Borden Family Bible ???

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:36 pm

This sounds like another seller using Lizzie's name to make some $$'s.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0113583268

Here is my question to the seller:

Item: LIZZIE JOHN SARAH BORDEN FAMILY BIBLE 1873 TINTYPE PICS (270113583268)

Hello !

When you say the 'Borden family', you aren't meaning the family of Lizzie Borden, the accused axe-murderess, correct ? If you are, may I please ask what the provenance is (other than your description), for it to have actually come from the infamous Bordens ?

Thanks !
Tracy

Tracy...

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:50 pm

I don't recognize any of those names except Lizzie and Sarah. Alla Pettey doesn't ring any bells. I noticed he was careful not to directly say it was our Lizzie's family, though he is hinting at it. No doubt there were other Lizzie and Sarah Bordens in Fall River.

-1bigsteve (o:

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:07 pm

...and we know that Sarah wasn't a Borden until she married Andrew, yet he is not mentioned, nor is Emma. Also, since it has a date of 1873, Abby should be mentioned as well. I do not think for one minute that this is from THE Bordens we are all familiar with. I hope I get an honest answer from the seller.

Tracy...

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:28 pm

I also noticed he omited Andrew, Emma and Abby. The other names don't sound kosher. I don't recognize any of the photographs either.

It will be interesting to see what he say's.

-1bigsteve (o:

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:55 pm

Here is the seller's response (and my follow up)...which is basically a repeat of the description. It leads me to think that the seller thinks he/she has a hot deal, but truly has no idea...but thought that putting Lizzie's name on it would fool somone enough to fork over the hefty asking price.

SELLER'S RESPONSE:
Re: Question for item #270113583268 - LIZZIE JOHN SARAH BORDEN FAMILY BIBLE 1873 TINTYPE PICS

I received this item from an estate in fall river. The lady that I got the book from told me that it was passed down from lizzie bordens family as her grand mother worked for the family. I have matched up john bordens pic to one on the deadfred web site. two others have the names below the pic. Sarah borden is one of them. I do not have a pic of Lizzie

MY FOLLOW UP:
Re: Question for item #270113583268 - LIZZIE JOHN SARAH BORDEN FAMILY BIBLE 1873 TINTYPE PICS

Thank you for your quick response. Maybe the Fall River Historical Society could help you with the authentication of your Bible belonging to the Borden family of 92 2nd St.

I am a student of the Borden murder case and found your offering quite intriguing. However, some of the names (and pictures) you mention in the description are quite unfamiliar and other names which I would think would be in that group are missing.

Thank you again for your response and I do wish you the best of luck in finding a buyer for the item you offer.

Tracy

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:11 pm

I haven't looked at the sale link.
But the name Pettey rang a chord.

In the 1870 census, George A. Pettey, age 31, retired grocer and his wife Lydia, age 32, lived at what was then numbered #262 Second Street. THat is the actual Borden house.

The Pettey people lived there with Charles Trafton and his wife Susan.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:15 pm

ANOTHER REPLY FROM THE SELLER:
Re: Question for item #270113583268 - LIZZIE JOHN SARAH BORDEN FAMILY BIBLE 1...
Any information that you have collected would be very helpful -- I have been trying to locate different family members photos but have had a very hard time. It seem sthat there were not many photos of the immediate family. I am just going off of the information that I received when i purchased. Thanks David

MY FOLLOW UP:
David,

Check this website with THE most accurate information, resources, etc.,:
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/LizzieABorden.htm

If you truly want to find out about the Borden family, that website is the best place to start. I believe if the person you got the Bible from told you it was from the Borden family of murder case infamy, that they are misinformed...at least it appears that way at this time. Check out some of the names and pictures on the website, you will see what I mean.

Sometimes people may think they have something with a connection to THE Lizzie Borden, and believe they have come across a way to turn an exciting find into a few bucks. Unfortunately, sometimes "the stories from grandma" don't pan out as hoped. I would suggest that you contact the Fall River Historical society, as they may be able to answer questions about who worked for Lizzie and a description of and what happened to the (her) family Bible.

Good luck,
Tracy

I now get the feeling that he is not being knowingly deceptive, but is just misinformed.

Tracy...

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:07 am

It may be dawning on the poor guy that what he has is not from our Lizzie's family. He is probably thinking, "How much did I pay for this?"

Hopefully he will get the facts on it. Hmmm... maybe it came from the Pettey family? Did they know the Bordens?

Maybe Shelley can shed some additional light on it.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:01 pm

The Petteys moved out when the Bordens moved in. Then Trafton remained for a bit until, as Lizzie said, his own house was ready.
Pettey is in this case and saw the crime scene. He is in The Witness Statements page 21. Check the Trial, he is around page 644.
Knowlton Papers:

"PETTEY, GEORGE AMBROSE 1839 - 1906: born in Tiverton, Rhode Island, son of Jireh Bennett and Sarah (Church) Pettey. Early in his life, he voyaged on a whaler, returning to his native town to make a living as a farmer. He married Miss Lydia G. Manchester in 1860. From 1869 to 1879, he was employed as a clerk for his father's firm, Wade and Pettey, Grocers, located on Second Street in Fall River, Massachusetts. In his later years, he was employed as a bookkeeper at the Tiverton Dye Works in Tiverton, Rhode Island. Following his retirement, he died in Fall River. A resident of 66 (later 92) Second Street prior to Andrew J. Borden's purchase of that property, he was in the vicinity of that address on August 4, 1892. He was admitted into the Borden house following the murders and testified as to his observations there."

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:25 am

So, it look's to me like the family bible belonged to the Pettey family? Maybe the seller has a reasonably good find after all. Maybe Lizzie's name was put in because they sold the house to Andrew? Were the Petteys and Bordens friends? Could that Pettey bible have been left behind and found by the Bordens and kept?

Interesting. Maybe the seller will give Tracy more info.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:36 pm

I did finally look at the sale.
Don't his Petteys die before ours do?
Someone would have to do a genealogical search on the Pettey family to get from this sellers Pettey to our George.