Streets and Sidewalks

[bobarth]

Got a couple of questions. Trying to order the landscaping on my little Lizzie house model.

Was Second street a cobblestone street in the 1890's? I know I read where New Bedford had cobblestone streets and was just wondering if Fall River would have had them also?

Also would their sidewalk have been similar to the way our sidewalks are now or would they have had different characteristics?

Any guess on how wide the road or sidewalk was back then? I suppose the street was big enough to turn around a buggy on since Dr. Handy turned his around?

Anybody have pictures of either for Second Street?

Thanks

[Shelley]

As far back as I can remember- and that is 1972, the house had a gray cobblestone driveway. That was dug up last year and blacktopped, but the cobbles were saved and are now used in the garden landscaping.

The road in most photos looked pretty wide and dirt of course. I can't seem to remember a sidewalk, there was a large tree right in front of the house, almost on the street. The Boston coach stopped right across the street in 1892 and I imagine Second Street was well-travelled and fairly wide by most standards of the time, due to so much traffic. Am checking my postcards and photos.

[Harry]

According to the drawing in Rebello, page 45, the house was 7 feet from the curb.

Shelley, Uncle John testified at the trial, p163:

"Q. Is Second street a paved street, macadam street or a mere dirt street at the part that passes Mr. Borden's house?
A. Why, I think that is macamadized there. I think it is. I know it is very hard."

I'm not at all sure what that would have meant in 1892. I remember reading something about the streets starting to be paved around then and I'll have to do a little digging to see if I can relocate it..

The sidewalk in front of the Chagnon house was concrete as testified to in the Preliminary and trial. The walk that led to the side door of the Borden house was also concrete.

[Shelley]

Hard to tell from this 1890-ish photo if the sidewalk is cobbles- it looks much smoother.
http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Galleries ... idence.jpg

[Harry]

I found a reference to Second St. It's by none other than the guru of Fall River history himself, Neilson Caplain. It appeared in one of his articles on Andrew's last walk in the October 1998 LBQ:

"... The old man's mind wandered. He thought about the street on which he had lived for twenty-seven years since moving from his father's house on Ferry Street. His mind's eye envisioned the changes to the street from a country lane, to rutted road, and finally, to a paved (or cobblestone) thoroughfare. He remembered that the street was once graced by stately homes and shaded gardens. Alas, for the changes that took place over the years! Stores, shops and no less than seven stables replaced home and garden near his home. ..."

Shelley, in the photo you posted I believe that is snow. It is also probably snow in this one:

[Shelley]

I never realized McAdam was so old a technique, nor did I know :" The deplorable conditions of the nations roads became a great public concern in the late nineteenth century with the invention of the bicycle and later the motor car. In the early 1890's bicycle clubs in the United States pushed hard for road improvements. These efforts brought about the "National League for Good Roads" in 1892. Continued dissatisfaction with the conditions of the nations roads resulted in the creation of the "Office of Road Inquiry" by Congress in 1893.

"Macadam consists basically of compacted layers of small stones cemented into a hard surface by means of stone dust and water (water-bound macadam). However, the main pavement surfaces in use today are bituminous/asphalt coverings and concrete.

The macadam method of road building uses a layer of well drained and compacted subsoil to support the load weight of the roadway, while the top layer acts as a wearing surface built only to shed water. Modern day macadam road construction is based on this practice and is used worldwide.

The top layer of a macadam road is mostly made of asphalt and rocks, now some builders use other ingredients to help deter road wear and add traction to the surface. Nowadays asphalt is made synthetically, but true asphalt in its natural state was originally found in only one place in the world, in a pitch lake on Trinidad Island. "

This is all from an article at this link http://curbstone.com/_macadam.htm


Looking over old post cards from 1903-19 it looks like most of the city had sidewalks and a combination of some hard-packed dirt, and most main streets macadamized. Good stuff- Harry. Boy, Uncle John was a fount of trivial info! They should have picked his brain more!

[Shelley]

You can see some of the cobbles in this photo to the right. Come to think of it, cobbles were in front of the house, I remember catching my heels on them. The current owners decided to just pull them up and concrete the sidewalk for safety reasons.
A few weeks ago they did win a victory when the gas company was made to remove the new meter from the front of the house foundation to the back, as LeeAnn pointed out it was an historical house. It was really an ugly meter so that was a good thing.

[Shelley]

Oh, and that Charles Trafton sign will be changed soon to read Andrew Borden-the sign has arrived but is not up yet.

[Harry]

This is one of my favorite photos. It shows the circus arriving on Bedford St. circa 1888. The street is cobblestone and the trolley tracks would have been for the horse drawn trolleys.

You can see a part of the post office building in the upper left hand corner.

I

[Harry]

You can see some of the cobbles in this photo to the right. Come to think of it, cobbles were in front of the house, I remember catching my heels on them. The current owners decided to just pull them up and concrete the sidewalk for safety reasons.
A few weeks ago they did win a victory when the gas company was made to remove the new meter from the front of the house foundation to the back, as LeeAnn pointed out it was an historical house. It was really an ugly meter so that was a good thing.

Good idea on the cobblestones. I almost slipped on them when I was there.

[bobarth]

You all are awesome as always.
Thank you so much.

[Kat]

You can see the tree in the street in this picture from the website:

[Kat]

Stones in the sidewalk.
(Didn't Christopher describe what those stones were called?)

[bobarth]

Kat WOW great catch, I have studied that photograph and never saw that tree in the street.
Is that a Maple tree in the street?

[Kat]

The road in most photos looked pretty wide and dirt of course. I can't seem to remember a sidewalk, there was a large tree right in front of the house, almost on the street. The Boston coach stopped right across the street in 1892 and I imagine Second Street was well-travelled and fairly wide by most standards of the time, due to so much traffic. Am checking my postcards and photos.

I could have sworn you said that a carriage could turn around on Second Street so I made a note and started looking. I don't find a case of that yet but I re-read your post and it doesn't say that.

Anyway- I also looked at Mark Chase because I don't recall the Boston Coach traveling up Second Street- or down- so again I am confused and added that to my looking.
Is it anywhere you can tell me where it is shown the Boston Coach was part of the traffic pattern on Second Street?
My impression was the barn was a holding area and feeding area for boarding horses.
Thanks!

Mark Chase - Hostler
Trial
1360
Q. Where is your place of business, Mr. Chase?
A. Right opposite Mr. Kelly's.

Q. On Second street?
A. On Second street.

Q. What is it?
A. Barn, New York & Boston Express barn.

Q. You have charge of it?
A. I do, yes, sir.

[bobarth]

Hey Kat,

That was me that said he turned his carriage around. I just checked his testimony and he turned in his carriage, which I am assuming is he turned his head back to look. My mistake.

[Kat]

Ooops. Sorry! Yes that was Dr. Handy who turned to look. I meant to mention I checked him too. (Trial 1370).
Thanks!

As for what kind of tree that is, I don't know.

[Shelley]

Len told me the Boston Coach stopped across the street. We were amused about that because up until about 2 weeks ago, the bus coach from Boston stopped there. I believe in Len's book there is a map of what was on Second Street near the back. It may have been called a depot or something, but apparently it was some sort of transportation stop. I will trot off to look it up.

[Kat]

Thanks.
I see on page 562 it's designated as "N.Y./Boston Express, carriage house; Office in Pocasset Block"

Chase calls it a barn.
I think there is someone else in testimony, maybe Gardner, to check?

Edit here: Trial, 1408- says Gardner's stable is up near Rodman and Second so that doesn't help.

So I picture this *barn* or *carriage house* as a place to house the horses- maybe some equiptment like carriages? But not as a place where passengers get on or off- not a *stop* on the line per se.

Anybody else know more?

[Kat]

The Evening Standard describes Mark Chase as an "express driver":
"Thursday, November 17, 1892 Page 1

NEW WITNESSES

Before the Grand Jury in the
Borden Case...."

[Kat]

There's this, in the 1892 City Directory.
(I checked for "carriages" and "coaches" but did not get anywhere)

[snokkums]

Got a couple of questions. Trying to order the landscaping on my little Lizzie house model.

Was Second street a cobblestone street in the 1890's? I know I read where New Bedford had cobblestone streets and was just wondering if Fall River would have had them also?

Also would their sidewalk have been similar to the way our sidewalks are now or would they have had different characteristics?

Any guess on how wide the road or sidewalk was back then? I suppose the street was big enough to turn around a buggy on since Dr. Handy turned his around?

Anybody have pictures of either for Second Street?

Thanks

BoBarth-
When you finish the house, would you post a picture of it? I would like to see it.

[Shelley]

#99 Second was the NY-Boston Express -yes, carriage house is correct. Naturally one team of horses could not have pulled all the way from Boston to New York and no doubt there were many stops in other towns between. Locals for NY and Boston got their tickets on Pocasset Street, then got aboard at the Express stop. I would imagine a fresh team for the next leg of the journey was to be found at #99. Either they hitched a fresh team (and actually I think an express coach took a coach and four- or baggage was transferred to another coach and team . It is something for more research. I have done some horsecart driving myself in younger days, and wear and tear on coaches long-distance was something to consider. I would bet baggage was transfered and another coach was used for the next portion of the journey to NY. In any event- I would bet there was plenty of dust flying around on Second Street with the Express and the liveries.

I know trolley barns were usually the end of the line or a leg of a long journey, and the car was stored for the night there.

[bobarth]

[

BoBarth-
When you finish the house, would you post a picture of it? I would like to see it.[/quote]

I thought you would never ask.

I will post a picture or two, I tried a couple of times and could not get it to work, but will try again. I have the cellar and 2 stories done. Working on the attic windows and the roofing, where I have been stuck at.

[Kat]

There's probably a time-table for this Express somewhere and that would show the stations and stops.

They might carry passengers and freight, or just freight.

I agree there was traffic on Second Street, but a Post stop with passengers would be significant. We would want to know this because of potential witnesses. Also, if a street local was involved in the killings, they could use the (estimated) timing of a coach route stop in their plan, I'd think. That's why I am so interested in understanding this.

[Shelley]

I agree- it would be significant. I asked Len Rebello again today and he said the ticket agent was on Pocasset Street but the coach was caught at 99 for NY or Boston. I don't know what times of day or how many coaches left the premises though. Yes, I think it is fascinating too- especially if people were standing around waiting for the departure at either 9 or 11 a.m. A killer would most assuredly want to know the times if he/she had any common sense not only for avoiding being seen, but perhaps to time a getaway.

The Old Post Road is still in existence by that name in Rhode Island- which was the main thoroughfare for the express coaches which often carried the mails from city to city.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Post_Road

[Shelley]

The express times are mentioned in some of these newspapers, and tell arrivals in Fall River.
http://www.google.com/archivesearch?q=F ... hdate=1892

[Kat]

Thanks.
How does Len know that about catching the coach at 99, did he say?

I tried a Fitchburg link but it did not want me in there.Thanks for trying that, tho.
Did it give a location, other than generic *Fall River?*

[Kat]

Im still looking.
I can't find Mark Chase in the 1892 City Directory under either spelling (Chase or Chace).
BTW: In Knowlton Papers it states he is a "hostler at the New York and Boston Despatch Company, located a short distance from the Andrew J. Borden residence."
Here is their Ad. It doesn't give the address on Second Street and I was informed it couldn't be found in the Directory on Second Street.
(I'm not saying it wasn't there- only that it doesn't appear to be in the 1892 City Directory.)

[Shelley]

Oh okay- I see- Pocasset BLOCk- not street- that clears some of it up- that is the ticketing agent. It looks like four different companies in that ad above (GREAT ad!). The horse and cart shown is not the passenger long-distance coach -that one looks purely freight. The "valuables and money"transported by messangers on fast trains looks like another service. Very interesting.

I see Davenport and Mason and wonder if that was Phebe Davenport Borden's relative?

I would imagine the police looked into the steamboat arivals and departures and hopefully quizzed the liveries about strange-looking people coming and going that morning. It would be fairly easy to ascertain the Fall River Line boats at the pier on the 4th of August morning.

[Shelley]

I guess I need to join newspaperarchive.com before we can see the rest of the article Kat! They always find a way to make a buck! It does have the largest online newspaper accessibility so I bet it is worth the money. I am wondering how Lizzie got up to Boston to catch her Cunarder back in 1890- by the express coach or by the train. I would rather take the train- so much cleaner and faster.

I think this is fodder for some more research. That ad above seems to be promoting services and freight shipping. I would love to know about people transport and if that would be a different company altogether.

A Hostler, also spelled phonetically ostler, is a stableman, i.e. employed in a stable to take care of horses. I had to look it up!

[Kat]

Any more information would be appreciated. THanks.
I might be able to get at the Fitchburg paper another way if it is worth it?

Just thinking about it, I imagine a passenger coach as having a depot on Main, or near a RR station- somewhere convenient to catch other conveyances to go farther, like near a trolley line.

This place in the Ad does look like a freight line.
Also, I'm thinking if an employee carried registered mail, or valuable payrolls or any kind of sensitive document or money, they would need to be bonded and insured and very well-regarded by the Express Company, and they might not travel publically, yes?

[Shelley]

Yes. I guess that part about "reliable messangers" would indicate they only hired people of impeccable reputation to be entrusted as couriers. I have been unable to shed any further light on #99 by asking people who might know more.

If Mr. Chace was sitting under the tree admiring the snappy carriage and handsome horse in front of the Borden's house that day abouty 9:30 ish, clearly nothing much was going on at the dispatch express. Sounds like he might have been in charge of hitching up fresh horses, and taking care of the other horses in the stable. I bet Uncle John and Chace could have chittychatted plenty about the horses and maybe Chace even knew John.

Looking at all the commercial storefronts, liveries, etc. on Second Street, it was a cool customer who would walk in off the street to murder the Bordens on a weekday morning, especially between 9-11 a.m. when the women were shopping for lunch. And I expect plenty of women (like Mrs. Kelly and Mrs. Churchill) were busy coming in and out too doing the usual weekday errands to the post office and such. There seemed to be a cast of thousands just living with old Addie Churchill. I always wondered why the killer did not just wait until Abby and Andrew were at the farm- more isolated- with plenty of sharp tools around!

[Shelley]

Oh newspaperarchive.com will get you many other papers-for about 8 dollars a month, yes, it is worth it. My subscription had unfortunatley expired, but I have used it for years finding out about Titanic people. It has excellent word search tools and literally millions of pages of newspapers from all over the country. And you can save and print the papers on your machine in Adobe pdf format.

You get a free week trial too. http://newspaperarchive.com/

[RayS]

I found a reference to Second St. It's by none other than the guru of Fall River history himself, Neilson Caplain. It appeared in one of his articles on Andrew's last walk in the October 1998 LBQ:

"... The old man's mind wandered. He thought about the street on which he had lived for twenty-seven years since moving from his father's house on Ferry Street. His mind's eye envisioned the changes to the street from a country lane, to rutted road, and finally, to a paved (or cobblestone) thoroughfare. He remembered that the street was once graced by stately homes and shaded gardens. Alas, for the changes that took place over the years! Stores, shops and no less than seven stables replaced home and garden near his home. ..."

Shelley, in the photo you posted I believe that is snow. It is also probably snow in this one:

It looks like ruts in the road near the sidwalk. The wooden planks are over the gutter.
The fallen leaves suggest late Octobe, but residents of FR would know.
Dirt roads would be ground into dust that would blow away, eventually lowering the roadway, The Sunken Road at the Battle of ANtietam?

[bobarth]

Any idea what color the Bordens picket fence was?
Best guess's are good too!!!!
Also the base that the fence is resting on is that concrete or timbers or something else?
And are climbing rosebushes in bloom in Fall River in August?
Would the road be more dirt color or more a gray color?
My landscape supplies came in and I am hyped!!!!!

[Kat]

Help! Bobbie needs info please?

My only suggestion is to look closely at the photos at the website- but I'm sure you've already done that!

I think we had a topic where we discussed the fence, gates, and driveway, and the hatch-hole on the roof- somewhere around here!

[Shelley]

Being as thrifty as Andrew was, I would bet it was the lighter drab color of the house. Why buy a third can of paint?

[bobarth]

Going through the testimony, I found that the same painter who painted the house had also painted the fence and all the trim along with the house. Thanks I bet you are right, Andrew probably would not want to buy another can. I also found in a newspaper that the RED roses were in bloom. Thank goodness, I can now have a little color in the diorama.

[Shelley]

There was also wisteria so add some purple to your palette!

[bobarth]

Was the wisteria just around the front door or was it in other places too?

[Harry]

It looks like ruts in the road near the sidwalk. The wooden planks are over the gutter.
The fallen leaves suggest late Octobe, but residents of FR would know.
Dirt roads would be ground into dust that would blow away, eventually lowering the roadway, The Sunken Road at the Battle of ANtietam?

NO, it's snow on the ground.

[Harry]

Any idea what color the Bordens picket fence was?
Best guess's are good too!!!!
Also the base that the fence is resting on is that concrete or timbers or something else?
And are climbing rosebushes in bloom in Fall River in August?
Would the road be more dirt color or more a gray color?
My landscape supplies came in and I am hyped!!!!!

Sometimes it looks like concrete, sometimes timbers. I magnified the fence and street for a better look. I'm leaning toward timbers. The road looks kind of rough, more dirt than macadam.

[Yooper]

Are there uprights at the edge of the sidewalk or butt joints? Either one might suggest timbers. Concrete would probably be a continuous shape. I see there was no apron at the end of the driveway.

[bobarth]

Uprights, Butt joints, oh my, have not a clew

Harry that magnified picture was just what I needed. Was up until 6AM and got the street and sidewalk done and the painting has begun on the fence and timbers. Also thanks to Shelley for answering about a zillion questions and going out in 6 degree weather to check on a foundation question.

Not sure I got the street right. Check it out

[Shelley]

Yes, I froze my nuggies off peering outside last night , and at that section of fence in the old photo which goes across the front of the house and is higher than the drop from the gate toward's Churchill's house. The foundation is granite and is very high up out of the ground and I think what we are seeing under that high section of fence across the front may be the foundation granite blocks, at an angle which might make it look as if the fence was touching or resting on top? If not, I would root for railroad ties acting as a retaining wall.

[bobarth]

I did paint it timber color but can convert it back to granite very easily. It looks so drab, I thought a new color might spruce it up. Woo Hoo a different shade of brown. I keep going back and forth between granite and railroad tie too. Those indentations on the granite/railroad tie just right of the side gate may be the key to figuring it out. Maybe? Seems like everything surrounding Lizzie has a degree of difficulty in figuring out just what was what!!!

[bobarth]

Turned out like this and I am not sure I like the timber, shoot knew I should have done it in granite.

[william]

Bobbie:

If you're going for realism, don't forget the broken picket in the fence!

[william]

Bobbie:

If you're going for realism, don't forget the broken picket in the fence!