A Child Called "It"

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:43 pm

Has anyone else read this series of books? I just recently finished reading them. I was really shocked that type of extreme abuse could go on and nobody tried to stop it. It's heartbreaking to think of a child enduring the abuse described. It also amazes me that David Peltzer grew up to be the man he was after having such a childhood, when he could have so easily become just another statistic in the criminal justice system.

Dave has experienced a truly extraordinary life. He nearly died several times by the hands of his mentally disturbed alcoholic mother. Years later it was determined that Dave’s case was identified as one of the most gruesome and extreme cases of child abuse in California’s then history. At age 12 Dave was finally rescued and placed in a series of foster homes until he enlisted in the U.S. Air Force at age 18. Even with all that was against him, Dave was determined to better himself - no matter what the odds.

http://www.davepelzer.com/CCI.htm

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 5:48 pm

David Pelzer COULD have used his magnificent credibility to make actual differences in laws and the way abuse allegations are handled. Instead he choose to continue to write additional books and make more money.

I do not minimize what happened to him, I just have problems with what he is doing now.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:03 pm

That's a rather cynical view.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:12 pm

Dave is one of the few personalities who pays homage to educators, social services, foster care, law enforcement, and volunteers--those who make a difference in the lives of children. On the road over 250 days of the year, Dave offers programs for corporate groups, human services, and youth-at-risk. Dave's experience includes: Juvenile Hall Counselor, Youth Service Worker, Troy State University--human services studies, National Advisor--Missing Youth Foundation, Board of Directors--Foster Care ILP, and Certified Correctional Custody Program Facilitator.

http://www.davepelzer.com/aboutd.htm

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:31 pm

And he charges heavily for it...

I have met David Pelzer. I did not form my opinion of him lightly.

And of course his own web site is going to be complimentary....

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:22 pm

His website was not the only place I found such information about him, and all of it seemed to be complimentary. There are even forums and such in his honor where teens post letters to him telling him how he has touched their lives. That link was simply the one I chose to post. If I may ask, what was your occassion for meeting David Pelzer?

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:31 pm

He spoke at a charity event I chaired to raise money for a children's shelter. He is by far the worst speaker I have ever dealt with. Suffice it to say I was miserably disappointed in his behavior.

monarchrn · Post by **monarchrn** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:13 am

I have also read these books and I myself do NOT understand how anybody could possibly put him down... This man survived what others wouldn't have...he helps other abused children, reads their letters and does what ever he can to help them. He could have just as well gone on about his life like a lot of them do by just sweeping it under the carpet, but he chose to help others. As we all know it takes more than 1 person to change laws, so he helps in other ways. So what if he isn't the best public speaker, given his backgorund its a wonder he wants to speak in public at all. As for the books, I see that as a way of him facing his past and sharing it with others. I'm sure all the things he does for abused children is NOT free. He also has his own family to support and I imagine he wants to give his son everything that he himself never had, like most parents do. I feel he is a hero in many childrens eyes and that without his help a lot of these children would probably just give up. I hardly think ONE meeting gives one the right to judge......

wintressanna · Post by **wintressanna** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:35 am

Hi there. Look I dont mean to pick on anything but one thing that really irks me...as someone who has seen a lot of abuse cases...is the concept that victimization angelifies a person. I do understand where the attitude comes from, from someone who admires that the abused did not use that abuse as an excuse to become a criminal or an abuser him/herself. But like it or not, we all have the responsibility to take what we get and make good use of it, and when you support an attitude which raises the status of a martyr complex, you are in fact aiding the abused to remain in the cycle of abuse.

I did read the series. It left me with the impression that something about Dave is still not quite right, though I am glad that he is apparently taking his experiences and using them to help others. Its still never a good idea to consider the man the same as you would the cause, because we are all human and we all have our quirks and make mistakes. Whatever Dave is doing right, he may still not necessarily be an easy person to get along with. And I am from the perspective generally speaking that it is who we are and choose to be that determines how we use our experiences rather than the experiences themselves. Someone may have the propensity within themselves to be a good speaker, abused or not, and yes their experiences may hinder that by hindering their growth in this or other areas such as confidence, but otherwise, they will end up using their talents in whatever manner they choose. It is a mistake to believe that being abused means you have to abuse others or continue to be a victim...dont ever let anyone out of taking responsibility for their actions, that is the true support of abuse cycles worldwide.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:53 am

We asked him to speak at an event meant to raise money for emergency care for children at risk.

He initially wanted to charge us $8000.00. I was the chair of the event and talked him down to $5000.

He demanded (and got) first class airfare to Omaha Ne. He had a suite which consisted of a bedroom, sitting area and 2 bathrooms in the nicest hotel in town. His room service bill for about 36 hours in the hotel was over $400. He asked for a rental car-- we got him one. The night of the event he "required" to be driven to location it was held at. My husband went to pick him up in his spotlessly clean, perfectly maintained less than 2 year old Jaguar. Mr Pelzer got into the backseat of Thayne's car and didn't even speak to him during the 20 minute drive except to complain about the leg room in the back seat he chose to sit in.

After his "talk" he refused to take questions even though he had agreed to do so when I spoke to him about the event.

When it came time to return to his hotel he found himself in a cab... He did send the bill. I never reimbursed him for it.

I did not jump to a conclusion based on one short experience. I based it on months of negotiations and his deplorable behavior while "helping" raise money for a cause he claims to believe in....

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:28 am

You have seen alot of abuse cases, but have you ever been abused yourself? He has chosen to devote his life to helping abused children. So he charges alot of money for his services, so do most doctors. Doctors charge a outrageous amount of money to even consult with you. What he may be trying to do is make sure that he will always have that food he longed for as a child, those new clothes he never got, the toys, etc. And that his children will always have them also. Maybe he is overcompensating for what he never had. Yes, I believe the person should use their experiences to help themselves become a better person. But it is not always so easy to move on. Abuse leaves scars. Mental as well as physical. If the reason Audrey doesn't think so highly of him was that he was either obnoxious, crude, self absorbed, or something of that nature, thats totally understandable that she feels that way. Everybody has good in them, everybody has self worth.All people do have the power within them to do great things. But some are never taught those things about themselves. Or worse, they are taught that they don't exist at all. They are taught they are worthless, not even worthy of a name in his case. His own mother treated him like this. The one person who was supposed to love and nurture him. Once a child starts to believe these things, it's hard for them to come to terms with the reality that it was never anything wrong with them. That it was something wrong with the abuser. Some never regain their lost self worth. So for him to have even come this far, I think it means something.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:54 am

"I do understand where the attitude comes from, from someone who admires that the abused did not use that abuse as an excuse to become a criminal or an abuser him/herself. But like it or not, we all have the responsibility to take what we get and make good use of it, and when you support an attitude which raises the status of a martyr complex, you are in fact aiding the abused to remain in the cycle of abuse."--Wintress

I was thinking about this as it might allude to our Lizzie. Recently I was wondering about Lizzie developing a martyr complex in her later years as a reason she might give herself to not leave Fall River, to live in ostracism, and to also have helped to develope her sense of entitlement.
If Lizzie, as Lizbeth, did have a martyr complex (in those romantic days it might have reflected in her in a sense of melodrama) something like that might be hard to live with and might have influenced Emma to leave.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:19 am

A "martyr complex" is an attitude of mind that finds strange emotional satisfaction in being persecuted. Why should this be? Well, if, for example, a person does not experience a good sense of personal worth, they become motivated to secure that worth in other ways. And one of those ways can be that of making an impact upon their immediate environment or society through taking a stand on some "Christian" issue. Now I am not saying, of course, that all of those who take a stand on such issues as pornography, violence, and other serious moral problems are motivated to do so because of a "martyr complex". That would be foolish to suggest and foolish to deduce. But it must be seen that some Christians strike out on issues, not because of an overriding concern for Christian values, but because of the satisfaction they get out of being noticed. And when being noticed leads to severe persecution, they draw from this the emotional charge they need to compensate for their low sense of worth. Such people almost court suffering and persecution, but it has to be said that they are not suffering for righteousness' sake -- they are suffering for their own sake.

http://www.crosswalk.com/faith/devotion ... view=print

I must say that when I am unsure of the something, I look it up and research it a little before I say anything about it. I want to make sure I have a good understanding of the issue and that I'm not talking out of my own behind. I looked up the "matry complex" and read a few things about it in a few different places.From what I found out, I'd say it fits Miss Lizzie perfectly. It could be a good explaination for why she chose to stay in Fall River, even though she was an outcast of it's society. Good call Kat.

monarchrn · Post by **monarchrn** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:32 pm

What he may be trying to do is make sure that he will always have that food he longed for as a child, those new clothes he never got, the toys, etc. And that his children will always have them also. Maybe he is overcompensating for what he never had. Yes, I believe the person should use their experiences to help themselves become a better person. But it is not always so easy to move on. Abuse leaves scars. Mental as well as physical. If the reason Audrey doesn't think so highly of him was that he was either obnoxious, crude, self absorbed, or something of that nature, thats totally understandable that she feels that way. Everybody has good in them, everybody has self worth.

Well put Allen...I totally agree with u here..I think these very same thoughts...

wintressanna · Post by **wintressanna** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:31 pm

Hi I know I come out kinda harsh. I really do understand what is being said and I sympathize with the outreach of sympathy, but for my own peace of mind, and yes I have been abused, I have to speak out to make a somewhat subtle but important distinction. I know there are those who blame the abused for what happened to them, this seems to be a natural reaction rejecting the distastefulness of the crime, and even those who have been abused themselves sometimes react this way as a means to lighten the burden of their own conscience because they still in part blame themselves. I am not one of these. This distinction is that as human beings although developing under a distress that doesnt exist in other circumstances, abuse victims are virtually the same as everyone else. None of us grew up in paradise. Yes this distress is important and has distinguishable effects which deserve recognition and understanding, but it does not change the fact that a person is responsible for whether or not he/she perceives the world as a hostile place where you have to take what you can get and con, manipulate, and/or intimidate others or whether or not you appreciate the validity of moral values or those honorable qualities of compassion, forgiveness, and love that unifies human society towards great things. How you grow up makes it easier to absorb one perspective or the other, but it is also a matter of personality, genetics, and other influences all meshed together that contribute to our ultimate decisions about which we choose, or rather the degree to which we choose one over the other in specific circumstances. It is a matter of my peace of mind that being abused does not mean I have to remain a victim, nor is it valuable to me anymore to suffer pain inflicted on me by another human being for sake of their own internal suffering. Thats where the martyr complex fell in-- I really didnt know it was an actual term. I hate to disclose too much personal information, but I know what its like to believe you can help someone through their pain by being there for them despite the fact that they hurt you. But its just not true. A person in pain is wrong to inflict pain on others, no matter how much sympathy you feel towards them. A person is wrong to stay with another person who hurts no matter how much pain they are in...Why? Because what is loving is to demonstrate that the effective way to deal with the stresses of living is to find that you have the strength and beauty within you to grow up and take responsibility.

So yes, Dave had a terrible time as a kid. And yes, he seems to have grown up from those experiences. Audrey's experiences with him may, or may not, have anything to do with what happened to him as a kid. Maybe he overcompensates, maybe he would naturally be a little greedy anyway regardless of what he suffered as a kid. The abuse does not define who he is, nor everything about him. Thats just it.

monarchrn · Post by **monarchrn** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:50 pm

Thank you Wintressa for sharing all that...That could not have been easy for you. I agree with you.. I just thought it in bad taste to judge because someone doesn't act the way one thought he should, or to expect so much from someone...that they could have done this or that, as though what he had already done was not enough. It can be hard when everyone wants a piece of you, sometimes doesn't leave much for you or your family That just upset me very much. I think it is great when someone having lived thru something like this grows to live a fairly normal life in society. I mean if u read the books u know that his struggle did not stop when he was removed from his mother, the views on foster children were horrible back then. So he was a very strong person. He did decide to help abused children, to me thats enough. I know i have a sister who has 5 children, and she lived away for some time,they were poor, and sometimes didn't have enough money, to this day even when there is plenty, they fight for things, they are all overweight. I think once you have experienced having to fight for something, you never lose that. Even when you know you don't have to do it, it just becomes a natural part of you. Thats why i feel that Dave Pelzer over compensates. And i'm sure having money makes him feel more acceptable to society, because an F-child as it were called (foster) was unacceptable in society, they were looked down upon. I'm sure today that there are still scars from this.

So say he is driving down the road in his Jaguar..people notice and this makes him feel good. I see no harm in this. I just think its great that he helps at all, I mean he didn't have to, its not like it was his responsibility or anything to do it, thats all I'm saying...

wintressanna · Post by **wintressanna** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:26 pm

You have made a fine point, spoken so eloquently it really touched me. Thanks for that. The foster care system still struggles quite a bit with prejudice. Some time ago a reputable foster care agency made a bid to open up a residential home for disabled children within town limits, and their bid was shot down with great public outcry. The general public opinion was basically that they didnt want kids with emotional problems anywhere near their kids, which is based on a false premise. Sure this agency might place some of their clients here from areas nearer to their other branches, but the agency's purpose in opening up this new branch, since this agency has branches all over the New England area anyway, was to serve clients from this area. The kids are here and need help, not to see the back of another door closed in their face. I worked with this agency in its branches in nearby towns for a little while, and we experienced some problems from the most unexpected source...the local police, which viewed our clients with suspicion. Not major problems, but it shocked me at the time because I thought the focus of community-oriented services would be the prevention of crime and social disturbance rather than segregating certain members of the community as suspect prematurely. The scapegoats they may be, and unfortunately they are still more vulnerable to being used and manipulated by those who are supposed to be there to help them. That said there are also enough examples of neat saints who dedicate their lives to prooviding shelter from the storm in many a child's otherwise wearying upbringing to make the entire project most certainly worthwhile. It really is amazing what a few people unified with faith (not necessarily religious-based) and love to give can do.

monarchrn · Post by **monarchrn** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:56 pm

wintressanna wrote:You have made a fine point, spoken so eloquently it really touched me. Thanks for that. The foster care system still struggles quite a bit with prejudice. Some time ago a reputable foster care agency made a bid to open up a residential home for disabled children within town limits, and their bid was shot down with great public outcry. The general public opinion was basically that they didnt want kids with emotional problems anywhere near their kids, which is based on a false premise. Sure this agency might place some of their clients here from areas nearer to their other branches, but the agency's purpose in opening up this new branch, since this agency has branches all over the New England area anyway, was to serve clients from this area. The kids are here and need help, not to see the back of another door closed in their face. I worked with this agency in its branches in nearby towns for a little while, and we experienced some problems from the most unexpected source...the local police, which viewed our clients with suspicion. Not major problems, but it shocked me at the time because I thought the focus of community-oriented services would be the prevention of crime and social disturbance rather than segregating certain members of the community as suspect prematurely. The scapegoats they may be, and unfortunately they are still more vulnerable to being used and manipulated by those who are supposed to be there to help them. That said there are also enough examples of neat saints who dedicate their lives to prooviding shelter from the storm in many a child's otherwise wearying upbringing to make the entire project most certainly worthwhile. It really is amazing what a few people unified with faith (not necessarily religious-based) and love to give can do.

Amen...

Do you think these children will ever be treated the way they should be by society? It's very sad.