Lizzie Borden Society Forum

irishlass78 wrote: .so Johanna and John M. were brother and sister. Alsso, there may have been another sister, Ellen Sullivan, who settled in Fall River and married Timothy Shea. Scroll down for the Shea obit dated 1928: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ussnei/Obit11

KGDevil wrote:1880 Census for Fall River, Massachusetts.

Parents Daniel Sullivan and Julia Sullivan born in Ireland. Many children listed. Among them Michael, John, Johanna, and Ellen. Many of the children are born in Massachusetts.

Daniel Sullivan Self M 55 Ireland

Julia Sullivan Wife F 47 Ireland

Hannah Sullivan Daughter F 26 Ireland

Ellen Sullivan Daughter F 24 Ireland

Patrick Sullivan Son M 22 Massachusetts

Nellie Sullivan Daughter F 19 Massachusetts

Julia Sullivan Daughter F 17 Massachusetts

John Sullivan Son M 15 Massachusetts

Johanna Sullivan Daughter F 12 Massachusetts

Michael Sullivan Son M 9 Massachusetts

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MH6Q-9NP

InterestedReader wrote:KD, where do we find the online City Directories for American cities, please? I never know.


(...There had been a Bridget Sullivan at 112 East Woolman but she was née Holland... attached is the husband's death certificate.)

KGDevil wrote: Apparently Bridget did not reside with Mrs. Mary Sullivan until her death.

irishlass78 wrote:Ok...found this on a genealogy board in response to Naomi Farthing's post. This is the link: http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... .1/mb.ashx

Bridget Sullivan/FallRiver,MA/Butte,MT
Replies: 3
Re: Bridget Sullivan/FallRiver,MA/Butte,MT
Chris (View posts)
Posted: 8 Sep 2001 6:03AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Sullivan
After watching a special on Lizzie Borden on tv, I was prompted to look into this more. I vaguely remember my paternal grandmother, Mildred (now deceased) mentioning that her mother was the maid for Lizzie Borden. I know my great grandmother's name was Bridget and I believe her husband name was John. I do remember my grandmother saying that her father was blind. I seem to remember that both of their surnames were Sullivan. My grandmother had 4 siblings - one of whose name was John. She had 2 brothers - neither of which I believe married. I know the family lived in Massachussetts, but never heard of the move to Montana as all information from Borden case seems to imply. I do remember her telling me that my great grandparents immigrated from Cork County. Would be interested in hearing more.

KGDevil wrote:I'm still searching for any evidence that these people in the documents are the same Bridget and John. None of the evidence I have found so far matches up with the "Bridget of Montana" story. I am leaning towards it is not true. It's family legend. There is more than one Bridget Sullivan in these directories, and in the census records, with little identifying information. It's easy to pick one and make it fit if you ignore everything that doesn't.

Bridget did not appear by name in any city directory at 701 Alder until 1928. She is widowed by 1939, which matches the death certificate for the John Sullivan with the wrong parents. She is no longer living at 701 Alder by 1941. In fact no one is living there. Where did she go? The Bridget at 112 East Woolman doesn't show up until 1942. The will drawn up that is attributed to our Bridget is by a woman still living in Anaconda City instead of Butte, which is ignored, who was obviously not senile enough to have forgotten her husbands parents on his death certificate. There is no Bridget living at 112 Woolman in 1945. Again where did she go? In 1948 a Bridget Sullivan is a resident of the county hospital, not living with relatives. The fact that the informant for the 1948 death certificate was the county hospital would seem to indicate she died alone. No relatives to give information. The husbands name is not listed. We don't even know if this woman was married to John M. at all. There is no proof.

My conclusion after finding so much erroneous information is the whole Anaconda Bridget is a figment of lore.

InterestedReader wrote:

KGDevil wrote:I'm still searching for any evidence that these people in the documents are the same Bridget and John. None of the evidence I have found so far matches up with the "Bridget of Montana" story. I am leaning towards it is not true. It's family legend. There is more than one Bridget Sullivan in these directories, and in the census records, with little identifying information. It's easy to pick one and make it fit if you ignore everything that doesn't.

Bridget did not appear by name in any city directory at 701 Alder until 1928. She is widowed by 1939, which matches the death certificate for the John Sullivan with the wrong parents. She is no longer living at 701 Alder by 1941. In fact no one is living there. Where did she go? The Bridget at 112 East Woolman doesn't show up until 1942. The will drawn up that is attributed to our Bridget is by a woman still living in Anaconda City instead of Butte, which is ignored, who was obviously not senile enough to have forgotten her husbands parents on his death certificate. There is no Bridget living at 112 Woolman in 1945. Again where did she go? In 1948 a Bridget Sullivan is a resident of the county hospital, not living with relatives. The fact that the informant for the 1948 death certificate was the county hospital would seem to indicate she died alone. No relatives to give information. The husbands name is not listed. We don't even know if this woman was married to John M. at all. There is no proof.

My conclusion after finding so much erroneous information is the whole Anaconda Bridget is a figment of lore.

It's a funny thing you know but I believe one of the Dianna Porter photos is of 701 Alder Street. The house is still there, can be found on Streetview, and I believe there's a match with the background of the photo of a couple 'at Alder Street'. Is this woman the Bridget Sullivan? Seems so. But is that 'her husband' standing next to her, the John M. Sullivan who bought the property? Since Irish found the photograph of Eugene Sullivan, I seriously wonder. The man in the Alder Street photo looks exactly like Eugene.

Since Bridget is very nicely turned out in visiting-dress, I wonder if it's a photo of Bridget and her brother on a visit to Alder Street - but it's been misinterpreted. And if it does show 'Bridget in her seventies' as the Porter sisters believed, the John M. they ascribe to her as her husband is already dead.

I know what you mean about Anaconda Bridget. It's as if her biography is a patchwork, made of bits of official records. She never feels right. I've found another Bridget Sullivan, an alternative Bridget, who is very amusing. She's succeeded in changing her identity over three times so far & it's been quite a chase. I don't think anyone could discover her intentionally, she's so well-hidden; only stumble into her by accident. People sometimes do make themselves hard to trace. The Bordens' Bridget had good reason. Do you ever wonder if she went and hid herself good?

KGDevil wrote:

InterestedReader wrote:

KGDevil wrote:It's easy to pick one and make it fit if you ignore everything that doesn't.

My conclusion after finding so much erroneous information is the whole Anaconda Bridget is a figment of lore.

I've also been chasing a "Bridgie" Sullivan and have mapped out her entire family. That's what I was working on just yesterday. She at first looked good for our Bridgie of Judge Winston fame. Her story has also been quite interesting to follow. I wish I could post it all here. I could just post my research as "Possible Bridgie Sullivans".

by InterestedReader » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:34 pm


The neice, Mary, Mrs Timothy Sullivan of 112 E. Woolman St.... 
Trying to establish just how she was Bridget's neice, exactly how they were related, I looked most of yesterday for her marriage with Timothy. Could not find the thing.
I see her death in 1951. (Stomach cancer. At 49.) I can find the Census records for Mary, Timothy and their children. But not the marriage.
On her death certificate it says her father was 'Jerry Sullivan' and her mother is unknown. (Even though her son is the informant. That Timothy the police officer who would die in the homicide, KD).

Has anyone managed to get their marriage and see Her mother's name?
Or established Mary's mother from her birth record?

InterestedReader » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:18 pm

irishlass78 wrote:
Ok...found this on a genealogy board in response to Naomi Farthing's post. This is the link: http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... .1/mb.ashx

Bridget Sullivan/FallRiver,MA/Butte,MT
Replies: 3
Re: Bridget Sullivan/FallRiver,MA/Butte,MT
Chris (View posts)
Posted: 8 Sep 2001 6:03AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Sullivan
After watching a special on Lizzie Borden on tv, I was prompted to look into this more. I vaguely remember my paternal grandmother, Mildred (now deceased) mentioning that her mother was the maid for Lizzie Borden. I know my great grandmother's name was Bridget and I believe her husband name was John. I do remember my grandmother saying that her father was blind. I seem to remember that both of their surnames were Sullivan. My grandmother had 4 siblings - one of whose name was John. She had 2 brothers - neither of which I believe married. I know the family lived in Massachussetts, but never heard of the move to Montana as all information from Borden case seems to imply. I do remember her telling me that my great grandparents immigrated from Cork County. Would be interested in hearing more.


Do you think it's the following family?

If so they make a change.
This Bridget is living on Fall River's Second Srreet. She chose to make it her home.
Her husband was a Church Sexton
This Bridget waits til she's 70 for a rare burst of honesty about her age.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4X1-H27

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XQLS-4MJ

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MXTR-Z1K

1910 residence 412 Monroe St.
1916 residence 701 Alder
1939 Bridget Sullivan (wid. John M.) h. 701 Alder
1942 Mrs. Bridget Sullivan, 112 E. Woolman

by InterestedReader » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:56 pm

Irish, according to the information posted below, Timothy ('"Bantry Tim") married Mary in Casper Wyoming in 1921. I am trying to find this marriage. Woo. Elusive, this one.

So did you see this stuff? Naomi again. She makes Timothy's parentage entirely different from the poster you cite. She's specific about the marriage to Mary so I hope you can find it.

My husband's father, Timothy O'Sullivan, was born in Bantry, Ireland 25Nov1891, son of Joseph or John O'Sullivan and Bridget McCarthy, and come to America as a young man. We have been unable to locate any other records of his life in Ireland. We know he was in Casper, WY in 1921 when he and Mary Sullivan of Co. Cork, Ireland were married. They settled in Butte, MT where he worked as a miner and died in 1937 after a mining accident. He was baptized in Cork in 1895 according to information on his marriage certificate. Where could I began my search for information on this man. Thank you. Naomi

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/thread.asp ... s.sullivan

...The only information that I have about Timothy O'Sullivan is that he was born in Bantry, Ireland 25Nov1891 and was baptized in Cork in 1895 (from his marriage certificate). His parents were Bridget McCarthy and Jno.O'Sullivan. I do not know what the abbreviation, Jno., stands for. It appeared that way on the marriage certificate. He siblings, all born in Ireland, included Lizzie (possibly Elizabeth), Kate, Patrick, John, Mike, Dan, Dennis, Ellie, and Mary Ann. He was known as "Bantry Tim" in Butte, MT where he worked as a miner. I know this isn't much to go by. I just hope someone may have a little information that I can use in my search. Thank you. Naomi

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... 68/mb.ashx

There may well be more on this thread of use to you. If you haven't already seen it all.

So far I only have Timothy's Draft card 1917 in Casper & what looks like his Da or other relative in Casper, in 1930

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K687-J25

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7WW-ZRM

irishlass78 wrote:

1910 residence 412 Monroe St.
1916 residence 701 Alder
1939 Bridget Sullivan (wid. John M.) h. 701 Alder
1942 Mrs. Bridget Sullivan, 112 E. Woolman

The Mrs. Bridget Sullivan living at 112 E. Woolman in 1942 could be Timothy Sullivan's mother, Bridget (McCarthy) Sullivan.

irishlass78 wrote:
Hi Wendy!

Great job finding this information! I've been looking for the marriage in Montana all this time! I'm trying to find Wyoming marriage records, but so far, no luck...drat!

KGDevil wrote:I'm completely confused. Now we're looking for information that it may have been Bridget Sullivan's niece Mary's mother in law that lived at 112 Woolman? Timothy Sullivan of 112 E. Woolman died of double pneumonia in 1937.

by KGDevil » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:39 pm

I'm completely confused. Now we're looking for information that it may have been Bridget Sullivan's niece Mary's mother in law that lived at 112 Woolman? Timothy Sullivan of 112 E. Woolman died of double pneumonia in 1937.

by InterestedReader » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:58 pm

Irish, do you have the book 'Who Were My Ancestors' by Riobard O'Dwyer? Apparently, Mary Sullivan's entire family is listed on pp. 256 and 290.

See
http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.s ... 64/mb.ashx

I can't for the life of me find this 1921 Timothy & Mary marriage. Or any Wyoming marriage.

irishlass78 wrote: And I'm having no luck finding the marriage record, either. It could be that Wyoming marriage records haven't been digitalized yet.

KGDevil wrote:If the theory is that it was Bridget Mccarthy Sullivan living at 112 East Woolman the straight forward approach would be to look for a death certificate for Bridget Mccarthy Sullivan.

KGDevil wrote:I actually found a family tree that someone had started on ancestry with a "Timothy or Bantry Tim Sullivan" who married a "Mary or Dursey Mary O'Sullivan". The only source they had listed for the family of Timothy and Mary was the 1930 Census and the ancestry family tree information they had found in other family trees.

KGDevil wrote:In this tree Timothy was born in Ireland in 1890, parents and siblings are not known. He married Mary in Butte in 1922.

InterestedReader wrote:This will sound deeply daft but I've only just looked at a map to understand the distance between Montana and Massachusetts. It means shifting amost the entire width of the continent. (No, I hadn't realised.) Clearly, if you've already crossed the Atlantic to escape dire poverty a bit extra won't seem daunting. All the same, how often did Irishwomen settle in one state then resettle so far from the first? Was it just something they did & not thought unusual?