two.

Harry, did you say that Benson taught at the Morgan School?