Bridget's fears....

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:16 am

When asked to go retrieve a sheet to cover Andrew (up backstairs) Bridget refused to go alone. Likewise she was afraid to go (up frontstairs) looking for Abby.

Why? To me this indicates she was afraid the person(s) responsible for the crimes may still be on the premises. It seems to be a matter of good sense to me.

Could this indicate that she had no foreknowledge of who the murderer was?

Later, she refused to stay in the house. Why? That house very well may have been the safest place in Fall River! They had guards posted all over the place! (Were they armed?)

Why?

The house had been searched, and although it may not have been a thorough search for a murder weapon or trace evidence—it most certainly would have flushed out a killer lurking in a corner or in a closet.

Why did she still feel unsafe in the house?

From what we can discern, Alice was with Lizzie all the day. The house had people all over it for most of the rest of that day. Was someone (JVM? Emma? Lizzie?) able to get her alone and make some sort of threat “keep quiet or you are next?” or did she see/hear something LATER in that day to convince her the danger lay inside the house?

Maybe she was just bothered to stay in the location of such a bloodbath. I do not know as though I would have wanted to stay there.

Edisto · Post by **Edisto** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:12 am

Frankly, I've always wondered why the police allowed any of the family to remain in the house. Certainly the Borden "girls" could have bunked with friends or relatives nearby, and Morse could have returned to the Davises' or perhaps spent the night with the Emery family. Bridget had several choices of lodgings too. For that matter, the entire household could have decamped to the summer place. Who in his right mind would want to spend the night in a house where two gory murders had been committed and where the ruined bodies remained? Sure enough, the police observed Lizzie in some mysterious doings in the cellar during the night, proving that she should have been dispatched elsewhere. Possibly the police thought they could observe the suspects more easily if they were all kept under one roof and if that roof was within the confines of Fall River.

I hate to sound prejudiced (and I have Irish ancestry myself), but the Irish are known for being superstitious. Bridget, who was poor, uneducated and far from home, might have believed that spirits would be roaming the house during the night and disturb her sleep. In actuality, it sounds to me as if she behaved more sensibly than the rest!

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:27 am

Bridget's behavior was contradictory in some respects.

She and Addie made two trips upstairs. The first to get a sheet and the second to look for Mrs. Borden. In both cases it was Bridget who entered the rooms by herself. Addie said she stood by the door while Bridget got the sheets and Addie never even reached the second floor landing while Bridget charged into the guest room.

I could understand her entering the Borden's bedroom as that door was locked but the guest room door was wide open.

Edisto, you make a good point about rousting the family out of the house. At the time of the Manchester murder the police had apparently learned their lesson and Mr. Manchester was barred from the house and had to sleep in the barn.

Another poor example of allowing the family to stay in the house was the Ramsey case. Wasn't it Mr. Ramsey who discovered Jon Benet's body while the police were still there?

Edisto · Post by **Edisto** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:01 pm

Yes, the policewoman who was in charge of the Ramsey premises apparently sent John Ramsey and his friend to search the basement (which had supposedly been searched before) as a sort of make-work project to get them out of her hair. That was when Ramsey found the body, already in full rigor, and carried it upstairs "like an ironing board" according to one account. It was placed on the carpet beside the Christmas tree, and Mrs. Ramsey was allowed to throw herself onto the remains, mingling fibers and other evidence. I always think of that case when I'm considering how badly the Fall River police handled the Borden crime scene. In all this time, police apparently haven't learned much. The only excuse the Boulder police were able to give was that they thought at the time that they were dealing with a kidnapping, not a murder. Don't kidnappers leave evidence?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:08 pm

I was just reading an account, in a newspaper, of what was done with Bridget after the murders and she had to have a bond posted for her to keep her nearby, and it claimed she was "superstitious" about staying on in the house.

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:39 pm

Audrey, on the most basic level, it would appear to me to work in this way: Lizzie, either guilty herself or knowing who the murderer(s) was(were) had no fear about remaining alone in the house while Bridget was sent to and fro. Bridget, totally innocent, was afraid to go anywhere in the house after the murders without someone with her, for fear of meeting up with "the turrible man."

However, to add Bridget to the crime as Lizzie's accomplice, or at least an accessory, you'll have to suppose Bridget gave a great performance upon being asked to head up the front stairs.

Or could it be, in the matter of the guest room, co-conspirator Bridget was not happy about being the designated corpse-finder, and protested by at first refusing to go? Maybe Lizzie even had lied to her, saying that she herself would "discover" Abby, and then sprang the change of plans on the hapless maid in the parlor in front of Alice and Addie. Lord knows, I'd be peeved if I was being told to undertake such a...grim undertaking!

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:44 pm

I agree, Bridget probably was superstitious.

I do not think she was acting when she was afraid to go to various parts of the house....

Could she have been protecting Lizzie out of loyalty? Fear? I believe she was genuinly fond of Abby.

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:59 am

I just got back tonight from vacationing back east. I did my first tour of the house on Second Street and I remember my guide saying that the bodies were still in the house. I think they were kept in the dinning room. I know that I would not be able to stay in a house with two dead bodies. Especially, since they had been brutally murdered. Little too creepy for me.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:35 am

HI!
~~~~
I found the news item to which I referred. It quotes Charles J. Holmes as to Lizzie's "Future Plans", The Daily Globe, June 26, 1893.
He says he doesn't expect Lizzie to appear in church right away- or at any public gathering, for weeks. "She is a woman of fine feelings and she does not wish to intrude in public under the present circumstaces."

"Mr. Holmes was asked several questions about Lizzie Borden and her plans.
'Is it true, that story about a contemplated European trip?'
'No,sir.'
'Will Lizzie and Emma continue to live in Fall River?'
'They expect to do so, living in a quiet, unobtrusive way and trying to win the respect of everybody in the city.'
'Will they stay in the old home on Second street?'
'No! In fact, after the murder and before Lizzie's arrest the sisters were looking for another house; they are looking for one now.'
'How about the truth of the story to the effect that Bridget Sullivan will return to work for the Borden sisters?'
'The story is not true. Bridget Sullivan and the Borden sisters have had no communication with each other since the trial. Furthermore, Bridget is superstitious enough not to be willing to return to a house where murder has been committed. Why, she wouldn't stay there last August; was kept there by the police a day or two I believe, and then departed for good.'
'Who is with Lizzie now?'
'No one except her sister and the housekeeper. A man goes to the house to do the chores.' "

--There's a bit more about the Rev. Mr. Jubb's sermon on the day everyone expected Lizzie to come to church- which she missed.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:01 am

I have always wondered why anyone would stay in a house where two brutal murders had taken place.

Didn't Uncle John sleep in the guest room, the night of the murders, where Abby was killed? Can you imagine the smell... after a hot humid day and blood still in the carpet on the floor? And how about the smell in the dining room after a hot humid day and two dead bodies covered in blood? The smell alone would do it for me.

I think Bridget had very good reasons to fear staying in the house.... I think she figured out or knew who the killer was, and that person was still in the house.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:20 am

Thanks for the interesting news article, Kat. I have to wonder about that line:

'They expect to do so, living in a quiet, unobtrusive way and trying to win the respect of everybody in the city.'

That is really curious, Lizzie was tried and acquitted and Emma was not even there during the crime, why would they need to win the respect of everyone? Lizzie being so involved in the scandal, I can see her needing to curry favor with people, but Emma? Odd.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:06 am

Maybe it's a turn-of-phrase?
Emma was on more display than Lizzie, if I think about it. Lizzie was shut up in jail, but Emma still had to go about, and travel to Taunton to visit her. That left her open to scandal too, wouldn't it?

Twinsrwe, I think that Morse moved to his little attic room Thursday night. It is in testimony (Fleet?) that mentions that Morse stayed in that room since the murder.

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:28 am

Notwithstanding the fact that the old folks were murdered, it was common to have the dead in the home longer in those days, no? There is something amazing about Uncle John sleeping in the guest room again that night, as if nothing much had happened there that afternoon.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:50 am

I have always thought it odd they remained in the house...

In France, we had funerals/wakes at home. Seldom did anyone use a chapel or "funeral parlor". We have a masouleum in Pere Lachaise in which space is at a premium! We can not purchase more land there-- so we have taken to cremation in order to fit everyone in! Due to this we have had only ashes to sit in the salon and not a casket..... (Merci Dieu)

There is no way I would ever spend even one night in my home if people were brutally murdered there--especially if I had the resources to move or a place to go.

I have become sufficiently Americanized that I do not think I would even be comfortable having bodies laid out in the living room while I sat about upstairs..... But it was a custom of the day. I would be interested to know if other families had a similar arrangement (in those times) when a murder had occured in the house?

I also wonder if the townsfolk thought it odd they remained in the house?

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:33 pm

Well, nothing like this had ever happened in Fall River before, had it? I have the feeling the police were making it up as they went along!

Ah, Pere Lachaise! What a place!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:41 pm

Not many have read the Preliminary Hearing- so this is the citation for the fact that Morse slept in the attic after the murders, probably from Thursday night on:

Prelim
Fleet
360
A. We searched that room, and the room adjoining, there was a safe in that, but we did not find anything; nothing but the bed, that is all; we found no kind of an instrument that the persons could have been killed by. Then we went up stairs and searched the four attics, I think it was four. Bridget had the keys. We went into each one as she unlocked them, and turned over things, and put them back in their proper places, and found nothing there that we wanted. We searched Bridget's bed, and searched also a bed where John Morse had slept since, and I think had before.
Q. That is in the attic?
A. That was in the attic. That is all I can state just now.

--This was Thursday's search Fleet is referring to, and the "since" probably shows his knowledge after that day.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:43 pm

Saturday Search

Trial
Hilliard
1138

Q. You took charge of the police? Now go ahead: tell me what you know about it?
A. We went from the kitchen, went up two flights of stairs into the attic---what I call the attic of the building. I first went into a room which would be on the north---what I term the north and east room in the attic. I searched that thoroughly,---the bed and the clothing

Page 1139

that was there. Mr. Fleet---

Q. Whose room was that, if you know?
A. All I know is what I was told, that Mr. Morse was occupying that room at that time.

Q. It was not Miss Bridget's room, then?
A. No, sir, not as I understood.

Q. Very well: we will except that.
A. Mr. Fleet and Mr. Desmond was in what was Miss Bridget's room, searching, and I went in there after I got through this other room. We searched that room all through, the bed and the clothing that was there. ....etc.

diana · Post by **diana** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:25 pm

Thanks for that, Kat! I tried to find those references but was unsuccessful -- I had the impression that Morse slept in the attic after the murders -- but couldn't remember why I thought that.

In Bridget's testimony at trial -- she indicates that when Morse came to visit he sometimes slept in the attic and other times in the guest room. I wonder what dictated the room he slept in on August 3?

Perhaps, if he was going to be there longer than one night, he would bunk down in the attic so as not to be in the way of the household because they used the guest room for other purposes such as entertaining, sewing, etc.

DWilly · Post by **DWilly** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:48 pm

I wonder what dictated the room he slept in on August 3?

Perhaps, if he was going to be there longer than one night, he would bunk down in the attic so as not to be in the way of the household because they used the guest room for other purposes such as entertaining, sewing, etc.

When I took the tour of the house my guide talked about that. She thought it had to do with Bridget now being in the attic. In his prior visits she wasn't there but now she. He may have felt uncomfortable having a single woman sleeping so close by. I wonder where the first Maggie slept?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:52 pm

I think Morse did stay overnight since Bridget had been there. Emma seems to not know why or under what conditions Morse would sleep in the attic room. She is kind of full of *Just as it happened.*
I think she was asked if the girl's sewing had anything to do with it and yes it did, to a degree.

DWilly, maybe you can check testimony, like Morse and Emma, and decide for yourself and let us know if Morse did stay in the attic in the last 2 to 3 years?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:55 pm

BTW: Diana, I think Harry had found that bit of testimony about "since" a while ago. That's what I was searching, actually, the word "since."

I lucked out on the trial testimony tho.