Think I posted something about this quite a while back, but it keeps haunting me.
I was reviewing the Witness Statements this morning and came across Eli Bence's statement, as taken by Officers Doherty & Harrington late on August 4:
"Eli Bence. Had a lady ask for prussic acid on Wednesday morning August 3rd. When asked for what use, she said 'to put on the edge of a seal skin coat', I made no sale. She left the store in a very haughty manner. 'No, I do not know her, but think I would know her again, should I see her.' After being placed in a position where he could both see and hear Miss Lizzie Borden, he was very positive in identification, not only of her face and general appearance, but also of her voice." (Note: there's no mention of two other witnesses in the store who could identify Lizzie.)
At the Inquest, Bence describes the transaction with "Lizzie," and is then asked:
Q. "Did you then know who it was?"
A. "I knew her as a Miss Borden; I have known her for sometime as a Miss Borden, but not as Andrew J. Borden's daughter until that morning. One of the gentlemen who was sitting there, when she turned around and went out, he says 'that is Andrew J. Borden's daughter'. I looked at her a second time then more closely than when I was talking to her. I should say it was Miss Borden."
Bence then states that a woman came into the drugstore late in the day (August 4) and mentioned that Lizzie was a suspect in the murders. Bence discussed the poison incident with two other men and decided it was a "singular coincidence" that the suspect had been in the store the day before, requesting poison. He decided to report the woman's visit. Doherty and Harrington happened to stop in about 8:00 in the evening, and he accompanied them to the Borden house to identify Lizzie. Both Hart and Kilroy, the two other men who were in the drugstore and saw the woman, also testified at the inquest. One of them must have been the person who told Bence his customer was Andrew Borden's daughter, but both of them seem less confident in identifying her than Bence does.
At the Preliminary Hearing, Bence is asked if he remembers the day of the Borden tragedy, and he says he does. He's then asked if he knows the defendant, Miss Lizzie Borden.
A. "I knew her as Miss Borden before this time."
Bence then describes his encounter with "Lizzie," her asking for prussic acid and his refusal to sell it to her without a prescription. When asked who was present in the drugstore, he mentions the clerk, Hart, his visitor, Kilroy, and (apparently) another clerk who was in the back of the store.
He's unable to describe Lizzie's apparel, except to say that it was "dark" and "not blue." He has only a vague memory of other female customers that day. He is then asked:
Q. "When before that morning did you see this lady that came in there?"
A. "What, Miss Borden?"
Q. "Yes."
A. "Well, I have seen her quite a number of times. I could not tell when."
Then Bence clarifies:
A: "I had seen her on the street quite a number of times. I could not state the day or anything."
And later:
A: "I had seen the lady quite often before, and had her pointed out to me
as Miss Borden, a good many times."
Bence had seemingly gained a great deal of familiarity with Lizzie between the time he was first interviewed and the preliminary hearing. He also stated during his testimony that the knew Doherty and Harrington well.
Hmmm...interesting...
Eli Bence Again
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Edisto
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Eli Bence Again
"To lose one parent...may be regarded as misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness."
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nbcatlover
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Suppose he is telling the truth about Lizzie and the prussic acid.
Yes, we know Lizzie had her period, but suppose she actually did have fleas (the house infested from that darn beheaded cat of Abby's). Prussic acid was used as a delousing agent for clothes and chambers as a prevention against the spread of typhus from lice and fleas in the 19th century. It is liquid in an enclosed vial and becomes a gas when exposed to air. And there had been typhus outbreaks that hot summer!!! Unfortunately it also asphixiates humans in large enough doses.
Supose it is true that she couldn't get it without a prescription so she gets her friendly neighborhood doctor to write one for her. "Yoohoo, Dr. Bowen, can you help me out with my little problem?"
Suppose she never used it, but Dr. Bowen is now afraid that they were really poisoned, and the hatchet job was a cover-up. She gives him the script for the unpurchased prussic acid back, and he burns it in the stove--relieved, but with a guilty conscience.
He believed the family "poisoning" on Wednesday was from bacteria in the unpastuerized (raw) milk--most probably salmonella. But now he wonders if Lizzie had obtained poison from some other source and had wanted it for some less savory reason.
Could they have been poisoned before the hacheting? Could he be dragged into their deaths?
He is nervous and worried. He has those nagging doubts about his actions, and about hers...
Could Uncle John, the horse and cattleman from the West, have gotten her some sorghum grass which in hot, dry weather forms prussic acid. It's very toxic if eaten. A little bit of seasoning, perhaps, for that beloved mutton?
Cattle die from prussic acid poisoning when grazing on environmentally stressed sorghum in the West. Would the medical examiner find some other instrument of death that would implicate them all...
Stay tuned, folks, for another episode of My Little Murderess.
You have to love this case. There are just so many what if scenarios, so many curious people, so many blanks to fill. It's such a soap opera.
Yes, we know Lizzie had her period, but suppose she actually did have fleas (the house infested from that darn beheaded cat of Abby's). Prussic acid was used as a delousing agent for clothes and chambers as a prevention against the spread of typhus from lice and fleas in the 19th century. It is liquid in an enclosed vial and becomes a gas when exposed to air. And there had been typhus outbreaks that hot summer!!! Unfortunately it also asphixiates humans in large enough doses.
Supose it is true that she couldn't get it without a prescription so she gets her friendly neighborhood doctor to write one for her. "Yoohoo, Dr. Bowen, can you help me out with my little problem?"
Suppose she never used it, but Dr. Bowen is now afraid that they were really poisoned, and the hatchet job was a cover-up. She gives him the script for the unpurchased prussic acid back, and he burns it in the stove--relieved, but with a guilty conscience.
He believed the family "poisoning" on Wednesday was from bacteria in the unpastuerized (raw) milk--most probably salmonella. But now he wonders if Lizzie had obtained poison from some other source and had wanted it for some less savory reason.
Could they have been poisoned before the hacheting? Could he be dragged into their deaths?
He is nervous and worried. He has those nagging doubts about his actions, and about hers...
Could Uncle John, the horse and cattleman from the West, have gotten her some sorghum grass which in hot, dry weather forms prussic acid. It's very toxic if eaten. A little bit of seasoning, perhaps, for that beloved mutton?
Cattle die from prussic acid poisoning when grazing on environmentally stressed sorghum in the West. Would the medical examiner find some other instrument of death that would implicate them all...
Stay tuned, folks, for another episode of My Little Murderess.
You have to love this case. There are just so many what if scenarios, so many curious people, so many blanks to fill. It's such a soap opera.
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Kat
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Witness statement, probably taken by Harrington, probably in September:
"Dr. Bowen stopped me on the street, and was very anxious to know what Mr. Knowlton meant when be referred to having found another agent of death. He was very nervous when talking of this I told him I did not recollect of any such statement in his plea."
"Dr. Bowen stopped me on the street, and was very anxious to know what Mr. Knowlton meant when be referred to having found another agent of death. He was very nervous when talking of this I told him I did not recollect of any such statement in his plea."
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Edisto
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Assuming the scenario about Dr. Bowen's "prescription" isn't a joke, it would require Lizzie to first visit Smith's, learn that she needed a prescription and then see Dr. Bowen to get one. That means Lizzie would have been out of the house on two separate errands on Wednesday, when she was supposedly feeling unwell and resting at home until evening.
Harrington's Witness Statement pertaining to the note says, "Dr. Bowen had scraps of paper in his hand, on which there was some writing. He and I spoke about them, and he tried to put some of them together. He said, 'it is nothing, it is something about, I think, my daughter going through somewhere.' If I recollect correctly, it was addressed to Emma; but about that I am not sure. The doctor then said, 'it does not amount to anything,' and taking the lid off the kitchen stove, he dropped the pieces in."
A prescription blank is pretty recognizable, and Harrington apparently didn't identify this as such a form, even though Dr. Bowen tried to piece it together. Also, why would it be addessed to Emma? Was Emma a pharmacist? (I realize it might not have been addressed to Emma, per Harrington.) I doubt if Harrington mistook the name of the Bowens' daughter for "Emma," because, according to Rebello, Miss Bowen's name was Florence.
The point of my post (which I must have expressed poorly) was simply to illustrate that Eli Bence might have been encouraged by the police to claim he knew Lizzie Borden by sight prior to the killings. Prior knowledge of her identity might have helped to reinforce the identification he made on the night of August 4. It would be "Ah, yes, I know Miss Borden by sight, and she's definitely the woman who was in the store yesterday," versus, "This woman looks and speaks like the same woman who was in the store yesterday."
I think that note is one of the mysteries of the case. However, I doubt that it was a prescription for anything. I've always wondered why Harrington (and the others who were present) allowed Dr. Bowen to burn what might have been a piece of evidence. On the one hand, Harrington had the impression that Emma's name was on the paper, and on the other hand, Dr. Bowen seemed to be claiming that the paper belonged to him. I would have thought the paper might be about the telegram that Dr. Bowen sent to Emma, but that certainly would have nothing to do with the Bowens' daughter "going through somewhere." I suppose it's possible that Dr. Bowen was in the habit oif making notes for himself on anything available and that he used the same piece of paper to make a note about his daughter's trip and record instructions for Emma's telegram.
Harrington's Witness Statement pertaining to the note says, "Dr. Bowen had scraps of paper in his hand, on which there was some writing. He and I spoke about them, and he tried to put some of them together. He said, 'it is nothing, it is something about, I think, my daughter going through somewhere.' If I recollect correctly, it was addressed to Emma; but about that I am not sure. The doctor then said, 'it does not amount to anything,' and taking the lid off the kitchen stove, he dropped the pieces in."
A prescription blank is pretty recognizable, and Harrington apparently didn't identify this as such a form, even though Dr. Bowen tried to piece it together. Also, why would it be addessed to Emma? Was Emma a pharmacist? (I realize it might not have been addressed to Emma, per Harrington.) I doubt if Harrington mistook the name of the Bowens' daughter for "Emma," because, according to Rebello, Miss Bowen's name was Florence.
The point of my post (which I must have expressed poorly) was simply to illustrate that Eli Bence might have been encouraged by the police to claim he knew Lizzie Borden by sight prior to the killings. Prior knowledge of her identity might have helped to reinforce the identification he made on the night of August 4. It would be "Ah, yes, I know Miss Borden by sight, and she's definitely the woman who was in the store yesterday," versus, "This woman looks and speaks like the same woman who was in the store yesterday."
I think that note is one of the mysteries of the case. However, I doubt that it was a prescription for anything. I've always wondered why Harrington (and the others who were present) allowed Dr. Bowen to burn what might have been a piece of evidence. On the one hand, Harrington had the impression that Emma's name was on the paper, and on the other hand, Dr. Bowen seemed to be claiming that the paper belonged to him. I would have thought the paper might be about the telegram that Dr. Bowen sent to Emma, but that certainly would have nothing to do with the Bowens' daughter "going through somewhere." I suppose it's possible that Dr. Bowen was in the habit oif making notes for himself on anything available and that he used the same piece of paper to make a note about his daughter's trip and record instructions for Emma's telegram.
"To lose one parent...may be regarded as misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness."
-Oscar Wilde ("The Importance
of Being Earnest," 1895)
-Oscar Wilde ("The Importance
of Being Earnest," 1895)
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There is some support for the note that Dr. Bowen burned may have concerned his daughter "going through".
Mrs. Dr. Bowen testified, on cross-examination, at the Preliminary, page 480+:
"Q. (Mr. Knowlton) 10.55 you took notice of the time, five minutes of eleven; what had you been doing that you noticed the time?
A. I was looking down the street watching for my daughter to come home; she had been away, I was standing in my bay window, the window facing the north.
Q. How long had you been standing there?
A. I had been watching some few moments, as I had been expecting her to come on a train, and was watching for her to come from a horse car."
Perhaps Dr. Bowen had done for himself what he had done for Emma, checked the railroad schedules and wrote down the time of his daughter's train. Perhaps, also, she was just going to stay a short while and hence the term "going through".
Just something to consider.
Mrs. Dr. Bowen testified, on cross-examination, at the Preliminary, page 480+:
"Q. (Mr. Knowlton) 10.55 you took notice of the time, five minutes of eleven; what had you been doing that you noticed the time?
A. I was looking down the street watching for my daughter to come home; she had been away, I was standing in my bay window, the window facing the north.
Q. How long had you been standing there?
A. I had been watching some few moments, as I had been expecting her to come on a train, and was watching for her to come from a horse car."
Perhaps Dr. Bowen had done for himself what he had done for Emma, checked the railroad schedules and wrote down the time of his daughter's train. Perhaps, also, she was just going to stay a short while and hence the term "going through".
Just something to consider.
I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
And fool enough to think that's what I'll find
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nbcatlover
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Edisto--my prior post was meant as a joke.
I'm re-reading Radin and just read this section this morning. Mr. Bence recognized Lizzie's voice because it was 'tremulous'. But another man who was in the store and was a witness at the trial--Frank H. Kilroy--noted no such tremulous tones in the woman's voice. (p.186 in Dell paperback edition)
I do remember reading in one of my other Lizzie books (I don't remember which--that's why I'm re-reading material) that Eli Bence's store was not the drug store used by Lizzie's class of person (perhaps, it was Lincoln).
I do know there was an article in the 'Evening Standard' after the original poison reports regarding a patrolman's wife, who bore a strong resemblance to Lizzie, who was on a campaign against the use of poisons. Unfortunately, I cannot quickly locate the article now. It did cite the patrolman by name.
I also know that the old 'Lizzie Quarterly' once ran a photo of a woman who strongly resembled Lizzie with some other unidentified women. The purpose was to verify if it was an authentic, but unknown, photo of Lizzie or proof that she had a doppleganger in the Fall River area.
Prussic acid is a truly scary and fast-acting poison. Whalemen who tested a new harpoon using vials of prussic acid refused to continue using it because of the speed with which it killed a gigantic whale. Its history of use in German concentration camps in WWII verify its horrific potency. Lizzie would have probably killed herself if she actually obtained any.
I'm re-reading Radin and just read this section this morning. Mr. Bence recognized Lizzie's voice because it was 'tremulous'. But another man who was in the store and was a witness at the trial--Frank H. Kilroy--noted no such tremulous tones in the woman's voice. (p.186 in Dell paperback edition)
I do remember reading in one of my other Lizzie books (I don't remember which--that's why I'm re-reading material) that Eli Bence's store was not the drug store used by Lizzie's class of person (perhaps, it was Lincoln).
I do know there was an article in the 'Evening Standard' after the original poison reports regarding a patrolman's wife, who bore a strong resemblance to Lizzie, who was on a campaign against the use of poisons. Unfortunately, I cannot quickly locate the article now. It did cite the patrolman by name.
I also know that the old 'Lizzie Quarterly' once ran a photo of a woman who strongly resembled Lizzie with some other unidentified women. The purpose was to verify if it was an authentic, but unknown, photo of Lizzie or proof that she had a doppleganger in the Fall River area.
Prussic acid is a truly scary and fast-acting poison. Whalemen who tested a new harpoon using vials of prussic acid refused to continue using it because of the speed with which it killed a gigantic whale. Its history of use in German concentration camps in WWII verify its horrific potency. Lizzie would have probably killed herself if she actually obtained any.
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nbcatlover
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I found the name in 'Lizzie Borden: A Case Book of Family and Crime in the 1890s' (p. 48) regarding the story of another druggist, Hypolyte Martel.
"A woman also called at Corneau & Latourneau's drug story on Pleasant Street on the same date, but it was found out afterwards that it was the wife of Inspectory McCaffrey who was then on a crusade against the drug stores. She is said to resemble Miss Borden."
The original source is not noted on the page, but the date seems to be August 6, 1892.
"A woman also called at Corneau & Latourneau's drug story on Pleasant Street on the same date, but it was found out afterwards that it was the wife of Inspectory McCaffrey who was then on a crusade against the drug stores. She is said to resemble Miss Borden."
The original source is not noted on the page, but the date seems to be August 6, 1892.
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Kat
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Do you mean this picture?
I recall it being in the LBQ, as a thing to vote "Yea" or "Nay."
http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Resources ... tm#vol5no1
Ryckebusch, Jules and Maynard F. Bertolet. "Lizzie, Yes; Lizzie, No." Lizzie Borden Quarterly V.1 (Jan. 1998): 11.
Ryckebusch and Bertolet offer their opinions as to the authenticity of photograph, allegedly of Lizzie Borden amidst a group of young women, taken by Gay's Studio in Fall River, circa 1890.
I recall it being in the LBQ, as a thing to vote "Yea" or "Nay."
http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Resources ... tm#vol5no1
Ryckebusch, Jules and Maynard F. Bertolet. "Lizzie, Yes; Lizzie, No." Lizzie Borden Quarterly V.1 (Jan. 1998): 11.
Ryckebusch and Bertolet offer their opinions as to the authenticity of photograph, allegedly of Lizzie Borden amidst a group of young women, taken by Gay's Studio in Fall River, circa 1890.
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nbcatlover
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Kat--that's an interesting photo, but I don't think that's the one I was thinking of.
The photo I remember had the questionable Lizzie standing in a room with other unidentified women. I want to say she was dressed in more of a 'house dress" like a gingham. The face looked very much like Lizzie, but her hair seemed lighter than other photos I have seen.
The photo I remember had the questionable Lizzie standing in a room with other unidentified women. I want to say she was dressed in more of a 'house dress" like a gingham. The face looked very much like Lizzie, but her hair seemed lighter than other photos I have seen.
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Edisto
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I believe it was one of the newspapers that reported that there were many women in southern New England who resembled Lizzie. Those who post here have come up with several photos that bear a passing resemblance to her. I have one or two in my collection that I intend to post someday. I know they aren't Lizzie, but they do slightly resemble her. It seems rather odd that Lizzie claimed she had never been in Smith's Drugstore, because it was located quite near her home. However, in the old days (before drug chains), I recall that families had a special drugstore they patronized. Smith's seemingly had all male help. Possibly Lizzie preferred to deal with a female clerk. Of course, if she wanted to purchase some poison for nefarious purposes, she probably wouldn't have wanted to go to a store where she was well known anyway. In fact, it would have made more sense to buy it in New Bedford.
"To lose one parent...may be regarded as misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness."
-Oscar Wilde ("The Importance
of Being Earnest," 1895)
-Oscar Wilde ("The Importance
of Being Earnest," 1895)
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nbcatlover
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Radin (LIZZIE BORDEN: THE UNTOLD STORY) refers back to Pearson to relate the following, which he believed added to the poison myth:
"He (Pearson) has written, and apparently seriously, that when an official entered the Borden home he happened to pick up a book that contained recipes, or perhaps household hints, and the book immediately opened to a page discussing prussic acid! If anybody in the Borden house, or elsewhere, ever thought of committing murder with prussic acid and took the trouble to read about it first, he or she would change his mind fast. It is always described as one of the quickest-acting poisons known, one which can kill in twenty seconds to a minute. The least astute investigator would promptly suspect murder if he found that a person ate or drank something and then dropped dead almost immediately. Prussic acid is also known for the distinctive odor that makes it one of the few poisons which can be detected at once without an autopsy. It advertises its presence so readily that it is almost never used in actual murder"--Dell paperback edition, 1961, p. 188
If that recipe book existed, that would be almost as good as the axe in terms of desirable Lizzie collectables!!!
"He (Pearson) has written, and apparently seriously, that when an official entered the Borden home he happened to pick up a book that contained recipes, or perhaps household hints, and the book immediately opened to a page discussing prussic acid! If anybody in the Borden house, or elsewhere, ever thought of committing murder with prussic acid and took the trouble to read about it first, he or she would change his mind fast. It is always described as one of the quickest-acting poisons known, one which can kill in twenty seconds to a minute. The least astute investigator would promptly suspect murder if he found that a person ate or drank something and then dropped dead almost immediately. Prussic acid is also known for the distinctive odor that makes it one of the few poisons which can be detected at once without an autopsy. It advertises its presence so readily that it is almost never used in actual murder"--Dell paperback edition, 1961, p. 188
If that recipe book existed, that would be almost as good as the axe in terms of desirable Lizzie collectables!!!
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Kat
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If this was in the LBQ, I don't recognize the description.nbcatlover @ Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:38 am wrote:Kat--that's an interesting photo, but I don't think that's the one I was thinking of.
The photo I remember had the questionable Lizzie standing in a room with other unidentified women. I want to say she was dressed in more of a 'house dress" like a gingham. The face looked very much like Lizzie, but her hair seemed lighter than other photos I have seen.
