With all the discussion about DNA and forensic findings, here's a fascinating window into the analysis of Richard III's death at Bosworth Field. This was shared with me by Irina:
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance ... 7/fulltext
Richard III
Moderator: Adminlizzieborden
- debbiediablo
- Posts: 1467
- Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:42 am
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Deborah
- Location: Upper Midwest
Richard III
DebbieDiablo
*´¨)
¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·'* Even Paranoids Have Enemies
"Everything you want is on the other side of fear."
*´¨)
¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·'* Even Paranoids Have Enemies
"Everything you want is on the other side of fear."
- Curryong
- Posts: 2443
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:46 am
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Rosalind
- Location: Cranbourne, Australia
Re: Richard III
Fascinating stuff, debbie. Thank you and Irina. Medieval chroniclers of Bosworth were admiring of Richard's courage even when weren't supporters of his. Rous wrote 'Let me say the truth to his credit, that he bore himself like a noble soldier and honourably defended himself to his last breath, shouting again and again that he was betrayed, and crying "Treason! Treason! Treason!" (Presumably a comment about Earl Stanley and his men!) Vergil states that 'King Richard alone was killed fighting manfully in the thickest press of his enemies.'
It's odd that Richard was wearing no helmet. Taken off, knocked off perhaps? This certainly allowed a claymore to injure his skull, if not fatally then he wouldn't be doing too much after it! Croyland says that Richard's body was 'found among the slain and many insults were heaped on it'.
It was, as we know, stripped, a halter put around his neck (as happened to condemned criminals) and trussed over a horse. Richard's arms and legs were hanging down both sides and as the journey progressed he was covered with mud and other filth, before arriving at Leicester.
There were no doubt crowds gathered along the route, and that's where his post-mortem wounds appeared. There's a story (believed for centuries that his coffin was used as a horse trough in Leicester until 1758 when pieces were used to build cellar steps in an inn.
I hoped for a long time after his bones were discovered that he would be buried in a Roman Catholic Church at York. Now, we know of course that Leicester has the honours.
Having said all that, I suppose I should declare that I believe that he gave the orders to murder his nephews!
It's odd that Richard was wearing no helmet. Taken off, knocked off perhaps? This certainly allowed a claymore to injure his skull, if not fatally then he wouldn't be doing too much after it! Croyland says that Richard's body was 'found among the slain and many insults were heaped on it'.
It was, as we know, stripped, a halter put around his neck (as happened to condemned criminals) and trussed over a horse. Richard's arms and legs were hanging down both sides and as the journey progressed he was covered with mud and other filth, before arriving at Leicester.
There were no doubt crowds gathered along the route, and that's where his post-mortem wounds appeared. There's a story (believed for centuries that his coffin was used as a horse trough in Leicester until 1758 when pieces were used to build cellar steps in an inn.
I hoped for a long time after his bones were discovered that he would be buried in a Roman Catholic Church at York. Now, we know of course that Leicester has the honours.
Having said all that, I suppose I should declare that I believe that he gave the orders to murder his nephews!
- Curryong
- Posts: 2443
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:46 am
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Rosalind
- Location: Cranbourne, Australia
Re: Richard III
Curryong wrote:Fascinating stuff, debbie. Thank you and Irina. Medieval chroniclers of Bosworth were admiring of Richard's courage even when weren't supporters of his. Rous wrote 'Let me say the truth to his credit, that he bore himself like a noble soldier and honourably defended himself to his last breath, shouting again and again that he was betrayed, and crying "Treason! Treason! Treason!" (Presumably a comment about Earl Stanley and his men!) Vergil states that 'King Richard alone was killed fighting manfully in the thickest press of his enemies.'
It's odd that Richard was wearing no helmet. Taken off, knocked off perhaps? This certainly allowed a claymore to injure his skull, if not fatally then he wouldn't be doing too much after it! Croyland says that Richard's body was 'found among the slain and many insults were heaped on it'.
It was, as we know, stripped, a halter put around his neck (as happened to condemned criminals) and trussed over a horse. Richard's arms and legs were hanging down both sides and as the journey progressed he was covered with mud and other filth, before arriving at Leicester.
There were no doubt crowds gathered along the route, and that's where his post-mortem wounds appeared. There's a story (believed for centuries that his coffin was used as a horse trough in Leicester until 1758 when pieces were used to build cellar steps in an inn.
I hoped for a long time after his bones were discovered that he would be buried in a Roman Catholic Church at York. Now, we know of course that Leicester has the honours.
Having said all that, I suppose I should declare that I believe that he gave the orders to murder his nephews!
- debbiediablo
- Posts: 1467
- Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:42 am
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Deborah
- Location: Upper Midwest
Re: Richard III
That scoliosis makes me cringe. It could've shortened him by as much as a foot, possibly making him 4'8" instead of 5'8". The pain of riding a horse in full armor, fighting with heaving swords and other medieval instruments of destruction must've been beyond bearable. I've been fascinated with the fate of the two princes ever since reading about them as a child. I had my nose in a book a lot!
DebbieDiablo
*´¨)
¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·'* Even Paranoids Have Enemies
"Everything you want is on the other side of fear."
*´¨)
¸.· ´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·'* Even Paranoids Have Enemies
"Everything you want is on the other side of fear."
- Curryong
- Posts: 2443
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:46 am
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Rosalind
- Location: Cranbourne, Australia
Re: Richard III
There was a BBC documentary made featuring a man with the same sort of scoliosis to see whether he would be able to manage handling heavy weaponry, riding a horse in armour etc., and after some training he managed it quite well though he found it very tiring. (Of course he had custom-made armour.) I haven't seen this documentary, though no doubt it will be shown in Australia by the ABC (national broadcaster) which buys tons of BBC programmes.
Yes, in spite of what the Richard III Society and others said about Tudor propaganda influencing Shakespeare, Richard did have a disability after all, though he certainly wasn't a hunchback!
Yes, in spite of what the Richard III Society and others said about Tudor propaganda influencing Shakespeare, Richard did have a disability after all, though he certainly wasn't a hunchback!
- twinsrwe
- Posts: 4457
- Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 pm
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Judy
- Location: Wisconsin
Re: Richard III
That is a very interesting article, Debbie. Thanks to you and Irina for sharing this with us.
I found this article from CNN World on the internet today: http://tinyurl.com/l5ze29l
I found this article from CNN World on the internet today: http://tinyurl.com/l5ze29l
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
- twinsrwe
- Posts: 4457
- Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 pm
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Judy
- Location: Wisconsin
Re: Richard III
I know what you mean, Debbie.debbiediablo wrote:That scoliosis makes me cringe. ...
My son has structural scoliosis, and therefore his ribs were pressing against his lungs, which restricted his breathing and reduced his oxygen levels. His was severe enough to require surgery. When he was 15 years old he underwent a spinal fusion. He has two metal rods, which were placed along his spinal cord; these rods run the entire length of his back. If we had not had this surgery done, my son would not be alive today.
Despite the fact that Richard III had one shoulder slightly higher than the other and a short trunk in comparison with his arms and legs, there is no evidence he walked with a limp. However, he probably lived with a great deal of pain even though he wore custom-made armor.
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )