Hi:
I am a professional sculptor, a newbie here and have been an amateur Lizzie Borden aficionado since a child. I recently started a new company called Figuratively Speaking Studios. My initial line of one-of-a-kind Art Dolls is entitled Three Fatal Females. Of course - I just had to do Lizzie!
Some have speculated that Lizzie committed the murders in the nude. My costumer informed me that this would have been impossible as women needed a maid assistance in order to either dress or undress and that the entire process took over 30 min to accomplish.
She could have, however, stripped down to her undergarments.
I decided to depict Lizzie in the basement cleaning up between the double murders. The death of her parents did bring Lizzie the wealth that she had so longed for and I attempted to show her contemplating her new freedom as she waited for Papa to return home.
I would be so grateful for any of you to give me some feedback on the figure and let me know how it fits into your visions of Lizzie! The link to her pictures is below.
http://www.davidrobertcellitti.com/Site/Home.html
Please let me know what you think!
Yours
David Robert Cellitti
LIZZIE BORDEN ART DOLL
Moderator: Adminlizzieborden
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discovision
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Audrey
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I don't know why but I have never been very enthusiastic about looking at Lizzie's nipples.
IMHO, the Lizzie you depict appears much older than she was at the time of the crimes and appears to be more overweight than she was as well.
No matter what she may have or may not have done, I have always sensed Lizzie possessed a great deal of pride and dignity and conducted herself accordingly.
If I wanted to depict her as the guilty party immediately after the crime I would try to make her appear almost serene and expectant. Probably in the doorway after she dispatched Bridgett and prior to Mrs. Churchill's arrival. I think Lizzie possessed a great deal of strength and this would have been one of the moments in her life she would have had to call on it the most.
IMHO, the Lizzie you depict appears much older than she was at the time of the crimes and appears to be more overweight than she was as well.
No matter what she may have or may not have done, I have always sensed Lizzie possessed a great deal of pride and dignity and conducted herself accordingly.
If I wanted to depict her as the guilty party immediately after the crime I would try to make her appear almost serene and expectant. Probably in the doorway after she dispatched Bridgett and prior to Mrs. Churchill's arrival. I think Lizzie possessed a great deal of strength and this would have been one of the moments in her life she would have had to call on it the most.
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discovision
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Lizzie as Lore
Audrey:
Thanks for the feedback. Sorry about the exposed nipple, but the cut of the corset is a duplicate of the style that was in fashion at the time. The corset-cover can be seen hanging from her shoulders - this was a forerunner to the modern day bra.
Our company motto is “Sometimes historical, always theatrical.” There is so little photographic research on Lizzie that I had to make certain calls in order to keep what I felt was the spirit of the thing. All of the really famous images of Lizzie tend to make her look like a moose trying very hard to look fashionable. Lizzie has a very heavy face and I always got the impression that she could barely breath in her corsets they are pulled so tight. The full body shots of her make her appear like an upholstered couch.
The fact that there was at least an hour between the murders always fascinated me. Just like the O.J. Simpson murders I have never read anything that sounded like a credible alibi for Lizzie and am convinced she did it.
No matter how you slice it (no pun intended) they were brutal murders and there had to be a great deal of passion behind the acts. Lizzie’s public persona was so cool and collected. I am convinced there was a side to her many people never saw. It’s that part of her personality I tried to portray with her all alone in the basement contemplating her future as she waited for Andrew to return home.
I knew going in that tackling an American legend would be risky. That said – the doll is everything I envisioned and a bit more!
DAVID ROBERT CELLITTI
http://www.davidrobertcellitti.com/Site/Home.html
Thanks for the feedback. Sorry about the exposed nipple, but the cut of the corset is a duplicate of the style that was in fashion at the time. The corset-cover can be seen hanging from her shoulders - this was a forerunner to the modern day bra.
Our company motto is “Sometimes historical, always theatrical.” There is so little photographic research on Lizzie that I had to make certain calls in order to keep what I felt was the spirit of the thing. All of the really famous images of Lizzie tend to make her look like a moose trying very hard to look fashionable. Lizzie has a very heavy face and I always got the impression that she could barely breath in her corsets they are pulled so tight. The full body shots of her make her appear like an upholstered couch.
The fact that there was at least an hour between the murders always fascinated me. Just like the O.J. Simpson murders I have never read anything that sounded like a credible alibi for Lizzie and am convinced she did it.
No matter how you slice it (no pun intended) they were brutal murders and there had to be a great deal of passion behind the acts. Lizzie’s public persona was so cool and collected. I am convinced there was a side to her many people never saw. It’s that part of her personality I tried to portray with her all alone in the basement contemplating her future as she waited for Andrew to return home.
I knew going in that tackling an American legend would be risky. That said – the doll is everything I envisioned and a bit more!
DAVID ROBERT CELLITTI
http://www.davidrobertcellitti.com/Site/Home.html
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Harry
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Welcome, and thank you for letting us preview and comment on your work.
Like Audrey, the bared breast is not to my liking. I think it would draw to much attention to the creation from a tittilating point of view instead of a serious work of art.
At the time of the crimes Lizzie was reported to be 5' 4" and about 130 pounds. Possibly a little chubby but not as much as she sppears to be in your creation. If the dress of hers on display at the B&B is any indication of her size, then even those measurements may be over-stated and she was a smaller woman than we imagine.
In all known 6 photos of Lizzie, spanning from her teens to adult years, she wore the same distinct hair style. You may want to consider capturing that more closely at least for us purists.
Like Audrey, the bared breast is not to my liking. I think it would draw to much attention to the creation from a tittilating point of view instead of a serious work of art.
At the time of the crimes Lizzie was reported to be 5' 4" and about 130 pounds. Possibly a little chubby but not as much as she sppears to be in your creation. If the dress of hers on display at the B&B is any indication of her size, then even those measurements may be over-stated and she was a smaller woman than we imagine.
In all known 6 photos of Lizzie, spanning from her teens to adult years, she wore the same distinct hair style. You may want to consider capturing that more closely at least for us purists.
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discovision
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Harry:
One of the things I learned during my career is that the image people leave behind them is often larger than the reality. When I did a Jean Harlow figure for the Petersen Automotive Museum in Los Angeles I stuck very closely to her actual measurements. Jean was 5’2 and this was how I portrayed her. Despite it being a very nice likeness, museum visitors kept asking why we had made her a pigmy!
When I created The Three Stooges at Movieland Wax Museum I knew I was going to run into the same problem if I made them their actual heights – 5’1”!!!
Moe Howard’s daughter told me it didn’t matter what height I made them as long as all three were the same height, because that was the look. I settled on 5’7” for the trio.
The descriptions of Lizzie’s hair and eye color are all over the place, so we chose a color spectrum that would be consistent for the figure, costume and set pieces. Lizzie achieved a rare status. She is an American Legend. It is that larger than life quality I wanted rather than a slavish museum recreation.
David Robert Cellitti
http://www.davidrobertcellitti.com/Site/Home.html
One of the things I learned during my career is that the image people leave behind them is often larger than the reality. When I did a Jean Harlow figure for the Petersen Automotive Museum in Los Angeles I stuck very closely to her actual measurements. Jean was 5’2 and this was how I portrayed her. Despite it being a very nice likeness, museum visitors kept asking why we had made her a pigmy!
When I created The Three Stooges at Movieland Wax Museum I knew I was going to run into the same problem if I made them their actual heights – 5’1”!!!
Moe Howard’s daughter told me it didn’t matter what height I made them as long as all three were the same height, because that was the look. I settled on 5’7” for the trio.
The descriptions of Lizzie’s hair and eye color are all over the place, so we chose a color spectrum that would be consistent for the figure, costume and set pieces. Lizzie achieved a rare status. She is an American Legend. It is that larger than life quality I wanted rather than a slavish museum recreation.
David Robert Cellitti
http://www.davidrobertcellitti.com/Site/Home.html
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theebmonique
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Welcome to the forum Discovision.
Yes, the bared breast is not part of the 'mystique' of the Lizzie we have come to know. The corset in your work seems a bit on the 'naughty' side for the fine Victorian women of those days.
Also, would Lizzie (and Abby too ?) have had Bridget get her all 'corseted' up...just to clean house or lounge about ?
Your work shows that you are most definitely a finely-skilled artist, but I am just not seeing this particular piece as you intended it to be seen...as Lizzie.
Tracy...
Yes, the bared breast is not part of the 'mystique' of the Lizzie we have come to know. The corset in your work seems a bit on the 'naughty' side for the fine Victorian women of those days.
Also, would Lizzie (and Abby too ?) have had Bridget get her all 'corseted' up...just to clean house or lounge about ?
Your work shows that you are most definitely a finely-skilled artist, but I am just not seeing this particular piece as you intended it to be seen...as Lizzie.
Tracy...
I'm defying gravity and you can't pull me down.
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discovision
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Tracy:
It is my understanding that Lizzie was fully dressed during the time of the murders, not in lounging or morning dress. It was the lack of blood on her clothes that confused people. Anyone involved with a pair of murders that brutal would most likely be spattered in blood. This later led to the speculation that a nude Lizzie had done the deed, had quickly rinsed herself off of the obvious blood on her person and slipped something over her.
My costumier, Griffith Henninger, is an expert on women’s period fashion. It was he who informed me that it would have been virtually impossible for a women of Lizzie’s station to dress and undress without the help of a maid and that the process either way usually took 20 minutes to a half-hour. At best, he said, she would have been able to just remove her dress, but not her foundation garments. This leads to some interesting speculation as to what Bridget knew or saw. After talking with Griff I came to the conclusion that while I don’t believe Bridget participated in the murders she may very have help Lizzie conceal evidence. After the trial Bridget returned to her homeland with a sum of money and one can only speculate what her deathbed revelations were.
I figured any corset for the late 1800’s would cover the breast, but he informed me that the design from the period left the breasts exposed and that am upper, thin corset cover was used only for modesty purposes and that it was left for the actual clothing to create the final layer.
Lizzie was known to be unhappy with her father’s miserly ways and had developed a taste of the good life on her European tour. The only way Lizzie could have rebelled against Andrew without being obvious would be by concealing it. A “naughty” red stain corset bought in Paris and worn under conservative clothes might well have given her a way to make a statement without being obvious.
While people may not want to think of Lizzie that way, the one exposed breast is historically accurate and my way of exposing the fact that we are dealing with a passionate, sexual woman. The link between violence and sexuality is strong. The lesbian element to Lizzie is interesting only because, if true, it is another brick in the repressive wall that was obviously crushing the woman. A person can repress their true self for only so long and then it often times explodes on the surface in very inappropriate ways. The murder of her parents ended up giving Lizzie the freedom she obviously lusted after. A good house in the best part of town, fashionable clothes and a sewing circle of theatrical types as friends were the complete antithesis of her life prior to the murders. It is also clear that from that point Lizzie could have cared less about what locals thought of her. Said to say – murder seemed to be the only way Lizzie could cut the Gordian knot and achieve social freedom.
DAVID ROBERT CELLITTI
It is my understanding that Lizzie was fully dressed during the time of the murders, not in lounging or morning dress. It was the lack of blood on her clothes that confused people. Anyone involved with a pair of murders that brutal would most likely be spattered in blood. This later led to the speculation that a nude Lizzie had done the deed, had quickly rinsed herself off of the obvious blood on her person and slipped something over her.
My costumier, Griffith Henninger, is an expert on women’s period fashion. It was he who informed me that it would have been virtually impossible for a women of Lizzie’s station to dress and undress without the help of a maid and that the process either way usually took 20 minutes to a half-hour. At best, he said, she would have been able to just remove her dress, but not her foundation garments. This leads to some interesting speculation as to what Bridget knew or saw. After talking with Griff I came to the conclusion that while I don’t believe Bridget participated in the murders she may very have help Lizzie conceal evidence. After the trial Bridget returned to her homeland with a sum of money and one can only speculate what her deathbed revelations were.
I figured any corset for the late 1800’s would cover the breast, but he informed me that the design from the period left the breasts exposed and that am upper, thin corset cover was used only for modesty purposes and that it was left for the actual clothing to create the final layer.
Lizzie was known to be unhappy with her father’s miserly ways and had developed a taste of the good life on her European tour. The only way Lizzie could have rebelled against Andrew without being obvious would be by concealing it. A “naughty” red stain corset bought in Paris and worn under conservative clothes might well have given her a way to make a statement without being obvious.
While people may not want to think of Lizzie that way, the one exposed breast is historically accurate and my way of exposing the fact that we are dealing with a passionate, sexual woman. The link between violence and sexuality is strong. The lesbian element to Lizzie is interesting only because, if true, it is another brick in the repressive wall that was obviously crushing the woman. A person can repress their true self for only so long and then it often times explodes on the surface in very inappropriate ways. The murder of her parents ended up giving Lizzie the freedom she obviously lusted after. A good house in the best part of town, fashionable clothes and a sewing circle of theatrical types as friends were the complete antithesis of her life prior to the murders. It is also clear that from that point Lizzie could have cared less about what locals thought of her. Said to say – murder seemed to be the only way Lizzie could cut the Gordian knot and achieve social freedom.
DAVID ROBERT CELLITTI
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Stefani
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I rather like it---and while the nipple is not expected there is something about that chubby face that is Lizzie to me. Your Lizzie (and we have to admit it is YOUR interpretation of her after the crimes), represents a measure of gluttony that I think visually adds to the idea of her as a killer---not of food but of money.
I know you can't eat money, and that the vice I might be looking for is greed, but how can you show that in a sculpture?
Your Lizzie is fatter and more voluptuous than I ever imagined her to be, what with the Victorian sensibilities and all. Her slutty attire is period, but we have no evidence she ever owned such garments. However, you are an artist of great skill and vision and I think that she is a great contribution to the Lizzie art scene.
The detail in the skin on her back is remarkable! Her popping out of her undergarment seems a reasonable thing after having hacked a few people to death, so there is a measure of realism to the scene as well.
And I understand your tale about making figures not exactly accurate for all sorts of reasons. Thank you for sharing the stories--especially the one about the Stooges.
I really can't stop staring at her face, and the angle of her head in relation to the scene. Such mocking superiority! Such self-satisfaction. Perhaps what you have done is capture her essence, if not her perfect likeness. Brava!
PS: the body of Andrew wasn't "hacked to pieces" as you say on your info page. And the motive about the will is pure supposition, but you state it as fact----a thing we are very sensitive to around here!!
I know you can't eat money, and that the vice I might be looking for is greed, but how can you show that in a sculpture?
Your Lizzie is fatter and more voluptuous than I ever imagined her to be, what with the Victorian sensibilities and all. Her slutty attire is period, but we have no evidence she ever owned such garments. However, you are an artist of great skill and vision and I think that she is a great contribution to the Lizzie art scene.
The detail in the skin on her back is remarkable! Her popping out of her undergarment seems a reasonable thing after having hacked a few people to death, so there is a measure of realism to the scene as well.
And I understand your tale about making figures not exactly accurate for all sorts of reasons. Thank you for sharing the stories--especially the one about the Stooges.
I really can't stop staring at her face, and the angle of her head in relation to the scene. Such mocking superiority! Such self-satisfaction. Perhaps what you have done is capture her essence, if not her perfect likeness. Brava!
PS: the body of Andrew wasn't "hacked to pieces" as you say on your info page. And the motive about the will is pure supposition, but you state it as fact----a thing we are very sensitive to around here!!
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Audrey
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I do not think Lizzie enjoyed the attentions of a lady's maid. She dressed herself.
Stef raises a good point-- It is your interpretation of Lizzie and she is indeed correct about your talent. It is magnificent work.
Do you sell your pieces? Do you create commissioned work?
I should not have inferred that your sculpture was substandard. It is far from that. It just does not fit my vision of Lizzie. Please accept my apologies.
Stef raises a good point-- It is your interpretation of Lizzie and she is indeed correct about your talent. It is magnificent work.
Do you sell your pieces? Do you create commissioned work?
I should not have inferred that your sculpture was substandard. It is far from that. It just does not fit my vision of Lizzie. Please accept my apologies.
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Allen
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But Bridget did not help Lizzie get dressed the day of the murders. We have testimony from Bridget of everything she did that morning, and helping Lizzie to get dressed wasn't in testimony anywhere. She says the first she saw of Lizzie that day is after she already came downstairs. Lizzie came downstairs fully dressed, with no help from Bridget, and Emma was not at home. I agree with Audrey. I rather think that Lizzie knew how to get dressed all by herself. I think the reason a woman needed help getting dressed was because some of the old lace up corsetsdiscovision @ Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:21 am wrote:Tracy:
My costumier, Griffith Henninger, is an expert on women’s period fashion. It was he who informed me that it would have been virtually impossible for a women of Lizzie’s station to dress and undress without the help of a maid and that the process either way usually took 20 minutes to a half-hour. At best, he said, she would have been able to just remove her dress, but not her foundation garments.
DAVID ROBERT CELLITTI
fastened only in the back. But from what I have read by this time there were corsets available that fastened in the front.
"He who cannot put his thoughts on ice should not enter into the head of dispute." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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discovision
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Stefani:
I am still blushing from your comments. Thank you.
I never intended to do a historically perfect Lizzie Borden. In the first place, there is just not enough photographic research to accomplish this. What I was trying to do, you saw – and for that I am grateful. I wanted to capture what I felt was the spirit of the thing. That you were able to see this in her face, her body and attitude makes me very happy.
I will be sure to alter the text changes you suggested on the site.
Again – you made me very happy with your comments.
David Robert Cellitti
http://www.davidrobertcellitti.com/Site/Home.html
I am still blushing from your comments. Thank you.
I never intended to do a historically perfect Lizzie Borden. In the first place, there is just not enough photographic research to accomplish this. What I was trying to do, you saw – and for that I am grateful. I wanted to capture what I felt was the spirit of the thing. That you were able to see this in her face, her body and attitude makes me very happy.
I will be sure to alter the text changes you suggested on the site.
Again – you made me very happy with your comments.
David Robert Cellitti
http://www.davidrobertcellitti.com/Site/Home.html
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discovision
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Allen:
Point taken. Lizzie could have very well had busks on the front of her corset that would allow her to get in and out by herself. That said, getting dressed and undressed - even solo - is something that took women in the late 1800's a bit of time.
I know there has been a lot of talk about the exposed breast on the doll - but since I wanted to portray Lizzie in the interval between the murders my artistic choice was to either go with the nude theory or put her in undergarments. All things considered - given my personal take on the crime - I went with the more conservative vision.
DAVID ROBERT CELLITTI
Stefani:
I am still blushing from your comments. Thank you.
I never intended to do a historically perfect Lizzie Borden. In the first place, there is just not enough photographic research to accomplish this. What I was trying to do, you saw – and for that I am grateful. I wanted to capture what I felt was the spirit of the thing. That you were able to see this in her face, her body and attitude makes me very happy.
I will be sure to alter the text changes you suggested on the site.
Again – you made me very happy with your comments.
David Robert Cellitti
http://www.davidrobertcellitti.com/Site/Home.html
Point taken. Lizzie could have very well had busks on the front of her corset that would allow her to get in and out by herself. That said, getting dressed and undressed - even solo - is something that took women in the late 1800's a bit of time.
I know there has been a lot of talk about the exposed breast on the doll - but since I wanted to portray Lizzie in the interval between the murders my artistic choice was to either go with the nude theory or put her in undergarments. All things considered - given my personal take on the crime - I went with the more conservative vision.
DAVID ROBERT CELLITTI
Stefani:
I am still blushing from your comments. Thank you.
I never intended to do a historically perfect Lizzie Borden. In the first place, there is just not enough photographic research to accomplish this. What I was trying to do, you saw – and for that I am grateful. I wanted to capture what I felt was the spirit of the thing. That you were able to see this in her face, her body and attitude makes me very happy.
I will be sure to alter the text changes you suggested on the site.
Again – you made me very happy with your comments.
David Robert Cellitti
http://www.davidrobertcellitti.com/Site/Home.html
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discovision
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theebmonique
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Mr. Cellitti,
I too apologize if you found my comments offensive. It is quite clear that you are an artisan who cares deeply about their work. I guess I had never considered Lizzie could possibly look in a way I had not expected. You have opened my eyes to a new idea. I would like to see more pictures of your work.
Tracy...
I too apologize if you found my comments offensive. It is quite clear that you are an artisan who cares deeply about their work. I guess I had never considered Lizzie could possibly look in a way I had not expected. You have opened my eyes to a new idea. I would like to see more pictures of your work.
Tracy...
I'm defying gravity and you can't pull me down.
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discovision
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Tracy:
Trust me - there is no need for apologies! Lizzie Borden is an icon - and anytime an artist dares to take one a subject as iconic as Lizzie Borden they have to be prepared for differing opinions.
The handful of photos left to us of Lizzie are typical for their day. Stiff, humorless and lifeless – they give no hint of the woman who allegedly bludgeoned her parents to death with an axe. I ran into the same problem when I was collecting research on Charlotte Corday. Contemporary prints of Corday all portray her as placid, almost Madonna like.
I didn’t want to play it safe and portray them as museum pieces gathering dust. I wanted to capture both these women in the moment that immortalized them. To show Lizzie Borden stark naked burying an axe in the skull of her father would have been merely sensational. But to show her, between murders, considering the actions she just had taken, thinking about the actions she to come and contemplating the future – that seemed a challenge and a moment in time I wanted to visit.
Please feel free to have a look at my online portfolio and resume at the URL below. There you will find examples of the pieces I did for most of my career.
http://homepage.mac.com/eliocon/
Again – no need to apologize. I wanted the comments of others who felt as passionately as I did about Lizzie!
David
Trust me - there is no need for apologies! Lizzie Borden is an icon - and anytime an artist dares to take one a subject as iconic as Lizzie Borden they have to be prepared for differing opinions.
The handful of photos left to us of Lizzie are typical for their day. Stiff, humorless and lifeless – they give no hint of the woman who allegedly bludgeoned her parents to death with an axe. I ran into the same problem when I was collecting research on Charlotte Corday. Contemporary prints of Corday all portray her as placid, almost Madonna like.
I didn’t want to play it safe and portray them as museum pieces gathering dust. I wanted to capture both these women in the moment that immortalized them. To show Lizzie Borden stark naked burying an axe in the skull of her father would have been merely sensational. But to show her, between murders, considering the actions she just had taken, thinking about the actions she to come and contemplating the future – that seemed a challenge and a moment in time I wanted to visit.
Please feel free to have a look at my online portfolio and resume at the URL below. There you will find examples of the pieces I did for most of my career.
http://homepage.mac.com/eliocon/
Again – no need to apologize. I wanted the comments of others who felt as passionately as I did about Lizzie!
David
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Smudgeman
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Wow! I like your sculptures VERY much. Very cool! I admire your work, as a Liberal Arts major, I loved painting and drawing, but could never excel in sculpture. I especially like your Bette Davis. The Lizzie one is interesting as well. It shows her as a "real, living person" bare breast exposed and all. She wasn't this posed, reserved person we see in all of her portraits all of the time.
"I'd luv to kiss ya, but I just washed my hair"
Bette Davis
Bette Davis
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Kat
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I think people's first reactions to the art piece are valid. It's a bonus to an artist to read a fresh immediate response.
My reaction is that it is finely crafted and shows huge talent.
My opinion is that any work of art, painting, sculputre, poetry, is a view of the inside of the brain of the creator.
So this is a view of the inside of your head.
You are exposing yourself- which is always brave.
But then we hear there is a collaborator who is the costumer. That might have influenced the piece.
We all know that scantilly clad is more provacative than nude, and if she was nude, there'd be no work for the costumer. So bottom line is this is what is the contents of the inside of the heads of 2 people.
The commissioned pieces are quite a contrast. They have dignity. There is not a depiction of Marilyn in her worst moment of her life, being found lying dead, nude in her musty-smelling bed in her own vomit.
What I see is a depiction of a judgement passed on Lizzie. She is slatternly looking, and crude and almost mannish and the breast showing is the proof she is not a man committing a man's act.
But our Lizzie was acquited- and I think that's the dignity we give her and the bit of respect she has earned- because of that.
Your Judgement here in this art piece leaves no other possible interpretation other than Lizzie did it and is covered in gore and also with a sexual connotation.
That realization reminds me of the movie- The Legend of Lizzie Borden. Maybe you saw that?
It's a spectacle we here usually have to overcome because as in your creation- and as in that movie- there is no question that Lizzie did it. The crime is solved. Visual images are powerful. I once remarked to Harry that it's almost too bad that that Legend movie was ever made because you can't un-visualize such a story as that movie. It colors our thinking ever after. It's almost something we have to overcome.
You are absolutely most geniusly talented in your craft, and your costumer is brilliant!
But, as I said, Lizzie was found *not guilty* and so we continue to struggle. I think that verdict lends her some bit of respecability.
My reaction is that it is finely crafted and shows huge talent.
My opinion is that any work of art, painting, sculputre, poetry, is a view of the inside of the brain of the creator.
So this is a view of the inside of your head.
You are exposing yourself- which is always brave.
But then we hear there is a collaborator who is the costumer. That might have influenced the piece.
We all know that scantilly clad is more provacative than nude, and if she was nude, there'd be no work for the costumer. So bottom line is this is what is the contents of the inside of the heads of 2 people.
The commissioned pieces are quite a contrast. They have dignity. There is not a depiction of Marilyn in her worst moment of her life, being found lying dead, nude in her musty-smelling bed in her own vomit.
What I see is a depiction of a judgement passed on Lizzie. She is slatternly looking, and crude and almost mannish and the breast showing is the proof she is not a man committing a man's act.
But our Lizzie was acquited- and I think that's the dignity we give her and the bit of respect she has earned- because of that.
Your Judgement here in this art piece leaves no other possible interpretation other than Lizzie did it and is covered in gore and also with a sexual connotation.
That realization reminds me of the movie- The Legend of Lizzie Borden. Maybe you saw that?
It's a spectacle we here usually have to overcome because as in your creation- and as in that movie- there is no question that Lizzie did it. The crime is solved. Visual images are powerful. I once remarked to Harry that it's almost too bad that that Legend movie was ever made because you can't un-visualize such a story as that movie. It colors our thinking ever after. It's almost something we have to overcome.
You are absolutely most geniusly talented in your craft, and your costumer is brilliant!
But, as I said, Lizzie was found *not guilty* and so we continue to struggle. I think that verdict lends her some bit of respecability.
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Mark A.
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Well, Isn't that different!
I like it. Sure, there is a little too much nipple even for my liking but overall I think it's a neat piece. I really like how the blood is splattered/sprayed across her forearm. I do think that her overly large double chin is not proportionate to her somewhat average size arm if you look at the side shot.
I really like the back-shot (bottom left). It looks life-like. Nice work.
I like it. Sure, there is a little too much nipple even for my liking but overall I think it's a neat piece. I really like how the blood is splattered/sprayed across her forearm. I do think that her overly large double chin is not proportionate to her somewhat average size arm if you look at the side shot.
I really like the back-shot (bottom left). It looks life-like. Nice work.
Mark A.
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Susan
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Welcome to the Forum, David. Thank you for sharing your Lizzie piece with us. As one artist to another, I have to tell you, your work is just beautiful, the attention to detail, the posing. etc! And your costumer's work is just gorgeous, especially realizing the size of these pieces, getting people sized fabrics to lay just right on a small figure.
I think I understand what you were going for with Lizzie, more the feel of her and the moment moreso than an exact likeness which I see you are more than capable of creating. Love the Bette Davis and Marilyn pieces! I think you captured the iconic murderous Lizzie, the avarice, the self-satisfaction of having put her evil plans into motion and that faraway look, dreaming of the future and just wait 'til Father gets home. Truly amazing work. Oh, and I used to live a hop, skip and a jump away from Belmar in Asbury Park, NJ.
I think I understand what you were going for with Lizzie, more the feel of her and the moment moreso than an exact likeness which I see you are more than capable of creating. Love the Bette Davis and Marilyn pieces! I think you captured the iconic murderous Lizzie, the avarice, the self-satisfaction of having put her evil plans into motion and that faraway look, dreaming of the future and just wait 'til Father gets home. Truly amazing work. Oh, and I used to live a hop, skip and a jump away from Belmar in Asbury Park, NJ.
“Sometimes when we are generous in small, barely detectable ways it can change someone else's life forever.”-Margaret Cho comedienne
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discovision
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Susan:
Thank you for the comments and observations. I think in some weird way Lizzie knew she would be acquitted from the very beginning. I did NOT want to make her look evil. I did, however, wanted her to look smug and self-satisfied. That you were able to see that in her face is a great compliment.
My costumer, Griff Henninger, is truly an artist…and I don’t use that word either often or lightly. One of the dead giveaways that a doll is a doll is the scale of the clothes. They usually look like someone took normal sized cloth and cut it down to a smaller scale. Many people think that the dolls are life-size. This is due primarily to the fact that the clothes do not give the true scale away. We have the kind of artistic relationship that does not happen very often. We have become true collaborators. I joke that we are the Gilbert and Sullivan of the Art Doll world. His costumes make me want to be a better sculptor and my figures make him want to make better costumes.
Often time with dolls you have either a great sculpting and a so-so costume or visa versa. What has pleased me more than anything with our pieces is that neither of these elements looks divorced from the other. Just as Gilberts words were perfectly matched to Sullivan’s music so the costume seems perfectly wedded to the figure.
I am so pleased you were able to connect to our Lizzie and I am grateful for your feedback.
DAVID ROBERT CELLTTI
PS: My favorite quote of Dorothy Parker's is "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think." What a gal!
Thank you for the comments and observations. I think in some weird way Lizzie knew she would be acquitted from the very beginning. I did NOT want to make her look evil. I did, however, wanted her to look smug and self-satisfied. That you were able to see that in her face is a great compliment.
My costumer, Griff Henninger, is truly an artist…and I don’t use that word either often or lightly. One of the dead giveaways that a doll is a doll is the scale of the clothes. They usually look like someone took normal sized cloth and cut it down to a smaller scale. Many people think that the dolls are life-size. This is due primarily to the fact that the clothes do not give the true scale away. We have the kind of artistic relationship that does not happen very often. We have become true collaborators. I joke that we are the Gilbert and Sullivan of the Art Doll world. His costumes make me want to be a better sculptor and my figures make him want to make better costumes.
Often time with dolls you have either a great sculpting and a so-so costume or visa versa. What has pleased me more than anything with our pieces is that neither of these elements looks divorced from the other. Just as Gilberts words were perfectly matched to Sullivan’s music so the costume seems perfectly wedded to the figure.
I am so pleased you were able to connect to our Lizzie and I am grateful for your feedback.
DAVID ROBERT CELLTTI
PS: My favorite quote of Dorothy Parker's is "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think." What a gal!
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Bob Gutowski
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Wow! Beautiful work - the bared breasts are a shock at first peek, but then, Lizzie was a real woman, and we have certainly spent enough time discussing her menstrual cycle on this very web site!
I still would love to own a clothed 12-inch poseable Lizzie; maybe a 3-D rendering of her pose in that vacation shot, behind the chair. I have a few of the excellent Sideshow Universal Monsters on the top of my bookshelves. My bobble-head Lizzie is lovely, but doesn't satisfy the need for a dignified, realistic Liz.
My only caveat is the very pink lips you'ver given her, but surely, as you've made clear, this is one artist's vision of Miss Borden. You've wisely declined to portray her teeth at all, since we have no idea what they looked like. Bravo, I say!
Ps. I just read the names of some of the make-up effects pros with whom you've worked! Horror is my favorite genre, and now I'm REALLY impressed!
I still would love to own a clothed 12-inch poseable Lizzie; maybe a 3-D rendering of her pose in that vacation shot, behind the chair. I have a few of the excellent Sideshow Universal Monsters on the top of my bookshelves. My bobble-head Lizzie is lovely, but doesn't satisfy the need for a dignified, realistic Liz.
My only caveat is the very pink lips you'ver given her, but surely, as you've made clear, this is one artist's vision of Miss Borden. You've wisely declined to portray her teeth at all, since we have no idea what they looked like. Bravo, I say!
Ps. I just read the names of some of the make-up effects pros with whom you've worked! Horror is my favorite genre, and now I'm REALLY impressed!
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discovision
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Bob:
Thank you so much for your comments. They are very much appreciated. I think you are the first person to make the observation that the exposed nipple just reminds us that Lizzie was, after all, a real woman. The correlation between sex and power has become something of a cliche by now, but that was the territory I was visiting when I designed the figure. A lifetime of suppression is a horrible thing and sooner or later the kettle will boil over. The sense of relief Lizzie must have felt with both parents gone must have been overwhelming.
When it came time to do cosmetics on the figure were realized that Lizzie would not have worn make-up. We were just trying to make the lips as bland as possible.
Again - thank you for your kind comments.
DABID ROBERT CELLITTI
Thank you so much for your comments. They are very much appreciated. I think you are the first person to make the observation that the exposed nipple just reminds us that Lizzie was, after all, a real woman. The correlation between sex and power has become something of a cliche by now, but that was the territory I was visiting when I designed the figure. A lifetime of suppression is a horrible thing and sooner or later the kettle will boil over. The sense of relief Lizzie must have felt with both parents gone must have been overwhelming.
When it came time to do cosmetics on the figure were realized that Lizzie would not have worn make-up. We were just trying to make the lips as bland as possible.
Again - thank you for your kind comments.
DABID ROBERT CELLITTI