A Fish Story

[Kat]

The Fall River Globe made some mention of those Fish, of whom we know not much. For some reason, I had thought maybe Priscilla Fish might be the "company" which Abby was supposedly expecting on Monday. She was Abby's full sister.

The Globe had a few things to offer about the Fish family, which I believe was a step-family to Priscilla. I think when she married, Mr. Fish already had children and they togeher as a couple had not any. I didn't know he was a RR man. This is dated August 9, 1892:

"MR. FISH’S BELIEF.

He Tells of the Differences in the
Family.

HARTFORD, Conn., Aug. 9. – The Post this morning says of the Borden tragedy at Fall River:

Mrs. Borden has a sister living in Hartford at 48 Bellevue street, although now absent in Fall River. She is the wife of George B. Fish, a yard tally man on the N.Y., N. H. & H. R. R.

When a Post reporter called at the family residence this morning, he found that Mrs. Fish, her son, George H. Fish, and her grandson, Frederick S. Fish, were all in Fall River, but George B. Fish, her husband, was at home. He, too, would have gone down on the receipt of the terrible news, but his health would not permit, as he has not been feeling well for a week and did not care to risk it.

At the time the murder was committed his son, George H., and his wife, were visiting his wife’s parents near Fall River, a Mr. and Mrs. Sperry, and upon the receipt of the news, went directly to Fall River. Mrs. Fish and her grandson went directly from Hartford. Mr. Fish was very willing to talk, although he knew but little except what he had read in the papers. He had thought the matter over and over again, and the more he thought of the more it seemed to him that Lizzie Borden was the guilty one. It seems that Mrs. Borden was not the real mother of the two daughters, Lizzie and Emma, but was Mr. Borden’s second wife. They have never been on the best of terms, and in the house have merely been civil to Mr. Borden’s second wife, and nothing more.

The cause of this unpleasantness was over a division of some property which the girl’s mother had left to Mr. Borden, who had given it to his second wife instead of the daughters. It was a house valued at perhaps $1000, and Mr. Fish said it was an absurdly small sum for them to quarrel about, as they had all the money they could spend and went to Europe whenever they wanted to go. Mr. Fish does not think that Lizzie herself did the deed, but that she and Morse concocted the scheme and hired some one else to do it. When asked what her object would have been in doing this, Mr. Fish replied: 'Simply to get them out of the way. No one made any money out of it, nor could they in any way by murdering the couple.' Mrs. Fish is expected home tonight."
__________________

--This is saying that Abby's step-nephew and his wife were very near Fall River on the day of the murder. I hope they had a good alibi!

[Edisto]

I'd be hesitant to believe anything this guy Fish said, inasmuch as his information seems to be erroneous (Fishy?) in several particulars. He may well be one of the reasons why Lizzie fell under suspicion. Recently I was giving one of my sons a brief synopsis of the Borden case. When I finished, he said, "I don't understand why they even suspected her." I went over some of the reasons why the police claimed she was the prime suspect, and he still couldn't understand it. Certainly the fact that Lizzie said, "She isn't my mother; she's my stepmother," didn't strike him as a very good reason!

[Tina-Kate]

I had a little chuckle over his remark -- "...they had all the money they could spend and went to Europe whenever they wanted to go." You really do have to take things that relatives say about each other with a pinch of salt. I've been ticked off myself numerous times in having been misquoted or being portrayed by one relative to another through their own point of view, rather than what was really the truth. I'm sure just about everybody has had these experiences at one time or another. It is disappointing, however, we don't have more *extended* family statements to go on. I'm surprised there weren't more newspaper interviews with just about everyone. But, didn't the idea of Abby supposedly having guests only come from Lizzie's Inquest statements? If there's no other source, that could be as fictional as the infamous note.

[Allen]

I had a little chuckle over his remark -- "...they had all the money they could spend and went to Europe whenever they wanted to go." You really do have to take things that relatives say about each other with a pinch of salt. I've been ticked off myself numerous times in having been misquoted or being portrayed by one relative to another through their own point of view, rather than what was really the truth. I'm sure just about everybody has had these experiences at one time or another. It is disappointing, however, we don't have more *extended* family statements to go on. I'm surprised there weren't more newspaper interviews with just about everyone. But, didn't the idea of Abby supposedly having guests only come from Lizzie's Inquest statements? If there's no other source, that could be as fictional as the infamous note.

Yes, I have definitely had the same thing happen to me with not only family members but with friends as well. It's like a snowball sometimes. You say one thing, and the person you spoke to adds to it, and then the person they tell adds to it, and so on down the line. I've heard stories about things I've supposedly said or done that have really left me scratching my head, or worse fighting mad! Even though most of the story should be taken with a grain of salt, it did start out with the truth. That grain of truth is usually still in there...somewhere. I'll usually find myself saying something like "Yes, I did say that, but it wasn't meant in that context" .Or, "I did say that but the rest is a bunch of bull." Lizzie did go to Europe, just not "whenever she wanted." (Sounds like a bit of jealousy talking to me.) The whole feud with Abby and the girls did start over property given to her by Andrew. It's just hard to separate the grains of truth from the embellishments.

[Kat]

You guys are great! Thanks for the opinions.

Here is what Morse supposedly had to say in reply to the Hartford, Conn. item:
Fall River Globe, Aug. 9, 1892
"AN ABSURD CHARGE."

"Mr. Morse Pronounces Fish's Story
'Entirely Unreasonable.'

The story dated Hartford, Conn., was shown to Mr. John V. Morse by a reporter yesterday afternoon.

'What have you got to say in regard to that?' asked the reporter.

'Nothing at all. Mr. Jennings, our counsel, has advised me to have nothing to say for publication,' he replied.

'But that directly implicates you and Miss Borden. Have you nothing to say to that?'

'You know as well as I do what grounds there are for such an absurd charge as that. It is entirely unreasonable. That is all I will say.' "

--Sounds like a public viewing of certain factions of the family and their conflicts. The press was smart to start stirring things up.

Then, on the 10th, same paper, we have:

The Fall River Daily Globe, Wednesday, August 10, 1892, page 2

"YESTERDAY'S LATEST."

"HAVE NO THEORY."

"Fish Family Disagree with
the Grandfather.

Do Not Believe Lizzie and Morse
Concocted the Deed.

Providence Crank Arrests Two Persons
for the Borden Murders.

HARTFORD, Conn., Aug. 9 -- Fred S. Fish and the grandson of Mrs. Geo. B. Fish, who is the sister of the murdered Mrs. Borden of Fall River, has just returned from the funeral of Mr. and Mrs. Borden, which he attended with his grandmother.

He says that the members of the family do not agree with his grandfather, George B. Fish, that Lizzie Borden and J. V. Morse concocted the murder of Mr. and Mrs. Borden.

The other members of the Fish family disagree with Geo. B. Fish but have no theory to advance."

--Boy, you just can't leave an ailing George Fish alone for one minute!

--Priscilla lost her one full sister,
and died only 2 years later. She lived long enough to be dragged through the scandal of a trial of her step-niece, Lizzie. What a way to leave this earth!

--Rebello, p23:
"1. Priscilla B. Gray, born in 1820, and died January 25, 1894.
m. George H. Fish, died in January 4, 1894."

[Susan]

Thanks for the interesting stuff on the Fish family, Kat. Wow, can you imagine how uncomfortable that funeral must have been with that story circulating and having Fish family members there? Can you imagine the daggers that were shot over by Lizzie, Emma and Morse? Yikes!

[Tina-Kate]

I was thinking of yr "looking daggers" comment, Susan. The funeral was held at the Borden house & presumably Fishes et al were there. Does anyone remember a mention that at the cemetery no one got out of the carriages except the pallbearers & clergy? Am I remembering this right?

[Kat]

I think Morse got out. But I think you're right that pretty much no one got out.
It's a good thing too, because they weren't buried after all, right?

Harry found something very interesting! There was info in the papers as to misconceptions about the proper rules of inheritance under Massachusetts Commonwealth law.
It's very complicated! Not as cut and dried as we thought.

Maybe he will find it and post it.
If those family members (all gathered) thought the law was one thing, and found out later it was another (more complicated) it could cause some more harsh feelings!
I think The Whiteheads might have expected something under the law as they understood it.

[Kat]

From The FRGlobe, on Aug. 11, on a Whitehead problem:

"MARSHAL HILLIARD

Tells the Reporters of the Clues He
Has Exploded."

..." Early this morning the last of the Westport horsetrader clue was cleared up. I sent for the suspect and he came in and made his report. His name is Persley S. Cooper and he establishes beyond controversy the fact that he was in New Bedford at 10 o'clock on the morning of the tragedy. You may further state if you care to do so that I am sparing no money in this matter, and that I shall continue in my present course until somebody above me calls a halt.

This morning I received a note from Mrs. Whitehead of No.11 Division street, in which she made reference to what Mrs. Walker had been reported as having said to her. The note read: 'I emphatically deny that I ever said that I was afraid of Mrs. Walker.'

At this point in the interview District Attorney Knowlton and Miss White came in. Mr. Knowlton said jocosely:
'Have you heard the new orders?'
'No,' replied the Marshal, 'what are they?'
'Suppress all reporters. Can't you lock them up?'
'Yes, but I shall be compelled to put ten in a cell in order to have room.'
'All right, put them all away.'
Than the two men disappeared into the private office."

--Does anyone know about this Mrs. Walker incident?

[Tina-Kate]

I don't know but this may have some connection (from Phil. Harrington, Witness Statements, page 13) -- "Thos. Walker, a tailor employed by John Carey, lived in a tenement of Mrs. Borden's on 4th Street. He was ordered out, and R. S. Reed's store took his furniture. He worked all day Thursday, so says Mr. Carey. Walker said he had no feeling against Mr. Borden. What trouble he had was caused by himself. He said he went on a drunk, and could not pay his bills, so he had to vacate the tenement and return the furniture, which was purchased on the installment plan." -- A tenement of *MRS* Borden's?? The Whitehead House was 45 4th Street, so perhaps these were tenants there??

[Tina-Kate]

I just noticed we have Mrs Whitehead above living @ "11 Division Street". I always just assumed the Whiteheads were living in that house Abby owned.

[Tina-Kate]

I don't know where Division Street is. But we have Phil. Harrington describing 4th Street as a *tenement*. Imagine, however, if the Whitehead's moved out of the 4th Street house after Andrew bought it in Abby's name...& perhaps to a *better* house with modern plumbing, gaslight, or even electricity! Talk about the salt that would have been rubbed in THAT wound!

[Tina-Kate]

OK, this proves the connection, but just adds to my confusion -- (from Fall River Herald, Aug 10 or 11 [undated] - *Sourcebook* pg 47:

***Thomas Walker, 11 Division street, went to the station to say that the statement published concerning trouble with the Whiteheads was not true. He had with him a note from Mrs. Whitehead which said: "I emphatically deny that I said I was afraid of Mr. Walker."***

Egads, who lived where?

[Kat]

Wow, TK you've been busy!
Thanks for all the references!
Abby's stepmother, did move out, right? I mean, she sold her share to Andrew and moved? But she was Jane Gray.
So who is that at Division Street, who had some contretempts with these Walkers?
A sister or sister-in-law of Mr. Whitehead?

[Kat]

Fall River City Directory, 1889:
Name:   George W. Whitehead
Location 2:   house 45 Fourth
Occupation:   teamster
Year:   1889
City:   Fall River
State:   MA
________
1890. "Location 1" means where he works:

Name:   George W. Whitehead
Location 1:   30 Second
Location 2:   house 45 Fourth
Occupation:   teamster
Year:   1890
City:   Fall River
State:   MA
_________
1891:
Name:   George W. Whitehead
Location 1:   30 Second
Location 2:   house 45 Fourth
Occupation:   teamster
Year:   1891
City:   Fall River
State:   MA

[Kat]

In 1890 City Directory I found a Thomas Walker at 37 Fifth Street, "operative"- whatever that is.

In 1891, I find Mrs. Thomas Walker at 37 Fifth, no Thomas.
Maybe they separated and he moved to Division St.?
He's not listed in 1889-1891 on Division Street.

In 1891 I find Mrs. Jane Walker at 14 Fourth Street.

The 1890 census was burned.

[Kat]

There a John W. Carey working as a "cutter" at 98 South Main Street, in 1891. Living at 173 "same location."
(That means he was living where he worked but that address where he lived was numbered 173).

I think a "cutter" and a "tailor" probably would work together?

[Kat]

Here's a snippet from Rebello, 128:

"Tenant's Story

'A Suggestive Hint,' New Bedford Daily Mercury, Wednesday, August 10, 1892: 1.

Officer Doherty and Harrington ran down the tenant's story. It appears that Thomas H. Walker, a tailor working for John Carr, owed Mr. Borden one month's rent for a house on Fourth Street. When asked to pay, Walker used threatening language. On the day of the murder, Walker worked steadily from 7 in the morning until 12 and could not possibly have been near the Borden homestead."

--Thanks, TK--I didn't think to look there!
But I didn't find any Thomas Walker on Fourth Street up until 1891.
I guess I should look for this "Carr" person, rather than a "Carey."

[Kat]

1889:
Name:   John B. Carr
Location 2:   house 70 Division
Business Name:   Am. Linen mill
Occupation:   engineer
Year:   1889
City:   Fall River
State:   MA
_______

Here they all are from the Directory. The latter names are usually the later year, 1891. The first time you see the name, it's usually 1889. When the name next repeats it's 1890, etc. (I normally click on each and get the year but this is a general survey of "Carr").

Name Location 1 Location 2 Occupation
John Carr   house 177 South Main fish dealer
John B. Carr   house 70 Division engineer
John E. Carr   boards 7 Spring mason
John E. Carr   house 116 Annawan mason
John F. Carr      
John Carr   house 177 South Main fish dealer
John B. Carr   house 76 William engineer
John E. Carr   boards 7 Spring lather
John E. Carr   boards 156 South Main mason
John Carr   house 177 South Main fish dealer
John Carr Bourne house 3 State avenue  
John B. Carr   house 78 Diman engineer
John E. Carr   boards 156 South Main mason

[Tina-Kate]

Thanks Kat -- I just got "lucky"; you were busier!! Hard to say if Jane Gray moved -- I understood the whole point of the sale of her 1/2 to Abby was to pay off her outstanding portion of the mortgage & secure her home. As a widow getting older, I would have thought she would have liked to stay living near her daughter, Sarah. But, there must have been some rental portion in that house, as Phil. Harrington refers to it as "a tenement". I guess since Rebello never found out which house it was, we don't have a good idea of the layout & how it could have been a multi-tenant dwelling. Carrs abound! I wonder if "Carey" in the Witness Statements is typo thru bad handwriting on Phil. Harrington's part. It seems Marshal Hilliard has "Mrs. Whitehead" living at 11 Division Street...the papers have Walker living there. The Directory has Geo Whitehead still @ 45 4th St. Yet the dispute MUST have been over the "Whitehead House" if it involved AJB.

[Kat]

There's info somewhere around here (from Rebello?) as to where Jane Gray moved.