Borden Books

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:56 pm

This is the first time that I have posted a topic. I figured that I would make it a general topic in case anyone wants to talk about other Borden Books, so there won't be so many topics.

In Robert Sullivan's Goodbye Lizzie Borden has anyone noticed how dark Abby's dress looks in the picture of her in guest bedroom? If you didn't know you would think that her dress was anything but white. Perhaps the whole picture has been darkened, that might explain it.

I was looking at Doreen Rappaport's book, Be The Judge Be The Jury, The Lizzie Borden Trial. I almost got out of my chair when I seen the two pictures side by side titled Andrew and Abby. It's a picture of Andrew alright, Andrew Jennings and his wife Bridget Sullivan. Further on in the book is a picture of Abby that is supposed to be Bridget Sullivan. Still further on is a picture of Andrew Borden that is supposed to be Andrew Jennings.

I have been getting my paper dustjackets laminated so that they stand up better, except for the ones that already have that thin plastic covering on them. I don't care for softcover books but sometimes the books you want are only available in softcover. Many books are first printed in hardcover then when they reprint them years later they reprint them in softcover. I would rather have a used book that's hardcover {that's in good shape} than a new book that's softcover.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:26 pm

Wait'll Tracy reads this!
She just got that book, possibly to give her students depending upon whether it's accepted in her system.
I have it right here. Stef bought it for me.

I haven't looked at it yet!
The cover is great, tho!

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:18 am

Yes it is a very nice cover, that is one of the things that attracted me to it. To me a book has to have that picture on the front cover to give you the feeling of what is inside. Its nice of course if there are pictures throughout the book as well relating to the chapters, so you can get a acurate image of what was happening. Sketches do fine if pictures are not available.

diana · Post by **diana** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:35 am

Well, hopefully Tracy got the same edition I have -- because the photographs in mine are OK.

The copy I have is a First Harper Trophy edition, 1993 and has the photo credits listed on the copyright page. The ones of Andrew, Abby, Bridget, and Jennings are all attributed to the Fall River Historical Society.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:39 am

The copy I have is published by HarperCollins 1992.

diana · Post by **diana** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:58 am

So if 1992 is the only copyright date on yours, it would be an earlier edition obviously. Mine also has the 1992 Harper Collins date, of course, but at the very bottom of the copyright page is the reprint information.

We probably have different cover art, too, then? Mine has a picture of Lizzie in a white dress standing in the sitting room in front of the infamous horsehair sofa.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:23 am

Hmmm. I have the First Edition with the misnamed photographs but the same cover as you describe, Diana.
Well what do you know?

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:30 am

1992 is the only copyright date in the book. It sounds like the same cover though. It almost looks as if Lizzie is grasping the side of her dress with her right hand. The sofa is blue. Mabe they reprinted it to correct the errors, that would be expensive though.

diana · Post by **diana** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:43 am

It looks as though there were at least three editions. The original, a library bound edition, and the Trophy paperback.

The picture on mine appears to be the same as yours and Kat's. It's a tad spoiled by the red and yellow banner heading "Be the Judge - Be the Jury" under a large cartoony white question mark. Not too subtle.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:54 am

I wonder if mine, with the mistakes, is worth more?
Oh well, I guess they all have mistakes...

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:56 pm

Or should we just take up a collection and send someone to shake Ms. Rappaport by the shoulders for a few minutes.

I remember groaning when I first saw those errors at the Donnell library. That's one of the few Borden books I don't even care about owning.

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:04 pm

It would seem there are excellent publishing editors and then there are those who just don't do their homework.

In "The Trial of Lizzie Borden - A radio reconstruction of a world famous murder case & three radio thrillers by Donald Henderson, Hurst & Blackett, LLD, London, the book was edited by one who dropped the ball on one thing: Edmund Pearson's name.

The first play is about the Borden case and aired Monday, July 16, 1945. As published in this book, it is 2/3rd's of the book and the content, as far as the dialog goes, is pretty accurate - right out of Pearson's book. But here's the rub: Note in the image on page 8 the footnote wherein it states, "....for the loan of their publication The Trial of Lizzie Borden, by Hesketh Pearson." Now I suppose it's possible Edmund Pearson had a nephew who wrote *another* book "The Trial of Lizzie Borden" and this nephew's name was Hesketh. But I don't think so.

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:11 pm

Whoops. That didn't turn out too well. This may be better for viewing page 8.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/b ... esketh.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/b ... ioPlay.jpg

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:33 pm

OK...I was freaking for a minute...LOL...but I have the same cover as what Kat posted...and the pictures all seemed to be labled OK. I have the HarperCollins/Trumpet Club Special Edition 1992. The credits all seem to be in order as well. I am excited about maybe being able to use this book in my classroom this fall !

Tracy...

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:54 pm

beckygoddess @ Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:04 pm wrote:In "The Trial of Lizzie Borden - A radio reconstruction of a world famous murder case & three radio thrillers by Donald Henderson, Hurst & Blackett, LLD, London, the book was edited by one who dropped the ball on one thing: Edmund Pearson's name.

Boy is it a small world! I was outbid on eBay for this very edition of this very book --check out the bid history! I know by the photo I saved of the sale. In fact, the same bidder seems to follow me around and snipes my bids at the very last minute quite a bit. My ebay name is Dylangirl. Inquiring minds want to know---are you biddercritter2?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 4530451167

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:01 pm

Sorry, no. My copy was acquired about 9 years ago at a Book Fair. But I did see this on eBay, the same one you are talking about. What did it end up selling for? I paid about $30 for this one, and thought it a bargain as I've not come across it anywhere on internet sites of booksellers.

Do you subscribe to one of the "snipe" services? They are quite good and you don't have to try to click and bid at the last moment, they do it for you once you establish a final price you will bid. It's a growing trend on auction sites and have been around for several years. Bidders that don't subcribe often can't understand why they keep getting outbid. You may want to look into it. :)

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:10 pm

I don't believe in sniping. I don't consider it a fair playing field if people who are not there bid. Seems like cheating to use a service to win an auction. Of course, lots of people use them or they wouldn't be in buiness. Plus, I don't want to pay anyone to do what I can do.

What is truly odd, is that the IMAGE of your book is exaclty the same as the image that was for sale on ebay---tears and blemishes and all. How can this be explained?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:14 pm

Tracy, I looked at my copy last night a bit and some dates as headers were wrong.
We will have to get together over this issue- and I know you know the author.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:24 pm

Yes Kat...that is a great idea ! I will look a my copy in more detail as well.

Tracy...

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:36 pm

Stefani, as I understand it sniping services are welcomed by ebay because it draws in all those customers who cannot sit in front of a computer to enter bidding at the last moment. eBay has a feature that will allow it to make repeated higher bids but it not nearly as effective or efficient as the sniping services, which only take 1% of the sales cost. So if you won at $100, the sniping service would only take $1.00 and that's a good bargain for assurance you will get the item. I think eBay, as a business, wants to keep customers and the more opportunities that keep buyers bidding, the more ebay gets *their* percentage. Frankly, I don't see it any different that the auction houses where you have call in representatives of bidders. The potential (though absent) buyer has told their representative the highest amount they will go and they just keep bidding over the phone to the auction house on behalf of that potential buyer.

If you are frustrated at this bidder you mentioned, you may want to take up my suggestion. You could at least try it once and see if it's for you or not.

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:43 pm

Well, since I seem to have proof that you are this bidder, and you keep advising me to use these services, which this bidder must be using to win the auctions in only the last few seconds (never bidding ahead of time on anything), I guess you should know the glories of sniping.

beckygoddess · Post by **beckygoddess** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:07 pm

Stefani, I am NOT that bidder. And if I WERE that bidder would it be very smart of me to tell you about the sniping service? Wouldn't that bidder want to keep that from you? If I were that bidder and told you about the sniping service wouldn't I be lessening my chance in the next bidding go round knowing that you could snipe me back? Not a very smart tactic I would think.

As to your proof, just because the jacket cover may look like the one that was on ebay does not mean it IS the same book. Why don't you write to the winner, you can get their names and addresses from ebay if you are a seller. We don't have a seller OR buyer account. When we have gotten things off ebay we have friends who bid on it for us, then if we win, we pay them their full costs. We have often found things on ebay FOR our friends, told them about it and then they bid and won and we purchased (paid them) for it and gave it to them as a gift. My husband collects rare stamps and we've done ebay through friends for certain stamps. We don't buy enough off ebay or care to, to make it worth while to become members. I don't ebay would mind. They still got their percentage.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:23 pm

Becky...you have some great friends ! They do your eBay bidding for you (by sniping...?), and print you hard copies(right ?) of THE HATCHET. Sounds like a helluva deal !

Tracy...

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:54 pm

beckygoddess @ Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:01 pm wrote:Sorry, no. My copy was acquired about 9 years ago at a Book Fair. But I did see this on eBay, the same one you are talking about.

Ok armchair detectives, part time sleuths, interested parties, and professional detectives----here is the game.

Find as many similarities as you can between the two images. The one on the left is the image from the eBay sale of this book, which sold not nine years ago, but march 5th of this year (that little symbol in the lower right corner is added to all images posted on eBay).

The image on the right is from the posting above.

You tell me, are they the same book? If not, I will eat crow for a week and send beckygoddess a note of public apology.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:12 pm

Offhand Stefani, I would suggest a nice barbequed chicken sandwich rather than crow - too many bones, very little meat, and what there is would be tough as a boot.

No pictures here - BUT - the information provided here certainly suggests that what you have there are two photos of identical books... Whatever differences there are look to be only in the way of condition of the jackets. If I had to guess, I'd say same book.
http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl ... 9429_2:1:1

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:14 pm

No ifs or buts about it, they are the same.

Look at the lower left hand corner, the nick marks are identical as well as the small tear.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:24 pm

Here are the areas which I believe illustrate Stefani's claim:

Tracy...

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:31 pm

No doubt about it... they are the same book.

Mark A. · Post by **Mark A.** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:22 am

SAME !!!

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:02 pm

They are so identical. It goes beyond a simple opinion. It is the same book.

joe · Post by **joe** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:17 pm

Abso-lotta-lutely the same!
Joe

Edisto · Post by **Edisto** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:15 pm

I was watching one of those tabloid-type news shows last night, and there was a story about people who had been scammed by grifters from other countries (mainly Nigeria). Apparently the scammers can completely disguise their Internet identities, so that the victims don't even know they're dealing with somebody in another country. Kinda scary. However, I wonder how anybody can be so gullible as to send money to a complete stranger, just because that person writes a pathetic email and claims to be "royalty." I'm probably more suspicious than I should be (almost to the point of paranoia), but those pix certainly look like the same book jacket to me!
With regard to "sniping," which I also dislike: I'm a big fan of live auctions and attend a lot of 'em. Believe me, there's no equivalent of sniping in a live auction. IMHO, subscribing to a sniping service is just plain dumb. You can do the same thing for yourself without paying anything. You simply decide in advance what your absolute top bid is and input that with eBay or the other auction site. If somebody else gets the item, whether through sniping or otherwise, you know he/she got it fair and square, because he/she paid more than you were willing to! Sniping is for folks who get auction fever.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:56 pm

Looks like poor Berky hit a klinker...

My kids went through "Faye-Zez" and told ridiculous, easy to detect lies--- When they were 3 or 4...

Honestly Berky... Get a hold of yourself....

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:05 am

Lord above...

Not only is she a unethical sniper--she didn't even pay for 2 items leaving her with negative feedback.

Of course biddercritter is from Payson Arizona, a town some commonly call NYC.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:10 am

I have seen copies of the proceedings book for sale claiming that it is a rare book. Yet the Bristol College still has some new copies for sale for less than what some people are asking for their copies second hand.

Does anyone have an idea of how I can get a Dust jacket for the Knowlton papers?

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:53 am

What do you have to do to get a "Proceedings" from BCC ?...and what is their asking price ?

Tracy...

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:20 pm

$50.00 that includes shipping. You can send them a money order. You can contact Gabriela Adler about it. I have the phone number and address somewhere but it's not handy right now.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:53 pm

Thank you for the info Fargo. Although I have a copy of Proceedings, others here may be very interested. I have seen 'asking prices', in booksearches, as high as $275...whew.

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:46 am

Was it that recent, Fargo?
I thought they were sold out?

That's good to know.
I think our copy was about $32 new, last century.

Oh the difference a century makes...

john · Post by **john** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:24 am

Chasing you.........................
is so much more fun than -
catching you,
and we seem like a slow
Sinatra song
like
wanting you...........................
is more real than
having you,
and being with you
would be so fine and nice
and really all that I would need
but not like wanting you...........................
Chasing you. ssh.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:04 am

I ordered mine about 2 monthes ago and recieved it shortly afterward, unless they have sold out since then.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:59 pm

Two months ago was not when I thought they were sold out. I thought it was more like last year. So that is good up-to-date info to have- thanks a bunch!

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:40 am

They also have back issues of the Lizzie Borden Quarterly available, as well as copies of the proceedings book.

Gabriela Adler
Bristol Community College
777 Elsbree Street
Fall River, Massachusetts 02720
Phone (508) 678-2811

The Proceedings book seems to be in the same boat as Len Rebello's book, you can buy it at a reasonable price from the source. If you go to buy it second hand it can cost way more. I seen Len Rebello's book for $150.00 second hand.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:48 am

I talked to the clerk in the bookshop there a long time ago and they said they did not have any. She said that there were some with a big orange "clearance" label on them and they were all gone. This was like two years ago, and I talked about it in an article I did for the LBQ: "In Pursuit of the Proceedings".

At that time, the FRHS was the only one that had any and they were going for the original cover price of like $32.

The B & B said they were going to "pick up some more" from BCC like the day I called, but never confirmed to me they had actually gotten them.

I looked into this subject, of trying to get a "Proceedings" book, because at the time Amazon.com was saying the book was "unavailable and out of print". Well, it was out of print, but it was still available - at least at the FRHS. Private booksellers on Amazon were asking astronomical prices for copies of the book - anywhere from like $350 to over $1,000. I was mad because fellow Bordenites were really being ripped off.

If Fargo says there are some copies at BCC, unless this is another "Faye" identity, it must be true.

How can this be? Well, the BCC could have had some copies in their storeroom or basement or something that the clerk I talked to didn't know about. Also, sometimes - sad but true - some book publishers will say they are all out of a book when they are not. They keep some put away for the day when nobody can get any anywhere else, then they can name their own price.

I'm not sure there was a dust jacket to The Knowlton Papers. I think they were just shrink wrapped.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:04 am

There is a copy of the knowlton papers on e- bay with it's dust jacket, so it did come with one, I suppose.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:02 pm

Yes, it did come with one. The cover you see on eBay is the dust jacket.

Tracy...

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:26 pm

Oh! I saw it on eBay just now. It's neat with the dust jacket. I had not seen a copy with one on it before.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:43 pm

theebmonique @ Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:53 am wrote:What do you have to do to get a "Proceedings" from BCC ?...and what is their asking price ?

THEY have many ciopiieries of the the lizzie borden quarterllygtteacy...

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:53 pm

Just to clear up some possible confusion, this was from me:

theebmonique @ Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:53 am wrote:
What do you have to do to get a "Proceedings" from BCC ?...and what is their asking price ?

...and it was kindly answered by Fargo a bit earlier in this thread.

I believe this is from Fargo ?:

THEY have many ciopiieries of the the lizzie borden quarterllygtteacy...

Tracy...

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:31 am

I just recieved a copy of "the passion of lizzie borden" by ruth whitman. Considering the title I thought that the whole book would be about lizzie, but there is only one poem about her that I found.

Mabe I should have realized that to have over 100 pages of poetry about one person might not be easily done.