Killing People

[InterestedReader]

This appeared in the papers a week before the murders:

'A Dangerous Beautifier.'

Enough Poison in One Bottle to Kill Half a Dozen Persons.

FALL RIVER, Mass., July the 21. - Miss Jesse Wood, clerk for Dr Lulu A. Moody, ladies' hairdresser, was fined $10 and costs in the district court for selling a bottle of Madame A. Ruppert's face bleach. State Agent McCaffrey paid Miss Wood $2 for the bottle, but its contents, he said, cost the manufacturer about 10 cents.

He said there was enough poison in one bottle of the bleach to kill seven persons. A certificate of analysis from the state chemist showed that each bottle contained 23 grains of corrosive sublimate. Three grains were a fatal dose to any adult.'

Burlington Weekly Free Press July 28 1892

There was so much toxic stuff around! The newspapers were full of ingenious ways to exterminate someone. Instead of messy hatchets or cyanide from pharmacists, Lizzie could have bought Abby a moustache 'beautifier'.
But perhaps Abby had no moustache.

[Steveads2004]

Do we believe Bence? I do. Three witnesses said it was Lizzie Borden that day trying to buy Prussic Acid. Not just 1 but 3!! It would have been very tough to sell a not guilty verdict if that evidence had been allowed. Lizzie is supposed to have said "I have bought it before" to Bence. When?? Right up to the 1980s when I was a young pharmacy clerk, druggists kept a special ledger book for poisons and controlled items. I remember looking through that book and reading the names of the people in town who had ever bought a poiso, what it was they bought and for what purpose. It went way back to the 1930s IIRC. BTW if we didn't know you, you got nothing so if she went to Bence with plans to sign a fake name, that would not have worked.

[Steveads2004]

Do we believe Bence? I do. Three witnesses said it was Lizzie Borden that day trying to buy Prussic Acid. Not just 1 but 3!! It would have been very tough to sell a not guilty verdict if that evidence had been allowed. Lizzie is supposed to have said "I have bought it before" to Bence. When?? Right up to the 1980s when I was a young pharmacy clerk, druggists kept a special ledger book for poisons and controlled items. I remember looking through that book and reading the names of the people in town who had ever bought a poiso, what it was they bought and for what purpose. It went way back to the 1930s IIRC. BTW if we didn't know you, you got nothing so if she went to Bence with plans to sign a fake name, that would not have worked.

[NancyDrew]

This is why we have the FDA and the EPA now...to protect people from buying fake products that can kill or maim them. Even so...there are tons of supplements being sold, some on tv, others in drugstores or health-food stores, with the standard disclaimer "this product not intended as medicine...not evaluated by the FDA, etc." And they can kill you...(especially the diet products that raise blood pressure and can cause strokes.)

I've always read that poisoning is largely a female crime. And you have a point, IR...Lizzie might have gone that route. I believe Bence as well. Druggists have good memories; they have to (I worked as a pharm tech all thru college.) He would not have, imo, forgotten such an unusual request.

And so I have to ask: IF we assume Lizzie decided that "yes, poison it is, this is how I'll get rid of them" then why did she give up after the failed prussic acid purchase? There we so many ways she could have murdered Andrew and Abby that weren't as violent and messy as axing their faces off...(shudder.) I've been studying this case for 30 years and the brutality of the crimes still gives me the shivers...

[InterestedReader]

Do we believe Bence? I do. Three witnesses said it was Lizzie Borden that day trying to buy Prussic Acid. Not just 1 but 3!!

Was it three? I'd a woolly impression of Bence and then another employee also front of shop and one out the back who couldn't see anything... But three of them actually witnessed the attempt to buy poison?

[Steveads2004]

Hello IR, I am getting the 3 people from Porter.I doBence and 2 associates id'd Lizzie.

[InterestedReader]

It was in the Inquest and the Preliminary hearing ...

What Bence initially says when asked by the police if he knows Lizzie, is “No, I do not know her, but think I would know her again should I see her."
Bence is taken to Second Street and between eight and nine o'clock in the evening he identifies her both by appearance and voice as the woman wanting prussic acid. This makes the papers and from then on it's out there, the idea Lizzie was trying to buy prussic acid.

The other two witnesses are messrs. Kilroy and Hart.
At the Inquest Kilroy and Hart are both asked if they are sure they know who Lizzie is, if they are sure they can make an identification.
Kilroy answers: 'Well, I think so.'
Hart answers: 'I am sir, just.'

At the preliminary hearing Bence says that the applicant for poison in his shop on Wednesday spoke in a 'low tremulous voice'.
Kilroy takes the stand straight after Bence and says the woman in the shop spoke in quite a loud voice without a tremor. Moreover, Adams, in questioning Bence, attempts to cast doubt on his deposition by querying if Bence had not told one George Gray he really couldn't be sure in his identification of Lizzie. He 'couldn't swear to it being her.'

I'm not sure if anyone sounds very sure.
There was a drive to catch out irresponsible dispensing of poisons - you see numerous reports in the 'press of 'State agents' making sham requests - and these entrapment ploys must have made the pharmacists defensive. We know that some of the applicants were women and I don't suppose they sent a man to enquire how he could bleach his upper lip.

[NancyDrew]

No one answered me so I think I'll pose the question again: If it was indeed Lizzie who tried to buy prussic acid from Bence (and I believe it was) and furthermore, if the reason she was going to purchase this poison was to use it to murder Abby and Andrew then why did she abandon the 'poisoning plan' and decide instead to kill them violently with a hatchet?

This doesn't make a lot of sense.

Killing one person in the house with poison might have worked. Especially if that person were old (and in 1892, Abby and Andrew were definitely considered quite elderly)...and if they had been ill previously. But killing 2 people with poison? Let's think about this poison plan:

1. How would she had gotten them to TAKE the poison? (Food or drink, obviously, right?)

2. What would she have done once the poison took affect? If one or both of them became violently ill, would she have called Dr. Bowen? Or any doctor? Bridget would have seen what was going on as well. Would it be out of place for Bridge to call someone?

3. Again, assuming she succeeded in getting the poison into both of their bodies, how would she know who would die first? What if Andrew succumbed (being older, and more frail, this is not unreasonable) first? Wouldn't that foil the supposed 'timing of deaths' which ensured the Borden estate went to Lizzie and Emma and not Abby and her relatives?

4. Is it possible Lizzie planned on giving a big, hefty dose of the stuff to Abby, to ensure she keeled over first, and not the other way around?

Okay, I'll stop, but I hope I've made my point. Poisoning the Bordens seems tricky. And so I am compelled, by my own curiosity, to ask:

DOES ANYONE THINK LIZZIE WAS GOING TO KILL HERSELF WITH THE PRUSSIC ACID?

[InterestedReader]

And so I have to ask: IF we assume Lizzie decided that "yes, poison it is, this is how I'll get rid of them" then why did she give up after the failed prussic acid purchase?

In a dedicated search the analysis of stomach contents found no presence of toxin. The autopsies likewise yielded no indication that poison had been administered. It seems presumptive to say she abandoned an attempt to poison them when there's no evidence of this attempt. To find Prussic acid in the system was within current medical competence.

However there is abundant proof of what people were doing with Prussic acid in the summer of 1892. A headline plague of gypsy moth in Massachusetts was laying waste to entire forests of timber trees, devastating acres of farm-crops, and costing the state a fortune. Further to these losses Massachusetts spent an estimated million dollars trying to check the damage. At Malden an emergency commission of scientists was set up to combat moth. Massachusetts hired an army of moth-slayers. Some were even stationed on incoming roads, tasked with combing over each vehicle to find moth-caterpillar-passengers. The papers are full of advice on what private citizens should do and one suggestion is you exterminate the moth with Prussic acid. To say of Lizzie that her attempt to buy it was strange and singular is not, in that particular climate, correct. Many people were buying 'Prussic blue' in the summer of '92, to kill moth.

It's just as feasible that she read one of these numerous pieces in the newspapers and wondered if it worked on all 'moth' including clothes-moth. Indeed, it's probably more feasible than Lizzie swanning into a pharmacy with the belief she could get the stuff to kill people. One of the problems of accepting the second scenario is that you decide the woman to be a complete idiot, and for the sake of consistency she should be a complete idiot wherever else her actions are observed.

Here are just two clippings. One from 1895 shows it took 3 years for the agricultural experts to become disillusioned as to the efficacy of Prussic acid on moth.
The other in March of 1892 anticipates the ladies' problem in the coming summer of moth in sealskin sacques.

[twinsrwe]

No one answered me so I think I'll pose the question again: If it was indeed Lizzie who tried to buy prussic acid from Bence (and I believe it was) and furthermore, if the reason she was going to purchase this poison was to use it to murder Abby and Andrew then why did she abandon the 'poisoning plan' and decide instead to kill them violently with a hatchet? …

Well, assuming Lizzie did attempt to buy prussic acid, and a prescription was needed in order to purchase it, then I would think she had no choice but to abandon the ‘plan’, not unless Dr. Bowen would have been willing to compromise his license and reputation by writing a prescription for her. How likely would that be?

I find it difficult to answer your questions about how Lizzie would have killed 2 people with poison, because I believe that if she did attempt to buy prussic acid, it was not because she intended to killed Abby and Andrew with it. Lizzie said that she had fleas; I have never believed that the word 'fleas' referred to a menstrual cycle. I believe she wanted the prussic acid to clean her sealskin cape.

Okay, I'll stop, but I hope I've made my point. Poisoning the Bordens seems tricky. And so I am compelled, by my own curiosity, to ask:

DOES ANYONE THINK LIZZIE WAS GOING TO KILL HERSELF WITH THE PRUSSIC ACID?

No, I don’t believe she was going to kill herself with the prussic acid or by any other means.

[twinsrwe]

Wendy, that is really interesting information you have posted! I have not read those articles before, so my belief that Lizzie wanted the prussic acid to clean her sealskin cape, is purely coincidental.

Thank you for sharing these articles with us.

[InterestedReader]

No, I don’t believe she was going to kill herself with the prussic acid or by any other means.

Don't you think Judy, that if Lizzie had wanted poison for suicide, she need only admit to it? I mean, in the aftermath of the killings when she has a year to consider her choice. Does she reveal she was miserable or does she lose her liberty in a conviction for murder..? Most of us would admit to being miserable when faced with that alternative but the problem is the Prussic acid story was not admitted as evidence and so this is all speculative.

Today the 'moth in sealskin' earns automatic ridicule, the current wisdom being that no-one had ever heard of Prussic acid being put to such a use. (Either to 'clean' or protect against infestation - it probably amounts to the same treatment.) I believe this to be an ahistorical assumption because we can find suggestions in print it might be put to such use. In short, even if most people in Fall River didn't own fancy togs in sealskin and had never heard of how to make them moth-proof, the American women who did read suggestions they try Prussic acid.

Here is more information on Massachusetts' 'Battle Against Gypsy Moth':

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/ ... nge&page=1

[NancyDrew]

Thanks to both of you! That's fantastic information contained there and very interesting. So prussic acid did have a perfectly reasonable use in 1892. If it was Lizzie who tried to buy it, and it was indeed to clean her sealskin cape that she might fear be infested, why didn't she just admit it?


One more question regarding poisons: I've read there was a book found at the house, opened up to a page about poisons. Is this true, or is it just urban legend?

[InterestedReader]

So prussic acid did have a perfectly reasonable use in 1892. If it was Lizzie who tried to buy it, and it was indeed to clean her sealskin cape that she might fear be infested, why didn't she just admit it?

It is being tried as an insecticide. Which seems mind-bogglingly dangerous.
Lizzie wouldn't even admit to knowing where Smith's pharmacy stood!

One more question regarding poisons: I've read there was a book found at the house, opened up to a page about poisons. Is this true, or is it just urban legend?

The truth about this is on the Forum somewhere, I've read it! Posted by either Kat or Harry... Try a Search because it's definitely there. It's just my memory but - The household book opened to poisons, this appeared in one of the early publications and it isn't true.

I've been very struck by the poison element when reading how the crime broke in the newspapers. The idea the Bordens were poisoned appears almost with the first reports. The Fall River public must have had the dual impression they were poisoned and battered to death.

[NancyDrew]

Yes, I found some posts on it, but I'm having trouble copying and pasting the link (it's probably me!). Pearson wrote about it and it was mentioned also by Radin.

I'll try again later...

[InterestedReader]

I wanted to say Pearson but didn't trust my memory.

[twinsrwe]

No, I don’t believe she was going to kill herself with the prussic acid or by any other means.

Don't you think Judy, that if Lizzie had wanted poison for suicide, she need only admit to it? I mean, in the aftermath of the killings when she has a year to consider her choice. Does she reveal she was miserable or does she lose her liberty in a conviction for murder..? Most of us would admit to being miserable when faced with that alternative but the problem is the Prussic acid story was not admitted as evidence and so this is all speculative. …

Hmmm, I see what you mean, but I still doubt she would have admitted to feeling suicidal, and wanted to by prussic acid in order to take her own life. I think Lizzie would have put the noose around her own neck if she had admitted to attempting to buy prussic acid to kill herself. Prior to the murders, Lizzie had mentioned to Mrs. Churchill and Alice Russell that the family may have been poisoned. Furthermore, Abby had gone to see Dr. Bowen Wednesday morning, because she had been ill. She told him that she was frightened, and that she was afraid she had been poisoned. So, the chances of anyone believing Lizzie, had she admitted to wanting the prussic acid to kill herself, would have been nil.

Thank you for the link on Massachusetts' 'Battle Against Gypsy Moth'; very interesting.

[twinsrwe]

Thanks to both of you! That's fantastic information contained there and very interesting. So prussic acid did have a perfectly reasonable use in 1892. If it was Lizzie who tried to buy it, and it was indeed to clean her sealskin cape that she might fear be infested, why didn't she just admit it? …

You're welcome, Robin, but I think Wendy deserves a lot more credit than I do. Her information put a whole new light on the prussic acid information we have had up until now.

As to why Lizzie didn’t just admit to attempting to buy prussic acid was, perhaps, it is because Jennings advised her against admitting to such a thing.

[InterestedReader]

Hmmm, I see what you mean, but I still doubt she would have admitted to feeling suicidal, and wanted to by prussic acid in order to take her own life. I think Lizzie would have put the noose around her own neck if she had admitted to attempting to buy prussic acid to kill herself. Prior to the murders, Lizzie had mentioned to Mrs. Churchill and Alice Russell that the family may have been poisoned. Furthermore, Abby had gone to see Dr. Bowen Wednesday morning, because she had been ill. She told him that she was frightened, and that she was afraid she had been poisoned. So, the chances of anyone believing Lizzie, had she admitted to wanting the prussic acid to kill herself, would have been nil.

Yes, you are probably right.
You see, I rather think she didn't attempt to poison them. She would need to obtain a toxin undetectable under the analysis of stomach contents, undetectable in autopsy...
But the whole thing confuses me!

[twinsrwe]

… One more question regarding poisons: I've read there was a book found at the house, opened up to a page about poisons. Is this true, or is it just urban legend?

I found that Lincoln also had mentioned this in her book. Kat submitted a couple of posts in the thread titled, Did Lizzie have forensic knowledge?:

Pearson::

Masterpieces of Murder, "The End of the Borden Case: The Final Word", Gerald Gross editor, Bonanza Books, New York, Chapters dated 1924, 1925, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1936. Gross edition copyright 1963.
This item appeared in an early Pearson work: see dates 1924-1936. The following is Pearson's re-recounting of an earlier offering, page 165:

"One of these attorneys, on entering the Borden house for the first time, found a book of recipes and prescriptions. He took it up, and it fell open in his hand - at a passage devoted to the subject of prussic acid."

Lincoln, page 62:

"When Hosea Knowlton, the District Attorney, first entered that house, his eye fell on a book lying on one of the small draped tables in the sitting room. A reader, as the Bordens were not, he picked it up idly. It was a book of household hints; its spine was broken and it fell open at a section on poisons, in fact at an article on prussic acid."

Source: http://tinyurl.com/yaav9dsq


Kat also posted the following information in the thread titled, A question about Andrew and the papaer:

FIVE MURDERS, taken from Forum Magazine, March 1928, pp 370-380.

"THE END OF THE BORDEN CASE"

Edmund Pearson

..."The attorneys for the Commonwealth did not share the opinion already quoted that Miss Emma was without any knowledge of the murder. They held that she was in no doubt whatever about the identity of the assassin. They hoped that the horror of the killings would affect her - as the weaker-willed of the two sisters - and cause her to make admissions which would tend to clear up the mystery. This never happened. One of these attorneys on entering the Borden house for the first time found a book of recipes and prescriptions. He took it up, and it fell open in his hand - at a passage devoted to the subject of prussic acid. It is also said that there was evidence of an earlier attempt to procure this poison, earlier than the one made in Fall River the day before the murders. This one took place in New Bedford, and here again, the clerk in the pharmacy identified Miss Lizzie as the applicant."


Kat posted this in the same thread:

Yes, Radin did write about it, but he was discussing Pearson in that section:

Pearson also added some touches to the poison legend. He has written, and apparently seriously, that when an official entered the Borden home he happened to pick up a book that contained recipes, or perhaps household hints, and the book immediately opened to a page discussing prussic acid. If anybody in the Borden house, or elsewhere, ever thought of committing murder with prussic acid and took the trouble to read about it first, he or she would change his mind fast. It is always described as one of the quickest-acting poisons known, one which can kill in twenty seconds to a minute.

--Radin, Edward. Lizzie Borden: The Untold Story. NY: Simon & Schuster, 1961.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/yc267vx5

[twinsrwe]

Hmmm, I see what you mean, but I still doubt she would have admitted to feeling suicidal, and wanted to by prussic acid in order to take her own life. I think Lizzie would have put the noose around her own neck if she had admitted to attempting to buy prussic acid to kill herself. Prior to the murders, Lizzie had mentioned to Mrs. Churchill and Alice Russell that the family may have been poisoned. Furthermore, Abby had gone to see Dr. Bowen Wednesday morning, because she had been ill. She told him that she was frightened, and that she was afraid she had been poisoned. So, the chances of anyone believing Lizzie, had she admitted to wanting the prussic acid to kill herself, would have been nil.

Yes, you are probably right.
You see, I rather think she didn't attempt to poison them. She would need to obtain a toxin undetectable under the analysis of stomach contents, undetectable in autopsy...
But the whole thing confuses me!

Oh, I agree, I don't think she tried to poison them either.

[InterestedReader]

Thanks Twins for finding everything on that story. I tend to assess it as a story, the kind irresistible to crime-writers and journalists. Imagine, if you've found top-notch advice on how to kill people with Prussic acid, you just leave the book open on the right page... Radin makes the best point about this particular poison, its speed. You'd need to be very confident or very stupid to decide your first murders will be done with Prussic acid and everything will go off without a hitch . Most of us would probably kill ourselves removing the stopper from the bottle. Well, I would, probably.

[twinsrwe]

Something that I found interesting, is that in Lincoln's book she stated on page 63:

Prussic Acid works instantaneously and smells like almonds.

How does Victoria know this???

[InterestedReader]

It's in all the Agatha Christie books..! Cyanide smells of bitter almonds. Hydrogen Cyanide is Prussic acid. It was once derived from the seeds of the Prunus family, and that includes almonds. If someone is poisoned by cyanide there is a telltale pink flush across the face.

[twinsrwe]

Thanks Wendy, that is something I didn't know! I have never gotten into reading the Agatha Christie books; I don't know why, except that I have always been a true crime buff.

[twinsrwe]

Thanks Twins for finding everything on that story. I tend to assess it as a story, the kind irresistible to crime-writers and journalists. Imagine, if you've found top-notch advice on how to kill people with Prussic acid, you just leave the book open on the right page... Radin makes the best point about this particular poison, its speed. You'd need to be very confident or very stupid to decide your first murders will be done with Prussic acid and everything will go off without a hitch . Most of us would probably kill ourselves removing the stopper from the bottle. Well, I would, probably.

OOPS, sorry I missed this post.

You're welcome, Interested. I agree, Radin did make a good point with how fast the poison would be. However, I think Pearson made an eye-opening statement when he wrote:

"It is also said that there was evidence of an earlier attempt to procure this poison, earlier than the one made in Fall River the day before the murders. This one took place in New Bedford, and here again, the clerk in the pharmacy identified Miss Lizzie as the applicant."

[InterestedReader]

However, I think Pearson made an eye-opening statement when he wrote:

"It is also said that there was evidence of an earlier attempt to procure this poison, earlier than the one made in Fall River the day before the murders. This one took place in New Bedford, and here again, the clerk in the pharmacy identified Miss Lizzie as the applicant."

Judy, I don't know how many times I've bumped into this claim, but try finding the evidence for it, or the original source.. I did try, without success. There's another version which had Stephen Brow making the same claim. I looked him up in the Census and he was a druggist, but in Fall River. Oddly, Brow happened to be lounging around at 'Mrs Churchill's gate' the day of the murder.

If you can find where the New Bedford story starts, that would be cool.

Don't you think a lot of people wanted to be telling exciting stories about Lizzie Borden... In London in the 1980s there was a cannibal serial killer who made victims into meat-pies and everyone knew someone who ate one of his pies

[KGDevil]

And so I have to ask: IF we assume Lizzie decided that "yes, poison it is, this is how I'll get rid of them" then why did she give up after the failed prussic acid purchase?

In a dedicated search the analysis of stomach contents found no presence of toxin. The autopsies likewise yielded no indication that poison had been administered. It seems presumptive to say she abandoned an attempt to poison them when there's no evidence of this attempt. To find Prussic acid in the system was within current medical competence.

However there is abundant proof of what people were doing with Prussic acid in the summer of 1892. A headline plague of gypsy moth in Massachusetts was laying waste to entire forests of timber trees, devastating acres of farm-crops, and costing the state a fortune. Further to these losses Massachusetts spent an estimated million dollars trying to check the damage. At Malden an emergency commission of scientists was set up to combat moth. Massachusetts hired an army of moth-slayers. Some were even stationed on incoming roads, tasked with combing over each vehicle to find moth-caterpillar-passengers. The papers are full of advice on what private citizens should do and one suggestion is you exterminate the moth with Prussic acid. To say of Lizzie that her attempt to buy it was strange and singular is not, in that particular climate, correct. Many people were buying 'Prussic blue' in the summer of '92, to kill moth.

It's just as feasible that she read one of these numerous pieces in the newspapers and wondered if it worked on all 'moth' including clothes-moth. Indeed, it's probably more feasible than Lizzie swanning into a pharmacy with the belief she could get the stuff to kill people. One of the problems of accepting the second scenario is that you decide the woman to be a complete idiot, and for the sake of consistency she should be a complete idiot wherever else her actions are observed.

Here are just two clippings. One from 1895 shows it took 3 years for the agricultural experts to become disillusioned as to the efficacy of Prussic acid on moth.
The other in March of 1892 anticipates the ladies' problem in the coming summer of moth in sealskin sacques.

The first article about moths says women are cleaning their sacks, but not with what.

The second article states that the moths thrived on prussic acid and arsenic. So it's saying prussic acid is ineffective, because it does not kill them. It has the opposite effect. I think it would be easier for the state to procure it than the average person.

Do we have any articles stating that people in their homes were using the prussic acid, or that anyone was advising people to use it? I've looked for any and so far haven't found any. Since the average person couldn't get it without a prescription, and I doubt a doctor is going to give any lady a prescription to clean her furs, I wonder how popular it really could have been.

And if it was a well known use that was in the papers, why did the defense try so hard to show that it wasn't?

[InterestedReader]

I should have been clearer.

Eli Bence said he "thought" Lizzie Borden asked for Prussic acid for the hem of a sealskin.
We don't know if it was for moth or for fleas or a job with the Moth Squad during Moth Mayhem in Massachusetts because in a scenario which Lizzie denied ever happened the postulate Lizzie didn't say. In the world of verifiable words she said this:

Q. Have you sealskin sacks?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where are they?
A. Hanging in a large white bag in the attic, each one seperate.

Q. Put away for the summer?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you ever use prussic acid on your sacks?
A. Acid? No, sir; I don't use anything on them.

Inquest p. 91

I was expecting this to be a modern assumption, that no-one in 1892 would be worried about clothes-moth in sealskin. But it goes back to 1893 and the opinion of Judge Charles G. Davis: 'It is a matter of common knowledge that sealskins furnish no nidus for moths.'

In a series of letters originally published by the Boston Daily Advertiser in December 1893, later much-quoted and popularized by Pearson, Judge Davis criticized the verdict, discussed the law, and had much to say about admissibility of evidence as it relates to the exclusion of the Prussic acid - for which expertise many would have been grateful. But I don't know why Pearson flourishes him as an authority on pelts and pests. Davis may have been a member of the Massachusetts Bench and Bar, but if 'common knowledge' is found anywhere it is in newspapers, and he seems to run counter to popular opinion on the clothes-moth.

That March 1892 clipping is significant because it tells us women did consider it a problem, keeping moth out of sealskin. Women did want to know how to kill clothes-moth and other pests living in sealskin, and they were trying to treat sealskin at home - the advice is there in the newspapers. Professional cleaning by furriers is expensive so people have always looked for ways to treat furs at home. With reference to this case though, the idea of Lizzie so much as wanting to is ridiculed as bizarre.

The Gypsy moth epidemic in Massachusetts was one of the headline stories of 1892. Agri-scientists threw everything at that moth including Prussic acid - none of it worked. But say someone like Lizzie followed these many newspaper reports and wondered if Prussic acid would work on all moth. That was a hypothetical - I'm sorry, I didn't intend to say everyone was monkeying about with Prussic acid at home. But I find it more believable she'd be attempting to buy it as an insecticide, than to kill people. There were fewer qualms about poisons in the home. Arsenic was used against clothes-moth - garments were 'saturated' with arsenic for winter storage.

As you know from the newspapers Americans were killing themselves every week with 'Prussian blue' or 'Paris green' - cyanide and arsenic. How did they get hold of the Prussic acid and arsenic? The newspapers never ask so presumably it wasn't thought very remarkable people did obtain them. If plain-clothes' 'stewards' were dispatched to try and buy lethal substances from druggists then presumably the authorities suspected druggists of being lax.

People drank carbolic acid. It's a method of suicide we frequently see reported in that era. Where did they get the carbolic acid? Was it just a substance commonly found about the home? In 1901 Mrs James Sullivan of Butte Montana swallowed carbolic acid in front of her six year-old daughter Frances. Neither the newspapers nor the coroner asked where she got it from:

Crazed With Dread of Her Husband's Return from Jail Mrs. Sullivan Swallowed Acid.

'...The suicide of Mrs. James Sullivan was the direct outcome of the brutal, inhumane treatment by her husband, who is incarcerated in the county jail. Sullivan and his wife, at the time of her death, had been married twelve years, and most of the time, it was said, misused her shamefully. A short while ago he tried to have her consigned to an asylum to get her out of the way, but the plan fell short, and Mrs. Sullivan later had him bound over to keep the peace. The fear that he would be released on bond and keep his threat to kill her is undoubtedly the cause of her taking her life as she did. Mrs. Sullivan leaves one child.
From the Coroner's Inquest:
...a sister of Mrs. Sullivan said that Mrs. Sullivan appeared to live in constant fear of her husband, whose drunken, dissolute ways made him an object of terror for her. Several times Mrs. Sullivan expressed fear of her husband and said she would sooner die than live.

Miss Sullivan, niece of the dead woman, said she had lived with the Sullivan family [...] At the time Mrs. Sullivan took the carbolic acid she was in an adjoining room. The little six-year-old of the Sullivans came running in and exclaimed that her mother had something in her mouth that was burning her. Miss Sullivan ran to the room where Mrs. Sullivan lay, and found her aunt had swallowed poison. As she lay on the bed dying, she exclaimed, "This is all Jim Sullivan's fault!"

Mrs. Murphy, a neighbor, said Mrs. Sullivan had called at the house Sunday morning and had breakfast with her. Mrs. Sullivan expressed a dread of her husband, and said she "had a notion to go hang herself." Mrs. Murphy believed at the time that these remarks were merely extravagant language of unhappiness and gave them little credence.

James Sullivan took the stand. He was a pitiable sight, covered with the grime of the prison where he was taken last night. He said he had always treated his wife kindly. Coroner Johnson: "Didn't you drink constantly?" Sullivan: "Yes, but I didn't suppose that would make a woman kill herself."

Sullivan was at the inquest in charge of a deputy from the sheriff's office. He was allowed to attend his wife's funeral and the officer accompanied him. Sullivan stooped over the cold form of his wife as she lay in her coffin and pressed a kiss upon her unresponsive lips. He did this after the other relatives had kissed her goodbye. Sullivan then turned to where his little girl stood with streaming eyes beside the coffin and attempted to bestow a similar mark of affection upon the child. But the little one turned away and refused disdainfully and with loathing the proffered caress. The proclaimed destroyer of his wife and the alleged author of the ruin with which he was surrounded, pitied by his fellow man and rebuked by his child, staggered after the deputy sheriff in the train of mourners who followed the body to the grave.'
The Butte Inter Mountain 9th and 10th September 1901

She's called 'Mrs Sullivan' in the newspapers, 'J. Sullivan' on her death certificate, and 'Mrs James Sullivan' on her grave. Her name was Annie Powers. She and James Sullivan were both born in County Cork; James was killed in the mines 8 years later.

Fruit-skins were found in the stomachs of both Bordens - they had both that morning eaten a fruit such as a pear or apple. In Andrew Borden this fruit-skin was seen to be red. If I were Lizzie bent on poisoning them I'd pierce an apple or pear with a sewing-needle to insert the toxin. A sewing-needle is an intrinsically innocent possession - a needle in a haystack of household items. A fruit is a single unit of food. You control the administering and the consumption of the poison. Death by fruit is also very literary; it comes with a cultural pedigree that may have held attractions for a person like Lizzie. The sewing-needle will make a puncture so small as to pass unnoticed by the person gourmandising into the apple or pear. Suppose the people you want to kill are the type who eat the core? That may give you the idea there'll be no remainder of evidence external to the body.

Prussic acid is a volatile acid - in 1892 it could be detected in autopsy but with great difficulty. In that era it would be a doctor called early enough to suspect hydrogen cyanide poisoning from physical presentations, chiefly a kind of rosacea, a bright pink telltale rash on the face which is the result of hypoxia. Well, how to disguise that? Andrew Borden's face was hacked to bits but then Abby Borden's wasn't... And my elegant plan gets lost in butchery. But it's fascinating how many people at the time instinctually felt this couple had been felled somehow, as if by a drug, prior to the assault with a weapon.

[KGDevil]

Arsenic was readily available in just about any form you wanted at that time. It could be bought over the counter as "Rough On Rats." It was also prone to be more slow acting, and not as reliable as prussic acid. A person would have to fiddle with the dosage to get it right, and arsenic poisoning was usually a long drawn out affair. To put not so fine a point on it, arsenic was sort of a poke and hope poison. But, arsenic was a very readily available substance.

It was prussic acid that was more strictly regulated because even then it was understood how volatile it was. It was also understood at that time that it could not be traced in an autopsy. However, prussic acid did have it's professional uses as well. It was an ingredient in some of the paints, it was used in metal working, and in photography. Then of course in medicines. But it was not so readily available to the average person. I would think that anyone who wanted prussic acid for the purpose of killing themselves wouldn't be above stealing it somehow. Prussic acid suicides were actually dwindling around the time of the murders. I read an article that said suicide by 1897 prussic acid suicides were actually becoming less common.

St. Joseph Herald - St. Joseph Missouri - April 30, 1893

[KGDevil]

Boston Weekly Globe January 27, 1891

[KGDevil]

Rolla Herald August 25, 1892

[KGDevil]

Democrat and Chronicle Rochester, New York September 24, 1897

[KGDevil]

People drank carbolic acid. It's a method of suicide we frequently see reported in that era. Where did they get the carbolic acid? Was it just a substance commonly found about the home? In 1901 Mrs James Sullivan of Butte Montana swallowed carbolic acid in front of her six year-old daughter Frances. Neither the newspapers nor the coroner asked where she got it from:

Crazed With Dread of Her Husband's Return from Jail Mrs. Sullivan Swallowed Acid.

'...The suicide of Mrs. James Sullivan was the direct outcome of the brutal, inhumane treatment by her husband, who is incarcerated in the county jail. Sullivan and his wife, at the time of her death, had been married twelve years, and most of the time, it was said, misused her shamefully. A short while ago he tried to have her consigned to an asylum to get her out of the way, but the plan fell short, and Mrs. Sullivan later had him bound over to keep the peace. The fear that he would be released on bond and keep his threat to kill her is undoubtedly the cause of her taking her life as she did. Mrs. Sullivan leaves one child.
From the Coroner's Inquest:
...a sister of Mrs. Sullivan said that Mrs. Sullivan appeared to live in constant fear of her husband, whose drunken, dissolute ways made him an object of terror for her. Several times Mrs. Sullivan expressed fear of her husband and said she would sooner die than live.

Miss Sullivan, niece of the dead woman, said she had lived with the Sullivan family [...] At the time Mrs. Sullivan took the carbolic acid she was in an adjoining room. The little six-year-old of the Sullivans came running in and exclaimed that her mother had something in her mouth that was burning her. Miss Sullivan ran to the room where Mrs. Sullivan lay, and found her aunt had swallowed poison. As she lay on the bed dying, she exclaimed, "This is all Jim Sullivan's fault!"

Mrs. Murphy, a neighbor, said Mrs. Sullivan had called at the house Sunday morning and had breakfast with her. Mrs. Sullivan expressed a dread of her husband, and said she "had a notion to go hang herself." Mrs. Murphy believed at the time that these remarks were merely extravagant language of unhappiness and gave them little credence.

James Sullivan took the stand. He was a pitiable sight, covered with the grime of the prison where he was taken last night. He said he had always treated his wife kindly. Coroner Johnson: "Didn't you drink constantly?" Sullivan: "Yes, but I didn't suppose that would make a woman kill herself."

Sullivan was at the inquest in charge of a deputy from the sheriff's office. He was allowed to attend his wife's funeral and the officer accompanied him. Sullivan stooped over the cold form of his wife as she lay in her coffin and pressed a kiss upon her unresponsive lips. He did this after the other relatives had kissed her goodbye. Sullivan then turned to where his little girl stood with streaming eyes beside the coffin and attempted to bestow a similar mark of affection upon the child. But the little one turned away and refused disdainfully and with loathing the proffered caress. The proclaimed destroyer of his wife and the alleged author of the ruin with which he was surrounded, pitied by his fellow man and rebuked by his child, staggered after the deputy sheriff in the train of mourners who followed the body to the grave.'
The Butte Inter Mountain 9th and 10th September 1901

She's called 'Mrs Sullivan' in the newspapers, 'J. Sullivan' on her death certificate, and 'Mrs James Sullivan' on her grave. Her name was Annie Powers. She and James Sullivan were both born in County Cork; James was killed in the mines 8 years later.

.

Suicide by carbolic acid was fairly common in that era. Carbolic acid was used as a disinfectant for all sorts of things. I've even seen suggestions to use it for foot rot in sheep on a farm or ranch. I've seen newspaper articles explaining how to disinfect your home with carbolic acid if you have had someone in your home who had Cholera or some similar disease. A September 18, 1892 article that I read had a full page article which included the importance of this disinfectant, how to use it, and where. How to set up a sick room. It was issued by a County Board of Health.

[InterestedReader]

As to there being another attempt to buy Prussic acid, this one at New Bedford, I'm finding it's twice referred to in The Knowlton Papers.

In May 1892 Knowlton receives a List of proposed witnesses - it is also called a 'Survey'. Under the heading 'Buying prussic acid ' five names appear - they are Bence, Kilroy, Hart, 'Wright - N.B.' and 'Church - " "'.

Now please read an undated, unsigned letter sent to Knowlton - HK341 - here quoted with its original spelling intact:

'Now in regard to the Prussic acid Miss Lizzie tried to buy. there are three men who see and heard her ask for 10cts worth of Prussic Acid at D.R. Smiths Apothecary Store only a few days before the murder. Two of these men are clerks at that store. The other a medical student who had called there to see Mr Bence (the head cleark.) Each one of these gentlemen tell us on the stand that they know it was Lizzie who they saw ask for the poison. Then we have Mr Wright a New Bedford Apothecary tell us he thinks Lizzie came into his store and asked for Prussic Acid on a date that Lizzie and her sister Emma were in that city, Emma says she left Lizzie in New Bedford while she went over to Fairhaven. So it seems she tried to get the drug there as well as in Fall River. But did not succeed in getting it in either place.'

You'd think an unsolicited letter to Knowlton would be very iffy. But in this instance, the 'word on the street' is correct. Edward Wright's name does appear on the list of proposed witnesses. And afterwards the Prussic Acid is all abandoned, and Wright is never called to give evidence before the jury.

Here is Edward E. Wright, 'Druggist', in the 1900 Census. At the time of Lizzie's alleged attempt to buy poison in his New Bedford shop, he would be 30 years of age and a married man:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M95T-QTR

KG will surely be able to find Edward in the City Directories.
Then we can establish the precise druggist in New Bedford Lizzie is supposed to have entered.

...I can't remember offhand the dates she was there! I'll need to look it up.

[InterestedReader]

I'm finding a little about Edward Wright. From 1891 to 1893 he certainly owned his own druggist's shop - the Wright Drug Company. Hoffman said Wright actually did testify before the Grand Jury, but that seems wrong.
Contemporary newspapers say he was only in the audience at the Preliminary.
Newspapers of August 25th say Wright had identified Lizzie as the woman.

Reading around in the Knowlton I'm pretty sure it's Wright who constitutes what Knowlton calls 'the prior attempt' to buy Prussic acid.
How was a New Bedford druggist able to recognise Lizzie Borden?
If she was told in New Bedford she needed a prescription, why try again in Fall River?

It would be very interesting to see where the Wright Drug Company stands on the map - if it was a street within Lizzie's ambit.

[KGDevil]

Edward Wright in Fall River City Directory of 1892:

[InterestedReader]

...In New Bedford, yes?

So Lizzie is with the Pooles at 20 Madison, so Purchase is just one block along. But today's 49 Purchase is way down at the end of the street.
According to Rebello she went shopping 'downtown' Saturday July the 23rd.

Emma and Lizzie arrived in New Bedford Thursday July the 21st - Lizzie stayed with the Pooles but Emma 'continued to Fairhaven.' I suppose that means Emma wasn't with Lizzie on the Saturday shop..?

If today's numbering is any indication, it's a long walk down Purchase:
(Please click to see it properly)

image.jpg

Incidentally, on that List of Witnesses (HK182), on the reverse side, is hand-written:
'Miss Carrie Poole, mad ' .
And no full stop after 'mad' as per an abbreviation. But must be short for 'Madison'!

[InterestedReader]

The other New Bedford druggist making the claim Lizzie tried to buy Prussic acid off him, was one Church. I've found Harry M. Church, 'Druggist,' in New Bedford on the 1900 Census. KG, can we see where his chemist-shop operated? -

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M95R-82W

Oops, and another 'Druggist', Charles H. Church:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M95T-4BJ

[KGDevil]

Charles H. Church 1892 in New Bedford.

[KGDevil]

I cannot find a listing for Harry M. Church in New Bedford in 1892. I found one for 1891.

[InterestedReader]

Thanks KG. Is that the one Church there? or do we have two druggists?
Again, Pleasant is a street very near Lizzie in Madison Do you suppose the numbering has changed much?
I can't think what 'cor' means.

I read that Hoffman believes Charles H. Church is the second New Bedford druggist.
In that case the address would be '122 Purchase and 1 Pleasant.'
His house is listed separately, so does this mean he has two druggist shops or...what..? One on a corner?

[InterestedReader]

...Harry M. seems to belong to the same establishment as Charles H. At 1 Pleasant. Harry looks like Charles' son. While 'Wright and Hammond' is a James I. Church.

...'cor. Pleasant' isn't 'corner' is it?

[KGDevil]

...Harry M. seems to belong to the same establishment as Charles H. At 1 Pleasant. Harry looks like Charles' son. While 'Wright and Hammond' is a James I. Church.

...'cor. Pleasant' isn't 'corner' is it?

Cor. means corner. Also, when you see the word "do" it means ditto. It's usually used to establish that a person's work address and living address are the same. Like for example, "barber, 394 Pleasant h do." It would mean they are a barber at 394 Pleasant and their house is ditto or the same.

[InterestedReader]

I've been finding these druggists' addresses on a 1911 map of New Bedford.
The results are astonishing.

If we have the right Church, then two of the druggists ready to testify against her were doing business in the immediate vicinity of 20 Madison Street. If Lizzie did try to buy poison in New Bedford she was entering premises very nearby to where she boarded with the Pooles. She didn't have far to go.

On this 1911 map the street-numbering is completely different from today's. I am hoping it gives us a better idea of the 1892 numbering. Below are the relevant pieces of the 1911 street-map then the locations as translated and placed onto the modern map.
(Images open larger. Purchase St and Pleasant St carry different names in 1911 - they are Fourth and Fifth Street.)

Charles H. Church the druggist was at 122 Purchase Street.
All Lizzie need do was walk one block west along Madison, turn left, then south a block.
Of the Church druggists, he's the close one, and he's the Church named by Hoffman as ready to swear Lizzie Borden attempted to procure poison in his shop.
He seems to have had a couple of sons working for him - were they all lounging around as witnesses?

The Wright Drug Company - Edward E. Wright - at 49 Purchase, would be the block between School and Spring Streets. Again, it is very close to Lizzie at 20 Madison Street. She'd go north up Acushnet Avenue two blocks, walk west a block, turn right into Purchase.
Google makes these walks of 1 and 2 minutes.

If she was refused at Church's perhaps she walked north on Purchase determined that July day to buy poison from another chemist, until she reached the Wright Drug Company. Refused there, she might walk further north by one block to 1 Pleasant Street. It doesn't sound a sane enterprise. She learned nothing by the refusals.

Here's the thing. Either LIzzie went to these druggists because they were close at hand, or the druggists lied knowing Lizzie lodged close at hand. But why should they know where she was staying. How would they know.
I wasn't very persuaded Lizzie tried to buy poison but seeing the locations of these New Bedford druggists is changing my mind.


Lizzie:

image.jpg

Charles H. Church:

image.jpg

Edward Wright:

image.jpg

Distances:

image.jpg

[InterestedReader]

...I did not realize before seeing it on a map - New Bedford and Fairhaven are so close. Either side a strip of water. The Borden sisters were almost in waving distance.

[KGDevil]

Those maps are pretty persuasive. I had not realized that those druggist were that close to the Poole's residence. Nice job working them up on the map IR.

[InterestedReader]

Really, thus far, I thought Lizzie probably didn't go in Smith's and Bence was mistaken due to the feverish climate, a witch-hunt mentality - and essentially, she wouldn't do it because it was stupid -
But seeing where these New Bedford druggists stood in relation to Lizzie's lodging-house, now makes me think she was trying to buy poison.

Somewhere the fabric-store is named - In the Trial I think... I must find it. It would be interesting to know where that is on the map.

[InterestedReader]

KG? I wonder if we can work this out... Below: we have Knowlton and Lizzie at the Inquest.
The New Bedford shop where she buys dress-fabric she thinks is on the same street as 'Hutchinson's book store'. Can you find Hutchinson's in the City Directory? I just want to see where that street would fit into her tramp up and down Purchase to buy poison.

image.jpg

image.jpg

I can't help but feel most of us would be super-nervous during this questioning. She visited at least two druggists during her 5 day stay at New Bedford. She made crude attempts to buy poison. She'd know that Knowlton knew. And that may be why he shifts with savage speed from dress-fabric in New Bedford to poison in Fall River.

Do you remember ever reading the name of the dress-fabric shop? I've read about police-officers going to New Bedford to chase it up, and dimly recall they couldn't obtain any useful evidence... Didn't they have a theory she made duplicate dresses? At the Preliminary I think it was, Knowlton ordered Jennings to produce fabric and pattern. At the trial Robinson satirized the Government's desperation as it failed with Lizzie's wardrobe overall so went chasing 'even an unmade dress pattern and wanted to see if that had not been made up into some sort of mantle to wrap her up in...' Only at the last moment were the goods given up and removed by who else, Officer Harrington - two lengths of fabric, unused. The Government was trounced and had to abandon the issue. But was it ever of significance? Knowlton evidently thought so.

'... The only other point that has been given to the public today is the much talked of "dress pattern" due the day after the Borden murders. City Marshal Hilliard put two New Bedford officers at work in that city with orders to trace Lizzie Borden's actions during the two weeks previous. They found that she had purchased a dress pattern of cheap material in a big dry goods house in that city and it was to that reference was made at the trial. Some importance was attached to the matter at the time of the discovery of the purchase. The police failed to find the dress pattern or any traces of it in their search of the Borden house. They made a demand on the members of the family to produce the piece of goods or the made up dress. If they could not do this the police wanted to know what had become of it. The family refused to move in the matter and the police at New Bedford searched the store to get a sample of the goods bought by Lizzie. The last day of the trial the defence surrendered the piece of dress goods which Lizzie had purchased and it was still intact. The question has arisen in the minds of some people, who believe as the prosecution does, whether or not it was possible for the friends of the prisoner to have duplicated the dress pattern and surrendered the last purchase instead of the first and that the first one might have been made up and worn by Lizzie at the time of the murder and afterwards destroyed or put out of the way. ...'
Boston Globe September 4th 1892

Hm. I'm reading a post by the knowledgeable Fairhaven Guy. He says Hutchinson's bookstore was in Union Street - he could remember it. The druggist at 1 Pleasant Street is at the Union St junction. Lizzie said she bought the cheap material 'in a big dry goods house'. There's a likely-sounding one called 'The New Bedford Dry Goods Company' - a stonesthrow away on the corner of Union and Purchase. Lizzie Borden could be on a determined shopping-trip for murder with the Purchase St druggists for the poison and just as near a shop for her sewing-project.

[KGDevil]

Hutchinson H.S. & Co. 194 Union.