Walter Raleigh's Lost Colony

[MysteryReader]

I'm reading Roanoke: The Mystery of the Lost Colony by Lee Miller and in order to understand the Dare Stone(s), it's important to understand the background. I won't bore you with what I found out but I will say that Fernandez (I'm not 100% sure who he was) sabotaged the colonists (who would become the lost colony) and managed to maroon them on Roanoke Island (White was going to Chesapeake Bay, not R.I.).

Spain was told of the colonists going to R.I. and Ralph Lane (commander in charge of the fort on Roanoke Island. Massacred the Secotan at Dasamonquepeuc where Pemisapan was killed (Pemisapan was a Secotan leader; also known as Wingina. Murdered by Lane's men)).

The Secotan didn't look too favorably at the English and attacked White's company.

Who was Fernandez and why did he sabotage the English colony? I know that Lane thought he could bully/kill the Secotan into showing him where the caves were (the Secotan had bronze and didn't want to trade with the English).

I'm not done with the book yet (it's a kid's book so I should be done in a bit) so I don't know if it will shed anymore light on what happened to the colony. I found the Dare Stone(s) to be difficult reading.

[MysteryReader]

It's too easy with this book but I've got others on hold: apparently White told the colonists before leaving to carve on the trees or doorposts of the houses the name of their destination if they left the island. He also made them promise that if they were in distress, they should carve over the letters or name, a cross (+).

Someone, somewhere didn't want the colonists to land and used Fernandez to sabotage them. There were at least 10 "accidents" recorded.

[debbiediablo]

The thoughts then and now lean toward Sir Francis Walsingham who was a rival of Raleigh for Elizabeth I's favor. Tudor England rivaled the Borgia Papacy for conspiracy at the highest levels of government...then again the highest echelons of any and all governments may be no different given Air America's role in the Viet Nam War.

[MysteryReader]

Yes, that is what I discovered, too Debbie! However, I didn't come across anything mentioning the Dare Stone(s). What I did find super interesting was this:

"In 1701, fully 114 years after the disappearance of the Lost Colony, surveyor John Lawson visited the island. He had begun his trek from newly settled Charleston, S.C., and had traveled north to the Outer Banks in the Secotan country." He took measurements and a group of a Secotan gathered around. "They told him that they lived on Roanoke Island, or visited there often." While they watched him work, they remarked "several of their ancestors were white people, and could talk in a book as we do. Astonished, Lawson peered at them closely, and was stunned. The truth of their claim, he admitted, was confirmed by grey eyes being found frequently amongst these Indians." (p. 105-106).

I think the Lost Colony had moved, in order to survive and were captured by Indians and intermarried.

[Curryong]

Yes, Walsingham was a sort of spymaster General and he and Raleigh loathed each other. He trained Robert Cecil, first Earl Salisbury, in state security matters and James I, after Elizabeth, also thought highly of Cecil. I can imagine Walsingham doing all he could to sabotage Raleigh's chances at founding a successful colony in the New World.

Juan Fernandez was a Spanish soldier and explorer, wasn't he? The Spanish were the first European explorers and exploiters of South America and grew rich on the minerals (gold, diamonds etc) found there. Hardly surprisingly other European powers wanted a share! English privateers were always attacking Spanish shipping sailing back to Europe loaded with treasure.

[MysteryReader]

Actually, it was Simon Fernandez who was a ship's pilot (guide) from the Azores. Sabotaged John White's colony. I think the Spain wanted the bronze that the Indians had and protected. Yes, Walsingham was a spy

[debbiediablo]

Yes, gray eyes and some of them supposedly spoke a variant of Welsh. Argument has been made that the Lumbee tribe are kin of the Croatan who intermarried with The Lost Colony. The State of North Carolina recognizes the Lumbee tribe but the United States government does not. The dispute began following the Civil War when Democrats wanted the Lumbee vote and tried unsuccessfully to get federal recognition for their tribe so the Lumbee children would be schooled by the federal government and not alongside the children of former slaves. The Lumbee had long been recognized as biracial except a combination of Western European and African rather than Western European and Native American. They have also claimed lineage from the Cherokee, Iroquois, Algonquian and others. No one has been able to prove anything other than they are clearly a biracial people; however, handing out free 23&Me kits would settle it once and for all.... The majority opinion sans DNA testing is the tribe is black and white, not Indian and white, although no one knows exactly what might have happened for a brief time in the late 1500s.

Simon Fernandez was the ship's Master and the colonists were to be dropped at Chesapeake after picking up 15 soldiers who had been left behind at Roanoke the previous year. Two skeletons showed evidence that the solders were attacked and killed with some of them fleeing to sea by boat. None were ever seen again. The colonists bound for Chesapeake disembarked at Roanoke. Fernandez then refused to allow them back on the boat. Suddenly he was no longer going to Chesapeake but rather to the Caribbean to chase down and loot Spanish ships. First he spent a month overhauling the boat; then he left the colonists behind. Fernandez did agree to take John White back to England via a privateer's route knowing full well that the abandoned colonists would likely not survive the forthcoming winter. To do this Fernandez had to feel safe, beyond punishment, because his actions condemned both subjects and land pledged to Elizabeth I. This colonization had been strongly promoted by Raleigh to gain wealth and power for himself and favor with the queen. Only someone with strong influence, reliable connections and Elizabeth's ear could protect Fernandez, and that person is thought to be Walsingham who understood that Spanish plunder would pay the price of over 100 English lives.

[irina]

There are all kinds of rumours of native tribes having light skins and blue eyes, speaking variants of English and knowing something of reading. There was more interaction across the Atlantic I believe, than many are willing to accept. I have doubts that the Roanoke colony survived in any great numbers in any one place. TJ made a good argument about their likely fate on the other thread about the Dare Stones. It seems to me if they survived as a group anywhere near that area, that John White would have found some information when he returned three years later. It seems there would have been some sign or rumour or urban legend or something and instead there is only silence.

[debbiediablo]

This is better addressed in another book called The Head in Edward Nugent's Hand about the ambush killing of one of the "friendly" local weroances (chiefs) and decapitation by Edward Nugent and the political upheaval and anti-white sentiment that followed. In short, what this section of the book says (and it's well-researched and cited) is that seven of the colonists survived and lived among the native peoples, adopting their ways of living and intermarrying with them. However no one white person ever saw them again, and even though the English with John Smith's party were convinced that all the local tribes knew what happened to the Roanoke settlement, none of the natives ever offered any explanation. This would correspond with the first stone's information but has also been historically known since the early 1600s.

[irina]

Various internet articles said an English leader a few years before the lost colony, had destroyed a native village in the belief the natives had stolen a silver cup. The natives were especially angry that a village was destroyed and I can understand that feeling for a village with whatever buildings equal security and shelter from the elements. This was supposed to be the basis for retaliation.

I have never found books on the subject and the business world certainly capitalizes on the LOST colony thing. I googled Virginia Dare images to relive what I remember from childhood on the fruit boxes and such. I remembered right~ a beautiful blonde girl that looks just like silent actress Mary Miles Minter! It is far more profitable for the colony to remain lost.

[debbiediablo]

The Head in Edward Nugent's Hand is dry beyond belief....but deals with all the perfidy committed by the English against the native tribes including destruction of the village of Aquascopoc when the silver cup was not returned as demanded...this included village and crops but most of the woman and children were able to flee before the fighting started. Then a huge mistake as the English enter the weoance Wingina's village to negotiate when, in fact, their intent is massacre. Confusion reigns when the battle begins. Wingina gets shot but manages to run away, is then followed into the brush to be killed and decapitated. His head is placed on a pike outside the English stockade. This happens a year before the Lost Colony is established, so the colonists are landing right in the middle of Native Americans who have been victimized by English brutality and deception. Also interesting is two other weroances, Manteo and Wanchese, had already traveled across the Atlantic to visit England and meet Elizabeth I prior to 1586. (Where was this tidbit in American history?) Wanchese became vehemently opposed to the English; Manteo became a supporter. Thus, the balance of power in the region was with Wingina (later changed his name to Pemisapan) whose head ended up on a pike. This disruption of the natural political flow within the region likely did more to unify the tribes than to drive them apart.

[irina]

We never got the other side in our history lessons. History needs to cover everything and when things were bad on either side, it needs to be a lesson not to do that sort of thing in the future. There is so much to be learned by seeing all sides of history and to approach history as a series of human experiences, rather than victories and losses. History may be written by the victors but history is the story of humanity struggling with life, from individual perspectives.