A Stitch In Time...

This the place to have frank, but cordial, discussions of the Lizzie Borden case

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Grace
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Post by Grace »

So according to that ad that Harry posted, a pattern would be sold that also contained material for the dress. Is that right? I only ever saw them sold without...
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Harry
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Post by Harry »

It appears to me that the term "dress pattern" was applied to both paper and material. In the Borden case the reference is to material by Lizzie's own words.
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Post by Ad »

DJ @ Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:46 am wrote:(one a blue gingham, one a pink-and-white stripe).
Didn't Lizzie wear a blue gingham on the morning of the 4th and then she changed into a pink and white stripe wrap in the afternnon?
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Post by Shelley »

The general consensus was Lizzie wore a summer calico, light blue background with some sort of darker blue figure, sprig, diamond, cloverleaf, etc. on it. She changed into a pink and white striped wrapper after Abby was found and she went up to her room. Harrington's description of it was an eye-popper! I would LOVE to have met Harrington.
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Post by Shelley »

duplicate post
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Post by Shelley »

Thanks, AOL :razz:
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Post by DJ »

W/O checking, I believe she changed into a pink wrapper (a nice-looking houserobe). From the way Mrs. Churchill described Lizzie's dress-- it was a light-blue "calico," covered with a diamond-shaped pattern in a darker blue. (The dress that Lizzie was wearing when the stampede commenced.)
Going back to the subject of Lizzie sewing a dress: Wasn't she capable of doing something easy, as in stitching together a simple, pre-cut dress pattern?
IOW: If Lizzie intended to destroy clothing, her seamstress may well have been able to give an account of what was missing. Lizzie burns the dress in front of Emma and Alice Russell on the pretext of the alleged longstanding paint stain. If the seamstress had been brought in and wondered, say, what happened to Lizzie's la-la-la dress, it would have been too bad for Lizzie.
I recall the seamstress gave damaging testimony about Lizzie calling Abby "a mean old thing," or some such. She definitely seemed to be an "up your bidness," chatty type.
ANYWAY: It would have BEHOOVED Lizzie to throw together a cheap dress, if she planned to bloody, then burn it.
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Post by DJ »

To clarify: Going back to my earlier post, I believe Lizzie burned two dresses:
One, the a.m. of the Fatal Fourth (the one in which she murdered Abby).
Two, the infamous "paint stained" one, the one she may have been wearing under something else, when she murdered her Father.
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Post by Kat »

I don't see where the inference comes in the Globe item that Harry posted, that the term *dress pattern* included a description of the material itself.
We did figure out long past, I think, that the *pattern* back then included the dress goods material. The ad Har showed pretty much says pattern and 8 yards of goods/material. (Thanks Har!)

Also, remember Lizzie's outfit she wore on Thursday was not a single dress, but a skirt and blouse= 2 pieces.

Yes Lizzie could have burned the Bedford cord and another outfit for all we know. One because of paint (proven thru testimony), the other due to blood (speculation if she *did it*).

It's very weird that whilst you all were contemplating this question about patterns, my friend came over from the coast with her sewing sister and I pulled out all my mother's old 1960's and 1970's patterns to show her! I had not touched those in 20 years!

Anyway, this testimony implies Lizzie did sew:

Trial
Emma
Q. Did you make any use of the guest chamber?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What for?
A. As a sewing room.

Q. Anything else?
A. Why, we sat there in making it a sewing room.

Q. Anything else beside that?
A. Except when someone came that we put there to sleep.

Page 1564/ i587

Q. Anything else?
A. No, sir.

Q. Did you receive your friends there?
A. Oh, just as it happened. If it was someone we were very well acquainted with and we were in there sewing, we had them come up.


Q. And didn't you usually receive your friends there?
A. No, sir.

Q. Didn't you usually receive Miss Russell there?
A. Very often.


--Alice had not seen Mrs. Borden in a long time, so the we in sewing must be Lizzie.

Closing at trial, Robinson for defense, 1687:
. . . You will remember that Mrs. Raymond, the dressmaker, a lady to all appearances, who came and testified of their being together a few months before, four of them, during dress making, sitting in the guest chamber sewing, a regular dressmaking party. Phillip Harrington ought to have been there and had the whole style developed to him, to learn more than he knows, if it is possible to put anything into his head on the subject. There they are. Was that an angry family? Was that a murderous group?

Also, Mrs. Raymond
Trial page 1577

Q. What portion of that time, if any, have you also done dressmaking for Mrs. Borden and Miss Emma.
A. I worked for Mrs. Borden, not for Miss Emma---for Mrs. Borden during that time.

Q. Where did you do the work for Mrs. Borden?
A. In the same room that I did Miss Lizzie's.

Q. At or about the same time?
A. Yes, sir; at the same time.

Q. Would it be at the same time you were making the others?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. Both of them in there at the same time working?
A. Yes, sir.


-----

Page 1578

Q. Did the girls assist in the making?
A. Yes, sir.
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Post by Shelley »

Being able to sew was a skill nearly all Victorian women possessed. They made doll clothing as little girls, learned embroidery, cutting out simple patterns, hem-stitching and basic skills they would need for when they had a family of their own. Society women even had sewing circles and sewed for charity. Some women did fancy work to pass the time or for a hobby and at no time since has "busy work" been so prolific as the Victorian era. There was testimony that the Bedford cord was made up by the dressmaker. A dressmaker would often come seasonally, often making up cut-out patterns on her machine for the women of the house. My grandmother used to take me to such a woman in town for the summer clothing, back to school, etc.
We know Lizzie mended a sleeve on her dress on the day of the murders also. And there had been the gossip mentioned above about a conversation that Abby was 'A mean old thing and we don't talk about her" or words to that effect, which took place at a dressmakers (on 4th St.?). I am sure Lizzie COULD sew, Emma and Abby too. I don't know if she did major sewing , like making an entire dress, or if rather she bought the patterns to be "run up" by her hired seamstress. She seemed, by newspaper description to be an extremely neat and well turned out person. I would imagine she would want a professonal job of tailoring with attention to detail in finishing and accessories. I made quite a study of newspaper descriptions of all of Lizzie's clothing when I published my first collection of Lizzie paperdolls back in 1993 and was impressed by her fashion knowledge in her choices.
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Post by Kat »

That's cool. But without naming any names, you had said Lizzie did not do her own sewing. I was trying to be discreet. :smile:
We know Lizzie had her dresses made up- she did not do her own sewing. There are several references to this.
--Shell, partial
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Post by Susan »

I'm a bit behind on this thread, but, had a couple of questions that perhaps Shelley could answer? I'm familiar with checked gingham, though Lizzie refers to her unmade dress pattern as having stripes. Could gingham be striped and not checked? And also, I read that when a gingham has more than two colors to it, it is then referred to as a plaid gingham. Lizzie does mention 3 colors to her unmade dress, pink, white and blue. So, would it have been a plaid sort of gingham then?
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Post by Shelley »

Yes, gingham as stated above somewhere in a post can be plaid, checked, striped or printed in a pattern. The word gingham originally meant striped cloth.
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Post by twinsrwe »

Barbara @ Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:53 am wrote:Twinsrwe, I have used "patterns' bought and hand-made for many years. Yet Harry and others have used the turn to mean the fabric the clothing was made from as the dress"pattern". I guess at one point in time the two were interchangeable,they may have sewn from measurements ,not paper shapes to trace.
Whatever, Barbara.
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Post by Shelley »

Okay, I am willing to rephrase that statement causing controversy above..
We know that Lizzie had a seamstress, and had her dresses made up for her, and that there are a few references to that which I can find if need be. Lizzie could afford to have someone make up her dresses. In the source documents we have from 1892-1893, I can't find anything coming from Lizzie or a witness saying that Lizzie made up her own dresses. We know there was a machine in the guest room, and we know Lizzie mended a garment, she basted a tape on a sleeve on the morning of August 4th. Women of that era could all pretty much sew- and cook- and do most domestic things or had knowledge of domestic things even if they were very rich because they needed to know how to give orders and run their mansions.
I also have no doubt that Lizzie and probably Emma both could make up a dress if they had to do it, and maybe even hemmed a skirt or assisted the seamstress with finishing details. I have made many 1890's dresses and matching skirts and blouses and 8 yards is exactly the amount the patterns call for for both.
The issue on deck here, as I see it is that pattern she bought, with its 8 yards or so of fabric which had not yet been made up. It sounds like summer cloth and a summer color to me- pastel gingham. Gingham is most assuredly a summer fabric. This was August-maybe the intent was to either to have it made up soon for the 1892 summer season or store it away until the Spring for the following hot weather season. No mention was made that the unmade one looked like anything else in Lizzie's closet, so I don't see how she might have been planning to make duplicate dresses, secretly with the thought of having an identical clean one to change into while she burned another. I can see how the prosecution was keen to find any piece of cloth they thought might furnish a reason why no visible blood was seen on her person. In the end I believe the dress pattern was only that- a cheap sale pattern she got shopping on her trip. All the stores were having mad end of season sales. Since it was not made up, and there would have been no advantage in swathing herself with 8 yards of dress material to kill someone, I can see how that line of inquiry petered out. I also think if she had sewed up a brand new gingham summer dress herself, somebody would have known of this- Emma or Bridget at the least. If she had sewed up two identical dresses, it would have been a household sensation. It would have taken some clever maneuvering to have done either and not be heard or seen.
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Post by Kat »

Barbara @ Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:53 am wrote:
Twinsrwe, I have used "patterns' bought and hand-made for many years. Yet Harry and others have used the turn to mean the fabric the clothing was made from as the dress"pattern". I guess at one point in time the two were interchangeable,they may have sewn from measurements ,not paper shapes to trace.
I too have been confused as to what was meant by a *pattern.* I think they used to include the material with the tissue-paper-like clothing pattern that one cut out- ie: sleeve, ruffle, collar, etc.
The ad Harry posted included the material. It's interesting to note the 8 yards, as Harry pointed out- and as Shelley explains as well.
In fact, I was wondering exactly that- how much 8 yards went towards making a dress or suit back in the day. That's also a lot of material to burn! I wonder how long that would take in the stove fire?

Thanks Shell for the further explanation!
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Post by Kat »

Here is a news story for you Barbara, on your friend the "Lizzie Borden fan" from 1993! :smile:
The pictures will follow in another posting.
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Post by Kat »

Isn't she pretty?

It's a pretty big file size. If people have problems, let me know, OK?
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Post by twinsrwe »

Thank you Shelley and Kat; I appreciate your help in clearing up the matter of what is meant by the word pattern. The thread and particularly the ad that Harry provided have been most helpful in clearing up the confusion. The third item listed in the ad, clearly shows that the material and tissue paper were sold together. Harry, thank you for posting this information.

Barbara, I am sorry if I offended you in any way - I certainly didn't mean to. Apparently, I wasn't the only one who was confused by the word pattern.
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Post by Kat »

Did ya'll like the news item? Isn't is cool?!! :cool:
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