Lizzie Borden Society Forum

This English tea-pot is more interesting. I bought it in the same flea market where I found that American coffee-pot.

This tea-pot, in almost perfect conditions, is a product of M. H. & Co., Sheffield, Martinoid, 1852. What makes it unusual is the inscription engraved on it:

PRESENTED BY THE OFFICERS & MEN OF THE BRIGHTON POLICE TO INSPR. GEORGE JUPP ON HIS RETIREMENT FROM THE FORCE, AFTER 26 YEARS SERVICE AS A MARK OF ESTEEM & REGARD 1912

Let’s have a look online…and I found this Mr. George Jupp: http://www.sussex.police.uk/photo-archi ... eorge-jupp

Did Mr. Jupp have any link with our forum? Oui! His career (1886-1912) covered the three of the most sensational murder cases: Jack the Ripper (1888), Lizzie Borden (1892) and Villisca (1912). What were his opinions about these three cases?

But how did this tea-pot arrive in Rome from Brighton? It seems a mystery, especially when we consider that the tea-pot should be a precious piece for its historic value for the Jupp Family. Was there a criminal hand behind its journey from England to European Continent? I contacted the Brighton Police via Facebook and informed them that I would be glad to offer the tea-pot for free to the Jupps if they wished to recuperate it. The Police answered me, in few words, that they couldn’t accept the tea-pot because they didn’t know to whom to deliver it. What a pity!

It was very kind of you, Franz, to offer to give this teapot back to the Jupp family. It was obviously a retirement gift and probably highly prized by him. Sheffield plate and mid-19th century. I see the Inspector had at least one child, judging by the supply of the lovely photographs by his granddaughter. Perhaps she is now dead and her things were sold, which is quite sad.

Looking at the photos, the moustache worn by the older Inspector Jubb was known as a walrus moustache. He certainly wore some fancy uniforms and looks as if he performed in the Police band at concerts and so forth. I don't know if he knew about Lizzie or Villisca but he almost certainly would have taken an interest in the Jack the Ripper case.

The teapot probably was never used to brew tea. A lot of people use tea bags now, but loose-leaf tea is always best brewed in a china pot. This one was probably proudly displayed in a cabinet.

Oh, Curryong, you are also an expert of moustaches!

I LOVE tea!! I prefer tea bags (over loose tea) and black-orange pekoe. That was a great find, Franz and it was great of you to offer it back to the Jupp family. The only thing I can think of is try to track down any remaining family.

So very kind of you Franz.

You might get onto JtRForum.com and offer this information as a newcomer. There are many good genealogists working on Jack the Ripper and they may know something helpful. I ran the name Jupp through the search engine on JtR Casebook and didn't some up with anything helpful.

I still think it would be appropriate to post the find on JtRForum.com because we have many entries for police and other things pertaining to Victorian times, London, etc. This is important because it is how at least one police officer was rewarded in his retirement after having served during those interesting times.

Franz,

In 2013, his granddaughter, Mrs. Dorothy Barnett posted these pictures to this website. Maybe you can try to trace her, since it's recent.

http://www.sussex.police.uk/photo-archi ... eorge-jupp

That is a very good idea, MysteryReader. Though quite how you'd trace her I don't know. She might be a very old lady.

Walrus moustaches were very popular in the 19th and earlier 20th century, Franz, though for older men. Do you have a moustache (not a walrus one?)

MysteryReader wrote:I LOVE tea!! I prefer tea bags (over loose tea) and black-orange pekoe. ...

I'm with you on this one, MysteryReader; I also love tea and prefer tea bags over loose tea. My favorite is green tea, but I also enjoy the orange-pekoe black tea.

A recent survey conducted by Opinion Research Corporation reveals that Americans overwhelmingly associate health benefits with green tea and overlook the health benefits of regular, black tea. Seventy-one percent identify hot green tea as a good source of antioxidants, while only 34 percent of respondents view regular hot tea as a good source of antioxidants. In fact, regular (black) and green tea have virtually the same amount of antioxidants. Additionally, 58 percent of those surveyed mistakenly identify herbal tea as a good source of antioxidants, when in fact herbal tea, unlike green and black tea, does not contain antioxidants. …

Both black and green teas are derived from the Camellia Sinensis plant. The main difference is the processing method …

The health benefits gained from drinking black and green tea are comparable, both helping to promote health and well-being.

http://tinyurl.com/kngswtz

MysteryReader wrote:Franz,

In 2013, his granddaughter, Mrs. Dorothy Barnett posted these pictures to this website. Maybe you can try to trace her, since it's recent.

http://www.sussex.police.uk/photo-archi ... eorge-jupp

Thank you MysterReader,

Mrs. Dorothy Barnett provided some photos of her father as well, he too was an inspector of Brighton Police:

http://www.sussex.police.uk/photo-archi ... rge-b-jupp

I found "2013" at the bottom of the page, in the copyright note. But this might not mean necessarily that Mrs. Barnett provided these photos in 2013. She might have provided them much earlier. If her father retired in 1931, then we could suppose that Mrs. Barnett could be born about between 1895-1915, so if she is alive, she should be at least 100 year old.

Curryong wrote:That is a very good idea, MysteryReader. Though quite how you'd trace her I don't know. She might be a very old lady.

Walrus moustaches were very popular in the 19th and earlier 20th century, Franz, though for older men. Do you have a moustache (not a walrus one?)

Ahahah, I have no moustache.

Yes. the men's moustaches were --- and are --- important. Maupassant wrote a novel intitled Moustache.

I found "2013" at the bottom of the page, in the copyright note. But this might not mean necessarily that Mrs. Barnett provided these photos in 2013. She might have provided them much earlier. If her father retired in 1931, then we could suppose that Mrs. Barnett could be born about between 1895-1915, so if she is alive, she should be at least 100 year old.[/quote]

LOL! I'm so sorry. I wasn't thinking when I looked at the date on the bottom of the page. But perhaps she had a child or something?

I'll tack on a comment about tea here. Where I lived in Oregon there was a company that sold powdered green tea which taken in great quantities is reputed to fight cancer. I have some personal knowledge of green tea fighting cancer in that I have seen patients improve on it. If I ever got cancer I think I would try this as I know I am not strong enough for other treatments.

If anyone is interested in the information about the company that sells powdered green tea I will be happy to dig out the articles & post links. (as good as I ever post links, anyway )

irina wrote:I'll tack on a comment about tea here. Where I lived in Oregon there was a company that sold powdered green tea which taken in great quantities is reputed to fight cancer. I have some personal knowledge of green tea fighting cancer in that I have seen patients improve on it. If I ever got cancer I think I would try this as I know I am not strong enough for other treatments.

If anyone is interested in the information about the company that sells powdered green tea I will be happy to dig out the articles & post links. (as good as I ever post links, anyway )

If it's not too much trouble, Irina, I'm interested in it. I can only drink green tea if it's got peppermint in it (the flavor is hard to find). I had a couple of friends who worked in a little cafe and they sold powered tea or loose tea. I've gotten used to tea bags but I can always make my own.

I'm with twins in that I think all tea has health benefits. However, green tea is specially good. I'm hardly ever ill, thank goodness, but many years ago I had a stone which for reasons best known to itself decided to pop into my bile duct. At the time I was having tests the only things that would soothe my stomach (I was in great pain) were rice crackers and green tea. The benefit of the green tea was almost instant, so thanks for that offer, irina. I'll certainly keep it in mind.

I've tried to use loose tea in a little strainer gadget-- and I must be doing it wrong-- every time I end up with gounds in my tea!

Maybe it's splashing over the sides of the strainer, Anthony. A larger strainer perhaps? It's not that unusual to have a speck or two in the tea after you've poured it, even with a strainer. Some of it will inevitably get through.

I once knew a lady who never used a strainer and would tell people's fortunes by the shapes made in their cups by the dregs after they had drunk their tea. Tea-leaf readings! She told one of her neighbours she would win a large bet at horse racing and she did, but it wasn't that much of a stretch as the woman was a regular gambler!

http://thevintagetable.com.au/fortune-t ... ea-leaves/

Mystery Reader: I'll dig up the articles and start a new thread here. I was quite impressed with the write-ups and know these people are honest in what they are doing, that they are not snake-oil salesmen. I do believe in the medicinal value of tea.

Curryong wrote:It was very kind of you, Franz, to offer to give this teapot back to the Jupp family. It was obviously a retirement gift and probably highly prized by him. Sheffield plate and mid-19th century. I see the Inspector had at least one child, judging by the supply of the lovely photographs by his granddaughter. Perhaps she is now dead and her things were sold, which is quite sad.

Looking at the photos, the moustache worn by the older Inspector Jubb was known as a walrus moustache. He certainly wore some fancy uniforms and looks as if he performed in the Police band at concerts and so forth. I don't know if he knew about Lizzie or Villisca but he almost certainly would have taken an interest in the Jack the Ripper case.

The teapot probably was never used to brew tea. A lot of people use tea bags now, but loose-leaf tea is always best brewed in a china pot. This one was probably proudly displayed in a cabinet.

I came across a Reverend William Walker Jubb who knew of the Bordens and the girls. I wonder if he was related to the Jupp mentioned by Franz? Surely someone can do a quick trace?

Irina, I'd also be interested in the information about the company that sells powdered green tea.

Rebello Pages 167-168, has a profile of the Rev. William Walker Jubb. He was English, visited the U.S. and on his second visit in 1891 was offered the Pastorship of Central Congregational Church in Fall River. He and his wife were prominent supporters of Lizzie at the time of her arrest and trial, as was the Rev Buck and family. William Jubb and his wife returned to England in 1896, after five years in Fall River.

I don't know whether Lizzie and the Jubbs remained friends after the trial.

I agree with Curry, green tea is one of the best things to drink for an upset stomach. When I have stomach aches and pains, all I want is a bowl of chicken noodle soup and a cup of green tea!

Another thing that is just as good as green tea for settling an upset stomach, is the juice from black raspberries. Actually, I prefer drinking the juice from black raspberries, over drinking green tea for an upset stomach. I grew up on black raspberries. My parents farm had a wooded area that was full of black raspberry bushes. I remember my sister and I would go berry picking, and come home with our buckets (as well as our tummies) full. Depending on how many berries where brought home, my mother would either serve them fresh over vanilla ice cream, fresh by themselves with a small amount of sugar added to them, or she would can them.

Unfortunately, in my area of the world, fresh picked black raspberries are extremely hard to find in grocery stores; you can find them the frozen fruit section of stores, as well as in jams and jellies, but for fresh picked black raspberries you will not find.

What's New and Beneficial About Raspberries: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... ce&dbid=39

Sounds delicious You'll have to pay a nostalgic visit back, twins, and see if they are as good as you remember.

Fruit in Australia is varied and rapidly grows and ripens (with the exception of pears!). The same with vegetables. Unfortunately however, like a lot of natural produce afflicted with gigantism, there can be coarseness involved. I do like cherries though, and I'm buying a lot at the moment.

Curryong wrote:Sounds delicious You'll have to pay a nostalgic visit back, twins, and see if they are as good as you remember. ...

I have, and they are!!!

I came face to face with my first live-in-the-wild rattlesnake picking raspberries shortly after we were married. We still have both red and black raspberry patches (I like mine sugared with 1/2 & 1/2 or, when we had access to it, fresh cream) but my husband and the adult kids do most of the picking: I get very little done other than poking around in the bushes with a long stick listening for a rattle.

Awww, yes, the rattlesnakes! We also had rattlesnakes in the wooded area of my parents farm. Fortunately, my sister and I did not encounter one during our berry-picking times.

You are so lucky to have both the red and black raspberries patches, Debbie! I envy you.

Since, you brought up fresh cream - I love chocolate cake, with whole cream poured over the top of it. This is heaven on earth! Whole cream is another thing that is hard, if not impossible, to find in grocery stores.

One thing is for sure, this topic is bringing back a lot of wonderful childhood memories!

Like the flashing 'Happy New Year,' twins! And the same good wishes to you and to everyone!

Thanks Curry. I hope 2015 will be a wonderful year for everyone!

For those of you who like fresh cream- are there any dairy farmers near by (or within a radius you wouldn't mind driving) who would let you buy it from them?

It's illegal to sell without special licensing.

debbiediablo wrote:It's illegal to sell without special licensing.

Hmmm but maybe you can find someone who is licensed? In in GA and you have to have a license before selling certain items to the public.

According to the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection web site; selling raw milk is illegal in Wisconsin.

http://datcp.wi.gov/Food/Raw_Milk/FAQs/ ... eSupport=1

Ah, I see. Well, nothing says anything about befriending a farmer I bet they use cream and could "give" you some.

You may be right, Mystery. However, as far as I know, there aren't any farmers willing to ‘give away’ a product, or even a part of a product, that is their livelihood.

The price paid for milk from the farm is determined by its butterfat content so farmers will not skim cream and sell it separately, even if licensed, because it greatly devalues the rest of their milk. I think Twins and I grew up in very similar environments only she's east of the Mississippi. And I'm older. There's an excellent reason for not selling raw dairy products straight from the farm:

http://www.cdc.gov/features/rawmilk/

One of my earliest memories is my mother pasteurizing milk with a home pasteurizer. She was immaculate about the milk we consumed. Then we traveled to Canada and she contracted brucellosis from raw milk products which were still uncontrolled and actually served in restaurants.

There have been cases here in Australia of raw unpasteurised milk (labelled bath milk) being purchased by mothers from health food stores. These deluded women have then fed it to their toddlers and babies. In two cases I know of, a baby died and another was left with serious kidney problems. The mother of the injured baby burbled "I didn't know there was anything the matter with it. I thought it was a natural product." Worse, some are still buying it and giving it to their young children though the Health Dept has issued warnings.

I have drunk milk fresh from a cow twice on farm visits, but sometimes it's as if Louis Pasteur's work and the 19th century deaths that preceded it, tubercular cows etc, might as well not have existed.

debbiediablo wrote:The price paid for milk from the farm is determined by its butterfat content so farmers will not skim cream and sell it separately, even if licensed, because it greatly devalues the rest of their milk. I think Twins and I grew up in very similar environments only she's east of the Mississippi. And I'm older. There's an excellent reason for not selling raw dairy products straight from the farm:

http://www.cdc.gov/features/rawmilk/

One of my earliest memories is my mother pasteurizing milk with a home pasteurizer. She was immaculate about the milk we consumed. Then we traveled to Canada and she contracted brucellosis from raw milk products which were still uncontrolled and actually served in restaurants.

Excellent post, Debbie! I also think you and I grew up in very similar environments. Although, I am a tad bit older than you are.

I am so sorry to hear that your mother contracted brucellosis from raw milk products. This is why raw milk is illegal to sell in Wisconsin; it can make people sick.

I grew up drinking raw milk, which my mother did not pasteurizer our milk with a home pasteurizer; it was as raw as it comes! Fortunately none of my family got sick from it.

Curry, I have also drank raw milk straight from the cows udder! IMO: Cold milk is barely tolerable, but warm milk, YUCK!

twinsrwe wrote: Excellent post, Debbie! I also think you and I grew up in very similar environments. Although, I am a tad bit older than you are.

Doggone....we are old....

I refuse to believe that I am any older than 21 as that is as old as I feel, in my mind. (That's a Babyboomer talking !) It's just that jumping back up, after having been on my knees reaching for something, is getting a bit harder, that's all!

You are only as old as you feel.

debbiediablo wrote:

twinsrwe wrote: Excellent post, Debbie! I also think you and I grew up in very similar environments. Although, I am a tad bit older than you are.

Doggone....we are old....

Yes, Yes, we are!!! We may be 'old' in the eyes of some people, but 'young' in the eyes of others. I don't know about you, Debbie, but I am proud of my age; I've worked hard to get where I am. I'm in good health, I feel like I am in my mid-twenties, I appear to be 10 years younger than I actually am, and I have a positive out-look on life. It’s all in your mind set; if you think you are 'old', then you will feel and act old, but if you think you are 'not all that old', then you will feel and act younger than your years. I don't think I am 'all that old', yet.

Curryong wrote:I refuse to believe that I am any older than 21 as that is as old as I feel, in my mind. (That's a Babyboomer talking !) It's just that jumping back up, after having been on my knees reaching for something, is getting a bit harder, that's all!

I agree!

MysteryReader wrote: You are only as old as you feel.

You are absolutely right!

I don't need these...my obsessions run toward rare patterns and pieces of blue and pink Depression glass, fine china with floral motif and old Japanese cloisonné chocolate pots and tea sets...but aren't these gorgeous? Made around 1940 in Japan. Not a bargain either. On eBay rather than at a flea market... Grace and elegance....

I like some cloisonné too. The teapots posted are very elegant. Perhaps not too practical though. The tea would have a bit of difficulty gushing through the spouts! Objects of aesthetic beauty only, perhaps?

Some more images from eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Teapots-Tea-Sets-/29455/i.html

WOW, Debbie, those teapots are absolutely beautiful!!!

The spouts are long and narrow enough so that with care a person wouldn't end up with a table full of tea...the operative words being "with care". Pouring from these would be an art.

Debbie, I like your new avatar!

Interesting article, Curry.

Thanks, twins. I too like your new avatar, debbie.

It's a cat wearing glasses and reading Mb's book....

OMG, Debbie, that is funny!!!