Lizzie Borden Society Forum

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OH! We've been there, haven't we? It is such a cool place!

It is a charming little town. The last first class passenger of Titanic, Marjorie Newell Robb, lived there and I went to call on her in her old Cape Cod house many times. I sure hope this was not the house which was knocked down. Mrs. Robb died in Adams House on Highland Avenue in Fall River at the age of 103. I was her travel companion until she was 101- she loved Westport Point and hated to leave her home. Her son was curator of the Fall River Marine Museum for a long time. This is sad news.

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Well, I wrote a scathing letter to the editor of the Herald- let's see if they will publish it! It is signed "An Astonished and Dismayed Visitor to Your City". Soon I may have no more Painted Ladies to put on my blog- it will be "Tawdry Massage Parlors and Disreputable Parking Lots". Sad.
And what happened to the Historic Highlands sign???

Here's the letter
Although I am a resident of Connecticut, I am a frequent visitor to your city and enjoy the waterfront and other local attractions of the area. Recently I was showing visiting friends some of the notable architecture of the Historic Highlands area in the north end of the city and was shocked to find that some sort of commercial enterprise has moved into the neighborhood where historic and significant residences of merit are located, namely on French Street. Maplecroft is always a home on the list of places I like to show visitors, and this commercial venture, which appears to be some sort of massage and personal hygiene product vendors is located diagonally across the street from it. I see no other like-type storefronts in this area and fervently hope this is not a trend in the making.

If this is a therapeutic massage business, it belongs in the commercial or hospital and medical services area of the city to be sure- not in an historic residential section. I can only conclude that this business has crept in unbeknownst to the city planners, zoning and variance authorities, and others at Government Center because surely the introduction of such an incongruous establishment in a residential and historic neighborhood would be opening the door to a blight of unseemly and unsightly storefronts. For a city which prides itself on its history and historic buildings, the spread of such commercial and retail ventures needs to be discouraged in inappropriate residential areas of the city where historically none have existed before. Nip this in the bud before it becomes an epidemic!

An Astonished and Dismayed Visitor to Your City

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That's really too bad, it's quite a charming little house, and looked like it was taken care of. Will he get away with tearing it down now? For being 202 years old you sure couldn't tell......your quite right he is a jerk! They should make him completely redo it the way it was when he bought it. Then run him out of town on a rail!

But use one of Tabor's irons on him first - the white hot variety!

What beautiful shots. Thanks, made me miss New England.

~Bob

Those are such beautiful pictures! I really like that place.Thank you for going there again.

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It's really like a post card. And the closest I've seen to Nantucket, ever.

Yes, thank you Mbhenty for those beautiful pictures. You took the words right out of my mouth Bobbypoz and I couldn't agree with you more. Those pictures made me so homesick for New England! The place were I was born, raised, and will spend all eternity when my time comes. I live in West Texas now and I am continuosly trying to describe New England to my new friends here so when I saw these beautiful pictures you posted here Mbhenty I just had to show my friends today that stopped over and there reaction was one of awe and disbelief that I would have moved away from such a beautiful and idealic setting for any reason. I firmly believe there is beauty to be found anywhere but for me that old New England charm and beauty will be ALWAYS what I call home. I always read the Fall River Herald on line and when I read that article about him tearing down the house to just a shell I think my heart must have fell right to the floor. I am pleased that they stopped him but the damage has been done and can never be undone.

Thank you so much for the pictures. Your right the guy is crazy. That was such a beautiful house. These people have no respect for the past what so ever. They should move to the desert and leave the beautiful houses to the people who would take care of them. In my hometown of Webster, MA they had 4 repeat 4 Samuel Slater homes. One was torn down to expand a parking lot!!!! Only one is left & in such a bad way I don't think it could ever be restored.

MB, any more news on the house and what's to be done about it?

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Thanks MB! Hope they make him put it back to the way it was!!

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I hate hearing about stuff like this. I had been wondering if they would force them to protect it during the winter.

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http://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizzie/





Charlton Memorial Hospital has been on the move again demolishing historical property for the sake of "parking."

Just recently they tore down an old 3 story brick building, which was once a Rope factory and bordered Hillside Street at number 38. (not sure why there's a big "33" written on the side of the building?)

Now, it has been reported that they have purchased 18 Hillside street for 283,000 dollars, the 2 1/2 decker building where ALICE RUSSELL use to reside. Between Number 18 and the mill they demolished stands another 3 decker number 28. You can see it in the photo below with white siding. It was also purchased for almost 200,000 dollars more than the Russell place and almost 2 months previous.

If I was the owners of the Alice Russell place I would have waited them out and asked for much more. The white house at number 28 sold for commercial rate, while the Russell place sold for residential rate.

Now understand, these two properties are not historically significant from an historical point of view, but they are historical by virtual age and architecture. (the mill itself was of historical significance)

It will be interesting to see what the hospital does with these two buildings. (?) Will they move them? Will Charlton do the right thing?

DON'T BET ON IT.............THIS IS FALL RIVER. Such is the case when the ignorant and the powerful live side by side.

If you go to Stefani's post above and click on:

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizzie/

You will see Maplecorft in the snow.

Maplecorft was really designed to be built on a corner lot. If you look at the second photo of Maplecroft on MONDO above you can envision it sitting on a corner and waliking around the front and west side of it. Even in its present condition it would look much more striking and grand.

When veiwing Maplecroft from a distnace the best side is the west side or the south/west front corner as displayed in the second photo on MONDO.

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizzie/

We are having a small snow storm here in New England.

French Street is an area with premium street parking. One must walk a block or two at times to find parking on the street. This during an ordinary day, bring on a snow storm and a parking ban along one whole side of the street and the problem immediately doubles.



The owner of Maplecroft, nice guy he is, left his home and placed two barrels in the street, a public street, so no one would park in the spot which he saved for his car.

What sort of person does this?

The man who has a huge yard, with a large driveway, enough to fit 8 to 10 cars or more. Now, not only does he park on the street, as he does all the time, he blocks off a spot on a public road with trash 2 barrels so no one can parks there.

Some have expressed that this is a "nice guy".........., you best evaluate your opinion.

If this is not a self seeking, selfish and uncaring person, I don't know who is.

There's a place in the afterlife for people like him.

Yes: Here we go again.

As you all well know, I have been on this site over and over and over and over again about Fall River demolishing its past. There is not stopping it.

Slated for September demolition is St. Louis Church. A wonderful brick building. When this church was built Lizzie Borden was a happy 25 year old. When the Bordens were killed this building had been standing for 7 years.

The same old excuse is being used about how much it will cost to repair, how much it will cost to upkeep. Bulls--t.

I'm sure they searched the most expensive contractors to prove the point that the building is not worth saving. These A-holes piss me off. Mindless characters with greenbacks for a heart and chicken feed for brains. They love to demolish old buildings, and parade themselves proudly in the news paper.

Moronic stupidity, exemplified by greedy, rapacious individuals with lunacy glorified and total disregard for history, culture, heritage etc.

CAN YOU TELL I'M ANGRY.

This wonderful building is located just 3/4 miles from 92 Second. If you stand on the steps of St Anne"s Shrine on South Main street, you can see St Louis Church just off in the distance a block away to the right, bordering South Park. (Kennedy Park)

http://www.heraldnews.com/homepage/x804 ... chs-rubble

There was a big article in yesterday's paper about turning this building into a museum. Did you see this?

Shelley, the link to the article is in mbhenty's post above.

At first you think they are going to save the structure with the museum. But alas that is not to be.

Here is a quote from that article:

"Fernando Garcia, chairman of the Holy Ghost Museum Foundation, said plans for the museum started more than eight years ago and initially included retrofitting the center into the former church, which was built in 1885 and closed in 2000. But Garcia said because of several structural deficiencies discovered over the years, the structure would prove too expensive to maintain and bring up to modern building codes.

The building’s demolition is scheduled to begin on Sept. 8, Garcia said."

Yes: I knew that: I posted the Herald News article in my post.

But NO, they are not turning the church into a museum.

You would think that would be an excellent idea. Turning a museum class building, that is, a building that is in-itself a museum piece, into a Portuguese museum for a group of emigrants and sons/daughters of emigrants who's culture is ingrained and rooted in religion. What better building to use?

But no............

Once again they have made their fallacious stand that the building is to expensive to repair and are going to TEAR IT DOWN.

I don't doubt that the cost may be more. But that is what it cost to save a precious, irreplaceable 19 century building, one with tons of history, history in the virtual structure itself and the history behind its heritage and use as a religious congregation.

We must be careful not to report this incorrectly. THEY ARE NOT TURNING THIS CHURCH, BUILDING INTO A MUSEUM. They are KNOCKING IT DOWN.

and will probably place up a new cheap cement block or stucco building.




Restoration always cost more, but with frugal planing it does not need to.

Yes: We must be careful how we report this...........

THEY ARE NOT TURNING THIS CHURCH BUILDING INTO A MUSEUM. THEY ARE DEMOLISHING THIS WONDERFUL BUILDING.

After they knock it down they will probably construct a new cement, concrete, stucco ugly building similar to the new court house in front of 92.

I have been in that church , St Louis De France many many times. When I would sleep over weekends at my cousins house who lived on Beacon St. that is the church we would go to. If this keeps up when I finaly do make it back home to Fall River there won't be anything left for me to recognize anymore. I know its a part of getting older that things must change...but I somehow feel I am losing my identity slowly........piece by piece, and it's sad.

I found out some information regarding this demolition. The Catholic Church will not allow one if their churches to be used for any other function other than a Catholic Church. They want it torn down as it is no longer used. They do not want to sell the building as is or allow the museum to be in it. It is the Church that is behind the demolition. It isn't about the cost of the rehab.

And now, I must retract my earlier statement about the Church. After doing some research, I see that there are many instances where former Catholic churches are converted to other purposes, even in Fall River.

Makes me remember not to believe everything you hear, even if the info comes from someone who you would think would know what they are talking about.

So as to why they are so eager to tear down St. Louis? Now your guess is as good as mine. You can always get a contractor who will say that it costs more to rehab than to rebuild from scratch, but demo costs a ton of money, so I cannot figure this one out.

Yes, OK, to add a little more info to this issue.

The reason Stefani rectified her earlier statement and made a correction is because I called her to set the record straight.

The person she got her information from should know better, he prides himself in being involved in city politics............but consider the source. He's from (f)all (r)iver. If he had any concern, he would have searched out the truth, but sadly he is part of the "Treatment Plant" that is fall river.

IT IS NOT TRUE THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TAKES THE STANCE THAT IF YOU PURCHASE A CHURCH YOU MUST KNOCK IT DOWN. They are not stupid.

Below you will find a CATHOLIC CHURCH, St Rock's on Pine Street in fall river, which was turned into an apartment building. Like you probably hear a million times. I have worked in this building.

Yes, you can look at it this way.

Why would these people in fall river want to demolish such a beautiful building?

This is why..........

Take a cave man. Not the ones from Geico. A real cave man. One who's language is limited to UGH!

Now give this Neanderthal a choice between a shinny new half dollar, and a 1000 dollar bill. Which one do you think he will choose.

There you have it.

In fall river they want the "new shinny half dollar."

As you can see below, they have started clearing the brush to build the new museum.

Passionate..............arin't I.

I'm with you MB. I am sick and tired of them tearing down every beutiful old building in Fall River and building concrete blocks of crap that are ugly beyond belief.

Work continues on Lizzie's old church and the now called Abby Grill......BUT:

http://fall-river.wickedlocal.com/news/ ... bbey-grill

I really don't know much about this church. Are they just restoring this to become a restaurant? This is probably the one building I don't really remember seeing in Fall River. What street is this on?

Yes JQEA83YQL (Thats how one spells when one has his fingers over the wrong keys)

Yes. Nadzieja.

The Central Congressional Church is on Rock Street about 10 blocks south from Maplecroft and three blocks away from the Fall River Historical Society. Recently it was a culinary college. That went out of business. Now someone has purchased the property and is spending some serious money putting it back together. It was called the Abbey Grill and I think that is what it will be called again. Of course, when you read about Lizzie and her church, this was the place. Not to be confused with the First Congressional Church, Andrew Borden's church, which was located two blocks west on North Main and Elm, or the 'newer' First Congressional Church which sits 3 blocks north of the Central Congressional Church today. Phew!





http://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizz ... -makeover/

It looks like they are doing a nice job on the renovation. That would be great if it was open to the public as a restaurant.
One question, I thought Lizzie gave up all connection to churches after her acquittal because of the way she was treated. Is there any information about her ever going back to any congregation?

Yes, Nadzieja:

There are some records in the way of conversation with some of Lizzie's contemporaries. Though Lizzie was shun after the trail she continued to attend church...at least for a while. How long I couldn't tell. Influential church goers had assigned pews for which they paid a monthly fee—as did Lizzie. After the trial it was reported that the pews around Lizzie were abandoned and she sat by herself with empty pews all around her. How long this went on for we don't know. But she soon stopped attending church. But it is believed, and one would need to check church records for this, that Lizzie continued to pay her pew dues, though she stopped attending service.

I find this very aggravating that these so called "good" people would do this. I know it was society at the time, but it just floors me that these people would have absolutely no compassion for everything she went through. I know I'm looking at it as an outsider, but weren't these people also the ones who were supporting her through the trial?

Maybe Lizzie could have bought other pews further away from hers so everyone would have to sit close by her. That would show them

Actually I find that kind of funny. However I can see why she didn't want to go back.

There are two settings to Lizzie and her church.

One is her lack of attendance and the other her desire to worship.

After leaving church one is left to wonder whether she abandoned religious fervor just like the church's patrons abandoned her.

History does not give us a clue.

Now being from fall river, and if she was a catholic girl, we could have been given some sort of indication, such as the one below.

Growing up I witnessed these all over fall river. You don't see them much. But they still exist. Some have called it "Our Lady of the Bath Tub." Most of these were erected by the Portuguese community. I have one in my yard, minus the tub. Perhaps we should have one placed at Maplecorft. Confuse the dickens out of the Congregationalists.

They are all over my home town along with statues of St. Joseph and St. Anthony.