HABEMUS PAPAM !

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:52 am

Cardinal John Ratzinger of Germany is now Pope Benedict XVI. May he do great works !

Tracy...

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:56 pm

I know my Immortal soul is probably damned now, but, when I first heard the new Pope's name it sounded like John Ratzenberger (the actor) and I got the giggles over it! Sorry, Tracy.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:15 pm

Susan!!!

Gotta love it, hehe.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:35 pm

He seems to come with quite a reputation...the Vatican's 'Rottweiler'. I hope he is a little more flexible than what CNN and the rest are saying he's going to be. I was actually pulling for the Cardinal from Nigeria, or one of the Cardinals from Latin America.

Tracy...

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:12 pm

daylight come and me wanna go home...

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:36 am

I heard the most bizarre thing on the radio today about the new Pope. According to Revelations, he is supposed to be an evil man. Does anyone know anything about this or know anything about Revelations?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:31 am

I hadn't heard that. He looks odd tho.
I did hear on the news during the congress that it was said if there was a black pope the end was near. It would be a sign of Armageddon (sp) or whatever.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:36 am

Isn't that what the Book of Revelations is about; Armageddon, and how it will come about? I don't have a bible handy to look it up. Maybe the newscaster that I heard got their facts screwed up?

Smudgeman · Post by **Smudgeman** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:51 am

Why did they elect such an old pope? He is 78 I think, looks like they will be looking for another one in the near future. I am sure he is capable of doing a good job, it just seems to me his age should have been a factor when nominating him?

Haulover · Post by **Haulover** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:37 am

***I heard the most bizarre thing on the radio today about the new Pope. According to Revelations, he is supposed to be an evil man. Does anyone know anything about this or know anything about Revelations?***

i know the book of revelation, sure. i've read commentaries, analyses...i've studied it. it's basically a prophecy written in code--deliberately secretive. now how far one delves into the symbology and whether they know what they're doing--that's the confusion.

i'd be curious to know what exactly was cited for that conclusion about the pope.

anyway, the bottom line is you start with an opinion you wish to promote -- then you look for an image/word/symbol that can be made to seem fitting.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:50 am

Why did they elect such an old pope? He is 78 I think, looks like they will be looking for another one in the near future. I am sure he is capable of doing a good job, it just seems to me his age should have been a factor when nominating him?

I had actually wondered about the age factor myself. The most sensible explanation I've heard is that the Church is presently in a time of transition - that further change is needed and must come in time, but not yet.

It's really difficult to tell tho. If the length of his reign is to serve as a yardstick, Benedict XVI has as much potential for shepherding positive changes as did John XXIII, who "planted the seeds" of the Second Vatican Council (for example) but did not live to see them bear fruit.

Whether Benedict will be such a shepherd no one can say. But he does at least have that potential despite his age.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:40 pm

[quote="Haulover @ Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:37 am]i know the book of revelation, sure. i've read commentaries, analyses...i've studied it. it's basically a prophecy written in code--deliberately secretive. now how far one delves into the symbology and whether they know what they're doing--that's the confusion.

i'd be curious to know what exactly was cited for that conclusion about the pope.

anyway, the bottom line is you start with an opinion you wish to promote -- then you look for an image/word/symbol that can be made to seem fitting.[/quote]

Thanks, Eugene. So, basically it sounds as though one could pretty much read into it whatever one wanted to? The newscaster I heard was vague, she pretty much just said that "according to the Book of Revelations, this Pope is supposed to be a bad man, an evil Pope if you will" and that was pretty much it. Her fellow newscaster went on to say that he was hoping that the guy from Nigeria was his favorite and had hoped he would have been voted in.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:44 pm

ooops

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:21 pm

I am going to call my mom and check with her. She is a bit of an expert on things like this. Right now she and her husband are caretakers for our local convent/monastery. The nuns there are 'Benedictines'...the order started by St. Benedict, from whom the new Pope takes his name. I will ask her and see what she has to say.

Tracy...

Robert Harry · Post by **Robert Harry** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:15 pm

In a former life, I did quite a bit of serious scripture study in a Catholic seminary. When it comes to the Bible, you have to distinguish how you want to read it. To serious scholars, it is impossible to take it "literally," without regard to the array of genres, styles and techniques used. The Catholic view is that the Bible in its entireity (sp?) communicates all that God wishes to reveal to humanity for our salvation. However, God reveals through a whole library of books--the Bible is a library, not a book, and it includes love poems, prophecy, historical accounts, stories, etc. The genre of the Book of Revelation is "apocalyptic"--a fantastic story that is something like "Star Wars"-- purposely written with mind-blowing imagery, allegory, violent imagery, exagerations, etc. not to be read as though it were "factually true," but which communicates a divine story about good and evil. To attempt to figure out "secret messages" about Popes is absurd. Revelation has nothing to do with the papacy, but with the evils of the Roman empire--seeing that the church was "at war" with the powers of the world. A lot of people today pick up the Bible and take it "literally." That would be like someone finding a copy of the Daily News a thousand years from now and reading it all as though it were factual, without distinguishing between the funnies, the editorials, the letters to the editor, the news reports, etc. Serious biblical scholars hold that to take the Bible literally does violence to the integrity of the various literary styles used. I know not all will agree--just trying to clarify.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:37 pm

Thank you, Robert Harry, good input! I wonder what makes people look in there and try to find doomsday scenarios for today? It made me think of the writings of Nostradamus and how some people decipher his cryptic messages to mean.

Robert Harry · Post by **Robert Harry** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:55 am

I think that people want certainty in times of confusion and rapid change. The early Christians thought the world was going to end and Jesus would come back to earth within their life times. THen, again, at different points in history, the same anticipation arose--notably around the year 1000 when they were sure it would be the end and the "rapture." And, of course, in our own day, there is that series of books about the end coming. MInd you, there is the clear teaching in the Bible that some day there will be a final culmination, but it is open to interpretation how that will take place. At some point in history, some people interpreted the prophecies in Revelation to refer to the Catholic Papacy--some (still) hold that the Book of Revelation describes the pope as the "anti-Christ," and therefore some might try to guess how "evil" a pope might be. In my opinion, this way of reading scripture is ludicrous, and not a little anti-Catholic. Actually, the prophecies refer to the evil Roman emperors (like Nero and Caligula) and the horrible fate that awaits those who worship the false idols of earthly power, greed, and self-aggrandizement.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:23 pm

In speaking with my mom, the 'ultra-Catholic extraordinaire', she said nearly the same thing as Robert Harry.

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:18 pm

I heard the most bizarre thing on the radio today about the new Pope. According to Revelations, he is supposed to be an evil man. Does anyone know anything about this or know anything about Revelations?

--Susan

And

Kat @ Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:31 am wrote:I hadn't heard that. He looks odd tho.
I did hear on the news during the congress that it was said if there was a black pope the end was near. It would be a sign of Armageddon (sp) or whatever.

I just Googled "Black Pope." Apparently the news media were a mite confused. A quote from one site:

"Today, who is the Superior General of the Jesuits, the so-called “Black Pope” [black here refers to hidden, evil activities, not to race or color] who gives the orders to the actual Pope. Is it still Jean-Baptist Janssens?"

Wordweaver · Post by **Wordweaver** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:59 pm

Kat @ Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:18 pm wrote: I just Googled "Black Pope." Apparently the news media were a mite confused. A quote from one site:

"Today, who is the Superior General of the Jesuits, the so-called “Black Pope” [black here refers to hidden, evil activities, not to race or color] who gives the orders to the actual Pope. Is it still Jean-Baptist Janssens?"

Actually, the leader of the Jesuits --more properly the Superior General of the Society of Jesus--s called the Black Pope for the color of his cassock. For the past 20-odd years he has been Peter-Hans Kolvenbach, whose writings I've read. Nothing he says suggests that he's the kind of person who would order the attack on the World Trade Center, using Nazi Zionist CIA Freemasons as his agents. (See the Vatican Assassins website -- there really are people who believe this tripe.)

I ran across that black=evil, secret, etc., quotation a number of times on the Internet, but it's based on some loony conspiracy-theory paranoia about the Roman Catholic Church--right about on the level of David Icke, who believes that our government is actually run by reptiles from outer space.

Jesuits tend to be be profound scholars interested in the way their faith can be expressed through social justice and education.

The reason the official Pope (Bishop of Rome) wears white is that four hundred years or so ago, a Dominican was elected Pope, who continued to wear his white cassock. (The Dominicans are known as the Dogs of God -- a Latin pun on their name.)

I have my concerns about the new pope, but I don't really worry that (A) he's plotting to take over the world or (B) that he turns into a snake when nobody's watching.

What I suspect the newscasters were discussing (in some confusion) was a bizarre mingling of the fundamentalist protestant identification of the Pope with the Beast of Revelation (and the Catholic church with the Whore of Babylon) with the prophecies of St. Malachi. He was a saint who made a list about 900 years ago -- ostensibly predicting the characteristics of all the coming popes until the end of time. Pray that Benedict XVI lives to be 150 or so. The new pope (formerly Cardinal Ratzinger) is next-to-last on the list.

Here are the last two prophecies from a site that lists the final ten Popes:

9. The Glory of the Olive. The Order of St. Benedict has said this Pope will come from their order. It is interesting that Jesus gave his apocalyptic prophecy about the end of time from the Mount of Olives. This Pope will reign during the beginning of the tribulation Jesus spoke of. The 111th prophesy is "Gloria Olivae" (The Glory of the Olive). The Order of Saint Benedict has claimed that this pope will come from their ranks. Saint Benedict himself prophesied that before the end of the world his Order, known also as the Olivetans, will triumphantly lead the Catholic Church in its fight against evil.

10. PETER THE ROMAN - This final Pope will likely be Satan, taking the form of a man named Peter who will gain a worldwide allegiance and adoration. He will be the final antichrist which prophecy students have long foretold. If it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. The 112th prophesy states: "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Petrus Romanus, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End."[/1]

Some references:

The Vatican Assassins theory of the Jesuits: http://www.vaticanassassins.org/ny_attack.htm
David Icke: http://www.davidicke.com/icke/temp/reptconn.html
Society of Jesus (international site): http://www.sjweb.info/index.cfm
Society of Jesus (US site): http://www.jesuit.org/
Prophecies of St. Malachi: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rel ... 1430/posts
and source of the quotations above: http://www.crystalinks.com/papalprophecies.html

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:21 pm

Very Good you guys! Very interesting. Thanks.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:29 am

Yes, thanks for all the great input, gang!

I hate hearing half-baked stories on the news where they can't even explain why they are saying what they do, just repeating things, but, not clarifying the issue.