50 years ago this month...

[twinsrwe]

In November of 1957, police in Plainfield, Wisconsin arrived at the dilapidated farmhouse of Ed Gein, who was a suspect in the robbery of a local hardware store and disappearance of the owner, Bernice Worden. Ed had been the last customer at the hardware store. Police found Bernice Worden hanging from the rafters in a shed behind Ed Gein's house. Her body had been gutted like that of a deer; her head had been removed.

Here are a few interesting web sites:

http://www.isthmus.com/isthmus/article. ... icle=15391

http://www.nndb.com/people/216/000084961/

http://crime.about.com/od/murder/p/gein.htm

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_kill ... ill_1.html

http://www.prairieghosts.com/ed_gein.html

[doug65oh]

Eddie Gein... Wasn't he at least a partial "seed" for the "Buffalo Bill" serial killer in The Silence of the Lambs? Seems I heard that... but even if not, Eddie'd sure fit I think. Yeeeeaaaaaggggghhhh :lol:

[twinsrwe]

You're absolutely right, Doug.

Ed Gein was not only the inspiration for the character of Buffalo Bill in The Silence of the Lambs, he was also the inspiration for the characters of Norman Bates in Alfred Hitchcock's classic thriller Psycho, and LEATHERFACE in the 1974 classic thriller by Tobe Hooper, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Of course, the real story of Ed Gein is much more gruesome than anything you'll find in these films!!! Take a look at some of the links I provided above.

[doug65oh]

Oh, I'm familiar with his exploits already - but thanks!:lol: A few years back, I saw a brief clip from an interview with someone who'd known him right around the span of the murders, within three to five years.

The person said something like Well, most everybody that knew Eddie Gein in those days thought he was a little crazy, but it was the harmless sort of crazy we thought of - Until the day they found Mrs. Worden skinned and dressed out like a deer.

I've forgotten the person's name, but he would have been about thirteen years old at the time, and by the way he spoke, gave the impression at least that he was present when the remains were found, or got the story from his father, who was present when the remains were found.

[1bigsteve]

Oh Judy, you would have to ruin my lunch.

Yes Ed Gein was a major sick-o. I read about his exploits years ago but couldn't finish the story. I can't imagine a person doing something like that to another person. It goes beyond sick!

Suddenly Lizzie looks like a Saint.

-1bigsteve (o:

[doug65oh]

In some of those old pictures (clad in flannel shirt and that cap) Ed Gein looks a little like Elmer Fudd...from hell. Doesn't he??

[Yooper]

One of the mysteries in the Ed Gein case was the packages of "venison" he used to give away. This is common practice in rural communities, a single man might offer a family some surplus venison he couldn't use himself. The trouble was, during the trial Ed Gein said he didn't hunt deer!

[1bigsteve]

One of the mysteries in the Ed Gein case was the packages of "venison" he used to give away. This is common practice in rural communities, a single man might offer a family some surplus venison he couldn't use himself. The trouble was, during the trial Ed Gein said he didn't hunt deer!

Doug, Ed sure does look like an "Elmer Fudd" from Hellsville!

The "venison" reminds me of that movie, "Road Games" when Stacey Keatch is counting those "animal" carcasses in his truck and realizes that he has two too many and he wonders if they are really animal!

That is one good movie!

-1bigsteve 0o8=

[twinsrwe]

... The person said something like Well, most everybody that knew Eddie Gein in those days thought he was a little crazy, but it was the harmless sort of crazy we thought of - Until the day they found Mrs. Worden skinned and dressed out like a deer. ...

I have always heard that many of the residents of Plainfield, WI thought Ed was a little odd; they saw him as a mild-mannered bachelor, who was a lonely eccentric and a shy recluse.

It is said that the staff at the Mendota Mental Health Institute in Madison, WI had always considered Ed Gein to be a model prisoner - gentle, polite and discreet. (Click on image to enlarge).

He died at the Mendota Mental Health Institute, in the geriatric ward, of respiratory and heart failure in 1984 at the age of seventy-seven.

[twinsrwe]

Oh Judy, you would have to ruin my lunch. ...

Sorry, Steve, I didn't mean too.

... Yes Ed Gein was a major sick-o. I read about his exploits years ago but couldn't finish the story. I can't imagine a person doing something like that to another person. It goes beyond sick! ...

I know what you mean. As I said in one of my previous post, the real life story of Ed Gein is much more gruesome than anything you'll find in any of the films he inspired.

... Suddenly Lizzie looks like a Saint.

She sure does, doesn't she? :shaking2:

[twinsrwe]

In some of those old pictures (clad in flannel shirt and that cap) Ed Gein looks a little like Elmer Fudd...from hell. Doesn't he??

You mean sort of like in this picture??? (Click on image to enlarge).

BTW: Ed never went outside without wearing his magical cap - or so I've heard...

[twinsrwe]

One of the mysteries in the Ed Gein case was the packages of "venison" he used to give away. This is common practice in rural communities, a single man might offer a family some surplus venison he couldn't use himself. The trouble was, during the trial Ed Gein said he didn't hunt deer!

I was just going to post this very same piece of information, Jeff. YUCK!!! That's pretty gross, if you ask me!!! Can you imagine how those neighbors must have felt knowing they may have eaten the meat of a human being instead of venison? How repulsive - no wonder the people of Plainfield do not mention his name.

[doug65oh]

Uh huh, that's the picture alright: Eddie "Kiww the Bambi" Gein.

I'm almost tempted to suggest a caption for the closeup there of the "magic cap" photo: Behold - the power of cheese!

[twinsrwe]

Uh huh, that's the picture alright: Eddie "Kiww the Bambi" Gein.

I'm almost tempted to suggest a caption for the closeup there of the "magic cap" photo: Behold - the power of cheese!

That's a good one, Doug! I LIKE it.

[Kat]

The first book on Ed Gein that my sister and I saw in the bookstore so long ago, had the photo of the first dead body I'd ever seen published before. I'll always remember it.
(It was the gutted carcass of the grocer lady.)

[doug65oh]

you mean Bernice Worden? According to the CrimeLibrary piece I looked at a bit ago, she was the mother of one of the local deputies there. The sheriff had to break the news to the feller that they'd found his mother.

The first dead body I ever saw that I recollect was a mortuary photograph of Mrs. Marilyn Sheppard, from the book Dr. Sam.
It was a larger view I think of this one here at
http://www.cnn.com/US/9803/05/sheppard. ... .large.jpg

[Yooper]

Maybe he just had deer hunting confused with dear hunting?

[twinsrwe]

The first book on Ed Gein that my sister and I saw in the bookstore so long ago, had the photo of the first dead body I'd ever seen published before. I'll always remember it.
(It was the gutted carcass of the grocer lady.)

Kat, is the book you are referring to by Judge Robert H. Gollmar, titled Edward Gein: America's Most Bizarre Murderer (Hardcover - 1982)? This is the first book I saw with graphic pictures of Ed Gein's 'handiwork'.

[twinsrwe]

you mean Bernice Worden? According to the CrimeLibrary piece I looked at a bit ago, she was the mother of one of the local deputies there. The sheriff had to break the news to the feller that they'd found his mother.

You're right, Doug, Bernice Worden's son was Deputy Sheriff Frank Worden. Can you imagine being in Frank Worden's shoes when he was told his mother has been found and the condition in which she was found in?

[twinsrwe]

Maybe he just had deer hunting confused with dear hunting?

Good one, Jeff. Eddie seems to have been confused about a lot of things.

[twinsrwe]

The best book I have ever read on Ed Gein is by Harold Schechter, titled, Deviant: The Shocking True Story of Ed Gein, the Original Psycho. Of all the books written about Ed Gein, this one is, by far, the most well-researched, fact filled one on the case as well as his personal life. Judge Gollmar's book is also very good, but Schechter's book draws you in and holds your interest to the very end. Schechter's book, is so well written, it gives you the feeling that you are actually there, in Plainfield, WI., investigating this case and the life of Ed Gein.

[doug65oh]

Authorities were never able as I understand it to link Eddie to Henry Gein's death, although circumstances were at least questionable. Henry was Eddie's older brother, who had so the story goes expressed some concern over Eddie's relationship with Augusta Gein, their mother. Henry died at the age of 43, the apparent casualty of a brush fire on the Gein farm.

[Yooper]

He was suspected of his brother's death in addition to others. My recollection is a bit rusty, but I think he was suspected of the murder of a girl or young woman near either La Crosse or Eau Claire Wisconsin, he had a car matching the description of the murderer's vehicle. It was a car he rarely used, no one was aware he owned it. I think he was also suspected in the disappearance of two hunters somewhere on or near his farm.

[twinsrwe]

Authorities were never able as I understand it to link Eddie to Henry Gein's death, although circumstances were at least questionable. Henry was Eddie's older brother, who had so the story goes expressed some concern over Eddie's relationship with Augusta Gein, their mother. Henry died at the age of 43, the apparent casualty of a brush fire on the Gein farm.

It is also my understand that Ed was not linked to Henry's death, although the circumstances were suspicious. I have always heard that by the time their father, George, died in 1940, Henry had begun to reject Augusta's view of the world as well as Ed's relationship with their mother, and started to bad-mouth and openly criticized her, not caring if Ed would overhear him or not. In March 1944, the brothers were in the middle of a brush fire when Henry died. Ed went to the police, and he told them he had lost sight of Henry, yet he then led them directly to his brother's corpse. Apparently, Henry did show evidence of having some blunt trauma to his head, however, the local county coroner decided he died of asphyxiation while fighting the fire.

Ed and Henry had little or no contact with the outside world, and although Ed was crushed under the expectations of his mother, he obeyed her and idolized her; he saw his mother as the epitome of purity and goodness.

I read somewhere that Ed was Augusta's favorite, and she would allow him to sleep in her bed.

[doug65oh]

The part that confused me was the trial verdict. If I understood correctly, when Ed Gein was tried - eleven years later - they found him guilty of murder in the first, but also not guilty by reason of insanity because at the time the crimes were committed, he was judged to have been insane? There's got to be (or was then at any rate) something in the Wisconsin statutes I'd think. The two different findings don't make much sense...at least not to me.

[Kat]

The first book on Ed Gein that my sister and I saw in the bookstore so long ago, had the photo of the first dead body I'd ever seen published before. I'll always remember it.
(It was the gutted carcass of the grocer lady.)

Kat, is the book you are referring to by Judge Robert H. Gollmar, titled Edward Gein: America's Most Bizarre Murderer (Hardcover - 1982)? This is the first book I saw with graphic pictures of Ed Gein's 'handiwork'.

It may well be that book. At the time, I did not buy it- just gasped at the pictures. It was a first!

[doug65oh]

Whoops...overlooked one there. No, I can't even to begin to imagine how Deputy Worden took the news! Sheriff Schley tho (if the information I read earlier this evening is correct) took up Frank Worden's part as it were: After Eddie Gein confessed, the sheriff (so the story goes) whipped the daylights out of him, bashing his head against a wall several times. Of course that sent Gein's confession out the window, but...I can definitely understand the reaction, mainly because Schley had seen Bernice Worden's body for himself.

Now that I think of it, that's a part of the story that sounds like a fabrication. I didn't take note of the source at the time, and knowing how trustworthy some sources aren't...

[Richard]

Werner Herzog, the German Film director, made his movie STROSZEK in the town where Ed Gein has lived (Plainfield, Wisconsin) and used local people who had never acted before, some of whom had known Gein.

He had fully intended to film the Ed Gein story and went to Plainfield to research, and when the Ed Gein concept fell through, decided to base a new screenplay around the town because he felt it was very American in a surreal way. He said he wanted to show, through the story of a mentally ill German immigrant relocating to Plainfield, Wisconsin, just how strange America really was.

There was a movie called ED GEIN with Steven Railsback (the actor who played Charles Manson in Helter Skelter). It was pretty damned good. Not particular cinematic but told the essential story and had some excellent acting. There is a bizarre and disturbing scene in the film where Ed is dancing around naked outside in his corpse mask. After watching the film I had some trouble sleeping because of that one

The tag line for the film poster was:

Before DAHMER, Before GACY, There was ED.

[Richard]

Posted three times by accident.

[Richard]

Posted three times by accident. Don't know how to delete a post.

[twinsrwe]

He was suspected of his brother's death in addition to others. My recollection is a bit rusty, but I think he was suspected of the murder of a girl or young woman near either La Crosse or Eau Claire Wisconsin, he had a car matching the description of the murderer's vehicle. It was a car he rarely used, no one was aware he owned it. I think he was also suspected in the disappearance of two hunters somewhere on or near his farm.

Your recollection isn't so rusty, Jeff; he was suspected of several other murders, however, it was never proven that he actually did these killings. As you know, Bernice Worden's murder was the only one he stood trail for.

[twinsrwe]

The part that confused me was the trial verdict. If I understood correctly, when Ed Gein was tried - eleven years later - they found him guilty of murder in the first, but also not guilty by reason of insanity because at the time the crimes were committed, he was judged to have been insane? There's got to be (or was then at any rate) something in the Wisconsin statutes I'd think. The two different findings don't make much sense...at least not to me.

Ed Gein waived his right to a trial by jury, allowing Judge Gollmar to decide his fate. The court proceedings were held in two parts: The first to determine his guilt, which, Judge Gollmar did find him guilty of first-degree murder. In the second part of the trial, Ed was found to have been insane at the time of the killing, therefore Judge Gollmar found him not guilty by reason of insanity, acquitted him, and sent him back to the Central State Hospital for the Criminally Insane in Waupun, WI.

http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... ate=pdaart

[twinsrwe]

... It may well be that book. At the time, I did not buy it- just gasped at the pictures. It was a first!

I know that when Judge Gollmar's book came out - these pictures were unthinkable. However, those pictures are now on the internet, as you will find in the following link.

WARNING: Do not go into this link, unless you are prepared to see some very graphic pictures - If you do decide to go in, the pictures are at the very bottom of this link - click on the pictures to enlarge and get a complete view of each picture:

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Pa ... truth.html

[twinsrwe]

Whoops...overlooked one there. No, I can't even to begin to imagine how Deputy Worden took the news! Sheriff Schley tho (if the information I read earlier this evening is correct) took up Frank Worden's part as it were: After Eddie Gein confessed, the sheriff (so the story goes) whipped the daylights out of him, bashing his head against a wall several times. Of course that sent Gein's confession out the window, but...I can definitely understand the reaction, mainly because Schley had seen Bernice Worden's body for himself.

Now that I think of it, that's a part of the story that sounds like a fabrication. I didn't take note of the source at the time, and knowing how trustworthy some sources aren't...

The following is taken from: http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... ate=pdaart

Authorities took Gein to jail the evening of Nov. 16, 1957, and interrogated him in the presence of three deputies, according to court documents. He didn’t have an attorney, and since it was before the time of Miranda rights, he hadn’t been told he had the right to one.

In the early morning hours of Nov. 17,Sheriff Art Schley, a former highway department worker who had taken office six weeks prior to Worden’s murder, returned to the jail and asked the deputies whether Gein had confessed. When he was told no, according to court documents, Schley grabbed Gein and threw him against a wall. The interrogation became so violent that three deputies had to intervene.

At 4:30 a.m. Nov. 17, Joseph C. Wilimavsky Jr., a lie detector expert from the state crime laboratory in Madison, took his turn questioning Gein, who was interrogated intermittently from 4:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. Gein was taken Nov. 19 to Madison where the questioning continued, all without an attorney.

The Wilimavsky interviews of Gein produced a confession that is more than 200 pages long. In 1968, Circuit Court Judge Robert H. Gollmar, presiding over Gein’s murder trial, threw out the confession because of Gein’s mental state — he was diagnosed with chronic schizophrenia — and the manner in which it was obtained.

Sheriff Schley was the one who found Bernice Worden's body - the following is taken from this link: http://www.newcriminologist.com/article ... 107&nid=22

... Art Schley felt something bump against his shoulder. The sudden contact startled him and he whirled round. There in the jittery glare of his flashlight was something a lot worse than expected. Suspended from the rafters of Ed Gein’s kitchen extension like a twisted marionette, was what at first glance appeared to be a huge slab of meat with arms and legs; the decapitated body of a woman in her mid-to-late fifties. Bernice Worden.
...
In the decade since the discoveries at the Gein farm, Sheriff Art Schley had become haunted by the case, under incredible pressure over the years, due as much to the incessant attentions of the national media as the nightmarish events he had had to deal with. In the end it became too much for him. He died from a massive heart attack in December 1968, only a month after testifying at Gein’s trial. He was forty-three.

I can certainly understand Sheriff Schley's reaction upon finding out, at that point in time, that Ed had not confessed to anything. However, violence is never the answer to anything.

[twinsrwe]

...The tag line for the film poster was:

Before DAHMER, Before GACY, There was ED.

I remember that tag line! Gives one the willies, doesn't it?

[doug65oh]

That's fascinating. It sounds almost as if (were the same thing to happen today) the verdict might well have been "Guilty, but insane" - depending of course on how the statutes are written.

[doug65oh]

Well, no, I wouldn't advocate that either. The reason I - the source I'd looked at the other evening said that the beating took place in response to Gein's confession, not as a means to obtain it. If Gein's confession was as lengthy and detailed as is suggested, the post-confession beating makes more sense. There's no excuse for it, but only some degree of understanding.

[twinsrwe]

That's fascinating. It sounds almost as if (were the same thing to happen today) the verdict might well have been "Guilty, but insane" - depending of course on how the statutes are written.

Well, I don't know anything about the Wisconsin statutes, but it appears as though a person has to be guilty and sane in order to be convicted and imprisoned for murder. The reason I think the above statement may be true is that as far as I know, Jeffery Dahmer, a serial killer from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity - however, the court found him sane and guilty on 15 counts of murder and sentenced him to 15 life terms in prison.

[twinsrwe]

Well, no, I wouldn't advocate that either. The reason I - the source I'd looked at the other evening said that the beating took place in response to Gein's confession, not as a means to obtain it. If Gein's confession was as lengthy and detailed as is suggested, the post-confession beating makes more sense. There's no excuse for it, but only some degree of understanding.

Hmmm, it is my interpretation that Sheriff Schley lost his cool with Ed after the three deputies interrogated him and failed to obtain a confession, but before he was taken to the state crime laboratory in Madison, WI. for questioning by Wilimavsky who interrogated Ed intermittently for 14 hours which resulted in the more than 200 page confession.

The following piece of information can be found in this link: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_kill ... ons_5.html
Eddie showed no signs of remorse or emotion during the many hours of interrogation. When he talked about the murders and of his grave robbing escapades he spoke very matter-of-factly, even cheerfully at times. He had no concept of the enormity of his crimes.

Judge Gollmar really didn't have a choice but to throw this confession out due to Ed's mental state, the manner in which the confession was obtained, and the fact that the confession was obtained without an attorney presence.

[twinsrwe]

... Gein was charged only with the first-degree murder of Bernice Worden. The verdict was to be followed immediately by a determination of whether or not Gein was sane at the time of the murder.

Gein was found guilty, then not guilty by reason of insanity and returned immediately to Central State Hospital. In 1974 he applied to be released, but was denied. Had he been imprisoned for murder, he would have been eligible for parole by the late seventies, but he instead remained confined for the rest of his life. He was eventually moved to the low security Mendota Mental Health Hospital at the age of 72 (before such institutions were legislated out of existence during the Regan era.) ... (source: http://www.midnightgraffiti.net/edgein4.html)

Granted Ed Gein was not convicted and given a prison sentence, however, he did live out the rest of his life in a mental health institute for the criminally insane. Ed was not a free man, and it seems to me that Judge Gollmar's verdict was best for all concerned.