SCHOOL IS IN SESSION !!!

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:53 pm

As most of you know, I am a 7th/8th grade science teacher. I am getting some grief from my kids (and parents believe it or not !) about how I insist on them turning in 'quality' work.

I have been trying to instill in my students, the idea that things like spelling, grammar, and punctuation are an important part of good, and effective communication skills. Whether in science, English, or whatever, if they want to be taken seriously, they need to be able to spell, punctuate, and use good grammar.

I actually get parents who get very upset when I deduct a few points because a word is spelled wrong. I just want these kids to be the best they can possibly be. Am I so wrong ?

While some people want to blame the computer-age, I feel laziness plays a part too. I know that spell check can miss certain things like using there when it should be their. So, this is where letting teachers push kids to another level academically, and parents being involved with their child's education can be vitally important.

I feel as adults we should set the example. If I expect my students to communicate effectively with good spelling, punctuation, and grammar, then I should do the same. Of course, we all make mistakes now and then, even as educated adults.

Does anyone here know if there are any features with this forum that are similar to spell check or grammar check ? Sometimes when I am writing my posts, I wish I could run one of these 'checks'...just to 'check'.

Thanks for listening.

Tracy...

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:45 pm

Alas, there's nothing within the program itself to spell check. There are lots of free dictionaries on the internet though.

Here's one that's not only a dictionary but a thesaurus and translator as well:

http://lookwayup.com/free/dictionary.htm

I keep the URL in my favorites. If you enter an invalid word it will give you a list of words that are similar in spelling.

Another method I use on long messages is to copy and paste the message in MS-Word or similar word processing program and run the spell check from there.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:51 pm

With this handy, free utility you can actually spell check your posts by typing them in and then right clicking in the message box...

It is a REALLY nice program and it works in the Avant browser I use as well as IE.

http://www.iespell.com/download.php

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:37 am

Thank you both very much for the great links and ideas. I know I will be using them. I may share them with my students as well.

Harry and Audrey...please come to the front of the class and get your gold stars ! You may also have an extra 10 minutes of recess !

Tracy...

Pippi · Post by **Pippi** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:32 am

Idon't know what it is we use but it's some sort of spell ck program that runs on my internet browsers as well as text edit, then I have spell ck in word and outlook.

As someone with problems with phonics and spelling and all that neat stuff I was suppose to learn in grade school but migraines got in the way I digress..

Tracy, good for you! I can't spell but I use a spell ck'er and I try my best to LEARN from the spell ck'er. I just abbreviate things funny bc my hands get very sore quickly from typing.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:21 am

I don't think that you are wrong because you insist that your kids turn in good work. When you go to work, the employer wants you to do good work or they will find someone else to do the work.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:54 pm

Pip and Snok...thank you for your comments and support.

I wonder what the expectations are in parochial schools/other private schools vs. what they are in public schools ? I will attest to the public school side. Will anyone here attest to what is expected in parochial/other private schools ?

Tracy...

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:00 am

I went to provical schools.(even though I am mormon, now I was raised catholic. Convert to the church) I know when I was in provical schools, they were very strict, but you had a bunch of nuns around whopping your knukles with rulers too. And my parents wander why I converted to the Mormon faith. Don't figure.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:09 am

So, you went to parochial schools Snok ? I am thinking the nuns weren't that tough. I wonder, did you ever get your knuckles whopped ? I had nuns for my catechism classes, but I hever had my knuckles whopped. Go figure.

Tracy...

Tracie · Post by **Tracie** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:31 am

Hi Tracy,

I wrote yesterday and then I failed to post--wish I had.

My son is in the seventh grade and attends public school. He spent his first six years (kindergarten-fifth) at a private school. What a difference in the education he received in private school.

I hoped that given a good start he could and would succeed in public school. The private school only went to the sixth grade, so public school would become a necessity for middle school.

I must say that the private school had smaller classes and alot of individual attention. Much more was expected and parents complaining about excessive homework were told this is how it is folks. But the teachers were always available to speak and meet with parents and to help students. They appeared more dedicated.

The public school was such a shock to me--I expected so much more from the teachers and staff. The teachers that I've only spoken with in three and a half years of Harleigh's middle school experience have been cool to luke warm. The teachers are overwhelmed with disciplining the class that not much teaching actually takes place. My son does well because not much is expected of the class. what ever he does is A or high B work. And that is with very little effort on his part. His preparation from private school has placed him at the top of his class (even tho he is my boy and I love him dearly), he truly isn't earning that spot on sheer intelligence.

He is frustrated with his fellow students. They do not respect their teachers nor do they follow thru on work that is required. He does his homework in class while the teacher yells at the students. He is always complaining that he is punished when the class is acting up with additional homework and projects when he is not at fault. I explain that the extra work is good for him and gives him more knowledge even if it's not fair.

So he gains, but he is also losing ground.

My son is polite and considerate ( this was expected in private) and goes to school to learn. He teachers find this refreshing. He volunteers to read aloud in class and presents his projects first. He finds it painful to watch and listen to his fellow students. They have trouble reading and presenting. He gained so much confidence in private school. They encouraged him and helped him be the best he could be. For that I will forever be grateful.

Keep up the good work, expect alot and get more.

Truly,

Tracie

PS: I work in a public college (biology dept.) and I see students who still have their parents call and write the instructors that the work is too hard and their is too much expected from them. And of course "It's not fair". Shame on the parents.

Pippi · Post by **Pippi** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:34 am

I can tell you that my mother and I picked out a very nice catholic school for my brother that my mother was very active at. (yikes now I'm feeling self conscious about my writing!) He was only able to go there for kindergarten as we moved, BUT, while he was there he learned a ton, loved school, and was ahead of his peers in public school. This was after nuns stopped beating kids and seem a little less frustrated in general.

When he started public school pththththt. I can't tell you what exactly would have happened had he been able to stay in the good private school but I suspect he would have been taught proper grammar and spelling and gotten graded based on such. The classes were smaller and there was a LOT more individualized help. I don't want publ. school teachers to be offended by no means do I blame you but the limitations under which you have to work and try to teach! I feel for you I do!! I think it's possible parents who send their children to private schools are more involved with wanting their children to do well in school and accepting of the teachers intentions. Public school is after all, mandatory.

(nope not catholic just liked the school system it was really really good it had to be for my very anti catholic mother to enroll him!) If it was possible, would have LOVED to have gone montessori! I personally went to a liberal college that didn't give grades but evaluations and yes, they did care about my spelling ;) I care, so if you ever want to point out how I've misused a comma or something go for it I won't take offense it would help me TONS but you are a teacher so I don't expect you to teach at home so feel free to be free to not smack my hand too

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:29 pm

Tracie & Pippi,

I must start off with saying that my intention is not make anyone feel paranoid about writing here in the forum, thinking I get out my red pen with every post. I just feel that we as adults need to set the best example possible for those that will follow. Besides, I would use a pink pen...LOL.

I really do appreciate all of your comments. I know that some non-public schools have a definite advantage over public schools. A GIANT part of it, believe it or not, is class size. As you mentioned...individual attention is generally greater in a private school. This can be done due to not having 35 kids in a classroom. Having to stop teaching and discipline one or two while the others wait is very frustrating.

While I know I am a strict teacher, I also KNOW that my students are learning. I test/give feedback often. The kids are so use to knowing that all they have to worry about is THEIR improvement, that we can go over individual test scores out loud...in class. They are very comfortable with that, and they are very encouraging toward each other. We also keep track of the class average for every unit test. I do allow re-testing, which I know some people don't agree with. But, at this level, it gives them practice...gives them a chance to work on their test-taking skills. For students, knowing HOW to test is as important as knowing the required material.

I get some grief from parents who want me to not have high expectations...who want me to take 'just barely enough' from their child, when that child is capable of SO MUCH MORE. They don't want their child 'stressed' in any way. Besides, their child has soccer after school...they don't have time for homework.

I think sports and other things like the arts are EXTREMELY important for students to be involved in. I just think their needs to be some kind of balance. Don't short change one for another.

I do love all of my students...even though some do things that make them harder to love...I still love them.

Again...I do appreciate everyone's comments. They help me to make changes in my classroom...to make it better.

Tracy...

diana · Post by **diana** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:45 pm

Dear Tracy -- what lucky students you have!

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:48 pm

Oh...I forgot to mention that it sounds like there are some very good parenting techniques being used by our forum members. I'd be willing to bet that your children's teachers appreciate having your children in their class, and having you as very supportive parents for those children. Parental support is a MAJOR factor in child's academic success. SUPPORT...not the "do it for them" routine that Tracie mentions seeing on a collegiate level.

Tracy...

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:31 pm

Tracy, I remember when raising my son as a single Mom with a busy job,
feeling guilty I couldn't be at every school thing. My feeling was that I had
to trust his teachers who were the professionals in education. I sure was no expert in that regard. Yet the teachers and school system seemed to put such huge pressure on parents to "get involved" and be into everything
and just a huge guilt trip when there was no way you could! I hope you put single working parents in mind and understand their challange. Sounds
like you are a wonderful teacher Tracy.

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:33 pm

Tracy, I remember when raising my son as a single Mom with a busy job,
feeling guilty I couldn't be at every school thing. My feeling was that I had
to trust his teachers who were the professionals in education. I sure was no expert in that regard. Yet the teachers and school system seemed to put such huge pressure on parents to "get involved" and be into everything
and just a huge guilt trip when there was no way you could! I hope you put single working parents in mind and understand their challange. Sounds
like you are a wonderful teacher Tracy.

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:35 pm

Tracy, I remember when raising my son as a single Mom with a busy job,
feeling guilty I couldn't be at every school thing. My feeling was that I had
to trust his teachers who were the professionals in education. I sure was no expert in that regard. Yet the teachers and school system seemed to put such huge pressure on parents to "get involved" and be into everything
and just a huge guilt trip when there was no way you could! I hope you put single working parents in mind and understand their challange. Sounds
like you are a wonderful teacher Tracy.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:08 pm

Nancie,

Being involved can mean different things for different people.

For instance parents who have obligations that preclude them from attending a parent-teacher conference are more than welcome to communicate with me via email, telephone, or by sending a note with their child. If they need communication in a language other than English...we can deal with that too.

When I talk about parents being involved, I mean that they should be aware of how their child is doing in school...both academically and behaviorally. If both sides are 'aware' of how the child is doing, any problems that arise can be dealt with quickly and effectively. Also, if the student is doing great and wondrous things, those deeds should be acknowledged in a timely manner too.

Our school year is divided into trimesters. I try to send grade reports home approximately every three weeks. On those reports, I highlight what work a student is missing or needs to redo. I go over it with the students individually and then have them return it with a parent/guardian signature so that I know the folks at home have been made aware.

The parents of our students can access their grades online. Even if they don't have a computer at home, they can get a sign-on name and password to use from any computer. They may also request a grade printout from our office if they are not able to access a computer.

We give our student's parents SEVERAL options as far as communication and 'awareness' are concerned. Also, the school sends out mailings for school events and important issues a couple of times every trimester. I feel like even the single working parent/guardian should be able to stay in touch with us in some (convenient to them) way throughout the year. While we may be the educational professionals...parents are a critical part, if not THE MOST important part of a child's success at school. So, if we are all on the same page, a child's educational success is a done deal !

Tracy...

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:11 pm

Yes I got my knuckles whoppped with the ruler plenty of times!! Espeically when I was suppose to name four of the 12 diciples and I said "John, Paul, George, and Ringo!" (the Beatles) Was told I was going to die and go to hell

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:47 pm

The EXACT same thing happened to Whoopi Goldberg's character, Sister Mary Clarence, in Sister Act !

Tracy...

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:47 pm

Tracy, what a thoughtful response, thank you. I guess I was very lucky to raise my son in Vermont in a small town. The teachers knew I was busy day and night as Town Clerk but they knew where to find me. Waylon's math teacher one time came to my office (because she heard I was LIVID she would not let him play in an upcoming Soccer game). She
told me face to face that Waylon flunked his test and did NOT show up for the make-up she offered him. OK this changed the story, Waylon did not tell
me about the chance to make-up. Waylon was in deep trouble with Mama then! How lucky we were to live in a small town and work things out. But I see my neices and nephew here in New Jersey just
lost in the system. Education is so important, good
teachers are the salt of the earth, God Bless Them.
Tracy, you sound like the Best!

Pippi · Post by **Pippi** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:59 pm

You sound like a great teacher and I'd be happy to have been one of your students! I remember having some understanding teachers and I always will. They pushed you but showed you love and helped you out. They explained it was in prep. for HS and college but it was more than that...they really cared and it showed and that comes out in your posts sweetie :) Thanks for all your hard work public school teachers have it hard!!

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:46 am

Well you the nuns are good at using rulers. I think they were born that way.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:50 am

My children have gone to a private Catholic school for years and not one of them has ever been struck by a teacher... Nun or otherwise.

Luckily, corporal punishment is not something most people accept anymore.

None of my children have ever been spanked or hit in anger by an adult-- by eachother? Probably!

We have been very lucky. For most of their education they have gone to a small town Catholic school and although the school is always struggling for funds and equipment they have done a wonderful job providing the kids an all around education.

Like Nancie, I like living in a small town where the teachers know where you work and how to get in touch with you if need be-- and I am sure Waylan was mainly good!

We recently moved to a new church. After a long, hard emotional struggle, Thayne and I have decided we are better off in a liberal Protestant church. The Martin children were given choices as to whether or not they wanted to remain in the school they have been going to or head off to public, all of them but Alax (his senior year) have decided to go public..... It is going to be interesting!

Wordweaver · Post by **Wordweaver** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:31 am

theebmonique @ Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:53 pm wrote: I have been trying to instill in my students, the idea that things like spelling, grammar, and punctuation are an important part of good, and effective communication skills.

You're doing your students a huge favor by teaching them that their language counts. Would they go out on a date without taking a shower or brushing their teeth? I hope not. Would they eat raw eggs and raw bacon for breakfast? No. Preparation and presentation make a big difference.

Lynn

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:44 pm

You are right about that. And people do judge you by how you speak and express yourself-- either by speaking or writing.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:52 pm

I most humbly thank you all for your many wonderful words. I wish that some of the families I work with were able to have your vision of how the educational process should work.

I would in no way be in support of corporal punishment. There are SO many other ways to peacefully work out problems in school.

I am concerned however with the number of school administrators who will not support teachers who are holding students to a high set of appropriate standards, but instead say it is 'easier' to give in to parents who would rather move their child to another class versus holding the child to the approved standards. I feel that is like saying "Oh, let's just let this student go so his mom won't yell at us, even though we know that we are selling him short educationally." I feel it is our responsibility as educators to "educate" parents on what is "right" about what we are doing, even if it is something they are not liking, or if it is something the student thinks (and I quote a student) 'is so rude'.

This is in particular reference to a student who was upset because after taking several 'attitude-related' remarks from her, I quietly mentioned while passing her desk that she needed to drop the attitude and do what I have asked. I had spoken previously with this student about her 'tone of voice' in speaking to me. I had not contacted the parent, as I felt it was something that could be handled in the classroom. Needless to say, I ended up meeting with the parent, and after an hour, it was resolved. The parent understood why I had made the statement to her daughter that I had, and that that situation need not come up again. This student, at the beginning of our meeting, wanted to leave my class...but by the time our meeting was over...she wanted to stay. If I had "OK'd" the transfer without that meeting, I would have in essence, been "giving up" on one of my students...I WILL NOT DO THAT. Even if I have to go through a "slightly less than cordial" meeting like the one I just mentioned, IT IS what I HAVE to do in order to do what is RIGHT for my students. I WILL NOT GIVE UP ON ANY STUDENT.

Thank you again for listening.

Tracy...

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SCHOOL IS IN SESSION !!!

SCHOOL IS IN SESSION !!!

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