Ebay offering

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Thu May 11, 2006 1:01 pm

Thanks for the response Lyddie.

Yes, I find it unethical to publish the book as it was issued.

What happened was that the book sold well, and the temptation to publish more was great and the publisher then fell on his face and did so.

All they needed do was change the cloth color, to perhaps a conservative brown. This would make the bold statement that it was not the original 1000 copy editions.

The other way they could have done it was to publish the book, say, signed and numbered, with another exact issue with out the limited edition declaration and signature, but, "but," it should have been done all at once, at first issue, and advertised to the public as so and sold at a cheaper rate. This way more copies could have been published in the future and the limited signed edition would grow in value.

It's to bad that they stooped to this publishing practice, more so since the King Phillip Publishers have done a wonderful job with their publications and a great service to Lizzie studies. Even the books are well constructed in a printing world where glue and cheap paper is the norm.

Still a must have for Lizzie collectors and in my opinion takes nothing away from the value of the book.

Thanks again Lyddie, you too Eric.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:08 pm

Ryckebusch's book back on ebay. This is a title you don't see often, though not considered scarce or rare it's an uncommon title.

This copy has a reserve on it. Its basically a 75 to 100 doallar book, but you may be lucky to find it at a cheaper cost. But every dealer today with a Lizzie title thinks that they have something of great value; not always true.

Listings on the net of Ryckebusche's book are running at a range of a 70 dollar low to 165 dollars high. If you come across a copy at your local used book store it could be had at a much more reasonable cost.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1992-Lizzie-Borden- ... dZViewItem

JUNE 20, 2006 Update/edit, The Ryckebusche book sold for 65 dollars, one bid.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:53 am

OK here we go again. Many have showed interest in what books Lizzie had read. If true here's a fantastic find, next best thing to a Lizzie signed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Loveliness-Eliz-S-P ... dZViewItem

Oh, oh, just found something else, from the same seller:
http://cgi.ebay.com/V-V-s-Eyes-Owned-In ... dZViewItem

Did Lizzie write those tree letters, L.A.B. (???)

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:16 pm

Thanks Michael for calling it to our attention.

Found this web page on Ms. Phelps:

http://www.readseries.com/auth-oz/phelps-daught.html

She certainly sounds like she could have known the Borden "girls".

Wonder why she didn't use Emma's name instead of Miss Borden.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:30 pm

Thanks Harry: What a nice job they did on that bio.

You know many people loved writing their signature or proof of ownership in a book in those days. Many others did not, and when the book was discarded they would rip out the page with the signature. There are thousands of these books out there with the free end page ripped out.

Emma, being such a private person, may not have wanted her name in it. By that date Lizzie and Emma's discord must have been stewing, and Emma may have started to place a little distance between her and her sister and insisted that the author keep her name out.......(????) Makes you wonder though>?

They didn't have signings in those days, that is to say, at bookstores and such, so the Borden sisters must have met Ms. Phelps.

Thanks Harry

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:44 pm

After the arrival of family friend Alice Russell and "Dr. Bowen", neighbor Adelaide Churchill asked Lizzie where her mother was.

--e-bay sale

and

A turning point in the trial was the dramatic unveiling of the victims' rotting skulls;

--e-bay sales pitch

Why do these phrases sound familiar? Did we read these recently?

Notice the *Dr. Bowen* is in quotes.

It doesn't explain where they got the book, either. Am I missing something? Harry didn't you find other Borden ladies in Fall River?

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:53 pm

They pulled those crap quotes from Wikipedia. See http://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizz ... wikipedia/ for details of my recent frustrations. See how junk gets repeated? Scandalous.

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:55 pm

The LAB signature book comes from what the seller says is a group of 6 books purchased from the daughter of Lizzie's chauffeur. Lizzie gave the books to the daughter in her lifetime and so they were not technically part of her estate. Anybody know if this could be true? Or is it hogwash?

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/MondoLizz ... -thickens/

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:12 pm

According to Rebello, page 327, the chauffer Ernest Terry did have a daughter, Grace L. and a son Ernest Jr.

In her will Lizzie left $2,000 to each of them and also a parcel of land near Maplecroft (Belmont St) to the boy.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:28 pm

Well, let's see here....

My acquaintance knew Ms. Borden as a child.

I wonder if this person might be Grace Terry? It's speculation of course, but she - the chauffer's daughter - is named in the will as recipient of some $2,000.

That knew Ms. Borden as a child though. On its face, the seller seems to suggest that Grace Terry is still alive (I'm judging strictly on the language here in thinking that.) Of course it's possible that she could be. Don't know... Eighty years is a long time. Child is of course subjective. But let's say a "child" is - I'd say five to twelve years of age is fair for a start.

Longevity is of course a different thing these days than it used to be.

Do we know much of anything about Grace Terry, aside that she was bequeathed $2,000?

I'd be inclined suspicious, but that's just me.

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:36 pm

I see that. It also says that Grace Terry was a minor when Lizzie died. Grace was still alive in 1955 when her father, Ernest Sr. died. The seller is asserting these books were purchased from someone who purchased them from Grace? However, the note says that the purchaser "recently" bought them from Grace. Any thoughts?

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:26 pm

Well, according to Len Rebello's book (at about 326 or 327) Grace L. Terry could have been no older than seven years at the time of Lizzie's demise, since we have the assertion that ... [m]y acquaintance knew Ms. Borden as a child. We can dedeuce this because we know that the elder E. L. Terry was employed as chauffer from 1920-'27. So it is technically possible that Grace could be very much alive, and have recently sold those items. Still...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:45 pm

"...a local woman personally known to me..." may not be the same person as "My acquaintance knew Ms. Borden as a child."
Shouldn't the authentifying letter be shown up front, rather than after the sale:?:

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:51 pm

And another:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Book-of-Inscription ... 0000550216

This one with the maplecroft seal. Hmmm. curiouser and curiouser.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:58 pm

Shouldn't the authentifying letter be shown up front, rather than after the sale?

You betcha!! Show me your provenance, buzzard - then we might talk a little turkey...as it were.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:03 am

It looks to me like the maplecroft seal was photoshopped into that page.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:18 am

That second item... hmm that's interesting... If you compare the two sets of initials, the one (1913) is a "double-looped open" L (my term), while the other is similar, but the loops are closed.

The samples we have of Lizzie's capital L's - the loops are not that well-defined, are they? (They don't appear so to my eyes, anyway.)

william · Post by **william** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:26 am

Stefani:

The seven books given to Second Street by Leslie Featherstone, whose great aunt was second wife of Ernest Terry, Lizzie's chauffeur, were authenticated as once the property of Lizzie Borden.

One of the books had the "Maplecroft" seal.
Six of the books had the bookseller's label

Two of he the books had the initioals "L. A. B." rendered in calligraphic style. Lizzie, as you know, was a disciple of good penmanship. The initials on the specimen you provided, are just ordinary script style.

william · Post by **william** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:31 am

Kat, Yes, you're absolutely right, provenance up front ALWAYS.

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:44 am

On the same subject, can anyone explain to me why the book signed by the author to the Bordens, would be far out pacing the copies with the supposed Lizzie initials? I would think that if the initials were by the hand of Lizzie they would bring a high price than that of an authors note.

stuartwsa · Post by **stuartwsa** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:42 pm

Eric, I have many friends and associates that sell on eBay. All are of differing opinions when it comes to posting items for auction.
Some will set reserve prices on items, to make sure that they at least break even for what they paid for them.
Others will put up items with no reserve and a low starting bid. They say that a set reserve will frighten away potential bidders. They also feel that, reserve or not, the item will sell for what it's supposed to sell for.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:26 pm

Lizzie (Half) letter (note) sells for 2500.00

A true reflection of what the market is currently selling Lizzie's hand for.

To anyone with I very valued item to sell it's a good lesson. Find a reputable auctions house that deals in the item you are selling. Thus, the reason it sold for so much. Ebay is the wrong place, and as you can see, it sold "Live" and for premium. (not to an ebay buyer) The fever of on the floor bidding is tremendous. Many travel a long way and are not prepared to be beaten........

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBa ... AMEWA%3AIT

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:18 pm

mbhenty @ Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:26 am wrote:

Lizzie (Half) letter (note) sells for 2500.00

A true reflection of what the market is currently selling Lizzie's hand for.

To anyone with I very valued item to sell it's a good lesson. Find a reputable auctions house that deals in the item you are selling. Thus, the reason it sold for so much. Ebay is the wrong place, and as you can see, it sold "Live" and for premium. (not to an ebay buyer) The fever of on the floor bidding is tremendous. Many travel a long way and are not prepared to be beaten........
http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBa ... AMEWA%3AIT

That is so true, Michael.

I remember being taught 30 years ago the importance of knowing ahead of time the maximum I am willing to bid on a house at public auction. People get caught up in the thrill and end up paying 2, 3, 4 times what they intended to pay. It can be a poker game.

-1bigsteve (o:

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:45 pm

Looking at the ebay site below one can only laugh. What ridiculous and reckless claims this seller makes. Got this off of Mondo......

You know Stefani the prints are probably for another Borden family in Fall River. Not only does he get the name all wrong but he makes some perpostorous claims about Lizzie and her finances etc. etc.

But you know, the house in those plans look very similar to a couple of houses in Fall River. As a matter a fact it looks just like the Oliver Hawes house at 458 Maple street which was built in 1908. When you come out of the historical Society, the side entrance, you cross the street (Maple) and head east to the next corner, cross High street and there it is right on the corner, the Hawes House.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lizzy-Borden-Mansio ... dZViewItem

Also with a little modification it could be the Anna Borden House built in 1917. The Anna Borden house would make sense since it was drawn up for a Misses Borden. The Anna Borden house could pass with a little modification and missing the porch on the right. The Anna Borden House should be known to most who have visited the FRHS. If you walk out the front door of the FRHS and look to the next corner just to the right to the North across the street is the Anna Borden House, made of yellow Brick.

These are just two buildings that come quickly to mind that look very similar to the house plans.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:56 pm

Here are 458 Maple and the blueprint from E-Bay for comparison. Be aware of difering views.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:25 pm

WOW!!!!!!!!!! Kat, that's fantastic. Yes the blue print you have displayed is the Rear of the "Blue Print House." There's another one just like it in the ebay offering showing the front. But as you can see it is very close, huh?

COUL, Thanks greatly Kat.......Nice photo. It is difficult to get a shot standing in front of the house since the hedges are all over grown blocking the view. But from the side it looks like you have captured it beautifully.

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:42 pm

congrats, mbhenty!

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:28 pm

Thanks greatly Stefani.

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:44 am

I am bidding on several of the remaining Borden books on sale on eBay, as some of you know. My username is dylangirl and I don't want anyone to think that they shouldn't bid because I am bidding.

eBay is an auciton site and I hold NO grudges against anyone outbidding me. Please don't let my interest in any Borden object hold any of you back from bidding yourselves. If you want something, go for it!

Mark A. · Post by **Mark A.** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:43 pm

Don't worry about me out-bidding you Stef. The books are a little out of my price range. I do hope that you win at least one. Good luck.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:58 pm

MARK !

Long time no post ! It's good to see you back on the forum !

Tracy...

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:08 pm

Which Dylan is it Stefani, Bob or Tommy boy (or ?) ?

Mark A. · Post by **Mark A.** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:26 pm

Hi Tracy,
I'm still checking in and keeping up on most of the threads. My lil' Katrina and Hannah keep me busy most of the time though.

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:38 pm

Katrina is so big! Oh look at those faces. The two prettiest girls in Fall Rivah.

Mark, I don't think I will win one, as the last one went for over $500. Mbhenty was smart to grab the first one of the lot. Now the rest, I am afraid will go very high. But perhaps, if I am lucky, I am wrong about that!

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:13 pm

The girls are beautiful Mark ! Thanks for sharing the picture !

Tracy...

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:32 pm

Yes the most recent sale on ebay of the initialed Lizzie book went for big bucks. (Book of Inscriptions by Esther Matson, 1914.) We are biding on some very uncommon items. After they are gone, they are gone. No one can tell how many are in private libraries if any at all. Are these the only one's Lizzie initialed? It may be 5, 10, 20 years before we see another. But again, it could be next week......we just do not know. It's not like you can say, "Oh I'll wait till the next group comes out." These are one of a kind items.

I have found by bidding on some more or less rare items on ebay that there are people out there with deep pockets. Let's say that Paris Hilton becomes interested in ebay, specifically Lizzie items. Well, I'm afraid that would be that. If she really wanted these books she could pick 500 dollars out from inbetween her teeth from the meal she had last night.

So if it is rare and you really want it I'm afraid that you need bid untill it hurts. But once the item arrives, OH, THE GLORY.............

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:35 pm

You really think that dreadful girl eats?

I would bet she takes in less food than I do and that is saying something!

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:48 pm

Yes Audrey, should have chosen someone with a more spotless reputation. As I was writing the post her name came on TV on some show so I used it.

She reminds me of Madonna. With all her sexual infractions, going thru life making tons of money polluting our children with stuff she would not let her own children watch. I consider her a sexual deviant. And she writes childrens books

But, so goes the world......

So, sorry Audrey bad choice, but sure you get the idea..........

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:54 pm

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:12 am

Love the delay Stefani....................

Would almost have bet that It was Thomas. Though if I am not mistaken that is where Bob got his name. I asked a friend of mine, who's a big fan of Bobby and he said that that is where Bob got the name but Bob would not admit to it, though it must be in his book.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:41 am

I just found a fine example on ebay awhile ago that brings home the truth of that ancient phrase Caveat emptor. At http://cgi.ebay.com/Garrison-Keillor-WL ... dZViewItem

someone has listed for sale a copy of WLT: A Radio Romance by Garrison Keillor. The starting bid is $29.95. The book is claimed to be a signed first edition with dust jacket with a limited run of 350 copies.

With this claim there are two problems at minimum:

First, as the photo indicates, there's no dust jacket - that edition never had one, but rather is slipcased.

Second, the "first edition" claim is nonsense. Nowhere in the front matter of the book (where it should be, bright and clear for a book of this vintage) do the words "first edition" appear - in any context. The ISBN also does not support the "first edition" claim.

The single grain of truth in that whole mess is this: The run was limited to 350 copies and is signed by Mr. Keillor. (Okay, that was two grains - sue me.)

I know this because I own the copy numbered 263. I purchased it from Barnes & Noble on the web a few days back - for about $6.00.

Sorry to have rambled a bit off topic here, but it aggravates me no end when ebay sellers do that sort of thing - in all likelihood knowing full well that their adverts. are (in whole or part) completely false.

I'm tempted to drop the seller a note about the ad, to the tune of "About this ad - there's something you really ought to know..."

On the upside, I couldn't be more pleased to have the book. I bought it completely unaware that it was a limited, signed edition.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:42 am

Oh thank you Mark for the picture! I just knew/felt it was time to see your cutie-pie girls again!

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:51 am

doug65oh and everyone. Read Fake: Forgery, Lies, and Ebay by Kenneth Walton. It is sure scary! It is about a guy who spent years ripping people off on ebay, selling art with fake signatures and shill bidding and all sorts of illegal things. It made me think of the movie jaws. It might make you not want to go into ebay waters again!

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:56 am

Thanks, Stefani, I'll hunt that one up. I've been lucky enough to never have had a single problem with sellers on ebay in...well, a little more than seven years - but then I don't buy things often from sellers there.

The nearest I came to an oddity - I won a bid several years ago on a biography of Daniel Webster published I think in 1853 or '54; the winning bit as I remember was $1. Anyway, the seller sent me a note within a day or two of the sale explaining that in listing the item she had made a mistake, somehow misfigured the amount for postage - would I mind paying a bit extra? I thought about it (strange it was, but the new amount was not wholly unreasonable) and agreed, mainly because the book - while not so scarce as hen's teeth - was and is pretty rare, especially for what I'd be paying. (I checked with the postal service just to be sure - and there had been a rate hike for "packaged" mail.)

I think my $1 item ended up costing me $6 or near that altogether. The big surprise came a few months later: It was the only time I've ever received a Christmas card from an ebay seller! Wished me pleasant holidays and thanked me again for being so understanding about her postage flub.

I recently had a seller cancel a purchase because of an apparent mistake in the listing of the item (as listed, it did not exist in their inventory) but the seller credited my account before the note explaining the mistake even arrived, so there was frustration but no harm nor foul in the end.

Apart from that, no runs, no drips, no errors where ebay is concerned.
There are though sharks aplenty out there, in ebay and elsewhere, trolling for just the right species of village boob. It really is scary.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:07 am

I take it that the Ebay Lizzie Books are considered to be the real thing?

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:38 am

Yes Fargo, they appear to be. I have recently seen similar copies at the Fall River Historical Society. Same Seal, same initials in the same places in the book. They are real!

But, I would say that they are NOT real. After all I have been bidding on them.

william · Post by **william** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:05 am

Hello Mike,

By any chance do you recall the title and author of the books at the FRHS?

A couple of years ago I checked them and the only the book they had was a volume named "Italy." I believe knowing the books Lizzie had in her library provides an insight into her personality.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHETHER YOU LIVE IN A PALACE OR CONDO
DON'T FORGET - CHECK OUT "MONDO."

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:50 am

Yes William:

Sorry, no.

In speaking with Mr. Martins I was so encrossed in considering the Initials and small little round book plate that I did not notice the titles, but they were similar to the ones being offered on ebay, obscure titles, novels, one small text book, no authors of interest or familiar titles; mostly fiction, no travel or books on foreign lands.

The books had just arrived at the FRHS within the past couple of weeks. So they were newly donated. Fun to handle.....

Thanks William, hope I have satisfied your couriosity.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:56 am

There is a copy of "Lizzie Borden A study in Conjecture" on Ebay right now with the Dust Jacket on it. I don't know if that is a rare find or not. I seen a few copies before without the Dust Jackets.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:24 pm

Yes Fargo: Lowndes book can be considered a scarce title and in dust jacket is surly rare.

Not sure why, but Lowndes book is one of those books that are usually discovered without it's jacket. Not sure why. Probably a problem with the paper used. Many of Person's books are found the same........"Trail of Lizzie Borden" being a good example.

But, "A Study in Conjecture" is a rare find in dust jacket. I purchased my copy without dust jacket 22 years ago at "A Taste of Honey" bookstore in Fall River for 65 dollars. Today it's a 50 to 60 dollar book..........and with dust jacket, since it doesn't come up that often, the final bid will determine.

Hemingway's first edition of "For Whom the Bell Tolls" which sells for 4 to 5 hundred dollars with the dustjacket can be found without it's wrapper for 50 bucks.

But with countless copies on the market now and over the years, the comparison is probably not worthy. Though there are very few copies of Lowndes book in existence, we must remember that there are also fewer customers.