a question about andrews boots

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snokkums
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a question about andrews boots

Post by snokkums »

I was reading an article about the murders and had a question. In the article, it states that Andrew "reclines on the mohair-covered sofa, his boots on the floor as not to soil the uplostry." In a pixI saw he had them on
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Angel
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Post by Angel »

After reading Masterton, I started thinking about the discrepancy in the info Lizzie gave, vs. what the pictures of Andrew showed. She said he put on his slippers before he sat down on the sofa. The pictures show him wearing his boots. If he got up to greet someone at the door (or in the sitting room, if Abby let the person in) he may have put his shoes back on first (if women had to change their dresses to look more proper for one occasion to the next, maybe it followed that men like Andrew wouldn't think of answering the door in his slippers.) before he received someone into his home. If the meeting went bad and the person picked up the hatchet near the fireplace and whacked Andrew while he was sitting there, maybe that would explain the slipper thing. According to Masterton, then Abby was next, to get her out of the way. I agree with that part of his theory- that it isn't clear who got whacked first, because sometimes a murdered body will not have a normal clotting reaction. It would make sense from Masterton's theory that Abby was gotten out of the way because she would know who would have been let into the house.
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Post by Kashesan »

I think they meant that he did not rest his shod feet anywhere on the sofa (not that they would fit) that he lay on the sofa with his shoes still on, but resting on the floor-a rather uncomfortable position to take a nap in.
I personally think that Andrew was sitting upright when he was stricken, and then slumped over to the side.
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Post by augusta »

Snokkums - I'm not sure I understand your question. Did the article lead you to believe that the murderer placed his feet on the floor so they wouldn't soil the upholstery? The part where his head was was just dripping all over. The sofa was redone afterwards.

Lizzie said she gave him his slippers and he was wearing those. But those are definitely his Congress boots in the photo of him slain. We talked about that a long time ago, and someone said that perhaps that was how Lizzie always treated her father and, under the influence of the morphine, looking back to that morning she pictured herself doing it as she had done other times. Would she have a reason to lie about that?

I question whether he was asleep or if he was sitting up in the middle of the sofa when he was butchered. It always looked like an unnatural position to be in for a nap, tho someone had posted before that one of their relatives used to nap like that. I don't think he had time to get to sleep, tho. Maybe his eyes were closed and he was getting there. Maybe he heard the killer as he lay there and didn't move to see who it was, thinking it someone of the household. He had no reason to fear harm laying there.

Angel - Well, during the OJ trial, they said that they are not able to tell the exact time of death even today. So I guess it's possible that Andrew could have gone first.

I think that Abby got it first, based on when anyone last saw her and the congealed blood, and the temperature of the bodies. Andrew was still dripping and not beginning to clot. He was still warm to the touch. Abby's blood was congealed and darker. Her body temperature may not have been as cool as it would have had she been thinner, and had she not been upstairs in that hot room.
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Post by Kat »

Good memory for that napping position, Augusta!
That was Len Rebello telling me he always saw his grandfather taking a nap on the sofa like that. It seemed very normal to him.

I can't think of another explanation for Lizzie mentioning slippers and Andrew being found with shoes on other than those shoes might be considered house shoes - or slippers- as they were elastic-sided. That is an opinion of a few members in the past. Other than that- it just might be as theorized- that Lizzie was thinking of another day she had done that- given him slippers. But Hiram Harrington doesn't think Lizzie was capable of such solicitude toward Andrew, so it's still a mysetery.
A bigger mystery, or compounding this one- is that Philip Harrington thought Andrew had tie shoes on, and didn't believe the photo!
So there is a lot of controversy about Andrew's shoes!

Trial
Harrington
558
Q. Yes. And you discovered Mr. Borden's body there?
A. Yes, sir; on a sofa which rested on the north side of the house was the form of a man partially covered with a sheet, going from the head, the west end of the lounge, down a little below the knees. Below that black pants and a pair of laced shoes.

At the trial (646), Mr. Pettee testified that:
"Well, I noticed the position that he laid in. He was lying on his right side, with the left side exposed. His feet was crossed, and one of them rested on the floor. I noticed the condition of his head,---the condition of the blood that came from it.
............

We had a long thread once called "His Feet Was Crossed."
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Post by Haulover »

i compiled an extensive list of witness reactions to the condition of the two bodies, particularly in regard to the blood, but i haven't found it yet. it's in here somewhere.
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Post by Edisto »

The elastic-sided boots that Andrew was wearing are called "Congress gaiters" or "Congress shoes." A similar style is available even today. I think their chief characteristic is that they are easy to slip on and off and thus suitable for an older person who can't bend over easily. I have seen house shoes that are similarly designed, but the uppers are usually made of softer material, and the soles are softer. Andrew's boots look well-worn but still seem to have a fairly high shine on them. That leads me to believe they are his street shoes.

What's the source for the information that a hatchet was kept beside the sitting-room fireplace? I don't recall reading that. People don't usually chop wood in their living quarters -- too messy.
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Post by snokkums »

Augusta,

I understand the article to state that he took the boots off his feet so that he wouldn't ruin the uplostry. It's just that I saw that picture and rember reading something that he had them off, I was wandering what the discrepancy was.

Sorry for the confusion.
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Post by theebmonique »

Snok,

Is there a chance you could post a link to the article ? Or, let us know where we could find it ? I'd be interesting in reading it.


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Post by twinsrwe »

My father took a 20 minute nap every day after lunch; he often napped in the very same "uncomfortable" position Andrew was found in. I know from my own personal experience that after a 20 minute nap, I wake up feeling very refreshed.
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