Two Good Prices on Two Books

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augusta
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Two Good Prices on Two Books

Post by augusta »

"Yesterday in Old Fall River" by Hoffman is being sold on eBay now, and for the next 18 days, for $12.07 + $3.50 s/h. That's a good price, considering most copies now go for over the original $17 selling price. This book is a "must have" for Borden book collectors.

"The Hands of Time" by Muriel Arnold is selling for $10, $4 s/h. This book is not a 'must have' for Borden book collectors. But if you've been interested in reading it, it beats the usual $20 cover price. Three days left on it.

One volume of "Victorian Vistas" is being sold on eBay (there are two listings). It is not the one with Lizzie Borden in it. And it is only one volume - not the set of three. I think they are asking $125 in both cases. I urge Forum members to stick together on this over-priced volume and try to resist purchasing it. If we don't buy, they can't over-inflate their prices. Five or so years ago, the set of three was selling for $144 all over.
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xyjw
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Post by xyjw »

Is the Victorian Vistas the series by Phillip Sylvia that is on Amazon? I would maybe buy it at Amazon when I get the extra money, would this be the correct series to buy? It at least sounds very good. The books are not in a set but I could buy the individual volumes.
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Kat
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Post by Kat »

It sounds like the "Silvia Vistas."
Stef had me keeping our copies of the three volumes, for years, but I rarely opened them. They seemed to be a lot of partial articles, and on stories Silvia, who I guess collected them, found interesting. Lots of sports-based stories-- baseball and bike riding as I recall? Mill stories, things like that? Anyone have further info?
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Harry
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Post by Harry »

If you are thinking of buying them for information on the Borden case - DON'T. Volume 2 has a few pages but nothing new. Save your money.

As Kat says lots on the textile mills and the labor unions and sports. Also on the churches, schools, etc.

A great many photos but they are not labeled beneath the photo. You have to keep going back and forth to the index to find their description. That becomes very annoying.
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augusta
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Post by augusta »

I agree that the 'Victorian Vistas' are not anything real special. But if you like old newspaper articles, it makes for interesting reading. But as Kat points out, the articles are probably not complete. I don't even know if they are re-worded by the author/editor. There's a lot of photos, tho. And they gave me a feeling more of what it was like in Fall River then.

I think the attraction to 'Victorian Vistas' is that if you have all three, you have a collectible set, which is good if you collect Borden books.
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xyjw
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Post by xyjw »

Thank You Harry and Augusta. I am not sure if I should get them, maybe the first volume would be the best for me. I am interested in books about southeastern Mass. in Lizzies time. I especially like a lot of pictures. Thank You for your input.
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Post by mbhenty »

:smile:

Yes, living in fall river I own all three copies of Silvia's books, Victorian Vistas.

I purchased them one at a time, as they were published.

Of course, unless you are a serious book collector, or a proud fall river resident, which there are very few, I would pass them up.......unless you can pick up a copy for 25 bucks or less.

As mentioned above, there are many neat photos from the period and stories to go along with them.

The three volumes cover
1865-1885 Vol.I
1886-1901 Vol.II
1901-1911 Vol.III

The most expensive copy to find is Vol.I

Volume II is probably the most interesting and twice as thick as Volume I.

If you only want to own one volume, volume II deals with Lizzie's time line, that is, the Victorian era 6 years before the murders and 7 years after.

Until recently Vol.III was relatively easy to find and inexpensive.

Vol.II is the one with Lizzie in it. Probably around 30 pages or so. The first is the thinest volume, with the third volume the thickest. Volume one is usually the most expensive one, with dealers asking between 100 and 200. About 3 or 4 years ago my buddy Don, a Newport book dealer, sold a 3 volume set on ebay for 300.

I have seen 2 sets on ebay, both for 300 dollars.

Volume III can still be had for 30 to 40 dollars.

You may find Volume II for 60 to 100 dollars.

Off course these prices mean nothing when it comes to ebay. Tuning in at the right time may gain you a copy of volume II for 25 or 30 bucks.

So, I would take my time and wait to find one there. Make sure its a copy in very good condition. And remember, collectors always insist on the dust jacket being present and in very good condition. You can always sell it again.

But to sum up---unless you are a serious fall river collector I would pass up Victorian Vistas.




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Post by mbhenty »

:smile:

Yes, here's an example of one of the photos in Volume II.

This is the old Notre Dame Church on Bassett Street up in the French East End. The photo is of the wood church the day after it burnt down. Bassett street was changed to Saint Joseph Street some time later.

The church burnt down a year after the Borden murders. Notice all the neighborhood kids standing on the front steps of the burnt structure.

It was rebuilt the next block over, facing what was called Ashton Street, named Notre Dame Street today.

Less than 90 years after the first church burnt down, it would burn down once again. (1982) Very sad. I was there to witness the towers fall.

It's a neat photo of a very modest wood structure. Later a much more majestic building was constructed.
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mbhenty
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Post by mbhenty »

:smile:

Yes, below is what Notre Dame Church in fall river looks like today.
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xyjw
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Post by xyjw »

Thank You for the review MBH, it is very helpful. I don't like to buy a book totally "sight unseen". Most books I buy I have borrowed from the library or had a chance to see someone elses. Volume II is sounding like a possibility. I like to write stories about the southeastern MA. and Rhode Island areas and like to have pictures and stories for reference purposes. It sounds like it would be useful for this, I also enjoy books with old photographs. That new Notre Dame Church doesn't have any character. Almost like no one put a single thought into the new building, they just slapped it up. It is probably a nice building but it *looks* structurally unsound. Thanks for the help.
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Post by augusta »

I'm sure mb is correct - he's a respected book collector (at least I think so). I've never seen Volume II for sale by itself at all, and I'm really surprised at the low prices he names. I'd think those would be really lucky finds. I'd think that second volume would be the most sought after because it has Lizzie in it.

If you live near Fall River or plan to go there, the archives at the Fall River Historical Museum has the books (they have a copy of all Lizzie books and I think all or almost all Fall River books). You could look at them before making the purchase. Or possibly your library, or maybe you could borrow them thru an inter-library loan.

One book I don't think you have to see before you buy is Judith Boss's "Fall River - A Pictorial History", c 1982, The Donning Company, Norfolk, Virginia. This book has plenty of really fabulous photos. The text is broken up into eight chapters, and is not tedious nor lengthy. It's a book the Fall River Historical Society recommends. I was very lucky and got mine about 5 years ago on eBay for like $50, and it's a signed copy. (No dust jacket, but I don't care about those. I buy my books to read, and they get dragged around and put under my bed and left in my car. Dust jackets don't survive with me.)
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Post by mbhenty »

:smile:

Yes Augusta, I have low balled the prices a bit on volume II to discourage xyjw from making an unnecessary purchase........though it's very possible to find such prices on ebay. Right now there are 3 copies of volume I on ebay, one selling for 95 dollars, with a ratty DJ. And, there is a volume II without DJ for 40 dollars.

In the past I have seen several copies of volume II on ebay with and without DJ. Don't remember just how much they sold for.

As of two or three years ago, I remember the FRHS having 12 or 15 copies of volume III on the shelf, new, probably selling for cover price. They had been there for many years. Perhaps they still have some left.

I always check ebay. If I find any good deals I will post them here.

Yes, Boss's book is an excellent consideration. A pictorial history with lots of old photos.

An old girlfriend of mine had a copy on her shelf. I use to thumb through it every once in a while. When she use to see me see would always say, " You can have that if you like". I felt guilty taking it since I had my own copy. Now, some other guy sits there reading it. I know where she keeps her key. I should go there and get it. :lol: :oops: :oops: :oops:

FAll River a Pictorial History was published without a Dust Jacket.

And yes, I am respected. Stop at any corner in fall river at 2 in the morning and ask any girl you like. She'll tell you...... :roll:


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augusta
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Post by augusta »

:grin: Enjoyed your post, mb.

So Judith Boss's book never had a dust jacket! That's great! The only ones that survive around me are library editions where you couldn't get them off if you tried - or if the glue dries out.

That's a great idea - to call the Historical Society. They would probably give you a fair price, but perhaps not a bargain basement price.

Wow - there's quite a difference if you don't have a dust jacket, huh? I did have a dust jacket on my copy of "The Knowlton Papers", but it's, um, gone. Plus I highlited some parts when I was using it for some research. I was so lucky. I got mine for $25 from a man who contacted me on the Forum. He was selling a copy on Half.com. That's when they were going for $50 and were just starting to get hard to find.

I guess you have to watch eBay and bookstores online. Abe Books.com is good. Amazon has a lot of booksellers on there, but on stuff like that they're usually over-priced. Alibris.com is good. Doesn't cost anything to check. :smile:
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Post by xyjw »

The Pictorial History of Fall River also sounds very good. I can get it through Amazon. Is there any suggested reading list here on the site for those of us who like to research accurately and write Borden era stories?
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Post by Kat »

Try the website Bibliography at
www.lizzieandrewborden.com

Also have you tried all the downloadable books at Keeley Library online? They also have LOTS of news articles about Fall River's past with news photos as well.
Just Google:
Keeley Library

Boss is what I thought of too- better than the Vistas I think, tho she is not 100% correct in her captions.
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xyjw
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Post by xyjw »

Thanks Kat! I had no idea about Keeley Library or the list on this site. I have gone to the Resources section and it is very helpful, but there is nothing like actual books.
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Post by mbhenty »

:smile:

Yes, it is true. There is nothing like having the real thing, hardcover book in one's hand. I prefer it over this screen any day. Perhaps that says something about my age?

But to attain information in this medium, book form, can be very pricey. Especially books of local interests which are printed in small numbers.

Here are a "meat and potato", the mainstays on the history of fall river.

The small green volume below is Fenner's History of Fall River. This copy was published in 1911. It deals with early history up to 1911. Concise, it totals just over 100 pages.

The three volumes under it are THE PHILLIPS HISTORY OF FALL RIVER. There are 3 volumes, or "Fascicles" as they are referred to, having been printed in parts, with volumes in 1944, 45 and 46.

ARTHUR SHERMAN PHILLIPS was part of the Dream Team on the Lizzie Borden case. Out of law school for only a year, he became the workhorse, go for boy, keeper of information and evidence of the law firm of Morton and Jennings. Interesting fellow, having been born 5 years after lizzies' birth.

When found, Phillips History of Fall River sells for 300 to 350. It is a fairly rare title to find.

In the other photo is a book called Fall River and its Industries. The first publication of this book was in 1877. It covers a great deal of mill operations and factory history in Fall River, with a generous amount of genealogy, especially on the Bordens, Chase, Durfees and Davols. The Fall River Historical Society reprinted this book. It was selling for around 40 dollars. Not sure whether they have any left.

The ring bound book below is really a little treasure. It is the History of Fall River centered around the Quequechan River and the factories and Industries that grew around it. Written by Alfred Lima. It was published and funded by a grant from the Mass Environmental Trust. Since it was published thru a grant there was a low number published, and I believe they sold for around 5 dollars. What a deal. Even though it was published just 2 or 3 years ago, (copyR 2007) it is, as of now, a scarce or even rare little item.

All these book deal very, very little with life in fall river for the common man. Very little to nothing about life on the street. That is one of the healthy aspects of Victorian Vistas. Much of it deals with life in fall river. How the rich and common man lived. Like the story of the guy who ran over a small boy. And then later that night was kind enough to visit the little boy and give him a shinny dollar. (If I remember the story correctly.) Or the fellow who got his hair caught in the machinery and propelled him to the ceiling ripping off his scalp. It goes on to report that, "the man is home resting comfortably, but is not expected to live."

I predict that Parallel lives will be a mini Victorian Vistas. One with Lizzie Borden in as the main character but also including the lives of the common worker and how they lived side-by-side........Parallel Lives.
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Post by augusta »

Someone on eBay was/is selling a CD called "Fall River Historic Book Collection", which contains 8 books that might have been downloaded online. And you can print an individual page out easily. I thought the CD was well worth the price. (It wasn't that much.)

I would not recommend "Lizzie" by Frank Spiering. He tells outright lies that we have exposed in the recent past.

I would not recommend "Lizzie Borden by Daylight" by Victoria Lincoln. It's supposed to be non-fiction, but there is plenty of fictionalization in it.

I am surprised Judith Boss's book is on Amazon. That's been sold out for a long time, unless you found they reprinted it or got very lucky.

Of course, L. Rebello's "Lizzie Borden - Past & Present" is like the Bible of Lizzie. It's out of print, and tho it originally cost $50, sellers are often asking a lot.
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