King Philip Publications

[mbhenty]

Does anyone have any marketing information on the sale of Robert Flynn's little red bibliography book being: "THE BORDEN MURDERS An Annotated Bibliography" (?) This is why I ask.

The book was published in 1992 to a Limited number of 1000 copies signed by the author and numbered.

Yesterday I went into my favorite bookstore, BAKER BOOKS in North Dartmouth, MA and found nearly 30 brand spanking new copies on the shelf. I visit BAKER once or twice a month. There are always one or two on the shelf. These are also limited and are numbered in the "400" count.

Now, it has been almost 15 years since this book was published. King Philip Press has published several Limited Edition Books, limited to 1000 copies including Porter's book, Lunday's little book, and the little booket on the finding of the Ax. All were printed in 1000 Limited copies. (Let us not forget the 1986 publication of "THE BORDEN MURDER MYSTERY In Defence Of Lizzie Borden, limited to 750 copies).

All were sold out long ago. All sell now for 3 to 4 times their original cost. So why have "30 New" copies suddenly appeared? How many are there left? Could the publisher been holding out? Was it a bad seller? Or is the publisher just starting to pump out duplicates? Has he not done something similar in the past? Am I being cynical or overly suspisious? What is the number on your copy? Interesting.........................No?

[Fargo]

My copy of The Borden Murders, An Annotated Bibliography is numbered # 679, it is written in red ink. Robert Flynn's signature is written in blue ink.

[theebmonique]

Here's a picture of my copy of "In Defense"...







Tracy...

[theebmonique]

From the front:







Tracy...

[mbhenty]

Yes, thanks Fargo for the info on your copy............my copy is also written in both inks, as all should be. As you can see your copy is in the 600 count. The copies at BAKER BOOKS are in the 400. I am going back to Baker to pick something up so will check and write down the numbers for laughs and giggles. Just not grasping why there should be such a large number unsold, but sure the practice is common.

Cool Tracy......Thanks.......Yes, I would think that the your copy of "THE BORDEN MURDER MYSTERY" would or should be one of "King Philip's most expensive books since there were only 750 printed, was his first attempt at publishing Lizzie, a scace title being A. Phillips narrative, and published 20 years ago. Will need to check the book sites on that one....


(UPDATE: On the "Borden Murder Mystery ABE and BIBLIO have not copies for sale and AMAZON has one for 75 dollars.)

[theebmonique]

I got mine through Mark A., a forum member.





Tracy...

[mbhenty]

Just for the record, the Limited Edition copies (as new) of the 1992 Annotated Bibliography, THE BORDEN MURDERS, a King Philip Publication, which are on sale at Baker Books in North Dartmouth, MA are numbered as such:

There were 30 copies

239, 247, 423, 424, 431, 432, 434, 435, 436, 440, 441, 442, 444, 445, 446, 448, 450, 452, 453, 454, 456, 459, 460, 461, 464, 465, 466, 468, 469, (and 496 ?)

[william]

Michael:

My copy of the Bibliography was dated, 1992. There is a notation the edition is limited to 1000 copies.

My copy bears Mr. Flynn's signature (blue ink) ant the niumber 619, (red ink) in the BACK of the book


I purchased this book in 1994 for $20.00.

[mbhenty]

Yes William, thanks for the response. The 30 copies found at Baker Books are probably nothing to be alarmed about. It's just that I lost what trust I had for the publisher when he pumped out the extra copies of the Limited Edition Porter book after he sold out the initial run without making any changes to the reprint whatsoever. As a collector he rubbed me the wrong way.

Now almost 15 years later a group of 30 show up and it set off my curiosity. You would think after 15 years they would have been long sold out. (all his other publications have) But perhaps he found these extra copies tucked away somewhere? Also the numbers are interesting. Most of the books are numbered in the 400s while 2 copies are in the the 200s?

Even if he did have these unsold copies he broke another rule in book marketing 101. As I'm sure you are aware William, when it comes to numbered collectables the lower the number the more desireble the collectable. When you sell a limited numbered edition you should sell "number 1" first then move up the line to number 2, 3, 4, etc. Why would he sell these out of sequence? Just Unprofessional. But perhaps I am missing somethng here?

[Kat]

Well, I feel that I am learning a lot with these discussions!

[mbhenty]

Here we go again. A friend of mine just attained a copy of Flynn's little (pamphlet) book LIZZIE BORDEN AND THE MYSTERIOUS AXE. When I compared it to mine I found an inaccuracy worth noting.

When publishing a LIMITED EDITION, all editions should be done the same, and they are, unless we are speaking about the King Philip Press.

My copy is signed on the copyright page. Under the copyright it says FIRST EDITION LIMITED TO 500 COPIES. Then it is signed in blue ink by Flynn, dated by Flynn and numbered by Flynn all in blue ink pen.

Now, my friend's copy has the same copyright page stating that it is a first edition and limited to 500 copies but, BUT no signature, not numbered, and no date, but instead Mr. Flynn's signature is written in black pen (signature alone) on the first free end page.

I am willing to bet Mr Flynn once again began to pump out extra copies. Why is this copy not numbered and dated like all the others. Why is the signature on a different page. Why is it in different colored pen? Why? I believe that it was published after the Limited edition ran out. Once again not able to resist the profits I believe the author sacrificed ethics, moral values the principles of book collectors.

[mbhenty]

KING PHILIP PRESS





Photo above is of the first page, or first free end paper. Signed on copy on left which is not signed on dedication page. Copy on right is the Limited Edition copy.

Photo below is of the dedication page. Copy on left is the suspected extra printing. The copy on the right is my copy, signed on the dedication page, numbered #5 and dated by Mr Flynn.

When inspecting the outer cover I find that the cover color is off just a shade proving that it was taken from a different batch or run. It is universal practice for the publisher to print extra copies of a Limited Edition in case copies become damaged, soiled or the author makes an error in signing. Of course these copies are not made to be distributed. Limited to 500 copies means "Limited to 500 copies" and that is all that exists in that edition. Not 501. The extra copies should be kept by the author or more correctly destroyed. But this is common practice and one that annoys collectors such as myself. Is this one of those copies or did Mr Flynn print another 100 or so for sale?

[mbhenty]

I have been collecting for almost 30 years. It's a hobby. There is a method to my madness, as is true with any book collector. Within the book collecting game there are rules by which the publisher should play.

Limited means "Limited, absolute, special, select and there are no other copies avialible up and above the numbered copies--------- unless significant changes in the book have been made." PERIOD !

The copy of the mysterious axe above is nothing new. I have seen many limited numbered editions not numbered or signed when the printing called for it. Though it may not be common, still, does not make it right.

All extra copies up and above the numbered Limited amount should be destroyed. Ethics pure and simple. To do otherwise is to squander restitude, compromise the publishers integrity and assult my honor. To pay 112 dollars for a Limited signed "Fall River Tragedy" and find out that there are possibly twice as much the declared published number is an insult and injury to me and all serious collectors who invest hard earned money into such publications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_edition_books

[mbhenty]

This thread started with some talk about Limited Editions. Below is an interesting link to a story in the news as we speak about this business called "Limited Editions":

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/08/0 ... ang-sales/

[Nadzieja]

After reading this thread, I had to check out my copy of The Borden Murders An Annotated Bibliography. It says the first edition is limited to one thousand numbred copies signed by the author. This is No. 634 (in red ink and his signature is in blue ink. The signature is on the page before the last page in the book. I though signatures were usually put in the front. It to has the copyright date of 1992.

[william]

Michael,

Just to prove the old adage, "There is nothing new under the sun," here is another aberration:

I have a set of eleven books written by Arthur Conan Doyle listed as the Author's Edition. Each book has the notation, "Limited to 230 sets of which this is......." There is no number in the books. The date of publication is 1902.

From this I can only assume that my set is something above and beyond the original 230 sets. I really have no complaint, however, I picked up the books some years back for a total of seven dollars - booksellers are presently listing the books in excess of forty dollars each.

[mbhenty]

Yes Nadzieja, it is common that the authors signature goes on the Limited Edition page. Most Limited Edition copies supply a dedicated line for just that case, usually below the the stated number of issues. But, though this is the rule, their are many exceptions and the authors signature may be found anywhere on the first few pages or the last few.

What counts is that the authors signature, flat signed by the author personally, is in the book.

[mbhenty]

Yes WILLIAM: In the old days when they said it was limited to 350 copies, or such specific number, it usually was; with one tiny exception. The lack of ethic issue, though not one specifically practiced today, is much more common in these times of ethic and moral decay; that is not to say, there were unscrupulous individuals back then also.

Now for the "tiny exception".

It was common practice for publishers to print out a couple of extra copies, say 10 to 25 extra, for the authors personal use, for friends or family. These were left unsigned and not numbered. At times you may find one of these that are signed but not numbered. Since it was not numbered it was not considered part of the Limited Edition run, even though it was the exact book.

Of course this practice was not done to procure profit. It was common courtesy to the author and the extra copies were never meant to be sold.

[Harry]

When I purchased my copy of the Kent/Flynn "Lizzie Borden Sourcebook" it had in it a loose 4x5" piece of fine paper which read "With our best wishes" and signed by both David Kent and Robert Flynn, The paper also had the annotation "Of 1000 copies in this autograph edition, this is number 738." The number 738 is handwritten.

There is nothing in the book itself to say that it is an autograph edition, just the loose piece of paper which was between the pages.

David Kent's signature also appears under the dedication page. Flynn's does not.

It shows copyright 1992, Branden Publishing Co., Boston, Mass.

Does this mean this is some sort of special edition?

[mbhenty]

Not really Harry. Sadly, we have no idea how many of these were printed.

My copy is new, that is, when I purchased it over 15 years ago it was new and still in the same condition. My copy does not say anything about the edition. There was no slip tipped in by Flynn.

It is signed (flat signed) by Kent.

I purchased mine at the Fall River Historical Society.

So, is this book a limited edition? No. A legit Limited Edition must have the Limited dedication page or inscription somewhere in the book giving notice that it is a limited edition.

This was very common practice by Mr. Flynn and others.

For example:

I have David Kent's book Forty Whacks. I purchased it the year it was published as I have with most my Lizzie books. (since 1985, anyway)

In Forty Whacks is a note, a slip signed by Kent which states, "I hope you find the same pleasure reading about Lizzie as I found in writing about her." It is signed David Kent. Under his signature is a notice in small lettering which states: "of 1000 copies in this autograph edition this is number 636."

Of course to a collector such as myself this means nothing. No where in the book itself is it signed or does it prove itself a Limited Edition book. There is no way of finding out how many were really published.

And to make MATTERS WORST. At the end of the same book was another slip or note, same type of paper but a little larger. It says: "With our best wishes," then it is signed by david Kent and below that, Robert Flynn. Again stating: "Of 1000 copies in this autograph edition, this is number 225

Two limited edition slips notices in the same book, both different numbers. What was that all about?

Both books were purchased from the Historical Society. Did they get the slips mixed up?

Only today there was a copy of the Source Book at auction in Fall River at the Elks Club. It was signed by Kent but no slip. So what number was that one? Was there really just 1000 copies?

Who knows......

[Harry]

Thanks, MB. Your knowledge in this area is impressive,

It doesn't seem to make much sense putting that information on a little piece of paper which is not part of the book. Why not just autograph and number the book itself? My guess is that they can sign and number those slips in advance of the book printing. Kent's signature on the dedication page appears to have been printed, not handwritten.

I bought my almost new copy off Ebay so I don't know whether the "autographed edition" would have been priced higher than the non-autographed one. If it was, the buyer got taken if all they got was an autographed slip of paper.

Perhaps they should say the little piece of paper is the autographed edition.

[Harry]

There is a "Source" book up for auction on Ebay right now. It is also an "Autographed edition" and has that same slip of paper that was in my copy. This one is numbered "194".

http://tinyurl.com/5c7r3g

No bids on it yet and it has a starting bid of $9.99 + s/h.

http://i6.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/03/2e/8783_1.JPG