I have always wandered why if Lizzie or the maid didn't do it and someone else did like lizzie claimed, why they didn't hear anything. I can buy that maybe someone was in the house that they knew, so they wouldn't hear a breakin, but they would hear them yelling if an axe was coming at them. Unless both Andrew and Abby were asleep and didn't see what was going , but someone would have had to let them in the house if there wasn't a break in. Another possibly could be that a friend of the family could have let themselves in, but the maid and lizzie were in and out of the house that day, wouldn't they have seen something before it was to late?
Just curious.
Robin
Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I will take my leave when I please.
I agree that the fact that nobody heard anything is another of the great mysteries of the case. I even wonder why nobody on the street or in neighboring houses heard anything. Using a hatchet, axe or cleaver to strike as many blows as were administered would have to be NOISY! I'm sure there was a considerable amount of racket on Second Street that day, as reflected in the fact that a number of potential witnesses were present about the time of the murders; however, it's passing strange that nobody heard anything. I doubt if Andrew had an opportunity to scream, but there's a possibility Abby did.
"To lose one parent...may be regarded as misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness."
-Oscar Wilde ("The Importance
of Being Earnest," 1895)
In a recent tour conducted by Ben at the Borden House, he actually fell to his knees and then went prostrate to demonstrate the noise. I was very impressed. It was very loud. It reverberated. You could feel it- in that wood floor. I think he said he weighed about 150 lbs.?
I own a three tenement in New Bedford, and based on my own house, the acoustics are weird. From the master bedroom, I can't hear anyone knocking on the backdoor and I can barely hear someone blowing a car horn out front, even when I am waiting for someone to pick me up. This is not true in other rooms.
In the summer with the windows opened, I hear a lot of street noises and more of what goes on in my next-door neighbors units than I really want to know.
It is all a fluke of location within the property. Kat, it sound like you were in the same room as Ben. It would be interesting to retry with you in the dining room or Bridget's quarters or the cellar. I think your impression of the loudness and the vibrations might change.
I agree. If I had known what he was about to sacrifivce his knees for, I might have excused myself to another room to get the benefit of another perspective.
However, maybe the murderer did not know about that room's acoustics. I surely didn't. If it was not a family member who was used to the room's noise or lack of carrying of noise, they might scare themselves into a panic at how loud Abby's fall was.
I have heard that in the past it took a long time for an outer door to be answered in the Borden House.
When I went to the Borden house my guide said that maybe Abby was kneeling at the foot of the bed tucking in one of the corners. The killer came in, she knew the killer so, she didn't scream. The killer walked over and struck the first blow which killed her and stopped her heart. Then Abby just sort of fell backward bumping her head on the dresser behind her and then just sort of toppled over. That would explain why the noise wasn't that great. Abby didn't fall from a standing up position.
One more thing on "noise." A long time ago I read Vincent Bugliosi's book on the Tate murders and in that he wrote about how there was all this noise going on. A gun went off, two people were outside the home running for their life etc. and yet, the neighbors claim they heard nothing. As I recall, he did write that off in the distant a boy scout or boy scout leader claimed he heard something. There was a young man living and working at the Tate residence and he claimed he heard nothing. So, the noise thing can be strange.
The Tate/Polanski place was a large, gated estate with a lot of ground around the house. That wasn't true of the Borden house. A gunshot sounds like a firecracker, maybe, but nineteen thwack-thwack-thwacks don't sound like much of anything except somebody wielding a hatchet or axe. Of course, that was a pretty familiar sound in those days. As Kat says, I would think the sound would reverberate and that the blows would actually shake the house, especially in Abby's case, since she was on a firm surface. Incidentally, if Abby was originally at the foot of the bed and toppled over backwards, as someone has suggested, how did her body get into its final position? Did the murderer drag her?
"To lose one parent...may be regarded as misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness."
-Oscar Wilde ("The Importance
of Being Earnest," 1895)
Ben was sort of leaning over when he went into his hypothetical recreation. He was fiddling with the foot of the bed area, and dropped to his knees.
The dropping to the knees from maybe 20", is what made the most noise. Still, falling forward also made noise.
Nothing was chopped in the recreation- I don't know how much noise that would make. I've no experience with hatchets.
But also, Abby apparently had 50 lbs on Ben, so I'd think that even starting from a kneeling position, Abby falling forward would be loud.
Again, if the murderer was from outside, how would they know that any of this noise wouldn't bring someone to check? It adds to the mystery.
I think whoever was in the house at the time certainly heard something, but Bridget outside the house probably did not. I know this has been brought up before, but I can't help but believe that the bodies of Andrew and Abby were posed. I have seen numerous crime scene photos, and the position of the bodies in this case look like the victims just layed there and took their punishment. Abby looks like she layed down on the floor in the prone position while being hacked, and Andrew looks like he is napping. Too perfect for me, I think the bodies were positioned. This to me says the killer knew the victims, a stranger wouldnt have taken the time to make everything look so neat and tidy after he or she unleashed such a brutal attack. It also makes me think at least 2 people were involved, I dont think 1 person would have the time or be so thourough in positioning the dead bodies.
Smudgeman--I agree with DWilly. From the photos I've seen of Abby's body, I always thought she had either been kneeling or forced to kneel before toppling over.
The only reservation I had about this was that in the often fictious writing of Victoria Lincoln, she had referred to Abby as an invalid. Something referred to as "muscular rheumatism" was prevalent at that time. I suspect heat/humidity effects on osteoarthritis.
There is something odd about the position of Abby's legs.
The body do look like they have been placed. I still can't help think that someone heard or saw something. I mean if the maid or lizzie didn't do it, then maybe they should have heard something.
Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I will take my leave when I please.
I have always wandered why if Lizzie or the maid didn't do it and someone else did like lizzie claimed, why they didn't hear anything. I can buy that maybe someone was in the house that they knew, so they wouldn't hear a breakin, but they would hear them yelling if an axe was coming at them. Unless both Andrew and Abby were asleep and didn't see what was going , but someone would have had to let them in the house if there wasn't a break in. Another possibly could be that a friend of the family could have let themselves in, but the maid and lizzie were in and out of the house that day, wouldn't they have seen something before it was to late? 
