Original Fall River Tragedy on eBay

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:27 pm

Do you all think this is one that Lizzie missed???

Item number: 7014749329

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:28 pm

Yep, that sure is ERIC:

The spine has been replaced. But that looks like a Edwin Porter 1893 copy. Not an expert Job, in replacing the spine, a better job could have been done with matching binding color. A good bookbinder and conservator can work miracles. Would want to collate the pages with the seller and a 1985 Flynn copy to make sure its all there before bidding. Though that is the second one I have seen listed on ebay this year.

Never-the-less a scarce book.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:55 pm

There were ongoing counts of the original Porter in the old LBQ.
I think there were about 42 documented by the end of the LBQ, c. 2002.
Since them, I believe more have been added to the count.

Apparently it was sold by subscription: which I understand means you buy the book and then they make it for you. So Lizzie couldn't very well buy out unmade books.

william · Post by **william** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:35 am

Recent esimates indicate approximately 100 copies are in circulation. Half
of that number have been documented.

Several individuals have copies, but do not wish to make this information public. With prices in the 300-1500 dollar range this is understandable. No one wants to be burgled.

The rumor that Lizzie acquired a number of copies and destroyed them, is more factoid than fact.

I personally believe that Lizzie surreptitiously acquired a copy of the book, and then dumped it into the garbage after reading - How could she resist a book about HER!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:49 am

I Agree!!
And thanks for the update, William!!

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:05 pm

If anyone is interested:

The Edwin Porter, "The Fall River Tragedy" 1893 that was for sale on Ebay (7014749329) at a reserve, with a bidding starting at 200 dollars, did NOT sell. (For the record bidding, this time around, ended tonight.)

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:05 am

I think that might be because of the rebinding. I would rather stick it out for an original binding. Plus, I think it was a mistake to start the bidding out so high. In my experience, really rare items sell for a great deal, but only with lots of interest. High reserves don't command a lot of interest. People want to believe they might get something for just a little money.

Ebay works by the last minute bidder who is in a bidding frenzy and can't stop increasing their offer because they really want something. Starting so high is not very smart, unless you really didn't want to sell it in the first place.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:42 am

Right you are Stefani:

The rebinding hurt that sale on the Porter book, and I would dare guess that His reserve was probably over 350. I'm sure you will see it again. It's not an ugly job, but completely changes the appearance of the spine compared to the original. To a true-blue collector, and those are the ones that pay the big bucks, he/she would not be happy with it. And a book in it's original condition always commands more.

Let me give you a good example:

A couple of weeks ago there was a two vol. set of Nansen's "Farthest North," 2nd edition. We are talking about a much ornate binding. Very Victorian binding. But it was a bad copy, not much better than "Fair to Good" condition, with much wear. It sold for around 87 dollars. Now, another copy just sold this week in fine condition, (I was watching it, because I have a copy in same condition) for 270.00 dollars, over 3 times as much. (Item # 7013423404)

Why..................? Condition. When it comes to a rare book, condition is everything.

I am one of those "ambush" bidders. I only bid once, and I do so in the last 10 seconds of the bidding, and hope mine is the highest bid. I don't get a second chance, but than again I place in my highest bid. If I place in my highest bid early in the bidding, I may pay a lot more for an item I really want. Such is the fun of ebay.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:49 am

A friend of mine won first prize at a car show in the unrestored catagory, with his unrestored car. They told him if he had sanded down the rust on the valve covers and repainted them then the car would have been in a different catagory and he wouldn't have won.

With many things its how original do you want to go.

Even with the way it was done, like you said they could have come up with a better colour match for the spine to the cover. It was said that Porter's book was poorly bound, mabe the seller had no choice but to rebind it. unless he could have reglued the original spine to the pages, then it would be more original.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:45 am

Yes Fargo: Collectors are funny people. I see that everytime I look in the mirror. You do have your purists who will accept nothing less than a book with the binding it was published with.

The Car comparison you made is a perfect example of how fanatical some of us can get. I once seen this beautiful MGB. Beautiful condition, like new. My friend and I love MG's Autins H, TR6'S etc. My buddy fell in love with it until the owner popped the hood. He had a Chev V8 in it. The conversion was very professionally done. Wow, wish I could drive it. What a rocket......My buddy thought it was trash. "What's wrong with people" he would think.

The Porter book that was on ebay, was not a bad job with the rebinding. As a matter a fact it looked quite professional. The problem with the book was not the binding job done, but that the appearance of the book was radically changed.

A bookbinder/conservator could have returned that book close to it's orginal appearance, so much so, that you would need to hold it in your hand and closely examine it to make out the repair. They even use old/older cloth to match the existing cloth and book age. I have seen some amazing repairs.

I would imagine, (have not checked in many years) that to repair that book and bring it back to it's original conditioin (not new but let's say very good) and appearance would be in the 75 to 150 dollar range. If you got it for 200 and spent another 100 to restore it, could be well worth it. But I would not want to judge a book on ebay unless they came with some real sharp photos and plenty of them. It could have some other serious issues that cannot be displayed over a computer screen

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:22 am

Regarding Porter's Fall River Tragedy, I ran across this in Pearson's 1924 "Studies in Murder", appendix, page 289:

"This book is out of print, and is generally supposed to have been "suppressed". In Fall River it seems to be on the index librorum prohibitorum; it is mentioned in hushed tones, and is not included in the catalogue of the public library."

At the time Pearson wrote his Studies, Lizzie was still alive. No fools in that library.

william · Post by **william** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:34 am

Harry, I would hazard an educated guess that the library acquired their first copy of Pearson's book sometime after June 1927.

Wouldn't you agree?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:09 pm

Probably so, William. No sense aggravating a rich citizen and potential patron.

We know (I hate to say that about anything in this case!) that Lizzie never did any shopping in Fall River herself but either sent a servant or did her shopping out of town. Wonder if she went to the library herself. Half the fun in a library is the browsing.

We went in the library on our last visit in August. It's quite beautiful and worth a looksy if you visit Fall River. Not all that far from 92 Second St.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:56 pm

Another original Porter for sale on ebay. Awful condition, as found more times than not.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... Track=true

Oh yes, also the Flynn book about the mystery of the Ax. Limited to 500 copies, this little book doesn't turn up to often, in which case, it's probably priced right, though a pricey item.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIZZIE-BORDEN-the-M ... dZViewItem

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Wed May 24, 2006 8:39 am

Thanks for the posts on the eBay books, mb. So you think the Porter on there is in bad condition? (I've never compared original Porters before.)What do you think it's worth, in the condition that we can see on the screen?

The Bob Flynn "Mysterious Axe" is tempting ...

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:19 pm

Yes augusta: The Porter is very typical of what is found when you come across a copy of Porter's book.

The biggest problem with the 1893 issue of Porter's book is the type of paper used, which was very high in acid. That is one of the worst conditions that can happen to paper. Once the spine of the signatures begin to deteriorate, pages start falling out and there is no spine to the paper to support them behind the cloth spine, at which time, it is just not worth trying to save the book.

It's like a folded piece of paper. Once the paper turns to dust at the fold and separates, not easy to bind them together again. Now you must glue, but first the paper must be treated for the acid issue, not worth it.

When a book looks bad in a photo, it is usually worst once in your hands. At least that has been my experience with buying on ebay. Everyone has standards when it comes to condition. Mine are higher than most so I would avoid this Porter. The Acid issue scares me. As you can see the first page is taped in. If I didn't have a copy and dearly wanted one, I may pay under 50 dollars for it, otherwise I would avoid it. But that is me. Issues of Porter's book like the one displayed in the Hatchet this month can dictate asking prices of 900 to 1200 dollars in dealer catalogues. To a hard-core collector condition is everything.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Wed May 24, 2006 10:01 pm

To add a little more to my post above. The Flynn booklet contains some interesting illustrations. The entire "book'let" is only 16 pages long. My copy is signed by "Robert A Flynn Aug 4, 1992" and is numbered #5 in ink. Here is one of the illustrations showing and explaining the different types of ax made. Interesting little book.

The post below is of the ebay site of the booklet.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LIZZIE-BORDEN-the-M ... dZViewItem

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:16 pm

The 1893 Porter book that I listed above, 4 posts back, was sold today on ebay for $127.50. There were 14 bids and 5 bidders.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:15 pm

Did old biddercritter win this one too ?

Tracy...

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:26 pm

old bittercritter,

the ebay/user name of the person that won was "The E Ticket." (?)

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:39 pm

Maybe it was that biddercritter won the CD version. Sorry MB, you aren't familiar with the forum nemesis of which I speak. Hopefully you will never have to cross that path that many of us have.

Tracy...