This is pretty cool, but pricey

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:23 pm

http://www.halloweentownstore.com/page/HS/PROD/BOR13

I think this is rather well done. I wish it was less expensive, but I think the workmanship is marvelous.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:34 pm

I like it... "plush, but not overly ostentatious", as the late Norm Nathan* used to say.

* http://www.geocities.com/radiosteve2000/normhome.html
(for those who wonder who the devil Norm Nathan was.)

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:41 am

Lizzie looks mad, and determined!

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:07 am

Here lies the body of Lizzie B.,
In '60 was she born.
For three-score years and seven was she
At times loved, cherished, and scorned.

Edisto · Post by **Edisto** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:35 pm

The portrait, while well done, hardly flatters Lizzie. At first I thought, "I wouldn't dare to put this out in my yard for Halloween, because somebody might steal it." Then I noticed the weight (30 lbs.) and figured it would take somebody fairly muscular to carry it off (or a group of kids working together). Then I noticed the footnote saying that it actually weighs less than five pounds. Back to my original caution! I don't think many people will want to pay that much for a Halloween docoration, but what do I know?

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:37 am

She does look mad. and the picture is not alll that flatterning, either.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

I bought it. On the one I have Lizzie's eyes are open. The only thing that disapoints me is that it is made of styrafoam. From the wording of it I thought that it was made of something stronger. I am afraid to display it because I don't want it to get broken.

It made me think of metal work in high school when we used to make styrafoam moulds, cover them in sand and pour in lmelted aluminum. The styrafoam would dissolve and you would have an aluminum copy. I wouldn't try that with this of course. I remember many of the moulds had trouble if there were fine details on them. The fine details wouldn't turn out that good. Its too bad I couldn't spray this thing with some kind of protectant to harden it.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:02 am

This isn't by that other Styrofoam Lizzie grave marker maker is it?

That one, I heard, was disappointingly lightweight as well.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:25 am

It's the same one that Stefani has shown on the top of this page. There was another cheaper one available from a different seller, it didn't show a picture of Lizzie like this one does. It just had the name and the dates. It also stated that it was made of light weight styrafoam. At least it wasn't misleading.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:06 am

There was, in the past, a rather dumb one of styrofoam, which was a replica of Lizzie's gravestone. Don't know if you remember that one.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:59 am

No, I never seen that one. Although when I first seen the title for this one on ebay, I thought that mabe that that's what it was, a copy of Lizzie's actual gravestone, but this one is more elaborate. It's a nice design but you would think that when making something like that they would make it out of a better material. I mean it's just common sense.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:19 am

Fargo,

These are photos of Lizzie's headstone and the Borden family plot marker. (Please ignore the blonde...she just had to have her picture taken right then and there.)

Tracy...

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:49 pm

As I recall, in Lizzie's will she asked to be buried at the foot of her father. Yet, when I went to her grave site last August it looked to me like her tombstone is above Andrew's.

One other thing about where Lizzie is buried. I always wonder what she would think if she knew there are now tiny little black foot prints that guide people to where she's buried?

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:05 pm

I believe she is buried at his feet. I used an arrow to indicate the direction from Andrew's head (Well, where it should be...) to his feet.

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:13 pm

Oh thanks Tracy! I never could figure that out.

BTW: Dwilly: Was that Lizzie's Will, or her Burial Instructions to which you refer?

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:36 pm

I always thought that headstones were placed at the top of the grave by the persons head with the body lying from head to foot going away from the headstone. So when looking at Lizzes's marker for example you look at the marker and then think of the body being buried below the marker. If that is the case then Andrew and all of the others in the same row would be below their markers on the
part where the grass is worn off quite a bit. That is unless they placed the markers different in one of the rows, or if the markers were all placed at the bottom of the graves by the feet of the occupants.

I seen four graves in a different cemetary where by my interpretation of the markers, all four people were buried feet to feet.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:51 pm

OK...maybe I am wrong. It could happen. I have never heard that Lizzie's burial instructions, about being placed at Andrew's feet, were not followed. Maybe someone else can verify/correct what I have 'said' ?

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:58 pm

Does this help?

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:40 pm

Thank you for the picture but what I think is causing some confusion is the direction Andrew's headstone is going. If I remember correctly, Andrew's and Lizzie's headstones are going in the same direction. I also thought that when you were buried that put the headstone where the top of your head would be and the headstone would have your name reading across but if Lizzie is at Andrew's feet than why is his headstone upside down?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:30 pm

...I also thought that when you were buried that put the headstone where the top of your head would be and the headstone would have your name reading across..."

--DWilly

I'm not buried yet and I don't think I ever will be.
I plan on being cremated.

Anyway, I can never figure out the placement in the Borden plots.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:22 pm

I don't know if this helps any, but, those markers with the Borden's first names on them may not be headstones, but, footstones instead.

Footstone-a flat, slab-like grave marker placed at the foot end of a grave. Footstones, are used only in conjunction with headstones and are considerably smaller and less ornate, often bearing only the initials as inscriptions.

I guess the big Borden grave marker with the family's full names and dates on it could be considered a headstone and the smaller ones with just the first names could be footstones?

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:34 pm

Footstones...I hadn't thought of that. Hmmm. If that's the case, then I am SO 100% wrong. Who can we check with to know for sure ?

Tracy...

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:12 am

I would guess that the cemetary would have some kind of record as to where the graves actually are. Prof Starrs would probably know as he used ground penetrating radar at the gravesite. Prof Starrs may have said or written something that might indicate the arrangement of the Borden plot.

If the markers are footstones and not headstones then most people visiting the gravesite have probably believed that the bodies lie differently than they really do.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:06 pm

Again...I may be wrong, but if Lizzie's burial instructions had not been followed, wouldn't we have some knowledge of that happening (or NOT happening in this case) ?

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:11 pm

Well, these grave markers are not flat or slab-like.
They look like a real grave-marker, only short, as if they were mostly buried. (Stef noticed that which we thought was interesting)... As if only the rounded top was showing.

I would think they were regular stones placed at the head- I don't think the Bordens were unconventional. However, it would depend on the plot size and the layout, maybe, as to whether they could all be buried in the *normal* pattern, maybe?

I bet Edisto could figure this out!

nbcatlover · Post by **nbcatlover** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:57 pm

Did I mention that I know somebody who has 100+ year old ashes of a cremated relative sitting on a self in a broom closet next to the Pledge?

If you get cremated, leave instructions on what to do with the dust--it stresses the remaining friends and relatives if you don't tell them.

Someone else I know mixed her father's ashes with potting soil figuring he would be creating new growth--all the plants planted in that batch of soil died!

I like what a lot of the sea-farers did. They have the memorial markers of the circumstances of the deaths. There are family markers in the Rural Cemetery commemorating someone's passing and the marker states right on them that they are buried in Portsmouth.

Personally, I think everyone should have a monument. You know, one with an inscription like

"She was sick for a real long time and was as wrinkled as a prune, but she died happy. She spent it all before she went."

Too bad the Bordens' didn't go for the markers that were so popular at the turn of the century--the ones with the person's photograph on the stone. It's amazing to look at the ones that survive and SEE the person.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:08 pm

Kashesan · Post by **Kashesan** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:49 am

Looks like Ernest Borgnine