The Life of Lizzie Andrew Borden

rajax · Post by **rajax** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:15 pm

Greetings:

I'm so glad I found this forum!

I am currently working on a book about History's Wicked Women, to be published by Avalon in 2006. It is essentially an anthology of the biographies of women who are notorious and largely considered to be "wicked" by society. That they are considered wicked is more important for inclusion than if they actually committed the crimes they were accused of (many didn't). I have not yet made up my mind about Lizzie Borden.

I am trying to find out more about the life of Lizzie Borden before 1892. Few biographies focus on this, and I was wondering if anyone could suggest a good, reliable source of what her life was like, and who she was, before the murders.

I am also interested in the fact that she is often considered an archetypal Victorian spinster--in her thirties, unmarried, still living at home with her parents, with little or no prospect of creating her own family. I believe that plays a part in how her story has been told. Any information about her love life--or stories of lesbianism--would be of great interest to me.

please feel to write to comment or ask me any questions. I'm enjoying the writing of the lizzie borden chapter very much!

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:19 pm

Hi Rajax, ha if we knew all those answers we'd be
writing our own books, nobody knows. Good luck to
you and wecome to the forum.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:10 pm

Lizzie was not considered wicked before the murders. She was a church enthusiast and worked in charities. She was anti-alcohol as a member of the Young Woman's Christian Temperence Union.

There is not a lot of information on her before the murders.
Most of it would be found in Leonard Rebello's book: Lizzie Borden Past & Present.

It was after the killings, when she moved to French Street, changed her name to Lizbeth, consorted with an actress, Nance O'Neil, and Emma left her, that she gained what might be considered a *wicked* reputation.
The children in the neighborhood supposedly treated her house as *the haunted house*, the one they dare each other to trespass upon. In 1897, there were new headlines about her: *Lizzie Again.* It told the story of missing items from Tilden-Thurber and so there was some rumor of Lizzie's shoplifting propensities.

I think once upstanding Emma left Lizzie, Fall River gave up on her. They probbly thought Emma must have had a good reason to finally leave her sister.
I think all these things combined to make her officially seem "wicked", at least to Fall River society.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:45 am

What other women are you writing about?

Golaszewski · Post by **Golaszewski** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:47 pm

Kat @ Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:10 am wrote:Lizzie was not considered wicked before the murders. She was a church enthusiast and worked in charities. She was anti-alcohol as a member of the Young Woman's Christian Temperence Union.

And I notice the OP mentions "women who are notorious and largely considered to be "wicked" by society." That would have required that Lizzie be on the media radar screen to be regarded so "notorious and largely" by the people. Lizzie attracted little attention before the murders. For what little notice she did get, it was all of the "respectable" type.

rajax · Post by **rajax** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:57 pm

hi all:

I think there's been some confusion. I don' t mean to argue that Lizzie was considered wicked before the murders, but simply that she is considered a "wicked woman" now. However, since I'm writing biographies, I need to know more about the woman behind the story. If you haven't noticed, all stories about Lizzie Borden almost exclusively deal with the murder, and not much about her as a person--unless to answer the question "did she do it?" That in itself is interesting--that the way the story is structured, Lizzie Borden only really came to life (figuratively, and maybe in her own way) on the day of the murder.

I'm also looking for an article written by Denise Noe called Lizzie Borden and the Spinster Mystique, which was written for the Lizzie Borden Quarterly. Does anyone have access to this or know how to get a back issue?

thanks for all your insights!

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:14 pm

Hi, rajax, and welcome.

When I needed a copy of a Lizzie Borden Quarterly story, my local library was able to have the story faxed over from the library of Bristol Community College in Fall River. Perhaps you can get it directly from BCC, but since my mother works at Fairhaven's library, she phoned the BCC library for me.

Then, some forum members might have it in their collections and get a copy to you.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:37 pm

Hi!
I've forwarded your request about Noe's article to Stefani who will contact her. Noe is a staff writer on The Hatchet.
Do try Len Rebello's book for stories of Lizzie from before the murders. The anecdotes come from newspaper
*interviews* with friends and family which may or may not have occurred.
You also might try the archives here as a lot of this is posted there.
Click on "Archives" on the first page at the top there.

Who else has interested you for your bios?

rajax · Post by **rajax** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:40 pm

hi all..

some of the other women in the book are Lucrezia Borgia, Mata Hari, Bloody Mary, Marie Laveau (the voodoo priestess of New Orleans) and Bonnie Parker. They are all fascinating women in their own ways.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:50 pm

I think there is something on Bonnie Parker at the FBI's Freedom of Information Act website.
Does anyone know the link?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:07 pm

viewtopic.php?t=92&start=0

If I come across a thread about Lizzie before the murders I will put it here.
Anyone else may do so if they like?

viewtopic.php?t=71

viewtopic.php?t=298

viewtopic.php?t=295&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=25

viewtopic.php?t=377&start=0

viewtopic.php?t=297&start=0

viewtopic.php?t=404

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:20 pm

I had read something with a reference to Lizzie Borden on their site awhile back, it can be found the reading room, and is under the Freedom of Information -Privacy Act. I had a hard time making out just exactly what was meant by what is said in the parentheses there...anyone gets a chance to look at it and figures it out let me know. As for Bonnie Parker I did not see a reference to her there anywhere. Maybe I just overlooked it though?

http://foia.fbi.gov/alpha.htm

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:57 pm

From my trip to New Orleans, I learned the the Marie Laveau that we have heard of being the Voodoo Queen...was NOT wicked, but her daughter, ALSO named Marie Laveau WAS the wicked one. I have never researched either one however.

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:00 pm

Thanks, Allen!
I thought she was on there. Maybe she fell off?
I don't get it.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:23 pm

http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/bonclyd.htm

What you're looking for may be here. It's only three pages, tho...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:29 pm

Wow cool, DougOh! How'd you find that?

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:33 pm

Good that you found that doug! It seems I did overlook it.

That site has some interesting information on it, about some equally interesting people.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:33 pm

Perhaps the most that ever appeared on Lizzie's early life was contained in an article in the Boston Herald, dated August 6, 1892. This is an extract:

"As a child she was of a very sensitive nature, inclined to be non-communicative with new acquaintances, and this characteristic has tenaciously clung to her all through life, and has been erroneously interpreted.
Her sister, being older, was a constant guide and an idolized companion. An unusual circumstance is that of her practically having no choice of friends until she attained womanhood.
At the usual age she was sent to the Morgan street school, embracing primary and grammar grades.
Her school days were perhaps unlike most girls in this lack of affiliation with her fellow pupils.
As a scholar she was not remarkable for brilliancy, but she was conscientious in her studies and with application always held a good rank in her class. She entered the high school when about 15 or 16 years old. ... Her life was uneventful during the few years following her leaving school. She abandoned her piano music lessons because, although making encouraging progress, she conceived the idea that she was not destined to become a good musician.
If she could not excel in this accomplishment she did not wish to pursue the study, and so her friends heard her play thereafter but little. Her father and mother were religious and regular church attendants, and she has been surrounded by Christian Home Influences. .... She was, however, a girl with anything but an enthusiastic idea of her own personal attainments.
She thought people were not favorably disposed toward her and that she made a poor impression.
This conduced to the acceptance of this very opinion among church people, and consequently the young woman was to some extent avoided by the young women of the church. There was a remarkable change in her some five years ago and at that time she first began to fraternize with church people.
Then, of course, when she was thoroughly understood, when the obnoxiously retiring manner was dissipated and the responsive nature of the girl came to view, she became at once popular and then came the acquisition of the friends who today sound her praises."

The reporter claimed to have interviewed Lizzie's friends but cites no specific names.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:50 pm

Great link Doug...THANKS !

Tracy...

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:57 pm

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFFFF!!!

(Translation: Sa'right!

)

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:03 pm

How did I find it?? Just lucky I guess... Could be an Irish setter kinda thing!!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:37 am

Allen @ Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:20 pm wrote:I had read something with a reference to Lizzie Borden on their site awhile back, it can be found the reading room, and is under the Freedom of Information -Privacy Act. I had a hard time making out just exactly what was meant by what is said in the parentheses there...anyone gets a chance to look at it and figures it out let me know.

http://foia.fbi.gov/alpha.htm

The Lizzie Borden Connection to the FBI was covered in an interesting investigative article in The Hatchet, April/May, 2004.
Written by Harry Widdows and a collaboration with our Fall River Lad, Mark Amarantes, with a little input from Mr. Bertolet and Susan Magliaro found the original source..

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:06 am

Thanks Har for the Herald article. It turns out it is within the last link to a selected topic which I posted earlier. I think we passed each other!

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:22 am

[quote="Kat @ Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:37 pmThe Lizzie Borden Connection to the FBI was covered in an interesting investigative article in The Hatchet, April/May, 2004.
Written by Harry Widdows and a collaboration with our Fall River Lad, Mark Amarantes, with a little input from Mr. Bertolet and Susan Magliaro found the original source..

[/quote]

I remember that! Never got to read the article though, what was the final outcome if any?

Haulover · Post by **Haulover** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:56 am

there are interesting anecdotes in the Radin book from fall river people who remember lizzie, though you'll have to judge their veracity for yourself.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:08 pm

It got complicated trying to figure out to what the letter alluded. Ask Harry for the details

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:43 am

Ah, believe it or not, I actually have the original details from Harry! I didn't know I still had it way in the back of my email account, I'm such a packrat. I'm still curious if The Hatchet article contained any new info, it was an intriguing find that the FBI had anything whatsoever about Lizzie after all these years!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:53 am

Maybe he can send you the whole article. It's his copyright now. They traced the man who was mentioned in the letter/ the court case.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:13 am

Really? How cool! It was one of the items that was blacked out in the original letter, enough to drive a Bordenite over the edge.