The Victims' Clothes???

[FairhavenGuy]

I'm thinking that we know the difference between human hair and animal hair could be determined at the time, because wasn't a hair found on a hatchet that was identified as a cow hair?

So could they match hairs to specific people in 1892? Hair and fiber evidence can be very important today and both are things that could have been found on the victims' clothing.

[Kat]

I was thinking about hair and fibre too, Chris. I was thinking it may not have held up in court, but at that time would a cop know to preserve such a thing? Even just to eyeball it, and compare? The same, really, goes for a fingerprint. If a girl's fingerprint was found in blood on the body of Andrew or Abby, wouldn't they notice?

The trial exhibits and evidence lists are thus. Notice no bloody chlothing.

"The following articles which had been offered in evidence during the progress of the trial were selected from among the exhibits in the case by counsel and sent to the jury:

Pages 1927-1928
Plans and photographs marked as exhibits in the case.
Skulls of Mr. and Mrs. A. J. Borden.
Bedspread and pillow shams.
Handkerchief found by Mrs. Borden's body.
Piece of doorframe taken from inside of dining room.
Piece of moulding taken from guest chamber west of dressing case.
Piece of plaster.
Two axes.
Claw-hammer hatchet.
Hatchet with plain head.
Handleless hatchet and bit of wood.
Blue blouse and dress skirt.
White skirt.
Magnifying glass.


Pages 1608+


LIST OF EXHIBITS.

1. Large plan, showing main street and other streets.
2. Plan of Borden premises, and surrounding estates.
3. Plan of Borden premises, including ground floor of house.
4. Plan of Borden premises, including second story.
5. Plan of sitting room.
6. Blue print of Exhibit 3.
7. Blue print of Exhibit 4.
8. Blue print of Borden premises and surrounding estates.
9. Plan of cellar.
10 - 14. Photographs of Borden house.
15 - 19. Photographs of bodies.
20 - 21. Carpets.
22. Tag attached to jar containing Mr. Borden's stomach.
23. Tag attached to jar containing Mrs. Borden's stomach.
24 - 43. Small photographs of Borden premises.
44. Pin produced by Mr. Adams for comparison, in connection with testimony of Professor Wood.
(All item numbers inclusive.)"

--The pin was to compare the spot found on Lizzie's petticoat and the magnifying glass was also extra to help the jury look closely at certain items.
I wonder if they did?

We need the newspapers or Rebello to remind us when the clothes were dug up and retained for the last time.

[Kat]

Here is a snippet from the Bloston Globe, Aug. 9th, 1892, reporting on events from the 8th, Monday. We might ask ourselves if this was such a secretive enterprise, how did the *details* get published the next day?
The event the paper alludes to just before this section is related to the finding of what appeared to be blood on a hatchet handle by the Mayor, a doctor. Apparently this seemed an important clew for a long time- maybe in deference to His Honor.

The headline reads: "No Footprint."

[Susan]

Thanks for posting that, Kat. Interesting, that is the first time I've read that portions of the elder Borden's clothing was cut off and saved. Do you think we can put any stock in this or would this just be another news story to take with a huge grain of salt? I really don't recall it being mentioned in any source documents.

[Kat]

I figured since we don't know, this is as good a source as any. They were right about the piece of carpet.
It makes sense that they cut up the clothes. It might be what happened to Andrew's Prince Albert coat.

Thanks for noticing the item posted. It's reception has been underwhelming so far.
It takes several of us to reach a consensus.

[Susan]

You're welcome, Kat. The bloodstained scraps of material didn't make it into the exhibets introduced in the court like the carpet did. I wonder why not when they brought in bloodstained pillow shams as evidence, would it have fallen more under that category? Do you think it may have been for some sort of testing of the blood itself? The jury knew the victims had been bludgeoned with a hatchet and that it was bloody, were the bloodstained articles there to bring this point home? And if so, how much more effective would it have been to bring in the full, uncut, bloodstained garments of the victims.

[Kat]

They probably didn't know how to preserve this stuff for 10 months. No air conditioning.
Burying it or storing it in an underground vault might have worked, but one leak and you've got moldy bloody material!

The bedspread is unique in that it shows the direction of blood spatter. I suppose the pillow shams did too.

The drops on the spread looked like dashes to me, teardrop shaped. Since the thing is folded, one does not know which part of the speard is exposed in the exhibit, other than it's the bottom edge.
They knew about directionality, at least, in 1892.

[theebmonique]

Thank you Kat. I did not know the clothing had been cut up when it was put in the ground.

I would love to get a look at the bedspread. Maybe my third try will be the charm huh ?


Tracy...

[Smudgeman]

They could have taken pictures of the bloody clothes, pillow shams, and bedding. Although, I guess pictures in black & white would be less effective than color. Why not take pictures and cut samples? Pictures of the victims with their clothing on, and pictures seperately of just the clothing?

[sguthmann]

Where can one find pictures of the bedspread and other exhibits mentioned from the trial? Or were they all "disposed of?"

Kat, thanks for the article - very interesting!

[Susan]

They probably didn't know how to preserve this stuff for 10 months. No air conditioning.
Burying it or storing it in an underground vault might have worked, but one leak and you've got moldy bloody material!

The bedspread is unique in that it shows the direction of blood spatter. I suppose the pillow shams did too.

The drops on the spread looked like dashes to me, teardrop shaped. Since the thing is folded, one does not know which part of the speard is exposed in the exhibit, other than it's the bottom edge.
They knew about directionality, at least, in 1892.

True, they probably had no idea how to store these items so that they weren't contaminated in any way. I can see why they would introduce the pillow shams and the bedspread, but, why that piece of carpeting or both pieces (from the sitting room and guest room), what was the point?


Sguthmann, the bedspread and other items are at the Fall River Historical Society:

It's all here for you to see: the handleless hatchet, her prison lunch pail, the police photographs taken at the scene of the crime, the billy club the arresting officer carried, the pillow shams from the bedroom that Abby was murdered in, the photographs of Andrew and Abby's crushed skulls introduced as evidence, the braided hairpiece that Abby was wearing when she was so nefariously attacked…and enough material in our archive to attract historians, scholars, playwrights, researchers and filmmakers from the far corners of the globe.

Here is a link to their site:
http://www.lizzieborden.org/bordencollection.htm

Heres a pic of some of the stuff, I don't know for sure, but, that thing under the handless hatchet head is either a pillow sham or the bedspread.

[Kat]

Your picture doesn't show to me, Susan.

[Kat]

Is this the pic you posted Susan?
When I went to the site the pic was not there!

I had saved this page as HTML so I took a desktop photo of it for youse guys.
I had thought that was the bedspread. Now I don't know if it's a pillow sham. It doesn't look very big, does it?
The display now is horizontal, not vertical, like this.

[Susan]

Yes, thats the one, Kat. Odd, the pic didn't show for me either, but, I right clicked on it and clicked on "show picture" and it did. Yeah, I'm kind of thinking that thing is a pillow sham. When you saw the bedspread, did they take it out of somewhere, stored away for safekeeping? Or, is it on display in a case like the other items?

[theebmonique]

Thank you both for the pictures.

Seeing the hatchet reminds me of seeing the picture of our dear Kat holding it !

Tracy...

[Kat]

I heard that everything will be out always now. But I'm not sure.
What we saw was already displayed in glass cases in the last room on the right (if you're coming in the back circular-drive entrance).

This picture might have been taken by standing on a ladder looking down, now that I examine it more.

There are more cases and things are spead out a bit.

[Susan]

You know, I think you may be right, Kat. That looks like a reflection of an overhead light on the glass. I still find it amazing that these items still exist and are in a collection, not tossed or lost or forgotten about somewhere.

[john]

Interesting since the FBI wasn't founded until 1932.

[Kat]

Interesting since the FBI wasn't founded until 1932.

The letter was dated April 4, 1946.