Victorian Shoes

[Nadzieja]

I finished Lizzie's inquest and had a question about shoes. In the inquest Pg 69 (26) Mr. Borden took off his shoes & put on his slippers. When I see his picture they look like shoes to me, but I don't know what slippers back then actually looked like. Also on page 87 (44) they asked Lizzie what kind of shoes did she have on that day, her answer was a pair of ties. Asked the color she said black. Does anyone have any idea of what these could possibly have looked like? Its just a curiousity that I have because my dad worked many years in a shoe factory, but also had the knowledge to make them from raw materials.

[Nadzieja]

I also found another reference to her shoes. Her inquest pg 90 (47) was asked if she gave her shoes and stockngs to the officer & asked if sher remembered where she took them off. She said she wore them ever after that, all around the house Friday and all day Thrusday, and all day Friday And Saturday until I put on my shoes for the street. What are the "shoes for the street". Are these special to be worn outside only? Again any idea of what they possibly looked like? Thanks

[Shelley]

Yes, those famous Congress boots of Mr. Borden have been of great interest. Congress boots were a comfy sort of slipon shoe with elastic inserts at the sides -no ties, no bending over- sort of the loafer of the 1890s. They are however, not actually house slippers. They also came in women's styles.
Lizzie states she helped him off with his shoes. As no carpet slippers or house slippers (which were often made of heavy felt) were mentioned at the scene of the crime, we might assume she was in error.

The shoes Lizzie gave to the police were stout tie lace Oxfords- a shoe for doing work about the house and garden, not a "dressy" shoe for wearing downtown or to a social function. Oxfords were great walking shoes, however, and it tells us something about Lizzie, that she was willing to forsake comfort for fashion when she would be seen downstreet!
This is the best photo I have seen of Congress boots. Sometimes called Congress Gaiters, this style was described as a "gentleman's shoe" in the Civil War era. They are still made.

[Kat]

In the crime scene photo of Andrew on the couch, his shoes seem very old and scuffed. George Allen said Andrew's ankles were too small for the shoes.

Trial
Allen
438
Q. Will you take that photograph and tell me if you noticed anything else?
A. I noticed the shoes were on, and how small the ankles was for the shoes.

Phil Harrington had an unusual comment at the trial about Andrew's shoes as well:
558
Q. Yes. And you discovered Mr. Borden's body there?
A. Yes, sir; on a sofa which rested on the north side of the house was the form of a man partially covered with a sheet, going from the head, the west end of the lounge, down a little below the knees. Below that black pants and a pair of laced shoes.
..........

Q. You said, speaking of Mr. Borden as he was laid upon the sofa---did he have slippers on?
A. No, sir.

Q. What kind of boots did he have on?
A. He had a laced shoe.

Q. Do you mean a low shoe?
A. No, sir.

Page 578

Q. A laced high shoe?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You are pretty certain about that?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. It was not a congress boot?
A. No, sir.

Q. You know what I mean?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You are certain about that. Have you ever seen the photograph of the body as it is presented here?
A. Not the photograph, no, sir.

Q. (Showing photograph to witness). Will you look at those shoes---your eyes are better than mine, but will you kindly tell us whether those are a correct representation?
A. Not as they impressed me, sir.

Q. Then, as you recall it, this is not correct?
A. As I recall it.

Q. Then seeing this, having this to refresh your recollection, do you change your statement?
A. No, sir.

Q. You leave it that he had on laced boots?
A. My impression was laced boots.

(Photograph shown to the jury).

This is inexplicable and confusing.
Also, for more confusion, Mr. Pettee said "A. Well, I noticed the position that he laid in. He was lying on his right side, with the left side exposed. His feet was crossed, and one of them rested on the floor. I noticed the condition of his head,---the condition of the blood that came from it." (Trial646)
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I've argued that Abbie would not have let Andrew Borden walk downstreet to the bank and the post office with such old and scuffed boots on. Also, it's possible that men who are shaved in barber shops also spring for a shoe shine. It's not impossible that his boots were old and comfortable and that he wore them only at home, like slippers. According to Bridget, he did go upstairs after he came home. He could have changed shoes then.

In the photo where Andrew is lying barechested and stitched on the autopsy board in the sitting room, there seems to be a sad and forlorn boot with what looks like a sock draped over it, by the sofa, on the floor, near the door to the kitchen.
To me, that is a pitiful sight- more so than the body. The body is shocking, but the discarded boot is a remnant of a life recently snuffed out.

[Shelley]

That's a good point about his changing into comfy old house shoes. Yes, he could easily have done that on his trip upstairs as he did put his cardigan "reefer" on- maybe that was part of his regime daily. Too bad nobody asked Lizzie if his old congress slipons were what she meant by "slippers".

[Nadzieja]

That was quite a picture of he shoes. They look brand new. Do you know who makes these? Phil Harringtons testimony really is surprising in that he is positive they were tie on shoes. Tie on shoes look nothing like the Congress boot. He could have changed them and he probably did keeping them only to walk downtown. From what I understand of the times (please correct me if I am under a wrong impression), is that you had special clothes to go out in public but once you got home you changed into the clothes & shoes that you only wore at home. Was this just to keep up appearances of affluence?

[Shelley]

I tried a close up of Andrew's feet


These sure look like Congress boots or shoes. The large photo several posts above is from a company which makes vintage -looking shoes for Civil War re-enactments. Well, it is possible when Andrew got home, he kept his house shoes downstairs somewhere and Lizzie helped him change into them, then he took his town shoes upstairs to his closet. If he had changed into his congress shoes upstairs, then that would also explain why no other shoes were found downstairs. Too bad more was not asked about these shoes, because Lizzie saying she helped her father on with his slippers has always made Lizzie look pretty bad because we don't know what she meant by slippers and the shoes Andrew is wearing look like shoes, not slippers..

I have a feeling Mr. Borden was not a fashion plate- when you have that much cash and real estate, you can afford not to worry what people think. These may have been the shoes he wore downtown. At nearly 70 comfort may have taken precedence over style.

Generally speaking, yes, most people who cared about such things went to some extra trouble in appearance if they were going downtown. Bridget said Lizzie wore the Bedford cord some mornings around the house. The dress she gave police was clearly not a housedress of cotton calico, but rather a dressier bengaline suitable for social calls, shopping and making an impression. From all we know of Lizzie, I would say she did care about neatness, style and looking presentable to the standards of that era, where people often judged a person by appearance-and dress was important. I get the impression Uncle John and Andrew were not Beau Brummels!

[Kat]

That's a good question about people changing before they went out.
Lizzie herself mentions that she asked Abbie if she would change her clothes before she left, at her inquest:
Q. Never mind about yesterday. Tell me all the talk you had with your mother when you came down in the morning?
A. She asked me how I felt. I said I felt better, but did not want any breakfast. She said what kind of meat did I want for dinner. I said I did not want any. She said she was going out, somebody was sick, and she would get the dinner, get the meat, order the meat. And I think she said something about the weather being hotter, or something; and I don't remember that she said anything else. I said to her: "Won't you change your dress before you go out?" She had on an old one. She said: "No, this is good enough." That is all I can remember.

[Kat]

Yes it makes more sense, and answers a question as to Lizzie's veracity, to have Andrew keep his old comfortable boots downstairs as slippers and keep his going out shoes upstairs. That's if those old-looking boots were his house shoes. Officer Allen did say Andrew's ankles were too small for the boots, in his impression. That might mean recent weight loss- and an older shoe.
That would leave Phil Harrington as the one who was not being observant- claiming the picture was wrong and not he!

Thanks for the photo of Congress boots, Shell- and for the close-up.
Does anyone have the photo from Shots In The Dark? That is a very clear view.

Edit:

Here is a scan at 300 of Andrew on the couch from Shots In The Dark: Hope this works-- is this any better?

[Kat]

Here is a cut out of an object on the floor in the sitting room, between the sofa and the kitchen door, that appears to be the back of Andrew's boot with sock on top. Stefani and one at the FRHS thought it was that- I was never sure. What do you guys think?

This picture is after Andrew's autopsy in the sitting room, and is a detail from Shots In The Dark.

[twinsrwe]

It sure appears to be the back of Andrew's boot with sock on top to me, Kat. What else could it possibly be?

[Shelley]

Yes- looks like one of the Congress shoes to me too. It would appear the body was stripped for examination, and washing later so of course the shoes and socks were removed. It 's a sad little old shoe and brings home the tragedy of the crime.

Well, I have always kept a "scoreboard" of Looks Bad for Lizzie/ Looks Good for Lizzie. The thought that maybe she WAS telling the truth about helping him on with his slippers, and these old slip-on Congress boots were his house shoes now puts one more point in the Looks Good for Lizzie column. I wonder why Bridget did not see this shoe-changing going on? Oh the questions we could ask and they should have asked!

[Tina-Kate]

Looks good for Lizzie only if she was telling the truth. Like Shelley says, Bridget did not testify to any shoe changing.

In fact, at this point, Bridget's testimony versus Lizzie's is markedly different.

Lizzie implies more time spent with her father, fussing over him, etc. & supposedly in the sitting room.

Bridget recalls a short, rather tension filled exchange in the dining room in which Lizzie merely asks for mail, he sez "None for you" & asks where Abby is.

I tend to vote for Bridget.

[Shelley]

Yeah, I do too! Hiram Harrington found all that daughterly tenderness hard to swallow too. Sort of out of character. What did just hit me was IF Lizzie was lying about it all, all the things she said she did for her father- it sure shows a conniving mind that knew what to say because she knew what the police would want to hear and how her tale would play well on a jury! Oooooh. Anybody that clever and wily is sure capable of MORE.

[shakiboo]

Unless Lizzie WAS helping her father While they were having any of the disscussion that Bridget heard, she didn't see them, only partially heard them.

[Shelley]

That's true, if Bridget was in the diningroom finishing up the windows, she may have heard, but not seen what Lizzie was doing as far as her ministering to her ill father. Okay, now my point goes back into Good For Lizzie column

[Tina-Kate]

Now, if only I had stuff here to quote verbatim when I need it.

No, Bridget is very specific about her movements & those of Lizzie & Andrew (altho she is not sure where Lizzie goes part of the time). B was still cleaning the windows in the sitting room when Lizzie asked her father re the mail, etc & they were in the dining room at the time.

Lizzie, in her Inquest testimony indicates all this helping of her father went on in the sitting room.

I believe this contributed to Knowlton getting so exasperated while Lizzie was giving her testimony & he said something along the lines of, "Now Miss Borden, I have been trying to get an accurate account of that morning from you and Miss Sullivan & I have failed to do so!"

Bridget did not hear all that was said, but from the sounds of it the exchange was short. Andrew went about looking after himself, going up to his room & coming back down again. As Andrew finally retired to the sitting room, that is when Bridget took her gear into the dining room. Lizzie then comes in to go thru to the kitchen for her ironing board, sets it up & then comes the conversation re asking Bridget to lock the doors if she's going out. Sounds as tho Lizzie simply ignores Andrew after telling him Abby went out.

According to Bridget, Lizzie is never in the sitting room with her father.

[Angel]

A lot of things have been accepted as fact, such as believing Bridget when she said she heard certain things, or that she didn't hear any body falling or cries. For all we know, she may have simply said those things to protect herself or Lizzie. She could have very easily heard noises associated with the murders, but chose, for one reason or another that we'll never know, to deny that. It would certainly explain why everyone else who has tried to recreate the body falling in the house has heard something. Maybe what she wanted to tell somebody (on what she considered her deathbed) was about the noises she did hear.

[Nadzieja]

Two things hit me while reading the posts. first of all I really don't see Lizzie as the type of person that would fuss over Andrew that much. It does seem a bit out of character. The second being Bridget--she knows who is going to have the pull here, it will be the Borden family. They are rich and she is a servant. Being that way I'm sure she would have said anything Lizzie wanted her to or she, by instinct knew that she better stick up for her employers because they could make her life very miserable not only there but could put a black mark on her name in the entire town. Just the fact she had no family in the area, would have been scary enough and she only had herself to rely on. In other words she had to survive at all costs. Now about the shoes: My dad made shoes way back when and he always said if you bought a good pair of leather shoes with a leather sole they could last for years. As long as the leather was kept polished on the top & in good repair the leather soles could always be replaced. The shoe picture of him on the couch, those look like VERY old pair of Congress boots. Being cheap Andrew probably polished them and finally the tops got too old & thin to have repaired again, but good enough just to wear around the house. To me the other picture definitley looks like a shoe with sock on top. The shape of the back and sure looks like a heel so I would say they put it there when they were cleaning his body. That section of picture alone just speaks of sadness and tradgedy. I still have a hard time imagining that these postmortem duties were performed in the house. how would you ever get that image out of your mind if you continued live there?

[Shelley]

One thing I have repeated hundreds of times in the house- and that is the sound of a 200 pound body falling in the guest room. From a near vertical starting point, it can be heard in the sitting room, the parlor, the front hall- but not in the kitchen, diningroom, and certainly not at all outside on the south end of the house with or without the windows being open. And these experiments were done with guests being silent and listening intently with all the windows closed and usually at night when traffic is slow on the road in front. Conditions on the 4th would have been different as to deliberately listening observers and the noise on the street.

Of course we will never know if Abby was kneeling, bending over, straight up, leaning on the bed, or other scenarios when she finally fell on her face. The autopsy cites contusions on the forehead and nose which would indicate a frontal final impact with the floor of some force, or else the killer banging the head, or holding the head by the hair during the attack and repeatedly slamming it into the carpet during the violent attack. Grisly thought.

[Kat]

According to Bridget, Lizzie is never in the sitting room with her father.

--partial TinaKate

And Lizzie said she did not have that talk with her father in the dining room.

Also, it is correct that Bridget diverges here in testimony, but Lizzie claims she did not see- or notice- Bridget washing any windows and that she only *knew* Bridget washed the outside windows because Bridget told her she did.

Also, Lizzie says Andrew did not go upstairs when he returned- that also contradicts Bridget.
I don't see how I personally can choose which girl is being truthful- it's a mystery. If we had Bridget's inquest information that might help of course!

Lizzie
Inquest
Q. When did you first see him?
A. I went into the sitting room, and he was there; I don't know whether he had been in the dining room before or not.
Q. What made you go into the sitting room?
A. Because I wanted to ask him a question.
Q. What question?
A. Whether there was any mail for me.
Q. Did you not ask him that question in the dining room?
A. No sir, I think not.
Q. Was he not in the dining room sitting down?
A. I don't remember his being in the dining room sitting down.
Q. At that time was not Maggie washing the windows in the sitting room?
A. I thought I asked him for the mail in the sitting room; I am not sure.
Q. Was not the reason he went in the dining room because she was in the sitting room washing windows?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did he not go up stairs to his own room before he sat down in the sitting room?
A. I did not see him go.
Q. He had the key to his room down there?
A. I don't know whether he had it; it was kept on the shelf.
Q. Don’t you remember he took the key and went into his own room and then came back?
85 (42)
A. No, sir.
Q. You don’t remember anything of that kind?
A. No, sir; I do not think he did go up stairs either.
Q. You will swear he did not?
A. I did not see him.
Q. You swear you did not see him?
A. Yes, sir.

[Shelley]

I thought the key was kept on the mantel- maybe shelf was the same thing. I would think she would say mantel though.

[Allen]

To my mind there is not doubt that the whole scenario of Lizzie helping Andrew on with his slippers is a fabrication. No matter how sick Andrew was, he wasn't exactly a feeble old man who needed help on and off with his shoes in my opinion. He didn't even want Dr. Bowen coming over to check on him when he was ill. He claimed he was "alright". I don't think he would've let Lizzie fuss over him that way. I also do not believe for one instant that Lizzie would've fussed over him in this manner to begin with. It just seems totally out of character. The whole story just seems totally out of character for both of them. But since nobody tried to make it clear whether or not those old congress boots were his house shoes or his street shoes, the question was never directly asked, that can only be in the realm of speculation.

[Tina-Kate]

I don't see how I personally can choose which girl is being truthful- it's a mystery. If we had Bridget's inquest information that might help of course!

(partial Kat)

Kat, are you being Devil's Advocate?

We do have Bridget's prelim & trial, which are consistent. (I do not recall where, but there was someone along the road & supposedly in the know who said B's missing inquest testimony was almost identical to that she gave in prelim?)

B was consistent, whereas Lizzie is all over the place, even in her own sole testimony. When caught out, she claims she's confused, can't remember, etc. In court, they used the excuse of being under the influence of morphine.

In Lizzie's inquest, she sez, "He had laid down on the living room lounge, taken off his shoes and put on his slippers and taken off his coat and put on the reefer. I asked him if he wanted the window left that way."

Yet, Hiram Harrington (from interview published in The Fall River Herald) said Lizzie told him, "She was very solicitous concerning him, and assisted him to remove his coat & put on his dressing gown; asked concernedly how he felt...helped him to get a comfortable reclining position on the lounge, and asked him if he did not wish the blinds closed to keep out the sun...pressed him to allow her to place an afghan over him...asked him tenderly several times if he was perfectly comfortable...All these things showed a solicitude and a thoughtfulness that I never had heard was a part of her nature or custom before. She described these little acts of courtesy minutely."

So, we have Lizzie telling Hiram she was even more attentive than she claims with Knowlton at her inquest. At inquest, Lizzie has Andrew more or less taking care of himself & she merely asks him about the window.

Lizzie contradicts herself over & over. Stories Lizzie told different people about the same thing vary. Bridget rarely wavers.

That's why I trust Bridget's word over Lizzie's.

[Shelley]

Okay- now I have moved my point into Looks Bad for Lizzie again

[Harry]

We do have Bridget's prelim & trial, which are consistent. (I do not recall where, but there was someone along the road & supposedly in the know who said B's missing inquest testimony was almost identical to that she gave in prelim?)

(Partial by Tina-Kate)

That was said by Knowlton in a letter dated 5/5/1893 to Pillsbury. See the Knowlton papers, HK172, p176:

"... They also want Bridget Sullivan's testimony at the inquest. We
declined to give it to them before the indictment, but I see no objection
to giving it to them now. It is almost identical with her story as told before
Judge Blaisdell, and will do us no harm. What do you think? ..."

Not to divert the subject of the thread but it also shows that the prosecution deliberately withheld Bridget's Inquest testimony from the defense. Adams had asked for it previously and Knowlton and Pillsbury played dumb.

[doug65oh]

Harry, if there had been no indictment - I'm guessing you're talking about the grand jury findings ca. late 1892 that got the ball rolling more or less - would the defense team have needed (or been entitled to) that testimony? Know what I mean? Had the grand jury failed to return the true bill..shebang, we're done. The government could reindict, but.. I'm probably chasing the wrong squirrel here, but thinking of circumstances that might have affected the reciprocal discovery rules.

[Harry]

Jennings had asked Knowlton for it. Knowlton referred Jennings to Pillsbury. Adams acting on behalf of Jennings asks Pillsbury for it. Pillsbury said he never saw it and in effect bounces Adams back to Knowlton saying he is going to write Knowlton about it. This is all about May 17th less than 3 weeks before the trial. Lizzie had long since been indicted. Knowlton's letter to Pillsbury makes it quite clear that they had it all along.

I know of no time limits on discovery and if the same rules governing it were in effect then as now the defense team was entitled to it. Lizzie's Inquest testimony was not only read at the Preliminary but published in the newspaper.

However, this thread should return to its subject.

[diana]

Oh good. I'm glad someone noticed that Lizzie never testified to helping Andrew with his shoes. That was from a purported interview with Hiram Harrington. And I'm afraid that I'm one who is very leery of the veracity of newspaper reports -- then, and now, actually.

If I recall correctly it was quite a long interview and one reporter was surprised at how much Harrington learned during a three or four minute visit. I'm surprised Lizzie gave him an audience at all -- after all, he was the relative she pointed the finger at during her testimony.
"Q. Beside that do you know of anybody that your father had bad feelings toward, or who had bad feelings toward your father?
A. I know of one man that has not been friendly with him; they have not been friendly for years.
Q. Who?
A. Mr. Hiram C. Harrington."


And although Knowlton avers Bridget's first testimony was essentially the same as her Preliminary statements, I think the defense did their best to show that Bridget's Inquest testimony did differ from what she said at the trial, especially with regard to the relationship between Lizzie and her stepmother.

She is asked if she remembers testifying at the inquest:
"Q. Did you answer this, "Did you know of any trouble between Miss Lizzie and her mother?" and say "No, sir, never a word in my presence"?
A. No, sir, I never heard them talking between them.
Q. And "they were talking pleasantly that Thursday morning in the sitting-room.
A. Yes, sir."
Q. That is so, is it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You said, "I never heard a word that I could say was between the two."
A. No, sir, I never heard anything between them.
Q. You said "They seemed to get along congenially"?
A. Yes, sir, for all I saw.
Q. Is that so?
A. Yes, sir. "

Also there's this:

"MISS ANNIE M. WHITE, Recalled.
Q. Did you attend the inquest at Fall River in this case that is now pending?
A. I did.
Q. And you there took the testimony as given by the different witnesses.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were present when Bridget Sullivan testified?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And took her testimony?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I am permitted to show you the printed copy so that you need not trouble yourself about your notes. Mr. Knowlton kindly consents to that. I will refer to page 19. I want particularly to ascertain whether Bridget testified that Miss Lizzie was crying at the time she stood at the screen door? I ask you to read what is marked between the pencil lines. The questions were put by Mr. Knowlton.
A. (Witness reading):
"Q. When she hollered, she said what?
A. She says, 'Maggie, come down!' I knew of course something was the matter by the holler she put on her. I says, 'What is the matter?'
Q. What was said then?
A. She says, 'come down quick. Father is dead.' She was leaning against the screen door.
Q. Was the screen door open then?
A. I don't know, I could not say. She was leaning against the inside door that locks, the large door.
Q. Not the screen door but the regular door?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did she seem?
A. She seemed to be excited more than I ever saw her.
Q. Was she crying?
A. Yes, she was crying." (Trial, 1593+)

This is of course totally contradicts Bridget's later testimony:
"Q. You came down stairs and found her standing at the wooden door leaning up against that?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now what was she doing?
A. She wasn't doing nothing.
Q. Was she excited?
A. She seemed excited to me more than I ever seen her before, but not crying.
Q. What do you say?
A. Yes, sir; she seemed excited to me more than I ever saw her before.
Q. Was she crying?
A. No, sir.
Q. Are you right about that?
A. Yes, sir; I am.
Q. Have you ever said differently about it?
A. No, sir; I never said no different." (Trial, 340)

Initially Bridget's loyalty may have been to the Borden family -- but I think by the time the trial rolled around and the police department and the prosecution covered her bail and provided her with housing and employment, Miss Sullivan's loyalty had shifted.

[Shelley]

That's a good point about Bridget's loyalty- she had other protectors by then. And some security. The poor and disadvantaged at the time must have had to look out for themselves and utilize every possible survival technique at hand. I wonder if she meant Lizzie was crying out- like yelling, or sobbing with shock and grief, the grisly discovery- or fear.
My initial reaction would be to get out of the house and get help asap- crying might come later if I had loved my father.

[Kat]

Wow good stuff you guys!

Bridget did not see Lizzie and Lizzie did not see Bridget most of that morning- according to each.
I think it's possible they got together over what they would say. They could agree to leave it at they neither of them saw each other.

Yes I am looking at both sides. It's not necessarily Devil's Advocate- I really have never made up my mind.
I do agree that as a servant Bridget may have been covering herself in whatever way she could. I do think she grew in confidence the longer she was away from that house before and up until trial.

[Kat]

Speaking of Hiram Harrington: his words at that Interview, and his words on the stand, are so widely different in his manner of speaking, it's hard to believe he was originator of both!
I don't think the interview was wholly invented, but I do think it's possible he was rewritten.

[Tina-Kate]

Thank you Harry, for that Knowlton letter. My memory gets worse & worse.

I wonder how the rumor got started about Lizzie helping Andrew on with his slippers.

Kat---I made you a Devil's AdvoKat anyway...

[Kat]

That's fantastic! Love the halo and my white white hair!

Now, about Bridget...

[Harry]

Hilarious, Tine-Kate! The cartoons get better and better-er.

[Kat]

Here's something weird.
Bowen at inquest, 117:

He lay there still, unrecognizable, his face was cut in such a manner I never should have known who it was. I stepped in a second, looked around the room to see if there was any disturbance. It struck me like a flash to see if there was anything left in the room. Then I went right back again, and told them that their father was dead.

and Bridget, prelim, 74:

Q. Where did you leave the clothes you had ironed Wednesday evening?
A. I put them on the table, folded, and Mr. Borden took a pile, and the girls took the other pile.

Q. When?
A. Wednesday morning.

Q. What girls?
A. Miss Lizzie's and Miss Emma's clothes. I always separated them, and laid them in piles.

Q. You said you separated the piles, and Mr. Borden took one, and the girls took their piles; you do not mean that, because Emma was not there?
A. Miss Lizzie must have taken them then.

Q. They did not take them until Thursday morning?
A. No Sir.
------

By then Emma had been gone since July 21st- I doubt she had any laundry to be done.
This is Bridget page 1:

Q. At the time of the tragedy, Miss Sullivan, Miss Emma, was she at hope? (sic). (home?)
A. No Sir.

Q. How long had she been away, about? I dont care for a day or two.
A. I guess she was two weeks. I can't exactly tell.

Q. She was out of town you understood?
A. That is what I understood.

Q. She had not been in town, so far as you knew, for that time?
A. No Sir.

--I think we need a new topic in LizzieAndrewBorden for the inconsistencies in Bridget's testimony.

[Kat]

It almost sounds like Bowen and Bridget knew Emma had been there, doesn't it?

[Tina-Kate]

Uh oh---shades of Spiering...

Bowen was getting on in years for one (I know how that feels). Several people in testimonies kept getting all the women mixed up.

Bridget, I wonder, was thinking about the norm rather than that occasion.

One of my impressions with Lizzie's inquest is she was talking about other mornings instead of the one in question (perhaps on purpose to find excuses).

Interesting, none the less.

[Tina-Kate]

That's fantastic! Love the halo and my white white hair!

Now, about Bridget...

Come to think of it...looks a bit like those 18th century powdered wigs they used to use in courtrooms, but without the curlicues.

I think they may still wear them in England. I'm quite sure they were still wearing them as late as the 1960s.

[Kat]

If so, may I have a moustache?

Yes I'm thinking of what these characters are saying as being along the lines of what they normally do, rather than specific to that day. I think the Bridget excerpt shows that.
But still these were unusual days, Wednesday and Thursday- so it's odd that neither female can get their story right for such a momentous occasion.

[Tina-Kate]

If so, may I have a moustache?

Too funny---I gave you a slight "Hilliard".

Now this toon reminds me of Donald Sutherland (Keifer's dad---he's Canadian & I'm not too sure how well known in the US).

BTW, I noted recently Rufus B. Hilliard---the B stands for Bartlett---as in pear!

[Kat]

Oh Thank You! I've always wanted a moustache!!
That's great! Thanks again!

[Tina-Kate]

You're welcome...I guess! You're such a good sport. 'Tho I suppose that's not the worst thing I've done to you while tooning.

Now you can say, "I am the Walrus"

[Kat]

I recall you had me sitting on a toilet top smoking a cigarette?

[Tina-Kate]

Hehehe. You said I could toon you any way I wanted as long as I didn't do that in particular. Well, that was irresistable...It turned out pretty funny after all.